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Why Edelgard von Hresvelg is the most hated girl?


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2 minutes ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

There is no solid basis for claiming that Edelgard is racist, speciesist, xenophoba, or ethnocentric. You have to pay close attention to her dialogues. He is a person with a very liberal thought.

Pretty much, I would actually say that when it comes to policy that Edelgard is actually very similar to Claude, the disagreement comes down to methods, as Claude thinks Edelgard's way of achieving her goals is to extreme.

I think it is ultimately Edelgard's dislike of traditions keeping people down that makes her quite liberal in comparison to most of the feudal world she inhabits. What she and Claude having common is that are both willing to question the system, Dimitri is far more conservative in comparison to the other two as he is all about preserving traditions he think people need to survive. Edelgard is all about breaking traditions for the greater good, destroying the old system and creating a new one better one. Claude wants to do the same thing, but not through war. 

Ultimately, what Edelgard stands for is progress. In my mind to be a liberal doesn't mean you have to necessarily be anti-war in every context, I do think such a stance is naive. It is one way too many people in this world fall for. War is a horrible thing, but there are certain contexts where it is the right thing to do and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whenever you are the aggressor or not. What is more important is the values you stand for and what you are fighting against. I have seen it many times as my country's pacifistic nature have led to us ignoring many breaches of human rights in the name of peace. People sometimes don't understand what kind of damage inaction can cause. 

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20 hours ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

Not to mention that there is no telling what Indech would do if they were present, he might be more hostile towards them than the rest if he knew about Edelgard's personal war with Rhea. Granted, I don't know if Indech actually does approve of Rhea, he might have left for a reason. I was kind of thinking that Indech does have quite a bit of knowledge about the true history of Fodlan, it Edelgard could be convinced to talk to him. She might gain a more nuanced understanding of what is going on. Still, I maintain her issues is primarily with Rhea, even if she might be under the misconception that the rest have something more to do with controlling Fodlan than is the actual truth, thanks to Rhea's propaganda and the role the Saints serve in it.

Given how Indech and Maquil respond to the war by just sitting on their butts the entire time and Maquil even scoffing at the notion of landing a hand I doubt they care much about what happens to Rhea. If Edelgard doesn't bother Indech then Indech likely wouldn't bother Edelgard regardless of what she does to Rhea. 

I don't think Edelgard would easily accept anything Indech tells her. She's deeply distrustful of the Nabateans and in general she doesn't really like changing her mind or people disagreeing with her. And if she snaps down a cute girl like Flayn for being a Nabatean then she'd certainly not be any quicker to trust the words of a giant turtle. Also I don't think Indech would be able to convince anyone even if he wanted too. According to Seteth he's really shy and introvert, not the type to have lengthy discussions about history with anyone. Maquil would be a more effective conversation partner but he has no desire to speak with anyone. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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49 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Given how Indech and Maquil respond to the war by just sitting on their butts the entire time and Maquil even scoffing at the notion of landing a hand I doubt they care much about what happens to Rhea. If Edelgard doesn't bother Indech then Indech likely wouldn't bother Edelgard regardless of what she does to Rhea. 

I don't think Edelgard would easily accept anything Indech tells her. She's deeply distrustful of the Nabateans and in general she doesn't really like changing her mind or people disagreeing with her. And if she snaps down a cute girl like Flayn for being a Nabatean then she'd certainly not be any quicker to trust the words of a giant turtle. Also I don't think Indech would be able to convince anyone even if he wanted too. According to Seteth he's really shy and introvert, not the type to have lengthy discussions about history with anyone. Maquil would be a more effective conversation partner but he has no desire to speak with anyone. 

I am still uncertain why they are not allowed to show up on that mission as however much Edelgard and Hubert dislike dragons I am not certain it would be as bad with someone completely unconnected to Rhea and the church. At least with Flayn. Edelgard at least tolerates them going into exile instead of the getting killed, I am convinced that she does indeed know about that and doesn't care as long as they are out of the way

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On 4/30/2020 at 5:46 AM, Blackstarskywalker said:

There is no solid basis for claiming that Edelgard is racist, speciesist, xenophoba, or ethnocentric. You have to pay close attention to her dialogues. He is a person with a very liberal thought.

He?

On 4/30/2020 at 8:08 PM, Darkmoon6789 said:

I am still uncertain why they are not allowed to show up on that mission as however much Edelgard and Hubert dislike dragons I am not certain it would be as bad with someone completely unconnected to Rhea and the church. At least with Flayn. Edelgard at least tolerates them going into exile instead of the getting killed, I am convinced that she does indeed know about that and doesn't care as long as they are out of the way

It's Linhardt who suggests that it's not a good idea to bring Edelgard or Hubert. So, regardless of whether or not she actually would care, Linhardt thinks she would. Make of that what you will. 

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On 4/21/2020 at 1:09 AM, Timlugia said:

Was she? Wasn't Monica used a TWISTD dagger?

Manuela comments on Jeralt's autopsy comments that Jeralt was killed by a type of weapon she never saw before.

The dagger Dimitri gave to Edelgard was a very ordinary straight blade dagger.

You're probably right, because that is indeed the case in most of the playthroughs I myself have done (my mind is failing me these days). I can't remember how the knife Dimitri gave to Edelgard makes its way into conversation and why he starts blaming Edelgard. Maybe it came up in the tragedy at Duscur? Ugh I don't want to replay a campaign just to find out.

Also, am I the only one who actually feels some level of sympathy for Kronya?

Edelgard's cause is far from as worthless as vengeance, she has the most noble goal´ anyone could ever aspire to, freedom

Do you think Edelgard may want vengeance against TWSITD, or do you just think she sees them as irredeemable? As flame emperor she says directly to Thales that "there shall be no redemption for you and your kind" (or something like that). I dunno why she bothered saying that to him directly except insofar as TWSITD may already be very aware that she hates them.

Edited by Original Johan Liebert
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8 minutes ago, Original Johan Liebert said:

You're probably right, because that is indeed the case in most of the playthroughs I myself have done (my mind is failing me these days). I can't remember how the knife Dimitri gave to Edelgard makes its way into conversation and why he starts blaming Edelgard. Maybe it came up in the tragedy at Duscur?

 

She actually dropped it on the ground where Dimitri overheard the Flame Emperor talking with Kronya and Thales.

I think she does want revenge against Agarthans, but had enough foresight to put it on hold to focus on the bigger picture. She saw her revenge as less important than changing the system that led to such awful events happening to her, and her siblings. If she was obsessed vengeance, she would have gone after the Agarthans immediately and probably got herself killed. Anyone would desire vengeance in her case and she isn't as extreme in her belief of redemption as I am. Still, even I find it doubtful that you could redeem the likes of Thales, but maybe it doesn't extend to all Agarthans.  How Solon treats Kronya makes me somewhat suspect that most are brainwashed pawns of their high command.

I guess I am saying that while Edelgard does feel a desire for vengeance. She puts her personal desire second for what she believes to be the greater good. She is very different from Dimitri in this sense, as while she does feel hatred towards those who wronged her, it is not the sole focus of her existence.

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10 hours ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

She actually dropped it on the ground where Dimitri overheard the Flame Emperor talking with Kronya and Thales.

I think she does want revenge against Agarthans, but had enough foresight to put it on hold to focus on the bigger picture. She saw her revenge as less important than changing the system that led to such awful events happening to her, and her siblings. If she was obsessed vengeance, she would have gone after the Agarthans immediately and probably got herself killed. Anyone would desire vengeance in her case and she isn't as extreme in her belief of redemption as I am. Still, even I find it doubtful that you could redeem the likes of Thales, but maybe it doesn't extend to all Agarthans.  How Solon treats Kronya makes me somewhat suspect that most are brainwashed pawns of their high command.

I guess I am saying that while Edelgard does feel a desire for vengeance. She puts her personal desire second for what she believes to be the greater good. She is very different from Dimitri in this sense, as while she does feel hatred towards those who wronged her, it is not the sole focus of her existence.

I think I already said something similar on the subject of Rhea. It seems normal (and justified) to feel hatred for someone or something that did something horrible to you. What doesn't seem right to me is living with hate (when you let that feeling control you and influence you). One of the reasons I admire Edelgard is because of her mental strength. She does not let hate dominate her, she is able to move on.

So it's not about forgetting hate, but rather about controlling that feeling
 
 

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On 5/4/2020 at 7:47 AM, Blackstarskywalker said:

I think I already said something similar on the subject of Rhea. It seems normal (and justified) to feel hatred for someone or something that did something horrible to you. What doesn't seem right to me is living with hate (when you let that feeling control you and influence you). One of the reasons I admire Edelgard is because of her mental strength. She does not let hate dominate her, she is able to move on.

So it's not about forgetting hate, but rather about controlling that feeling
 
 

Well, let me tell you, I owe you for - in my judgment - helping me with something I may never be able to do because of COVID-19. But it's the thought that counts, in this case my thoughts thanks to yours.

There's something I'll say in defense of Dimitri, insane though he may be. Edelgard wasn't betrayed by anyone she cared about early in the story as far as I can tell. Dimitri thought Edelgard betrayed him even though he cared about her. Maybe he thought she cared about him - someone else said something about Edelgard forgetting about her time with Dimitri to begin with.

Not that it probably wasn't a selfish care - I think Claude was right about Dimitri being romantically interested in her.

The way that Edelgard's voice sounds as the flame emperor sounds very angry to me. When she kills people in battle, at least in part 2 of crimson flower, she yells at them sometimes "you're weak!" I think she might hate weakness because she is strong. It's interesting that I remember her being even-tempered when negotiating Dimitri when they attempt to negotiate, but she lashes out at him at the very end of the game when he shows a moment of weakness, offering his hand. I think she lost control of her hate or her anger there, because she could have actually survived. I guess you could draw a distinction between anger and hatred. I don't think it's the same as in Claude's ending, where it's the protagonist she's asking to end her life tearfully. But even when she controls her hatred in Claude's story, even though she seems to be controlling her hatred, she isn't able to move on. IMO her death is more painful. In a way, Hegemon Husk Edelgard might actually be a less problematic and painful villain to deal with than Claude's story Edelgard. I haven't seen if Silver Snow Edelgard death is any different.

If her control of her emotions lead her to be the most killed lord in the game tied with Dimitri, I'm not sure her path was any more successful. Then again, Rhea is dethroned in all four, Byleth - who Edelgard thought better of - appears to get more influential in all four, and I guess the jury is still out about TWSITD because a lot of people seem to have trouble deciding if they're just hiding out somewhere else in any given ending, but the game seems to be leaning towards indicating that at the very least their power has been seriously diminished. I guess one can argue she was successful even past her death.

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1 hour ago, Original Johan Liebert said:

Well, let me tell you, I owe you for - in my judgment - helping me with something I may never be able to do because of COVID-19. But it's the thought that counts, in this case my thoughts thanks to yours.

There's something I'll say in defense of Dimitri, insane though he may be. Edelgard wasn't betrayed by anyone she cared about early in the story as far as I can tell. Dimitri thought Edelgard betrayed him even though he cared about her. Maybe he thought she cared about him - someone else said something about Edelgard forgetting about her time with Dimitri to begin with.

Not that it probably wasn't a selfish care - I think Claude was right about Dimitri being romantically interested in her.

The way that Edelgard's voice sounds as the flame emperor sounds very angry to me. When she kills people in battle, at least in part 2 of crimson flower, she yells at them sometimes "you're weak!" I think she might hate weakness because she is strong. It's interesting that I remember her being even-tempered when negotiating Dimitri when they attempt to negotiate, but she lashes out at him at the very end of the game when he shows a moment of weakness, offering his hand. I think she lost control of her hate or her anger there, because she could have actually survived. I guess you could draw a distinction between anger and hatred. I don't think it's the same as in Claude's ending, where it's the protagonist she's asking to end her life tearfully. But even when she controls her hatred in Claude's story, even though she seems to be controlling her hatred, she isn't able to move on. IMO her death is more painful. In a way, Hegemon Husk Edelgard might actually be a less problematic and painful villain to deal with than Claude's story Edelgard. I haven't seen if Silver Snow Edelgard death is any different.

If her control of her emotions lead her to be the most killed lord in the game tied with Dimitri, I'm not sure her path was any more successful. Then again, Rhea is dethroned in all four, Byleth - who Edelgard thought better of - appears to get more influential in all four, and I guess the jury is still out about TWSITD because a lot of people seem to have trouble deciding if they're just hiding out somewhere else in any given ending, but the game seems to be leaning towards indicating that at the very least their power has been seriously diminished. I guess one can argue she was successful even past her death.

The voice of the Flame Emperor is distorted because the mask to begin with. It is clear that she hates the Agarthans but it is pretty much the only group she shows such hostility towards. You realise that in the negotiation, when Dimitri says that: "you can't expect people to be as strong as you are". Her response is: "so you think I am strong, do you?". The meaning to this is obvious, Edelgard doesn't think of herself as strong. Think you just choose to interpret things in the most unfavourable way possible. You are right that she could have survived in Azure Moon, but it isn't because of her hatred. She doesn't, it is because she has no intention or desire to survive. The motive is actually the exact same as in Verdant Wind, dust with the knowledge that she knows that Dimitri would never him/her unless provoked.

 

 

I don't know about you, but I can't see a shred of hatred or anger on her face. In fact, the last expression. She makes appears to be a smile, and not in a malicious or sadistic way. More like she is amused that Dimitri would try something like this. But she knows it can never be. There is absolutely no sign that she shows any disgust towards Dimitri in this moment. More seems to me that the knife was a calculated move to get the exact result that happens. Looks to me that she considered his offer in her head for a moment until finally deciding that she should not live on. 

You should watch the scene again as what you claim simply isn't supported by what we see. 

The fact of the matter is, she isn't as lost in hatred as Rhea at the end of crimson flower. Even at her most desperate, what she did still isn't as bad as burning down the kingdom, capital.

 

Edit: ehm... I have no idea why the last paragraph of text turned into a link to Edelgard's solo ending. Probably some issue with Dropbox.

Edited by Darkmoon6789
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I dont want to spoiler things, But I think I could say : Maybe her thoughts is right, but the way she do it is completely wrong. That's why I think some people hate her about that.

And I dont think she is the most hated girl.

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13 minutes ago, Hong Nhi said:

I dont want to spoiler things, But I think I could say : Maybe her thoughts is right, but the way she do it is completely wrong. That's why I think some people hate her about that.

And I dont think she is the most hated girl.

I think that it is more accurate to say that she is the girl people have the strongest opinion on, whenever negative or positive. There is a reason why characters everyone are meant to like usually don't have such a strong stance on a controversial topic. Edelgard stands for what she believes in 100% and is completely non-apologetic in her beliefs. This will alienate some people who have a different view from the character, but it is also the only way to reach the higher levels of support from those who do agree with her way of thinking. Which is why characters like her always have a strong base of haters and loyal supporters. 

Ultimately, I think that if the way she went about it was wrong, that assumes that the really was another way. I do think it is really naive to always assume that peaceful solutions are always possible. That peaceful reforms will always work, and that nonviolent resistance will always yield results. The hard truth is that sometimes there is no peaceful solution to a conflict of ideas. Some ideas are so incompatible that they simply can't coexist. Sometimes, in order to reach the greater good, conflict is inevitable. Sometimes you simply don't have any options that won't carry horrible consequences. Ultimately this is what Edelgard represents and why she is so controversial.

It is essentially the innate contradiction between: "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" and: "the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good to do nothing". 

"Damned if you do and damned if you don't". Is what really comes to mind. 

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4 hours ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

I think that it is more accurate to say that she is the girl people have the strongest opinion on, whenever negative or positive. There is a reason why characters everyone are meant to like usually don't have such a strong stance on a controversial topic. Edelgard stands for what she believes in 100% and is completely non-apologetic in her beliefs. This will alienate some people who have a different view from the character, but it is also the only way to reach the higher levels of support from those who do agree with her way of thinking. Which is why characters like her always have a strong base of haters and loyal supporters. 

Ultimately, I think that if the way she went about it was wrong, that assumes that the really was another way. I do think it is really naive to always assume that peaceful solutions are always possible. That peaceful reforms will always work, and that nonviolent resistance will always yield results. The hard truth is that sometimes there is no peaceful solution to a conflict of ideas. Some ideas are so incompatible that they simply can't coexist. Sometimes, in order to reach the greater good, conflict is inevitable. Sometimes you simply don't have any options that won't carry horrible consequences. Ultimately this is what Edelgard represents and why she is so controversial.

It is essentially the innate contradiction between: "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" and: "the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good to do nothing". 

"Damned if you do and damned if you don't". Is what really comes to mind. 

I agreed. Actually, she is the first charater that make me want to play the game ( her design though ) , Her personality is great too : strong, calm.determine. But she is just a girl, she stil need someone beside her. To make a wiser path.

Also, nice profile pic 🙂 . If I make a top 10 girl in Fire Emblem ( about their look ) . Edelgard definely in top 5 or above.

Edited by Hong Nhi
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12 minutes ago, Hong Nhi said:

I agreed. Actually, she is the first charater that make me want to play the game ( her design though ) , Her personality is great too : strong, calm.determine. But she is just a girl, she stil need someone beside her. To make a wiser path.

Also, nice profile pic 🙂 . If I make a top 10 girl in Fire Emblem ( about their look ) . Edelgard definely in top 5 or above.

I would agree with that. Edelgard needs people at her side, a lot of the Empire's best policies weren't her doing alone. And yes, Edelgard is amazingBut suggested to her through her supports with the other members of the Black Eagles and other characters. Like Ferdinand, suggesting the whole thing with free education to help even the playing field between nobles and commoners. Not to mention how Byleth is very important to her as an emotional pillar to lean against, serving a role that Hubert just can't.

And yes, Edelgard have a great look about her, great personality too.  So majestic and simultaneously adorable

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People who brand Edelgard as a liberal or any political leaning outside of a meritocracy confuse me, she's not aiming for a communist/socialist government or anything like that.

Edited by FrostyFireMage
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I think Edelgard is hated because, for the right or wrong reasons, she did start the war. And in most of the routes in the game, the task falls upon you and your house to face her and put an end to the war that SHE started. Still, I would hesitate to call her an antagonist, because her attack on the church and what it stands for is partly justified. Also, Edelgard was still against those who slither in the dark, who are the true enemies of FE3H. Yes, most routes do depict her as an enemy, but with the exception of the Blue Lions Route, she is not the main enemy (Edelgard is the main antagonist of the Blue Lions Route). Whether or not Edelgard is an antagonist is, in my opinion, dependent on which route you like most. If you loved the Black Eagles Route, then you were probably cheering Edelgard on throughout her campaign against the Church of Seiros, but if you were more of a fan of the other routes, then you saw her as a traitor to the peace of Fodlan, and killed her during your playthrough.

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2 minutes ago, FrostyFireMage said:

People who brand Edelgard as a liberal or any political leaning confuse me, she wants a meritocracy not a communist/socialist government or anything like that.

She is technically not left wing or right-wing the way we understand it, as she lives in a world completely different from ours. People usually think too much in terms of right and left when it isn't always appropriate.

But she does have several policies that could be associated with liberalism. Ultimately, her goal is freedom for the people by the disbandment of the nobility and inherited power, she is for enlightenment and the progress of technology and supports secularism, all things that some people associate with liberalism (something she also has in common with the participants of the French Revolution, she has serious Napoleon parallels). But it isn't like she is a socialist or anything as Edelgard doesn't even have a concept of the term. Same reason she is not a fascist, as that is also a political philosophy that is too new for Edelgard to even have a notion of the concept. But her and Ferdinand's plan to create free education is very much a socialist policy. But meritocracy as a whole could also be interpreted that she might be in favour of free market capitalism if she had a notion of the concept, which she probably doesn't due to it also being too new. But under the modern political umbrella. This might qualify as right-wing.

As you can see, Edelgard's policies are all over the place on the political spectrum, but she legitimately had some belifs shared by of the modern right and left. But overall, why some people might associate her with liberalism is that Edelgard famously dislikes tradition and therefore definitely isn't conservative. She is all about progress and changing the old order. It is just that her world's status quo is different from ours.

I usually compare policies with other people in the world when deciding who to support. Don't exactly expect her to introduce a modern democracy as she wouldn't have a concept of the idea because it doesn't really have a history in Fodlan. Theoretically, both Edelgard government and Dimitri's could possibly lead to a democracy in future generations.

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8 hours ago, Original Johan Liebert said:

Well, let me tell you, I owe you for - in my judgment - helping me with something I may never be able to do because of COVID-19. But it's the thought that counts, in this case my thoughts thanks to yours.

There's something I'll say in defense of Dimitri, insane though he may be. Edelgard wasn't betrayed by anyone she cared about early in the story as far as I can tell. Dimitri thought Edelgard betrayed him even though he cared about her. Maybe he thought she cared about him - someone else said something about Edelgard forgetting about her time with Dimitri to begin with.

Not that it probably wasn't a selfish care - I think Claude was right about Dimitri being romantically interested in her.

The way that Edelgard's voice sounds as the flame emperor sounds very angry to me. When she kills people in battle, at least in part 2 of crimson flower, she yells at them sometimes "you're weak!" I think she might hate weakness because she is strong. It's interesting that I remember her being even-tempered when negotiating Dimitri when they attempt to negotiate, but she lashes out at him at the very end of the game when he shows a moment of weakness, offering his hand. I think she lost control of her hate or her anger there, because she could have actually survived. I guess you could draw a distinction between anger and hatred. I don't think it's the same as in Claude's ending, where it's the protagonist she's asking to end her life tearfully. But even when she controls her hatred in Claude's story, even though she seems to be controlling her hatred, she isn't able to move on. IMO her death is more painful. In a way, Hegemon Husk Edelgard might actually be a less problematic and painful villain to deal with than Claude's story Edelgard. I haven't seen if Silver Snow Edelgard death is any different.

If her control of her emotions lead her to be the most killed lord in the game tied with Dimitri, I'm not sure her path was any more successful. Then again, Rhea is dethroned in all four, Byleth - who Edelgard thought better of - appears to get more influential in all four, and I guess the jury is still out about TWSITD because a lot of people seem to have trouble deciding if they're just hiding out somewhere else in any given ending, but the game seems to be leaning towards indicating that at the very least their power has been seriously diminished. I guess one can argue she was successful even past her death.

I think it are two different things. She couldn't live in a world where the crest system is followed and the status quo is maintained, so her deaths in Silver Snow and Azure Moon make sense. She accepts that she has to die, and it no longer has to do with a hate issue

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One thing that always bothered me about the writing of Edelgard or CF in general tbh is how the one person who got no title or anything out of all of this was the one commoner in her group, Dorothea. Casper gets the position of his father as stated in game as recognition of his efforts in the war. Ferdinand gets his lands back. But Dorothea? Nope Dorothea stays a commoner and only can marry to make her situation better, despite being in the main team, even her solo-ending insist on her getting married.

It just seems kinda weird and not fitting of Edel given her goals

Edited by Lapis
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16 minutes ago, Lapis said:

One thing that always bothered me about the writing of Edelgard or CF in general tbh is how the one person who got no title or anything out of all of this was the one commoner in her group, Dorothea. Casper gets the position of his father as stated in game as recognition of his efforts in the war. Ferdinand gets his lands back. But Dorothea? Nope Dorothea stays a commoner and only can marry to make her situation better, despite being in the main team, even her solo-ending insist on her getting married.

It just seems kinda weird and not fitting of Edel given her goals

It is probably due to Dorothea not wanting a political position as she rather wanted to get back to the opera. Edelgard wouldn,t have any issue giving her a position of power if that is what Dorothea really wanted. But she is rather successful and wealthy due to her opera about Edelgard even the Emperor loved.

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27 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

It is probably due to Dorothea not wanting a political position as she rather wanted to get back to the opera. Edelgard wouldn,t have any issue giving her a position of power if that is what Dorothea really wanted. But she is rather successful and wealthy due to her opera about Edelgard even the Emperor loved.

Hm yeah... this makes sense but if that's the case it kinda feels then that they only tell us that Edelgard wants to change up the class system but don't show us like an commoner who does get into a position of power. They even could have just added an NPC to fill that role while not great it would have been better than nothing. As of now the thing that basically everyone of the BEs get the positions they always were intended to get no matter the system change (except Casper ig) can be seen as best just a bit of lazy writing and at worst nepotism. Though i don't think Edelgard based on her in-game values and goals would  do nepotism.

i honestly think, that if aspects like that in CF and the route in general had gotten a bit more world building and  bit of an overworked storyline between Intsys decision to not make it a secret route anymore and the games' release it would have given way less complaints about Edelgard as a character.

Edited by Lapis
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35 minutes ago, Lapis said:

Hm yeah... this makes sense but if that's the case it kinda feels then that they only tell us that Edelgard wants to change up the class system but don't show us like an commoner who does get into a position of power. They even could have just added an NPC to fill that role while not great it would have been better than nothing. As of now the thing that basically everyone of the BEs get the positions they always were intended to get no matter the system change (except Casper ig) can be seen as best just a bit of lazy writing and at worst nepotism. Though i don't think Edelgard based on her in-game values and goals would  do nepotism.

i honestly think, that if aspects like that in CF and the route in general had gotten a bit more world building and  bit of an overworked storyline between Intsys decision to not make it a secret route anymore and the games' release it would have given way less complaints about Edelgard as a character.

Given Edelgard's position on her own children, that being that they shouldn't inherit her position as Emperor, I would actually expect her to make laws against her officials choosing their own offspring as their successors. When it comes to nepotism, I don't know why this is always ignored, but the previous number. This system is pretty much the height of nepotism in that the children of the last ruler always inherit their position, regardless of competency.  

I actually had to look up what happened to be other commoners in Crimson Flower, it seems that Raphael and Ashe both become knights, even if Raphael later quits his position to inherit his father's inn. It is the same solo ending they get in every route. But I guess that counts as being promoted into nobility. I actually kind of have a feeling that Edelgard will probably choose a former commoner as the next Emperor, it would be the ultimate symbolic gesture that social class doesn't matter under this new system. Am I forgetting any commoner character? There really don't seem to be that many in the game. 

I actually do agree that more effort should have been spent on Crimson Flower, for once 9t should have been considered the main route of the Black Eagles. I know not everyone could get behind Edelgard and her methods. But you don't get a choice in siding with Dimitri and I straight up wouldn't do that in Byleth's shoes. If I didn't know that he was going to have a redemption arc. I am really not in favour of boar Dimitri's methods or the fact that he seems to enjoy torture and murder.  But despite its flaws, what is still there in Crimson flower still quite good. I just wish there was an additional arc where you fought against Thales. Few have suffered more at the hands of Thales and Edelgard, she deserves to be able to take him down. Still, I am glad this rout exists at all. If I chose a house leader at the beginning of the game, I would expect following them and their story. If I had to fight against Edelgard with the house she is supposed to be the leader of, I would feel seriously ripped off. It also has some of the best emotional weight of the entire game with its interactions between Edelgard and Byleth and the others.

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5 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

Am I forgetting any commoner character?

Leonie, Hapi, Yuri (if they count bc DLC) and ig Ignatz. Leonie becomes a mercenary either way and Ignatz just an artist as always, Yuri does his underground business and helps orphans and Hapi basically goes into hiding and occasionally helps out the empire agains Those who slither her being the only one with an explicit CF ending out of the 4.

 

29 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

I actually kind of have a feeling that Edelgard will probably choose a former commoner as the next Emperor,

Yes i am thinking that too. It just would have been nice to actually See it you know? Like maybe the game introducing the character in part 2 and showing them slowly working the ranks up and growing from that into a good candidate for the role.

Tbh the thing with the writing and world building was just out of my personal problems  bc while i find the premise of CF and Edelgard really interesting and facinating i think the execution leaves for me at least a lot to be desired. Maybe its bc i played AM and VW first and now am biased but a lot of especially the last third of CF felt rushed and undeveloped. I think part of that is because of how the developers said in an interview that originally SS was suppose to be the Black Eagles route and they later changes it bc they wanted the player to be able to side with Edel too so they made CF a secret route, but then also changed that again and decided it's so easy to get that it is kinda the main route for BE now. Like if it was nothing but an extra route it would have been fine that it's a bit shorter than the other routes and had less cinematics and all. But like this i think they really should have added some chapters and wrapped some things up. I don't hate Edelgard, but she isnt my favouriote either just due to the writing i simply prefer her in the antagonistic role she plays in SS/AM/VW.

To come back to the original topic tho my theory is a lot of people seem to hate her due to her being presented a lot more 'prominent' than Claude and Dimitri for example from a marketing point. That in it self isnt a bad thing but it is not rocket science to conclude that when someone doesnt like or is just midly against a character but whenever they interact with the media the character is 'more' front and center than other characters that might be equal, people easily can drift off into extremes. This is about FEH but also about the pre-release marketing of Three houses and things like the theme song of the whole game being solely in her perspective. I really hope it doesn't come over as me trying to justify some of the extreme haters or saying that i am one. This is simply my theory on the topic.

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15 minutes ago, Lapis said:

Leonie, Hapi, Yuri (if they count bc DLC) and ig Ignatz. Leonie becomes a mercenary either way and Ignatz just an artist as always, Yuri does his underground business and helps orphans and Hapi basically goes into hiding and occasionally helps out the empire agains Those who slither her being the only one with an explicit CF ending out of the 4.

 

Yes i am thinking that too. It just would have been nice to actually See it you know? Like maybe the game introducing the character in part 2 and showing them slowly working the ranks up and growing from that into a good candidate for the role.

Tbh the thing with the writing and world building was just out of my personal problems  bc while i find the premise of CF and Edelgard really interesting and facinating i think the execution leaves for me at least a lot to be desired. Maybe its bc i played AM and VW first and now am biased but a lot of especially the last third of CF felt rushed and undeveloped. I think part of that is because of how the developers said in an interview that originally SS was suppose to be the Black Eagles route and they later changes it bc they wanted the player to be able to side with Edel too so they made CF a secret route, but then also changed that again and decided it's so easy to get that it is kinda the main route for BE now. Like if it was nothing but an extra route it would have been fine that it's a bit shorter than the other routes and had less cinematics and all. But like this i think they really should have added some chapters and wrapped some things up. I don't hate Edelgard, but she isnt my favouriote either just due to the writing i simply prefer her in the antagonistic role she plays in SS/AM/VW.

To come back to the original topic tho my theory is a lot of people seem to hate her due to her being presented a lot more 'prominent' than Claude and Dimitri for example from a marketing point. That in it self isnt a bad thing but it is not rocket science to conclude that when someone doesnt like or is just midly against a character but whenever they interact with the media the character is 'more' front and center than other characters that might be equal, people easily can drift off into extremes. This is about FEH but also about the pre-release marketing of Three houses and things like the theme song of the whole game being solely in her perspective. I really hope it doesn't come over as me trying to justify some of the extreme haters or saying that i am one. This is simply my theory on the topic.

It seem to me that Edelgard ended up as a far more likeable character than was originally intended when the developers first started working on the game, they later realise this fact and that the player might actually want to join her and so made the Crimson Flower route. Maybe it could have been more expanded if we came up with it later in development, but I am glad it exists at all. It is actually my either favourite or second favourite route in the game, Azure Moon is the main competitor. I just feel that these two routs have the strongest emotional cores. I am not sure what the point of silver snow is at all honestly, it actually feels a lot more redundant than crimson flower due to being so similar to verdant wind. It would actually be pretty bad if it was the only route available for Black Eagles. 

I do actually think Edelgard's prominence in marketing makes sense as she is a major character, regardless of route. Major antagonist is still a very important role and I think her being more prominent than Dimitri and Claude is justified. I read that she was originally envisioned as Byleth's... well… Nemesis. Granted, with changes later in development, she ended up being much more than that, as she is now a major antagonist and a possible protagonist in her own right. Granted, I do think that Dimitri should have been developed for has an antagonist in crimson flower, as it is you essentially need to have played Azure Moon truly understand the how dangerous Dimitri actually was when he was obsessed with vengeance. 

Let me tell you, as a massive fan of Edelgard. It is actually amazing that she gets so much focus in heroes. Granted, I would also really love to have timeskip Dimitri as a playable hero. 

To rank the three lords in order, my favourite is Edelgard, followed by Dimitri, followed by Claude. Claude is a good character in his own right, but Edelgard and Dimitri are both god tier characters, the personal conflict between the two of them is unmatched when it comes to drama, in comparison, I feel like Claude barely have anything to do with the plot. It is also a case of him not being flawed enough in comparison to the other two. Believe it or not, it is the floors of Edelgard and Dimitri that makes them compelling to me. I wouldn't like Dimitri,nearly as much as I do as a character if he didn't have such a strong dark side.

As for Edelgard, she is something that I don't very often see in any form of media, a well-intentioned conqueror who wants to conquer the continent not to further her own personal power, but because she genuinely thinks that she is liberating people from a tyrant that has brainwashed people into obedience for generations. She is basically a subversion of the evil Emperor archetype like Dimitri is a subversion of the heroic Prince archetype. I understand why the developers are so proud of Edelgard. It does seem that she has a character actually exceeded their original expectations as well.

I could be wrong, but my original estimation for why some people hated her is simply that they couldn't comprehend the concept of a conquering empire being anything other than evil. Of course, my extreme devotion to Edelgard is in a way a response to feeling that Edelgard doesn't deserve the hatred she gets. So I might be overcompensating for it

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