Why Edelgard von Hresvelg is the most hated girl?

[Darkmoon6789]

28 minutes ago, eclipse said:

We're reading the same topic, right?

I think so, I guess you are referring to someone randomly bringing up Alm and the tangent with socialism? 

The socialism thing was originally connected to pointing out that Edelgard wasn't a communist or a socialist.

Anyway, I love Edelgard. 

[eclipse]

10 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

Anyway, I love Edelgard. 

Yeah.  But don't let it blind you to her criticisms.  Or when the topic is going in weird directions.

[Landmaster]

I don't think Edelgard is the most hated girl by any stretch of the imagination but I'm also confused why OP brought up F!Byleth? What does she have to do with Edelgard or being hated?~

[Troykv]

5 hours ago, Landmaster said:

I don't think Edelgard is the most hated girl by any stretch of the imagination but I'm also confused why OP brought up F!Byleth? What does she have to do with Edelgard or being hated?~

I think is because of one of the early Nintendo Dream magazines where F!Byleth was the most voted female character, I imagine.

[Lophfie]

Did nothing wrong.

[Jugdral Defender]

I saw some discussion about Alvis and unless prompted I'm not going to get into it deeply right at this time, but Alvis is absolutely nothing like Edelgard. Their stories are also completely different as people. The only similarities are the whole Flame Emperor and evil dark cult things going on. I've written about it before and I'll grab that text if prompted, but their character arcs are completely opposite of each other. Their behavior, attitudes, general characters, stories, arcs and relationships are also nothing alike.

As one super big example, Alvis recognized his mistakes and made a last effort to see peace restored through Celice. He accepted his death if Celice was strong enough to kill him, even hiding Tyrfing for years to give to him. As soon as Celice's army was nearby, he gave Palmark the Tyrfing to give to Celice. Alvis was willing to die for the world he envisioned. He entrusted his ideals to someone else.

On the other hand, Edelgard would never, ever entrust her ideals to the other lords of her game. Even when it was completely clear that Dimitri's intentions were good and that he wanted change in the world as well in Azure Moon (and Dimitri had similar thoughts as Edelgard with the whole Crest system and yadda yadda), Edelgard refused to yield. She was never willing to die for the sake of her new world and didn't feel she could entrust her vision of a new world to anyone else. Instead, she was trying to crush all opposition (even including neutral territories). Her belief seemed to be that it had to be her, specifically, who brought about this change.

In contrast, Alvis sided specifically with the opposition because the opposition felt the same way he did. He gave his supposed enemy the means to defeat him. In all routes of Three Houses, Edelgard never does this - she remains consistently opposed to all other territories across each route (meaning there are no gaps in her character that would make her comparable to Alvis in even one route because she, as a character as well as throughout her arc, remain consistent). Basically, Alvis saw a future in Celice's reign and entrusted the future he hoped for to Celice. Edelgard could have done the same thing but never did, and nor did she ever want to.

Both of them wanted one nation, sure - but Alvis wanted to unify the continent and destroy all prejudice of bloodlines so that even people with Lopt blood could live in his new world (he even stated in gen 1 that he had no problem with the Lopt Sect existing, but he wasn't going to allow them to do harm. In other words, he wasn't going to allow the Sect to be destroyed just for simply existing because that would be hypocritical to his ideals for a new world lacking prejudiced). Edelgard wanted to conquer the continent and have the Children of the Goddess fully removed from power, and also is against dragons having power over humanity (which is a very stark contrast to Jugdral, who view the dragons as gods and see the weapons given to them by those dragons as holy and blessed). Edelgard expresses not wanting the Crest system in place and wants to change it, whereas Alvis is content with the holy bloodlines remaining as they are. Simply put, the holy bloodlines aren't viewed as problematic like Crests are - rather, they're respected and the inheritors are royalty/nobility, which is accepted in Jugdral. In Fodlan, the Crest systems becomes more and more questionable throughout the game (and most presently expressed in CF and AM, which are meant to be two sides of the same coin imo through Edelgard and Dimitri).

When Edelgard conquered Fodlan, there was opposition and war going on for five straight years and many, many characters hated her rule. Alvis' rule was considered peaceful for over a decade until the Lopt Sect took over and let the blame fall to Alvis instead while running around him and making it seem like he was okay with it. Right from the start, Edelgard allied with TWSITD but planned to destroy them in the end, whereas Alvis never actually allied with the Lopt Sect - he just wasn't going to destroy the Sect initially because they hadn't done anything wrong yet at the time. Granted, they both have the whole Sect thing going on, but even those situations are vastly different.

YEAH I SAID I WASN'T GOING TO GET TOO DEEPLY INTO IT but oh well. I mean, this is like a small portion of what I've written before about them, but basically Alvis and Edelgard are on two completely opposite ends of the new world spectrum. Their situations also differ far too much (ex. Crests and holy bloodlines). 

[Blackstarskywalker]

2 hours ago, Jugdral Defender said:

I saw some discussion about Alvis and unless prompted I'm not going to get into it deeply right at this time, but Alvis is absolutely nothing like Edelgard. Their stories are also completely different as people. The only similarities are the whole Flame Emperor and evil dark cult things going on. I've written about it before and I'll grab that text if prompted, but their character arcs are completely opposite of each other. Their behavior, attitudes, general characters, stories, arcs and relationships are also nothing alike.

As one super big example, Alvis recognized his mistakes and made a last effort to see peace restored through Celice. He accepted his death if Celice was strong enough to kill him, even hiding Tyrfing for years to give to him. As soon as Celice's army was nearby, he gave Palmark the Tyrfing to give to Celice. Alvis was willing to die for the world he envisioned. He entrusted his ideals to someone else.

On the other hand, Edelgard would never, ever entrust her ideals to the other lords of her game. Even when it was completely clear that Dimitri's intentions were good and that he wanted change in the world as well in Azure Moon (and Dimitri had similar thoughts as Edelgard with the whole Crest system and yadda yadda), Edelgard refused to yield. She was never willing to die for the sake of her new world and didn't feel she could entrust her vision of a new world to anyone else. Instead, she was trying to crush all opposition (even including neutral territories). Her belief seemed to be that it had to be her, specifically, who brought about this change.

In contrast, Alvis sided specifically with the opposition because the opposition felt the same way he did. He gave his supposed enemy the means to defeat him. In all routes of Three Houses, Edelgard never does this - she remains consistently opposed to all other territories across each route (meaning there are no gaps in her character that would make her comparable to Alvis in even one route because she, as a character as well as throughout her arc, remain consistent). Basically, Alvis saw a future in Celice's reign and entrusted the future he hoped for to Celice. Edelgard could have done the same thing but never did, and nor did she ever want to.

Both of them wanted one nation, sure - but Alvis wanted to unify the continent and destroy all prejudice of bloodlines so that even people with Lopt blood could live in his new world (he even stated in gen 1 that he had no problem with the Lopt Sect existing, but he wasn't going to allow them to do harm. In other words, he wasn't going to allow the Sect to be destroyed just for simply existing because that would be hypocritical to his ideals for a new world lacking prejudiced). Edelgard wanted to conquer the continent and have the Children of the Goddess fully removed from power, and also is against dragons having power over humanity (which is a very stark contrast to Jugdral, who view the dragons as gods and see the weapons given to them by those dragons as holy and blessed). Edelgard expresses not wanting the Crest system in place and wants to change it, whereas Alvis is content with the holy bloodlines remaining as they are. Simply put, the holy bloodlines aren't viewed as problematic like Crests are - rather, they're respected and the inheritors are royalty/nobility, which is accepted in Jugdral. In Fodlan, the Crest systems becomes more and more questionable throughout the game (and most presently expressed in CF and AM, which are meant to be two sides of the same coin imo through Edelgard and Dimitri).

When Edelgard conquered Fodlan, there was opposition and war going on for five straight years and many, many characters hated her rule. Alvis' rule was considered peaceful for over a decade until the Lopt Sect took over and let the blame fall to Alvis instead while running around him and making it seem like he was okay with it. Right from the start, Edelgard allied with TWSITD but planned to destroy them in the end, whereas Alvis never actually allied with the Lopt Sect - he just wasn't going to destroy the Sect initially because they hadn't done anything wrong yet at the time. Granted, they both have the whole Sect thing going on, but even those situations are vastly different.

YEAH I SAID I WASN'T GOING TO GET TOO DEEPLY INTO IT but oh well. I mean, this is like a small portion of what I've written before about them, but basically Alvis and Edelgard are on two completely opposite ends of the new world spectrum. Their situations also differ far too much (ex. Crests and holy bloodlines). 

Dimitri's thoughts regarding the Crest system are very vague. In fact, its end is a simple improvement while maintaining the status quo.

Yes, no one denies Edelgard's mistrust. But to solve that problem there is already her own route, where she sees in Byleth someone she can trust.

Edelgard has no prejudice against any ethnicity, race or species. It is Rhea who thinks that humans cannot govern themselves, that's why she spends a millennium trying to revive her mother (so it is Rhea who sees humans as inferior).

So I don't see why it has to be hard to remove a dragon from power, when it clearly abuses its power and does nothing to improve people's quality of life.

[Darkmoon6789]

4 hours ago, Jugdral Defender said:

I saw some discussion about Alvis and unless prompted I'm not going to get into it deeply right at this time, but Alvis is absolutely nothing like Edelgard. Their stories are also completely different as people. The only similarities are the whole Flame Emperor and evil dark cult things going on. I've written about it before and I'll grab that text if prompted, but their character arcs are completely opposite of each other. Their behavior, attitudes, general characters, stories, arcs and relationships are also nothing alike.

As one super big example, Alvis recognized his mistakes and made a last effort to see peace restored through Celice. He accepted his death if Celice was strong enough to kill him, even hiding Tyrfing for years to give to him. As soon as Celice's army was nearby, he gave Palmark the Tyrfing to give to Celice. Alvis was willing to die for the world he envisioned. He entrusted his ideals to someone else.

On the other hand, Edelgard would never, ever entrust her ideals to the other lords of her game. Even when it was completely clear that Dimitri's intentions were good and that he wanted change in the world as well in Azure Moon (and Dimitri had similar thoughts as Edelgard with the whole Crest system and yadda yadda), Edelgard refused to yield. She was never willing to die for the sake of her new world and didn't feel she could entrust her vision of a new world to anyone else. Instead, she was trying to crush all opposition (even including neutral territories). Her belief seemed to be that it had to be her, specifically, who brought about this change.

In contrast, Alvis sided specifically with the opposition because the opposition felt the same way he did. He gave his supposed enemy the means to defeat him. In all routes of Three Houses, Edelgard never does this - she remains consistently opposed to all other territories across each route (meaning there are no gaps in her character that would make her comparable to Alvis in even one route because she, as a character as well as throughout her arc, remain consistent). Basically, Alvis saw a future in Celice's reign and entrusted the future he hoped for to Celice. Edelgard could have done the same thing but never did, and nor did she ever want to.

Both of them wanted one nation, sure - but Alvis wanted to unify the continent and destroy all prejudice of bloodlines so that even people with Lopt blood could live in his new world (he even stated in gen 1 that he had no problem with the Lopt Sect existing, but he wasn't going to allow them to do harm. In other words, he wasn't going to allow the Sect to be destroyed just for simply existing because that would be hypocritical to his ideals for a new world lacking prejudiced). Edelgard wanted to conquer the continent and have the Children of the Goddess fully removed from power, and also is against dragons having power over humanity (which is a very stark contrast to Jugdral, who view the dragons as gods and see the weapons given to them by those dragons as holy and blessed). Edelgard expresses not wanting the Crest system in place and wants to change it, whereas Alvis is content with the holy bloodlines remaining as they are. Simply put, the holy bloodlines aren't viewed as problematic like Crests are - rather, they're respected and the inheritors are royalty/nobility, which is accepted in Jugdral. In Fodlan, the Crest systems becomes more and more questionable throughout the game (and most presently expressed in CF and AM, which are meant to be two sides of the same coin imo through Edelgard and Dimitri).

When Edelgard conquered Fodlan, there was opposition and war going on for five straight years and many, many characters hated her rule. Alvis' rule was considered peaceful for over a decade until the Lopt Sect took over and let the blame fall to Alvis instead while running around him and making it seem like he was okay with it. Right from the start, Edelgard allied with TWSITD but planned to destroy them in the end, whereas Alvis never actually allied with the Lopt Sect - he just wasn't going to destroy the Sect initially because they hadn't done anything wrong yet at the time. Granted, they both have the whole Sect thing going on, but even those situations are vastly different.

YEAH I SAID I WASN'T GOING TO GET TOO DEEPLY INTO IT but oh well. I mean, this is like a small portion of what I've written before about them, but basically Alvis and Edelgard are on two completely opposite ends of the new world spectrum. Their situations also differ far too much (ex. Crests and holy bloodlines). 

Never said they were identical. But there are certainly similarities, especially in both having good intentions but said good intentions also putting them on a darker path.

You do also involuntarily bring up another similarity with Arvis and Edelgard. Edelgard also accepted her death after her defeat, in fact, it is very difficult to convince her otherwise. If not impossible. What she says to Byleth after she is defeated in silver snow and verdant wind also sounds to me like she is passing the torch over to them.

"Your path lies across my grave, it is time for you to find the courage to walk it"
_ Edelgard

Even in Azure Moon. If you remember the true meaning of that dagger, and how it is connected to Dimitri's original message of "carving your own path". Edelgard returning the dagger in the manner in which it does can be interpreted as a passing of the torch and indirectly telling Dimitri that it is now up to him to carve his own path into the future as she can no longer do it.

Of course Edelgard only entrusts the future to others after she has no hope of victory and she always insists that she must die with her cause. That in order for someone else to park their path into the future, she must die. So while she would prefer to spearhead the changes to society herself, it sounds to me that she eventually did entrusts the future to another in insisting that Byleth's path lied across her grave. It makes sense that if Edelgard would entrust the future to anyone, it would be Byleth.

[Jugdral Defender]

50 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

Never said they were identical. But there are certainly similarities, especially in both having good intentions but said good intentions also putting them on a darker path.

You do also involuntarily bring up another similarity with Arvis and Edelgard. Edelgard also accepted her death after her defeat, in fact, it is very difficult to convince her otherwise. If not impossible. What she says to Byleth after she is defeated in silver snow and verdant wind also sounds to me like she is passing the torch over to them.

"Your path lies across my grave, it is time for you to find the courage to walk it"
_ Edelgard

Even in Azure Moon. If you remember the true meaning of that dagger, and how it is connected to Dimitri's original message of "carving your own path". Edelgard returning the dagger in the manner in which it does can be interpreted as a passing of the torch and indirectly telling Dimitri that it is now up to him to carve his own path into the future as she can no longer do it.

Of course Edelgard only entrusts the future to others after she has no hope of victory and she always insists that she must die with her cause. That in order for someone else to park their path into the future, she must die. So while she would prefer to spearhead the changes to society herself, it sounds to me that she eventually did entrusts the future to another in insisting that Byleth's path lied across her grave. It makes sense that if Edelgard would entrust the future to anyone, it would be Byleth.

Yes, Edelgard accepted death after defeat, but Alvis hadn't been defeated yet. He also quite literally gave his "enemy" the means to defeat him, which is where the difference lies. Edelgard accepted defeat upon, well, defeat. When she was backed into a corner with no way out. She passed the torch to Byleth when there was literally no other choice. Alvis did it before death and for different reasons. If we're just going by very simple passing the torch explanations, then Claude essentially does that too in CF, so imo it's not a legit comparison when the means are so very different.

Alvis wasn't really on a darker path tbh. He killed Sigurd, yes... and regretted it, safekeeping his weapons until Sigurd's child was close enough to give it to him. Alvis' reign was too peaceful to really be considered a "dark" path. Edelgard didn't think there was any other way besides war, but Alvis never started a war. Killing Sigurd didn't start a war at all. In turn, Celice started the war over a decade later (for good reason obviously, but it was all caused by the Lopt Sect and the crappy people in power who thought they were doing what Alvis wanted when he was just being used as a figurehead by the Sect), but nothing Alvis did began a war. He never thought a war was essential to bring about change. Again, a big difference: Edelgard didn't have much time left to live and thought war was the quickest way out of everything. War is the opposite of what Alvis wanted.

I guess you can see the dagger thing as passing the torch, but I never really saw throwing a dagger into someone's shoulder as such. But regardless, again - that only happened when she was defeated and had no other out. Dimitri in AM by that point had already given her the chance to end the war and settle things peacefully, but she chose not to go along with that. Alvis was very protective about his people, but Edelgard was willing to sacrifice however many she had to to reach her goals. Alvis personally killed one person (Sigurd) and wasn't ultimately comfortable with the decision he made (the rest of the Battle of Barhara wasn't just Alvis specifically, but he also knew he was wrong eventually).

Ultimately though my main point is that it's a really far stretch to even call them similar as people, because they had very different goals in mind. Again, banishing the Crest system as it was versus nobody even caring about the holy bloodlines being in power for example. Who they are and what they had in mind were very different, as well as the circumstances surrounding their decisions. I'm not saying Edelgard didn't ultimately end up trusting Byleth or something, but the means of reaching that point in non-CF routes takes her dying first, whereas Alvis had already planned for his defeat specifically (versus Edelgard deciding she'd only do that if she was defeated and never actually planned to be defeated). In CF, it's even less similar because Edelgard trusts Byleth, who is there with her. Alvis doesn't have anyone by his side that he explicitly trusts and is only able to pin his hopes with Celice, who is "the enemy" at the time.

I'm not saying Edelgard didn't do the things you're mentioning, but the situations that led to them were vastly different than with Alvis and even in the end, they weren't really similar. I also don't have a problem with you liking her - I just don't see her and Alvis as having anything in common beyond extremely vague details.

[SuperNova125]

Edelgard is well liked I think, if she wasn't she wouldn't be so controversial. Many people disagree with her methods for doing things and that makes them hate her, while some other people like her and defend her, both exist and that's why there is such a ruchus over her. Also I don't know about the early popularity polls however in CYL she was first meaning that she has a bigger following than we may believe. 

I mostly agree with what was mentioned about the difference between Edelgard and Arvis. I do believe however there are some small similarities, for example both of them are willing to work with the evil cult to achieve their goals and that is something they don't like. Both have scenes where they mention to the cult leader how they don't care about their goals, Arvis saying to Manfroy how he won't help with the resurrection of Loptous and Edelgard as Flame Emperor telling Thales how there will be no salvation for their kind. Also Arvis after his conquest of Jugdral for a period he bacame a great leader, something that Edelgard also is mentioned to be in CF where she managed to win the war and her system made Fodlan better (the ending says something like that). This is where the similarities end, as in the future with Julius being taken over by Loptous and the Sect gaining even more power and at the end becoming nothing more than a figurehead, Arvis saw how he failed and needed to pass the troch to someone. However, we see Edelgard during her conquest not afterwards, we don't know how she felt after the war only her actions (taking out the Agarthans and having a successor). Arvis did similar things to what Edelgard did during his conquest (invading other nations, killing lots of innocents with Sigurd and his army being part of the victims). I doubt during that time he felt the need to atone for his crimes or give power to someone else, if Sigurd was magically saved and asked the throne Arvis would most likely burn him again. Which brings me to another point, many people bring how Edelgard doesn't surrender or atone for her crimes. I would be disappointed if she did because that would contradict with what her character is established as, a prideful and a bit arrogant woman who wants to forge her path no matter the consequences, she believes that her dream world is the perfect one and she doesn't trust anyone to do this, only after she knows she lost she is willing to give power to someone (indirectly) by killing her. Also it would be pretty bad overall and anticlimactic if she was speaking of her dreams like that, caused an entire continent-wide war and suddenly she was sorry about that and wanted Dimitri or Byleth to become rulers of a united fodlan because she did bad things (things both of them have also done to an extent). 

Edited May 17, 2020 by SuperNova125

[starburst]

Jealous girls and rejected guys will always be numerous. The true tragedy of prom queens and popularity.

[eclipse]

When I played through CF, I felt like this was what RD should've been, on Daein's side.  A true insurrection against an established power, for freedom's sake.  Even if the methods employed were questionable.

[omegaxis1]

16 minutes ago, eclipse said:

When I played through CF, I felt like this was what RD should've been, on Daein's side.  A true insurrection against an established power, for freedom's sake.  Even if the methods employed were questionable.

Yeah, RD dropped the ball on that. Frankly, the odd thing is that no one complains about the fact that in RD, the Laguz Alliance started the war, while knowing full well that war would cause Lehran's Medallion to act up. 

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah, RD dropped the ball on that. Frankly, the odd thing is that no one complains about the fact that in RD, the Laguz Alliance started the war, while knowing full well that war would cause Lehran's Medallion to act up. 

Uhh, killing unarmed messenger seems like a reasonable thing to declare war over.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, ciphertul said:

Uhh, killing unarmed messenger seems like a reasonable thing to declare war over.

While knowing that you could cause a literal omnicide? They KNEW the danger of Lehran's Medallion.

[ciphertul]

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

While knowing that you could cause a literal omnicide? They KNEW the danger of Lehran's Medallion.

You also need to remember that they were responsible for the genocide of a species. That kind of hatred runs deep

[omegaxis1]

Just now, ciphertul said:

You also need to remember that they were responsible for the genocide of a species. That kind of hatred runs deep

And risk OMNICIDE.

That's literally the danger of Lehran's Medallion. 

In fact, Lehran's Medallion DID nearly break with the spirit of war. The RD cast were LUCKY that Ashera's Judgment is petrification, and not literal death of everyone. Then you would not see the Laguz Alliance's war for the sake of justice for the Serenes Forest Massacre to be so righteous anymore. 

 

[ciphertul]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

And risk OMNICIDE.

That's literally the danger of Lehran's Medallion. 

In fact, Lehran's Medallion DID nearly break with the spirit of war. The RD cast were LUCKY that Ashera's Judgment is petrification, and not literal death of everyone. Then you would not see the Laguz Alliance's war for the sake of justice for the Serenes Forest Massacre to be so righteous anymore. 

 

When you are blinded be rage and hatred, you don’t care. Ashera is no goddess, she shows no mercy. She is a fragment of the whole, there was no reason to punish everyone. Righteousness is like justice, everyone has there own definitions

[Troykv]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

And risk OMNICIDE.

That's literally the danger of Lehran's Medallion. 

In fact, Lehran's Medallion DID nearly break with the spirit of war. The RD cast were LUCKY that Ashera's Judgment is petrification, and not literal death of everyone. Then you would not see the Laguz Alliance's war for the sake of justice for the Serenes Forest Massacre to be so righteous anymore. 

 

It would be quite disturbing (but also amusing) if Ashera's judgement attack actually managed to kill all the weak ones... A world where only the strongest Laguz and the Branded could have survived besides Yune's protected ones.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Troykv

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, ciphertul said:

When you are blinded be rage and hatred, you don’t care. Ashera is no goddess, she shows no mercy. She is a fragment of the whole, there was no reason to punish everyone. Righteousness is like justice, everyone has there own definitions

You're dancing around the point. 

Had Ashera KILLED everyone, not petrify, then even when defeated, guess what? The dead would remain dead. 99% of of all life Tellius would be gone. Had that been the case, ask yourself if the Laguz Alliance's war for justice on the Serenes Massacre was worth it. Because the Laguz Alliance started a war, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives were lost by Ashera's Judgment, all because of the Laguz Alliance starting a war while KNOWING the risks. 

That's what you need to realize. 

Talking about justice and morality becomes irrelevant next to all those bodies piled up.

3 minutes ago, Troykv said:

It would be quite disturbing (but also amusing) if Ashera's judgement attack actually managed to kill all the weak ones... A world where only the strongest Laguz and the Branded could have survived besides Yune's protected ones.

No happy endings. Also, I doubt it was even the "strongest" when I hardly consider quite a few of the cast of RD to be under the concept of "strong" to have resisted the petrification. 

[ciphertul]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

You're dancing around the point. 

Had Ashera KILLED everyone, not petrify, then even when defeated, guess what? The dead would remain dead. 99% of of all life Tellius would be gone. Had that been the case, ask yourself if the Laguz Alliance's war for justice on the Serenes Massacre was worth it. Because the Laguz Alliance started a war, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives were lost by Ashera's Judgment, all because of the Laguz Alliance starting a war while KNOWING the risks. 

That's what you need to realize. 

Talking about justice and morality becomes irrelevant next to all those bodies piled up.

Do you not understand what you are saying yourself? 

Spoiler

The senate

Killed the Herons, knowing they could prevent The medallion from breaking. Then knowing the rage of the Laguz, provoking them into starting a war. The Laguz where lead on. They may not be innocent but the Laguz go off instinct not reason.

[Troykv]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

No happy endings. Also, I doubt it was even the "strongest" when I hardly consider quite a few of the cast of RD to be under the concept of "strong" to have resisted the petrification. 

The people outside of Yune's protection that survived the Judgement were:

• The people inside the Tower (the surviving Senators, which I imagine managed to bullshit their way into safety)
• The Branded (Amy and Stefan)
• Dheghinsea and his dragon guard.
• Caineghis and Giffca
• Other characters that is unsure if they ever managed to be in Yune's protection or not (the non-main playable characters)

But yeah, no happy endings.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Do you not understand what you are saying yourself? 

  Hide contents

The senate

Killed the Herons, knowing they could prevent The medallion from breaking. Then knowing the rage of the Laguz, provoking them into starting a war. The Laguz where lead on. They may not be innocent but the Laguz go off instinct not reason.

Okay, so basically you accept that the Laguz Alliance, in their anger, endangered all life for their own personal desire for justice. And had Ashera's Judgment not been petrification, but death beam, said war would NEVER have been worth it. 

You get it?

Ike and the Laguz Alliance were lucky that the plot demands a happy ending. It would easily have been an ending similar to Final Fantasy VI.

Frankly, I would not have had as much issue if the Laguz Alliance didn't know. The thing about knowledge is that it's to help you avoid problems in life. But the Laguz were idiotic enough to think that because they have Reyson and Leanne, they could contain the dark god and have their war. Turns out, that wasn't the case. 

9 minutes ago, Troykv said:

The people outside of Yune's protection that survived the Judgement were:

• The people inside the Tower (the surviving Senators, which I imagine managed to bullshit their way into safety)
• The Branded (Amy and Stefan)
• Dheghinsea and his dragon guard.
• Caineghis and Giffca
• Other characters that is unsure if they ever managed to be in Yune's protection or not (the non-main playable characters)

But yeah, no happy endings.

The Senators and people inside the tower were actually depetrified by Ashera to act as her army.

But there's also Tormod and his two Laguz buddies, and Izuka, Feral Ones, Bastian, and others that weren't anywhere near Yune, but had survived. And frankly, I wouldn't consider a few of those guys to be in the "strong" category. It feels like a copout, if anything.

[Troykv]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

The Senators and people inside the tower were actually depetrified by Ashera to act as her army.

But there's also Tormod and his two Laguz buddies, and Izuka, Feral Ones, Bastian, and others that weren't anywhere near Yune, but had survived. And frankly, I wouldn't consider a few of those guys to be in the "strong" category. It feels like a copout, if anything.

Oh thanks for the reminder, I actually forgot how was exactly the deal with the Senators and related, because there were also ones that were unlikely to be in the Tower (Numida and Valtome).

This are pretty much the ones that apply in the vague category, I can buy Muarim being strong enough to outstand the Judgement (though that is clearly a stretch), and maybe Izuka cheated death/petrification somehow (that freak...), but yeah, the only reason we have Tormod, Vika, Bastian, etc. is because of gameplay reasons.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Troykv

[JubileePhoenix]

I don't like dictators.