Why Edelgard von Hresvelg is the most hated girl?

[eclipse]

Just now, Ottservia said:

Not necessarily but I’m just one to prefer more nuanced and in-depth discussion. Like I said if you’re frame your opinion as an objective argument you should at least try and get your facts straight. People have different tastes and there’s nothing wrong with that. I just generally dislike it when people have to make stuff up to try and frame it as an objective critique when it’s not.

Those are the people that you shouldn't engage.  They probably aren't going to give you a fair shake, so why waste your breath on them?

[omegaxis1]

11 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Those are the people that you shouldn't engage.  They probably aren't going to give you a fair shake, so why waste your breath on them?

Yeah. Frankly, by this point, almost everyone already has a set mind about the lords, and would refuse to change their perspective. They'll even believe in any lie to demonize X and Y character and would not believe in anything else told to them because it doesn't fit their beliefs.

[eclipse]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah. Frankly, by this point, almost everyone already has a set mind about the lords, and would refuse to change their perspective. They'll even believe in any lie to demonize X and Y character and would not believe in anything else told to them because it doesn't fit their beliefs.

. . .if this is what you believe, then I think you're part of the problem. . .

"Difference of opinion" is perfectly valid.  Writing off the other side believing lies to demonize someone isn't.

[omegaxis1]

8 minutes ago, eclipse said:

. . .if this is what you believe, then I think you're part of the problem. . .

"Difference of opinion" is perfectly valid.  Writing off the other side believing lies to demonize someone isn't.

Oh no no, this is very much true. 

People STILL go around thinking that Edelgard was fed false information from the Agarthans. 

Or they twist what the interview says by saying that this confirms that Edelgard and the Empire is evil. And when you argue against it, they'll look for and use everything to deny it, or push their beliefs. 

I mean, people make VIDEOS that nitpicks Edelgard's endings, insisting that the nobility is still there, or that her system will fall. 

They are in no hurry to change their minds, that's for sure.

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Oh no no, this is very much true. 

People STILL go around thinking that Edelgard was fed false information from the Agarthans. 

Or they twist what the interview says by saying that this confirms that Edelgard and the Empire is evil. And when you argue against it, they'll look for and use everything to deny it, or push their beliefs. 

I mean, people make VIDEOS that nitpicks Edelgard's endings, insisting that the nobility is still there, or that her system will fall. 

They are in no hurry to change their minds, that's for sure.

Why are you giving those types of people the time of day?  I'd be just as worried if I saw someone making videos like that, too, but my answer would be to boycott the channel.

[JubileePhoenix]

This whole Edelgrad topic really is a mess. Why is it this character everyone decided to be so laser focused on? 

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

Why are you giving those types of people the time of day?  I'd be just as worried if I saw someone making videos like that, too, but my answer would be to boycott the channel.

That's just what I mean. You're basically saying to ignore it, but what I'm saying is that people aren't willing to change their minds once they have their opinions set. It's hard to change a belief once you believe that is the case. 

Just now, JubileePhoenix said:

This whole Edelgrad topic really is a mess. Why is it this character everyone decided to be so laser focused on? 

Controversial character that is actually thought provoking, where people argue about whether she's right/wrong, good/evil, etc. 

I mean, you called her a dictator, but she's about as much a dictator as any monarch ruler like Dimitri, Byleth, Claude (in Almyra), Marth, Garon, etc. Kind dictators are still dictators.

Edited May 20, 2020 by omegaxis1

[eclipse]

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

That's just what I mean. You're basically saying to ignore it, but what I'm saying is that people aren't willing to change their minds once they have their opinions set. It's hard to change a belief once you believe that is the case.

How would you like it if someone tried to change your mind by force?  Including things that they believed you were hand-waving/lying about?

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

How would you like it if someone tried to change your mind by force?  Including things that they believed you were hand-waving/lying about?

If I was lying or they proved I was, then I would apologize. 

I do change my mind if someone presents evidence. 

[Darkmoon6789]

43 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I guess that means we're doing something right.

But it also means that you'll need to tailor the discussion to the community. . .and if you're running into people who don't seem able to comprehend things like "nuance", then perhaps it's best NOT to discuss something so complex in such environments.  Over here, there's people who love/hate Edelgard for their own reasons, and I doubt any of them will hate you because of it.

More than just right, I think this board is the most insightful on the topic of fire emblem on the entire Internet. People here are really helpful.

I have also been able to gain a greater understanding and appreciation for the game because of the discussions here. It wasn't until I got to this site. I started to understand how much bollocks , I managed to absorb from other places. It wasn't until I actually finished 3 three out of 4 routes that I realised that a lot of what I had been told about certain paths were completely wrong.  The thing I have noticed on some other places, there are a lot of people who are straight up and dishonest there and will lie to further their position. This applies both to the detractors of Edelgard and some of her supporters as they will twist the truth and even straight up lie about events in the game to support their claims. I have not seen that here. 

52 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I feel like a distinction needs to be made here between simply disliking Edelgard and saying outright incorrect information to try and justify that dislike. I mean criticize all you want but at least get your facts straight when you do so. Also, personally I really don’t get criticizing a character for their flaws because a character’s flaws are what make them relatable and nuanced but that’s just me. People will dislike whatever they want I suppose 

Pretty much, it is very difficult for me to not want to correct someone when they present facts that are inaccurate. Still, if that is the biggest problem that is pretty good. I am used to worse. 

A character's flaws is definitely what makes them relatable, believe it or not, but Dimitri is actually one of my favourite characters in this entire game specifically because his Boar persona makes him a lot more interesting than he would have been otherwise. I wouldn't like Edelgard as much as I do if she wasn't flawed. My three favourite characters in order are Edelgard, Dimitri and Rhea.  All three of them are incredibly complex and have both good and bad aspects to them. 

[eclipse]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

If I was lying or they proved I was, then I would apologize. 

I do change my mind if someone presents evidence. 

What if you don't think you're lying.  Or that they're providing evidence that you think is wrong?

See, it's a tricky issue.  They may or may not be wrong, but is it really worth your time and mood to point it out?  Especially knowing that they are probably not going to change.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

What if you don't think you're lying.  Or that they're providing evidence that you think is wrong?

See, it's a tricky issue.  They may or may not be wrong, but is it really worth your time and mood to point it out?  Especially knowing that they are probably not going to change.

See, that's just it. I like evidence. I like presenting proof for my arguments, and showing them. If they do in kind, great.

But thing is, even if you present proof, some people would deny that and prefer something that works to their beliefs. 

[JubileePhoenix]

15 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

 

Controversial character that is actually thought provoking, where people argue about whether she's right/wrong, good/evil, etc. 

I mean, you called her a dictator, but she's about as much a dictator as any monarch ruler like Dimitri, Byleth, Claude (in Almyra), Marth, Garon, etc. Kind dictators are still dictators.

 

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

What if you don't think you're lying.  Or that they're providing evidence that you think is wrong?

See, it's a tricky issue.  They may or may not be wrong, but is it really worth your time and mood to point it out?  Especially knowing that they are probably not going to change.

Shes right. Even if i can show what makes a dictator in my eyes and what doesn't , and give you evidence, that would take weeks. I don't have that type of time. 

[eclipse]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

See, that's just it. I like evidence. I like presenting proof for my arguments, and showing them. If they do in kind, great.

But thing is, even if you present proof, some people would deny that and prefer something that works to their beliefs. 

Gee, it's not like it happens outside of video game forums, either~!

But that is the nature of humanity.  Some will draw their own conclusions, and would prefer to be right in their own mind instead of adjust their own opinions.  Those people aren't going to change, and it's not your job to do so.  So rather than try to argue against it (and possibly taking it out on everyone else who's reading it), just. . .accept that people won't always see things the way that you do, and it's perfectly okay when it comes to video game characters.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, JubileePhoenix said:

Shes right. Even if i can show what makes a dictator in my eyes and what doesn't , and give you evidence, that would take weeks. I don't have that type of time. 

Except the thing is, by definition, every lord becomes a dictator. A king that reigns supreme over the country is as much a dictator as an emperor that reigns supreme. Unless you are going to be able to present evidence in the game that shows that there's some form of checks and balances, which doesn't even exist as a concept, then no. By definition, every route ending has Fodlan be run by a dictator. 

The idea of trying to say that Edelgard is a dictator is a venomous attempt to cast hate onto her, since "dictator" is a term best associated with Hitler.

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

Gee, it's not like it happens outside of video game forums, either~!

But that is the nature of humanity.  Some will draw their own conclusions, and would prefer to be right in their own mind instead of adjust their own opinions.  Those people aren't going to change, and it's not your job to do so.  So rather than try to argue against it (and possibly taking it out on everyone else who's reading it), just. . .accept that people won't always see things the way that you do, and it's perfectly okay when it comes to video game characters.

You... basically just proved my point. 

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

You... basically just proved my point. 

Yeah.  So will you gain anything useful by arguing against someone who's made up their mind?

[omegaxis1]

Just now, eclipse said:

Yeah.  So will you gain anything useful by arguing against someone who's made up their mind?

I'm so confused right now.

[JubileePhoenix]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

Yeah.  So will you gain anything useful by arguing against someone who's made up their mind?

 

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

I'm so confused right now.

Yup you are right eclipse there isn't. Have a good life, omegaxis1

[omegaxis1]

Just now, JubileePhoenix said:

 

Yup you are right eclipse there isn't. Have a good life, omegaxis1

Tata. 

[Blackstarskywalker]

45 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Gee, it's not like it happens outside of video game forums, either~!

But that is the nature of humanity.  Some will draw their own conclusions, and would prefer to be right in their own mind instead of adjust their own opinions.  Those people aren't going to change, and it's not your job to do so.  So rather than try to argue against it (and possibly taking it out on everyone else who's reading it), just. . .accept that people won't always see things the way that you do, and it's perfectly okay when it comes to video game characters.

A forum is not for debate? to argue and counter-argue? .

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

I think the basic point is that they're just video game characters. Not anything worth wasting your time, effort, and breath trying to convince someone otherwise on when their minds won't be changed. Serenes is great in that it fosters pretty healthy discussion, but sometimes you have to stop and think if your defense of a character has gone too far. You don't have to try and explain away or justify every decision a character makes, you don't have to defend them from every person who doesn't like them as much as you do or even just straight up dislikes them. That sort of fanatical defense is actually more likely to cause people to start to dislike a character they otherwise would have liked or been neutral on.

Edelgard is a well written character, but not everyone's views will align with your own and that's something you're just going to have to learn to accept and move on with. It doesn't make either of you wrong, it just means you view things differently.

[Darkmoon6789]

I am relatively sure that the dictator have a objective definition. And I am also pretty sure definition makes pretty much any absolute ruler a dictator by that definition. Definitions of words aren't as much opinion as it is fact.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/dictator

So by that definition, Edelgard is technically a dictator, but so is Dimitri, and pretty much every King or Emperor ever. Anyone who inherits power from their bloodline is a dictator, by definition. As they are not elected by the people and wield absolute power. 

I am not saying that she isn't the dictator, but that it is a pretty silly thing to criticise when it comes to medieval fantasy worlds like this at it is pretty much the status quo. 

The problem is that when people use the word dictator as a derogatory, but the truth is that a dictator can be both good and bad depending on the person. We don't favour that government today, but people of the past used to have a different mindset.

I don't actually expect to change anyone's mind, but I will speak mine regardless. I just wanted to make it clear that I have no expectations of everyone agreeing with me, that would be pretty silly. 

[eclipse]

8 minutes ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

A forum is not for debate? to argue and counter-argue? .

Pick your battles wisely, lest I have to do my job.

15 minutes ago, JubileePhoenix said:

 

Yup you are right eclipse there isn't. Have a good life, omegaxis1

Exhibit A.

Edited May 20, 2020 by eclipse

[Darkmoon6789]

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Pick your battles wisely, lest I have to do my job.

Exhibit A.

I just like discussions because I think arguments are quite fun to participate in.

I am also a huge devils advocate and I take great pleasure in pointing out a good aspects of villainous characters and villainous aspects of good characters. Edelgard is actually easy mode in comparison to a lot of other characters I have defended in the past in other franchises. She is barely even a villain, her role is more complex than that. It is also quite fun to find aspects of holier than thou heroes and make arguments for why they are in actually as good a person as people assume they are. Granted, no character in three houses matches that description as no one is really depicted as being objectively in the right.

I could even put up a decent defence for the Agarthans, even if that is obviously going to have some holes in it due to the difficulty of defending those people. But hey, I have used the following orders argument in defence of Kronya just for the heck of it.

[JubileePhoenix]

9 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

I am relatively sure that the dictator have a objective definition. And I am also pretty sure definition makes pretty much any absolute ruler a dictator by that definition. Definitions of words aren't as much opinion as it is fact.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/dictator

So by that definition, Edelgard is technically a dictator, but so is Dimitri, and pretty much every King or Emperor ever. Anyone who inherits power from their bloodline is a dictator, by definition. As they are not elected by the people and wield absolute power. 

I am not saying that she isn't the dictator, but that it is a pretty silly thing to criticise when it comes to medieval fantasy worlds like this at it is pretty much the status quo. 

The problem is that when people use the word dictator as a derogatory, but the truth is that a dictator can be both good and bad depending on the person. We don't favour that government today, but people of the past used to have a different mindset.

I don't actually expect to change anyone's mind, but I will speak mine regardless. I just wanted to make it clear that I have no expectations of everyone agreeing with me, that would be pretty silly. 

Yeah, you right, I should have saw it in a different view. That the actions of Edelgard to me seems more unjust then someone like Roy. To me at least.