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I don't know about that. Why I posting this thread?, or I'm going to be in trouble. I don't wanted posting this, but, since, is the last straw....... Why Edelgard is the most hated Fire Emblem girl. Female Byleth is much loved than Edelgard. What's wrong with this young woman. I don't want to feeling so sad.

Edited by IkaMusumeYiyaRoxie
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many people, myself included, don't like her methods, her intentions of creating a meritocracy, the fact she plunged a whole continent into a war, the fact she thought the war as necessary... the list keeps going on and on

Edited by darkblade2814

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1. She is not the most hated girl in FE. She is the most controversial, just like Camillia.

2. Female Byleth is not more well-beloved, as shown in CYL. Despite having the personality of wet cardboard, Female Byleth is mainly popular because she is so shippable with the lords. Despite having the same lines/story role, Male Byleth is nowhere near Female Byleth’s “popularity”, so it’s just not about their characterization. 

3. You are entitled to like who you like, just as other people can dislike who they want. Don’t let others get to you. While I personally have a lot of issues with her, there are plenty who like her. Everyone’s preferences can be justified; the difference in people’s reception of Edelgard is dependent on their values and worldview. Going into the specifics of her actions just opens a can of worms that will inevitably lead you to be more stressed. If you really want to know, just look up the millions of posts about hating/loving Edelgard.

Examples of debates: Does her actions reflect ones of a revolutionary or those of a tyrant? Does her fight ultimately reflect a fight for human freedom or militaristic conquest and rule? Did the ends justify the means in her war? Could she have done more to avoid the war? Was she justified to side with the indisputable villains of the game (TWSITD), whilst her primary target in the CF campaign is someone who can either been seen as a victim of circumstance or a perpetuator of societal stagnancy (Rhea)? Was her dreams of meritocracy good or just a gateway to nepotism?

Despite what some fans/haters will debate until their faces are blue - all of these debates are open to contention, and there is no one right answer. Besides, there are 4 different endings - some people will see her war as a means to an end, whereas others will look at the other endings and argue it as avoidable. Edelgard’s portrayal in CF isn’t even like that of the other routes either; she acts differently with Byleth around. 

You aren’t wrong to like her, just like others aren’t wrong to dislike/disagree with her. 

Edited by MessengerIris

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Edelgard really isn't; echoing Messengeriris, she's controversial; she's very extreme, which leaves little room for "Middle ground opinions" on Edelgard, and those who do have middle ground opinions aren't as vocal as the people in the other camps.

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Saying Edelgard is the most hated girl is objectively wrong. Worst girls don't easily win Choose Your Legends at their first go. 

Edelgard has a rather vocal bunch of critics and an equally vocal bunch of fans. Though in comparison to Camilla Edelgard seems to have come off pretty easy as far as her critics are concerned. Some people really don't like Edelgard for what she says and does, but she didn't garner the absolute disgust that Camilla got of her critics. 

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Going through extreme lengths that could've been solved in more peaceful ways because the plot demands she hold the stupid ball.

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IMO she's more controversial than hated. People hate her as much they love her, and usually for pretty much the exact same reasons (her methods and ideology)

16 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Going through extreme lengths that could've been solved in more peaceful ways because the plot demands she hold the stupid ball.

Gotta disagree here. If anything, I think the writers did a wonderful job in making sure conflict was inevitable. In order to defuse it, you need to get past: 1. the very akward situation Edelgard is in resource/information-wise, 2. Edelgard & Rhea's character flaws and 3. Edelgard & Rhea's ideologies.

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That's something I'm still trying to figure out. Sexism? Maybe. Politics? Eh, haven't really worked out the sides. The color red? Very possible.

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She isn't. She's probably the most loved character in Three Houses in all honesty. If she was the most hated, she wouldn't have been the number 1 spot on the CYL event.

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Edelgard is not hated as a character, but she's a major antagonist in all routes except one due to her actions throughout the story. She's not going to get universal acclaim for getting in the protagonist's path in violent ways. But I find the discourse around her character generally healthy, acknowledging she's a complex character as well as garnering her fair share of fans (myself included). 

Byleth is the protagonist walking along a predetermined path and void of a personality, so there isn't much reason to dislike them - or feel strongly about, really. They're a vessel for the player. 

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I'm seeing a lot of flawed takes when it comes to popularity and hate. It is possible for someone to be both popular and the most hated character. For example, it can be possible for 50% to like her and 50% to dislike her making her both extremely popular but also extremely disliked simultaneously. 

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I figure Monica/Korya should be the most hated FE Three Houses girl. Her use of Edelgard's knife, I think, is a substantial breaking point for Dimitri in his storyline. I would not be entirely surprised if Edelgard distrusts Dimitri because of his breakdown in his own route. Even if you dislike Edelgard extremely, it seems to me that Korya is much worse, at least on a personal level. Orson has terrible taste in women.

I don't know if Edelgard's war was all in all justified or smart or whatever, but she started it. I think that's the best reason people have for hating her.

Rhea seems to get hate as well, and her mismanagement of Fodlan seems to be the best reason why Edelgard's war is justified (Rhea does not even seem to be effectively combating the problems that Edelgard herself brings to the table). I'm currently working on that S rank Silver Snow support but I'm not sure that hate is undeserved. Edelgard seems to be kinder to her enemies off the battlefield, at least, than Rhea is. See executions of church officials by Rhea VS Edelgard leaving Rhea alive and in seemingly good health in Claude's route. Or, look at how Edelgard responds to Byleth not joining her VS Rhea responding to Byleth not joining her - Edelgard is sad to face the professor, but fights for what she believes in, but for Rhea, it's just something along the lines of "Byleth failed me."

Edelgard is happy that Byleth is alive at the end of her route, while Rhea is happy that she has one of her mother's bones in the opening cutscene. I don't know how Edelgard made it through what she did, but considering that she did, it's no big wonder that she has it together as much as she does.

The thing that makes me doubt Edelgard is not necessarily all that fair, because it's incredibly vague. She talks about how "I alone shall rule" as the hegemon husk in the end of Dimitri's route. On the one hand, I guess it's pretty typical that there should be someone at the top who has the final say on anything. But I (like Dimitri, who was troubled by the comment) was wondering if her primary motive for seeking power was really self-preservation. She was made by TWSITD to be a ruler, and if she had not pursued that course, she might not have survived at all. That might be a pretty typical reason to seek power, however. I kind of think that Edelgard was raised to need power to survive. I'm hoping some of the people who paid more attention to the game can respond to this idea, but if you have countless times already, you don't need to spend the time. I know Edelgard talks about her dream for Fodlan, but realistically she would have had a much better time achieving some form of that dream working with Claude rather than as a corpse (and Claude says repeatedly they don't have to fight). Incidentally, I also don't know if Claude really cares that much about his dreams for Fodlan either. He could have joined with Dimitri in Dimitri's route, but instead he runs off (he doesn't even really defend the city he's in? all of the few troops he has are around the harbor where he's waiting?). I'm kind of convinced that the rulers are going towards rulership because that's the path they were put on, not because they really want to rule. Maybe the reason Rhea is so controlling about her rule is because she isn't as insightful about how difficult it is to rule properly (though like I am saying about Edelgard, I think she also is afraid to step down). She makes a great anti-nuke though, so props for that.

Even if I am right, I think what Edelgard did is...fair for who she is, because I can't imagine asking someone to sacrifice their right to fight for their life and existence and independence after everything she has been through. To live based on trust when what you've known is a completely cutthroat existence. I don't feel that way about Claude right now, and Dimitri doesn't seem to be very ambitious (not saying he's great ruler material, though maybe he is towards the end, just that he doesn't seem as interested in power as the other two house leaders or Rhea). And I think the reason Edelgard asks to die on Claude's route is largely because she's afraid to live life as someone who doesn't have a great deal of power.

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1 hour ago, Original Johan Liebert said:

I figure Monica/Korya should be the most hated FE Three Houses girl. Her use of Edelgard's knife, I think, is a substantial breaking point for Dimitri in his storyline.

Was she? Wasn't Monica used a TWISTD dagger?

Manuela comments on Jeralt's autopsy comments that Jeralt was killed by a type of weapon she never saw before.

Quote

  t was a dagger, but I know enough to know it wasn't an ordinary dagger. It wasn't made of iron or steel because... Well, because whatever it was, the wound it left wasn't normal. Who could make a blade like that, do you figure?

The dagger Dimitri gave to Edelgard was a very ordinary straight blade dagger.

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I'll believe this when I suspend people for their dislike of Edelgard.  Measured in months.

Just because your favorite character isn't a fan favorite of everyone doesn't mean they're the most hated.

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I hate Edelgard. Her values are something I will never agree or condone whether as a human being or as a ruler. But I'll leave it at that.

I dislike Dimitri as well. Only Byleth and Claude get a pass with Claude passing with flying colors. Claude is someone whom I respect a great deal.

Politics wise I'm a liberal. I have a very hard time imagining someone from my side of the spectrum liking Edelgard. Her tragedy doesn't make her cause just or right for that matter.

But that's just my opinion.

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I am also someone close to liberal ideas. And I perfectly share many values and ideas with Edelgard (individual liberties, meritocracy, free knowledge, technological development). The endings of she (in her route) are compatible to my way of thinking

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I mean, she was meant to be controversial

 

Her using demonic beasts alone and endorsed TWISTD further human experiments (even in CF) are enough for many to dislike her*

It makes her very hypocritical when she just told you earlier how much she suffers from the crest,

yet she's willing to project even worse suffering to other humans to just achieve her dream,

ironically, just like TWISTD "created" her for their own goal.

 

*One of my biggest criticism about CF is how the path completely ignored, almost like white washing the fact empire uses demonic beasts and other morally questionable weapon and experiment.

We saw empires using them both preskip and all other routes post skip, you would assume in CF Edelgard would give some defense or explanation of using such terrible weapons.

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14 hours ago, Moltz23 said:

IMO she's more controversial than hated. People hate her as much they love her, and usually for pretty much the exact same reasons (her methods and ideology)

Gotta disagree here. If anything, I think the writers did a wonderful job in making sure conflict was inevitable. In order to defuse it, you need to get past: 1. the very akward situation Edelgard is in resource/information-wise, 2. Edelgard & Rhea's character flaws and 3. Edelgard & Rhea's ideologies.

She knew about crest stuff that she could've shared with Dimitri and Claude in order to face the church's grasp in the continent, but instead chose to trample everyone in her way.

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14 minutes ago, Rapier said:

She knew about crest stuff that she could've shared with Dimitri and Claude in order to face the church's grasp in the continent, but instead chose to trample everyone in her way.

I don't believe that Claude or Dimitri would have gone with it. Edelgard had already allied herself with the Agarthans and Dimitri at that point believed Edelgard to be behind the Tragedy of Duscur, and Claude seems like the type of person that would go along with any scheme Edelgard has, then take the power from her once Rhea was out of the equation. This isn't a "if we had just communicated, everything would have been good!" like Fates. The characters really are ideologically opposed.

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36 minutes ago, Rapier said:

She knew about crest stuff that she could've shared with Dimitri and Claude in order to face the church's grasp in the continent, but instead chose to trample everyone in her way.

Doesn't she kinda explain herself? She and Hubert talk about having spread a manifesto to all nobles in Fodlan before the assault on the Monastery. The non crazy version of Dimitri probably got one and still sided with the church.

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Doesn't she kinda explain herself? She and Hubert talk about having spread a manifesto to all nobles in Fodlan before the assault on the Monastery. The non crazy version of Dimitri probably got one and still sided with the church.

The problem is, besides accusing church misuse the donation, her manifesto also implies Kingdom and Alliances are illegitimate and illegal governments, basically demanding unconditional surrender of all other nations, making war between Empire and all others inevitable.

Quote

Edelgard: The leaders of the church have misused its creed to fulfill their true desire - to rule the world. They have fooled the people of Fódlan. Long ago, they divided the Empire to create a Kingdom, and then, divided that Kingdom to create an Alliance. They did all of this to make the masses bicker amongst themselves. They caused instability in order to reinforce their own authority. They gathered gold and lived in extravagance. How? By preying on the devotion of those who wished for the goddess's salvation! Those corrupt hypocrites cannot lead Fódlan to true peace! Their foul belief system must be torn asunder so that true wisdom may finally prevail! And so, I have decided-- by order of the Adrestian Emperor, Edelgard von Hresvelg-- the Empire hereby declares war on the Church of Seiros!
----


In Imperial Year 1181, the New Adrestian Emperor, Edelgard von Hresvelg, led a strategic assault against the monastery at Garreg Mach. Though her own losses were great, her foes had no choice but to surrender. Archbishop Rhea commanded the Knights of Seiros, leading from the front lines against the Imperial Army. But amidst the chaos of battle, she vanished, and her whereabouts remain unknown. With this single attack, the Adrestian Empire officially launched its offensive against the Holy Kingdom of Faerghus and the Leicester Alliance. The unification of Fódlan has begun.

 

Edited by Timlugia

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15 hours ago, Timlugia said:

The problem is, besides accusing church misuse the donation, her manifesto also implies Kingdom and Alliances are illegitimate and illegal governments, basically demanding unconditional surrender of all other nations, making war between Empire and all others inevitable.

 

Your quote isn't her manifesto, which only appears in CF. It's her declaration of war in all non-CF routes. We never learn the exact content of her manifesto, but we learn, that half of the alliance wants to switch to her side, after receiving it. The highlighted part of the narration you cite, is also in CF, but there it is immediately contradicted by the Alliance still "feigning neutrality" at the end of the Timeskip and by Hubert directly stating, that there was no fighting on Alliance territory before Chapter 13.

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Based on how many likes my YouTube comments about Edelgard usually gets, she can't be that hated. I think she is primarily controversial because she represents the concept, many people have trouble accepting, that in many cases to achieve the greater good. You need to dirty your hands, by the very nature of the role someone cannot perform well as a monarch if you are unwilling to do what must be done. This is the entire point made in the book Machiavelli, which is also frequently misunderstood by popular culture. The idea of a morally flawless ruler is not realistic, it is a pipedream and a fantasy, they can only exist in fiction, because people who prioritise never getting their hands dirty over the needs of their kingdom will never be effective rulers. I think people's opinion on Edelgard is very much dependent on her new on the ends justify the means. The truth of the matter is that the truth about reality is not always comforting, but I think it is important to accept the truth regardless. 

I am very much a liberal and I still support Edelgard wholeheartedly. This is because I think one of the only ways to secure freedom is to use the power of a strong government to ensure it. Sometimes people doesn't realise that a strong leadership can give rise not only to tyranny, but a leader can also use said power in order to protect the rights of the people. I have mentioned this idea before, but for me, human rights are not up for a vote, they are nonnegotiable and people should be given freedom whenever they want it or not. Sometimes people can be brainwashed by institutions into believing that for example, women should be second-class citizens, even many women serve a role oppressing their own kind. The people not wanting what is best for them is a legitimate problem. Edelgard is someone who wants power not to oppress the people, but to use it to liberate them. The control she seeks in order to accomplish his dream may get her painted as a tyrant, but I believe she is the exact opposite.

Also, Edelgard doesn't as much condone the experiments and atrocities committed by the Agarthans as she is just powerless to stop them at the moment, at least without major risk to herself and her cause. I don't know why people think she really had that much control over them, considering what happened at Arianrhod in Crimson Flower. I see Edelgard's empire and the Agarthans as two completely different factions and each are responsible for their own actions, but Edelgard is not responsible for the actions of the Agarthans, they act on their own accord. She doesn't condone them, quite the opposite, but she can't do anything about them.

Speaking of Kronya, I can almost guarantee that the dagger she used was Athame, you know, her own legendary weapon, which she also uses in heroes. Also, am I the only one who actually feels some level of sympathy for Kronya? Sure, she did kill Jeralt and seem sadistic in nature. But when I see the fear she displays when she realise that her life means nothing to Solon with more than willing to sacrifice her to power his spell, it makes me realise that even someone like her is ultimately still human. Looking at how the Agarthans are portrayed and their mythological inspiration, it is very likely that they are indeed a cult and that their members are literally brainwashed into their supremacist ideology. Kronya was raised to be an assassin under the command of Thales and the other spiritual leaders of the Agarthans, like the rest of her people. She was brainwashed into thinking of surface dwellers as nothing more than beasts, not even truly human. Which is how they justify both their experiments and atrocities against the surface dwellers. Kronya calling surface dwellers vermin seems to support this idea, so there is little wonder she acts the way she does, but it also seems like she expects other Agarthans to treat each other better and she ultimately feels betrayed that her life wasn't any more valuable to her superiors than the supposed vermin.

If I can feel sympathy for someone like Kronya, there should be little wonder why I don't have any trouble feeling sympathetic for Edelgard, who is a lot better a person with more redeeming qualities. Sometimes I feel like people, so obsessed with getting justice for a person's victims that they completely suspend with empathy and become just as bad as the people they condemn. 

To kill because of necessity in order to protect others or make the world a better place is one thing, but to desire to inflict suffering on someone else to satisfy your own desires is quite another, made even worse if someone legitimately believes that someone can ever deserve suffering. These kind of people reduced people down to their crime, thieves, murderers, bandits, warmongers, making them less than human in the rise in order to justify inflicting pain and suffering, which is the exact same thing that the Agarthans are doing with considering the surface dwellers to be nothing but vermin. Which is why I think that it is actually Dimitri that has the most horrifying dark side of any character in this game, his boar personality, frequently reducing imperial soldiers, bandits and theives to some humans in his mind in order to justify torturing and killing them in a savage fashion. Fortunately, Dimitri realised how far he had fallen and eventually became a better person. My own convictions prevent me from holding his past against him as I would be a completed hypocrite for desiring him to suffer for his crimes. Same with Edelgard, the fact that she is as good a ruler as she is in the Crimson Flower ending means that I will forgive her of any potential wrongdoings in the past, especially because she never had ill intent.

To quote the movie Camelot and Linkara: "revenge, the most worthless of causes"

Edelgard's cause is far from as worthless as vengeance, she has the most noble goal´ anyone could ever aspire to, freedom 

By the way, discussions on this site is usually quite simple and I am for that, but most of the Internet aren't that lucky, and I have seen some real nightmare scenarios when it comes to discussions about Edelgard elsewhere. I thank everyone here for remaining so civil in comparison.

Edited by Darkmoon6789

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As someone who likes Arvis is Edelgard at first a very interesting character, but she has one disturbing flaw in my opinion, she lies too much. In CF is this shown, where she is lying to all of her allies, except Hubert and Byleth. She seems to try to manipulate them and to not care about telling the truth. All of them have proven their loyalty and still she is not honest. This for me pretty bad and a heavy drawback, if she wouldn't be such a liar, she could one of my favorite characters.

Spoiler

I am talking about the destruction of Arianrhod, Edelgard tells her allies that this was done by the church. She lies to motivate the Black Eagle Strike Force and to prevent a loss of moral, considering it was done by those who slithers in the dark.

 

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