Why Edelgard von Hresvelg is the most hated girl?

[Darkmoon6789]

2 hours ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

I think it is more honest to say "I don't like Edelgard because I don't like her methods" than to say "I don't like Edelgard because I think she had other alternatives to achieve her goals". Here several colleagues have masterfully explained the little margin that Edelgard had to fulfill her objectives. Either it was war, or she could go to a summer house to eat sweets and leave things as it were

It should still be pointed out that even if she does go to a summerhouse and eat sweets and just leave things be. There would still be a war, she just wouldn't be personally involved with it.

I guess the follow-up question is if inaction by her part would make her equally responsible for the events that follow, as participating directly in starting the war. In my opinion it would be like letting the world  burn around you just because you are unwilling to take personal responsibility for what happens with your people. I wouldn't say she would be less responsible for the upcoming conflict at all, just that in one case she is responsible through neglect and another she is responsible through direct action.

[omegaxis1]

13 minutes ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

It should still be pointed out that even if she does go to a summerhouse and eat sweets and just leave things be. There would still be a war, she just wouldn't be personally involved with it.

I guess the follow-up question is if inaction by her part would make her equally responsible for the events that follow, as participating directly in starting the war. In my opinion it would be like letting the world  burn around you just because you are unwilling to take personal responsibility for what happens with your people. I wouldn't say she would be less responsible for the upcoming conflict at all, just that in one case she is responsible through neglect and another she is responsible through direct action.

If anything, she would be judged and criticized for being an incompetent ruler that abandoned her people.

[Darkmoon6789]

57 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

If anything, she would be judged and criticized for being an incompetent ruler that abandoned her people.

I guess it comes with the territory, with being a monarch, regardless of what you do or don't do, someone will hate you for it. Your actions will be controversial no matter what when you are a politician.

You know, Edelgard really means a lot to me as a character, there is just something about her that really resonated with me. Enough so that this character has helped me handle quite a bit of suffering due to medical issues. So, she is special to me because of how much her example have helped me

[omegaxis1]

3 hours ago, Darkmoon6789 said:

I guess it comes with the territory, with being a monarch, regardless of what you do or don't do, someone will hate you for it. Your actions will be controversial no matter what when you are a politician.

You know, Edelgard really means a lot to me as a character, there is just something about her that really resonated with me. Enough so that this character has helped me handle quite a bit of suffering due to medical issues. So, she is special to me because of how much her example have helped me

That's the burden of being a leader. Frankly, Fire Emblem really dresses up these perfect leaders that does no wrong quite often, when there are many people that will not like how things are. 

Like mentioned, I don't see Dimitri actually having the mark of a true leader. I can't see him as someone that is really capable, despite how the ending portray him as this great king. But some try to think that he is the best type of leader because he "suffered alongside his people", or that because he lost his path, went astray, and got redeemed, that makes him perfect. 

It's this idea where people thing that the ideal leader is someone that suffers alongside his people, but there are various leaders, and there's no such thing as a perfect leader.

This is a quote that actually indicates it, from Dragalia Life, but a princess that governs her own land. 

Quote

Chelle: Do you think the poor and desolate wish to see the rich and powerful brought low? To see their social betters eke out a meager living in the muck as they do?

Cleo: You cannot possibly—

Chelle: No! The masses do not want a leader who suffers alongside them—they want a leader who pulls them OUT of suffering! The duty of a monarch is not to understand the trials and tribulations of her people— it is to lift them up so they might enjoy the same splendid life of ease that she does! The course you are on will not quiet the suffering of a single soul, dear brother. It will only make that suffering worse. If you would call yourself a king, you need at least understand that much.

 

[SimplyUnknown]

On 5/22/2020 at 4:24 PM, omegaxis1 said:

That's the burden of being a leader. Frankly, Fire Emblem really dresses up these perfect leaders that does no wrong quite often, when there are many people that will not like how things are. 

Like mentioned, I don't see Dimitri actually having the mark of a true leader. I can't see him as someone that is really capable, despite how the ending portray him as this great king. But some try to think that he is the best type of leader because he "suffered alongside his people", or that because he lost his path, went astray, and got redeemed, that makes him perfect. 

It's this idea where people thing that the ideal leader is someone that suffers alongside his people, but there are various leaders, and there's no such thing as a perfect leader.

This is a quote that actually indicates it, from Dragalia Life, but a princess that governs her own land. 

 

I think this is an interesting comment for a couple of reasons. For one, I'm curious about what your definition of a 'true leader' is in this situation. But my main reason is that I don't see why Dimitri not being a 'true leader' would get in the way of him being a great king. For me at least, there really isn't a problem and I think it's because of how the game portrays both Dimitri and Edelgard on their chosen paths.

Dimitri and Edelgard are not like Byleth or Claude. They are both broken people in a lot of ways and that is part of what makes them compelling. But the thing I find the most interesting is that fact that the only times either one comes into power and becomes a great leader is when Byleth chooses their route. When they are both guaranteed a support system that Byleth provides along with the students they bring to their side. Edelgard has the Black Eagle Strike Force on her route and Dimitri has the Blue Lions on his, even if you don't bother recruiting anyone else on those paths.

On the paths where one or both of them fall, they usually end up with one guaranteed subordinate in the forms of Dedue and Hubert. The two people who would follow their leaders to the ends of the earth and who Byleth cannot poach to another house. On their own paths, however, they have other forms of support who do question them, in the forms of Ferdinand and Felix for certain, and potentially other members like Ingrid or Dorothea. Not to mention their trust in Byleth who can stand up to them, though moreso on the Blue Lion's path imo. A leader is not an island, and a true leader, in my opinion, knows how to listen to others and take their feedback. To listen to another perspective and find a better solution. Dimitri is only able to do that in the Blue Lions path where he's not so fixated on revenge and Edelgard is only able to hang onto her empathy on the Crimson Flower path.

I guess what Three Houses proves to me is that it's not a single person who rules a country, but many people. Because if you take away that support system and leave one person standing at the top, who is to keep them from falling?

[Darkmoon6789]

2 hours ago, SimplyUnknown said:

I think this is an interesting comment for a couple of reasons. For one, I'm curious about what your definition of a 'true leader' is in this situation. But my main reason is that I don't see why Dimitri not being a 'true leader' would get in the way of him being a great king. For me at least, there really isn't a problem and I think it's because of how the game portrays both Dimitri and Edelgard on their chosen paths.

Dimitri and Edelgard are not like Byleth or Claude. They are both broken people in a lot of ways and that is part of what makes them compelling. But the thing I find the most interesting is that fact that the only times either one comes into power and becomes a great leader is when Byleth chooses their route. When they are both guaranteed a support system that Byleth provides along with the students they bring to their side. Edelgard has the Black Eagle Strike Force on her route and Dimitri has the Blue Lions on his, even if you don't bother recruiting anyone else on those paths.

On the paths where one or both of them fall, they usually end up with one guaranteed subordinate in the forms of Dedue and Hubert. The two people who would follow their leaders to the ends of the earth and who Byleth cannot poach to another house. On their own paths, however, they have other forms of support who do question them, in the forms of Ferdinand and Felix for certain, and potentially other members like Ingrid or Dorothea. Not to mention their trust in Byleth who can stand up to them, though moreso on the Blue Lion's path imo. A leader is not an island, and a true leader, in my opinion, knows how to listen to others and take their feedback. To listen to another perspective and find a better solution. Dimitri is only able to do that in the Blue Lions path where he's not so fixated on revenge and Edelgard is only able to hang onto her empathy on the Crimson Flower path.

I guess what Three Houses proves to me is that it's not a single person who rules a country, but many people. Because if you take away that support system and leave one person standing at the top, who is to keep them from falling?

That is a very intelligent comment, one of the reasons I would say that Edelgard becomes such a great leader in crimson flower is because she listens to the advice of her companions and takes what they say in their supports to heart. People like Ferdinand, Byleth, Manuella and Dorothea helps Edelgard be a better leader than she would have ever been on her own. Even in an absolute monarchy. Leadership is still a team effort as the advisors to the emperor are also just as important as the Emperor herself. 

The thing is, the reason why Edelgard in non-crimson flower routes shuts down her capacity for empathy and becomes, in her own words, an Ice Queen is because she basically needs to in order to be able to carry the burden of all the death and bloodshed she has to bear the responsibility for during the war. Edelgard is normally a very empathetic person, so her primary defence mechanism to be able to bare what she feels must be done is to shut down that side of her entirely. This side of her is reawakened by Byleth, which leads to a less ruthless Edelgard during crimson flower, but it also has the side-effect of Edelgard feeling a lot more of the weight of all of those who perished in the war. But because Byleth is with her, she is able to bare it without shutting down her emotional side entirely. I do believe Edelgard is very likely to be suffering from some pretty heavy guilt later in life from all that death and destruction. Even if she still likely believed she did was to must be done. But Byleth will be there for her to help her deal with that.

One of the reasons I find Boar Dimitri so frustrating is because he flat out refuses to listen to anyone. As soon as they contradict his delusions in any way. Fortunately, he eventually snaps out of it with the help of Byleth. As you say, he will be a good thing because of his support group. My primary worry would be for him to fall into insanity again at some point in the future, it is mentioned, even at the very end, but he still hears the voices. But maybe with Byleth and the rest he will have the strength to ignore them. Without Byleth, he would be an absolutely awful King. In fact, I would rather have insane Azula as Firelord than insane Dimitri as King. This is because Azula for the most part, still sticks to banishment, regardless of how bad her mental state while Dimitri at his worst kills and tortures with impunity and enjoys every second of it. 

It is a very good thing that this isn't the person he is anymore at the end of Azure Moon. One reason I do prefer Edelgard to Dimitri, even at their best, is that Edelgard was never as bad as Dimitri at her worst. Edelgard might be cold at her worst, but she was never sadistic

[Crysta]

Dimitri doesn't really get shaken out of his frothing murdercrush until Rodrigue dies. He is the least capable leader of the three because he has the weakest will and you can't rely on the multiple mentors, childhood friends, or even Byleth to pick him up when he's at his absolute lowest.

 

[Etrurian emperor]

Dimitri does have the lowest amount of success compared to the other lord. Edelgard is always the Emperor and she always topples a nation regardless of the route. Claude is always the Alliance leader. Meanwhile in two routes Dimitri is a crazy hobo who very much isn't the leader of Faerghus, in Crimson Flower he's an incredibly passive participant in the war and Azure Moon has him not really finding out about the crazy mole people. 

[Graal]

Because she was the antagonist for a lot of people + "grrrr she's so popular!"

Social Media has a tendency to destroy nuanced thought as well. And make people take their fiction too seriously. So rather than, say, evaluate Edelgard with respect to her role in something not actually real they just "hate her". And this sentiment is reinforced by fandom factions as well. 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Graal