Jump to content
Ottservia

I really don’t like the term “Mary Sue”

Recommended Posts

I personally like the term because it's a refference to a quite entertaining Star Trek fanfic. I'm probably biased as Star Trek is one of my favorite franchises, even with the recent things that have been going on. The thing is, even if we change the name of the character trope, the trip won't go away. Its a very easy trap for an inexperienced writer to fall into, as most Mary Sues are self inserts of some fashion. The problem there is that most people are unwilling to give these self inserts flaws. Fiction is supposed to be an escape, right? And recognizing your own flaws takes a lot of character. The problem with making a flawless character is they are almost never believable. On the topic of Mary Sues in culture, one that has been thrown around over and over again is Rey from the Disney Star Wars movies. I actually quite liked Rey in her first movie. Yeah she was a little overpowered and quick to win, but I was sure they would have a not reveal that she was secretly a super powerful being. Anakin was the same in the phantom menace. It was the second movie, in showing that she had no powerful parents or anything like that, that ruined it for me. She was just "that poweful", for no good reason. That was, for me, the moment she became a Mary Sue. Although, I still like Rey much more that another famous Mary Sue, or more, a Gary Stue. Wesley Crushed from Star Trek TNG. Good God is this boy annoying. He's somehow a prodigy, and the son of the lady the captain has the hots for. He hardly ever fails, at anything, and the show almost seams to create new problems just so he can solve them. Even though he was intended to be a Gary Stue in reference to the fanfic, he still makes my eyes bleed whenever he's on screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, The Roger The Paladin said:

I'd say his pig-headedness, and initial refusal to be king because he doesn't want the responsibility both run counter to him being full blown. He still definitely is a selfish, brash, reckless, arrogant bastard. Though I could be reading too much into his attitude. Either way, he does develop over the game to accept the responsibility of the throne... a progression a Mary Sue/Gary Stu shouldn't make... because progressing the character would be admitting to a flaw... and that defeats the whole purpose of being a Mary Sue/Gary Stu

Thing is, having a personality problem is an issue if it's actually properly called out and it actually has a moment where you realize that you screwed up because of that. despite how people try to go about that Ephraim is the reason Renais fell and such, it's never properly called out in a manner that really works, so it might as well go over people's heads or that it just doesn't matter. 

Eirika's flaws are CONSTANTLY exploited and shown to get her into trouble constantly. Ephraim's are never actually exploited that it would be presented as any form of actual flaw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually like the term Mary Sue, it's way to subjective, but I believe there is one very important factor that should be taken in consideration when labeling someone as a Mary Sue.

How they work in the narrative? You can have a "perfect" character, but if that perfection actually works in the context of the world, then people won't mind it (like say... Superman, he's a perfect character in a way, which it makes a bit boring more than anything, but isn't something that will actively annoy the readers/viewers).

If a character bends the narrative in ways that doesn't make any sense, and only does so for the sake of making that character look better (I like my nonsense when is done for the sake of comedy or to do some over the top stuff

In that case we have a potential Mary Sue, now we need to check how prevalent these "anomalities" are.

Edited by Troykv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/23/2020 at 12:00 PM, MiaMain said:

I think Micaiah is sort of a gray area, because her whole character is basically about how perfect she is. She does suck in-game though, so it kind of evens out. She would have been better suited as an antagonist for Sanaki/Ike from the beginning. She also makes poor/evil decisions, so she isn't a true Mary Sue.

Contradiction. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh, I suppose I've never really thought about it. Even if a character is considered a "Mary Sue" I usually like them anyway. For example, I love Roy, but I will openly state he has very little flaws. I do openly disagree that Micaiah is a Mary Sue, as well as Cordelia. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Contradiction. 

"Gray Area" Her personality screams Mary Sue, but she has a few actions that contradict that.

Edited by MiaMain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate this word as well. When I like a story I'll usually make lots of research on the internet so I can know every bit of it, the characters, the universe... I always try to build a good amount of knowledge on said-story. But I guess most people don't do that and tend to watch stories "briefly". Which means they'll sometimes say something wrong about it and me, being the hardcore fan I am, I'll try to correct them. I've found out that the term "Mary Sue" is often used by people who want to criticize some strong character when then didn't get the character and/or the story at all. It's easy, just say "uuuh it's a mary sue" and it becomes a bad character all of a sudden I guess ?? 🤮 People don't take enough time to appreciate stories and character building...

By the way, I think strong characters are very useful plot-wise when used correctly. A character's strenght is just one of many plot-devices you can use. There is nothing fundamentally wrong about that

Edited by Lord-Phalus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the term is used properly, I find it useful as its calling out a character for being an author's blessed self insert gifted in all manner... but it seems to almost always be used improperly...  

On 5/24/2020 at 6:57 PM, MiaMain said:

"Gray Area" Her personality screams Mary Sue, but she has a few actions that contradict that.

I'd argue that its more than a few. Its quite often.

Early on, she heals a child, passes out, and then because of her actions even more people are killed.
Her compassion leads to Daein's capital being set on fire and many of the people killed.
Edward aids in a genocidal war against the Laguz because of his faith in her.
To protect her kingdom, she commits war crimes (as far as the game's narrative is concerned).
There is also the fact that she NEEDS help to do anything. A good deal of her events revolve around her having to escape, be it the opening cut scene, a back alley, a prison, or forest. Plus, with how punishing that game is, victory isn't handed to you on a platter thanks to who she is.
In the end, rather than Micaiah, its often Yune who aids everyone.

...not that she doesn't remind me of the lead female in a reverse harem anime... but that's not a Mary Sue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mary Sue is so casual to me i can see no other way to describe characters that get everything of nothing and have "wood" personality's.

 

On 4/21/2020 at 11:04 PM, eclipse said:

 

I guess we could also call them "Corrins".

 Also, i'm going to use this all the time now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm the opposite. I don't like Marty Stu as a term because I think it's unnecessary and needlessly contrarian. Mary Sue refers to a specific trend of a character with too many positives with no substantial flaws. It isn't a gendered term and doesn't need a male counterpart. A badly written, overly powerful, overly virtuous male character is still a Mary Sue.

Edited by Fabulously Olivier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I'm the opposite. I don't like Marty Stu as a term because I think it's unnecessary and needlessly contrarian. Mary Sue refers to a specific trend of a character with too many positives with no substantial flaws. It isn't a gendered term and doesn't need a male counterpart. A badly written, overly powerful, overly virtuous male character is still a Mary Sue.

I more or or less think the same way. If you wanna say a character is poorly you shouldn’t have to call them a mary sue. Like I feel like if I have to explain what I mean when I ise the term then I kight as well not use the term

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple issues I see with the term:

First is it's really vague in definition, I think due to just being named after a character.  People generally have an idea of what a "Mary Sue" is supposed to be, but there's no clear line for what it actually is.

Second is it may not be a gendered term, but it is a notably female name (I'm sure there are probably a few guys named "Mary", just like there are girls named "Kevin", but it's very obviously meant to be a female name).  The issue here is that I believe it makes female characters more subject to accusations of being "Mary Sues" than male characters.  Sensible people would obviously be equal opportunity critics, but sensible people also wouldn't use the term recklessly.  A lot of the time I just see it thrown around by people who just don't like female leads being strong in any capacity - sometimes it is warranted, sometimes it isn't.

And even when sensible people use it, I still see a notable slant towards its use with female characters versus male characters - when talking about male characters, I usually see them talk about them being just "perfect in every way".  For example, people accuse Alm in SoV and Ephraim of being without notable weaknesses/flaws, and never use the term, yet will call a character like Rey from Star Wars a "Mary Sue" for suffering from basically the same problem - although the Sequel Trilogy is a whole can of worms to sift through, not gonna lie.  What a word is said to mean in a little dictionary doesn't matter nearly as much as how it's actually used, and I don't see an equal distribution between male and female "Mary Sues", even though there sure as hell are plenty of male characters who could fit that bill just as well as the female characters accused of being such.

I just hate it as a term because it's a term that subconsciously invokes biased use and reactions out of people in a way that only sets up discussions on the subject matter to derail horribly.  We'd be better off just explaining our thoughts out instead of just saying "Mary Sue" - yes, it might take longer to explain what you mean, but at least you can have a sensible goddamn conversation instead of going off on a tangent about feminism or SJWs or whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

A couple issues I see with the term:

First is it's really vague in definition, I think due to just being named after a character.  People generally have an idea of what a "Mary Sue" is supposed to be, but there's no clear line for what it actually is.

Second is it may not be a gendered term, but it is a notably female name (I'm sure there are probably a few guys named "Mary", just like there are girls named "Kevin", but it's very obviously meant to be a female name).  The issue here is that I believe it makes female characters more subject to accusations of being "Mary Sues" than male characters.  Sensible people would obviously be equal opportunity critics, but sensible people also wouldn't use the term recklessly.  A lot of the time I just see it thrown around by people who just don't like female leads being strong in any capacity - sometimes it is warranted, sometimes it isn't.

And even when sensible people use it, I still see a notable slant towards its use with female characters versus male characters - when talking about male characters, I usually see them talk about them being just "perfect in every way".  For example, people accuse Alm in SoV and Ephraim of being without notable weaknesses/flaws, and never use the term, yet will call a character like Rey from Star Wars a "Mary Sue" for suffering from basically the same problem - although the Sequel Trilogy is a whole can of worms to sift through, not gonna lie.  What a word is said to mean in a little dictionary doesn't matter nearly as much as how it's actually used, and I don't see an equal distribution between male and female "Mary Sues", even though there sure as hell are plenty of male characters who could fit that bill just as well as the female characters accused of being such.

I just hate it as a term because it's a term that subconsciously invokes biased use and reactions out of people in a way that only sets up discussions on the subject matter to derail horribly.  We'd be better off just explaining our thoughts out instead of just saying "Mary Sue" - yes, it might take longer to explain what you mean, but at least you can have a sensible goddamn conversation instead of going off on a tangent about feminism or SJWs or whatever.

I thought Gary Stu was the male version of the Mary Sue term.

Also maybe it is just me but I do say that Ephraim and Alm are Gary Stus.

Ephraim takes all the army of Grado takes a castle and survives an impossible situation, being completely surrounded and outgunned, out of his butt and with two cavaliers.

And Alm, for all SoV calls that you should always try to take the middle path and how commoners are as worthy as nobles the story always seems to put Alm on the right or at least as better oriented than Celica.

"We don't need gods" "We need to fight for Zofia" or how Alm is the prince of half of Valentia, that kind of stuf.

Ps: In my honest opinion Celica gets the shaft in SoV.

Edited by Silafante

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't find "Sue" a helpful term anymore.  Partly because there are plenty of characters who pull of ridiculous nonsense in-universe or who have the universe magically align frequently in their favour that we don't typically consider to be a Sue (*cough*Sir Galahad*cough*Luke Skywalker*cough*) but also, practically-speaking, it's been co-opted by a bunch of far-right dudes who just want a word to bash female characters with and that's just not my scene like a million times over.  Those sorts of people are one of the big reasons why I just do not engage with the Star Wars fandom anymore.

I feel like it's a term that's mostly lost its meaning/been perverted by a bunch of misogynists, so personally I'm content to let it just fall by the wayside and start encouraging people to elaborate on what they truly mean when they say, "X character is a Mary Sue."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Samven said:

I don't find "Sue" a helpful term anymore.  Partly because there are plenty of characters who pull of ridiculous nonsense in-universe or who have the universe magically align frequently in their favour that we don't typically consider to be a Sue (*cough*Sir Galahad*cough*Luke Skywalker*cough*) but also, practically-speaking, it's been co-opted by a bunch of far-right dudes who just want a word to bash female characters with and that's just not my scene like a million times over.  Those sorts of people are one of the big reasons why I just do not engage with the Star Wars fandom anymore.

I feel like it's a term that's mostly lost its meaning/been perverted by a bunch of misogynists, so personally I'm content to let it just fall by the wayside and start encouraging people to elaborate on what they truly mean when they say, "X character is a Mary Sue."

 

I really struggle to see this as a political issue. The majority of people don't call just any character a Mary Sue, just poorly written ones that fit the trope. For instance, nobody calls Lara Croft or Ellen Ripley Mary Sues, because they are female characters that trained and fought for what they wanted while still failing on several occasions, the same can be said for Sarah Conner, Alita, Princess Leah, and many others, all strong female characters who have good character development. Whenever I've seen the term directed at any character, male or female, it is when they are a character who is practically given the ability to solve every problem, never has to train, struggle or fail at anything, and everyone around them immediatly becones their friend or ally. A perfect example of this is Luke Vs. Phantom Menace Anakin. Luke spends three movies training, and both times he faces vader he fails. He loses his hand for goodness sake. On top of that, Luke loses everyone he cares about only in his first movie. His aunt and uncle, Ben, even Biggs, but he still pulls through. On the other hand, Anakin is naturally already powerful, is liked by Qui-gon and Padme immediately, wins the podrace, and destroys the command station, without any training or experience, just because, "he's the chosen one". Now that, is a Mary Sue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't say that the idea of a Mary Sue was inherently political, I said that the term gets bandied about a lot by alt-righters.

If you poke your head into YouTube, you'll find a lot of men screaming "Mary Sue" at Rey pretty much because she's instinctively gifted with the Force or that Disney is trying to telegraph through her that Luke Skywalker is bad because of reasons or something along those lines.

Now, do I think that that means everyone who uses the term is trying to make a political statement?  No.  But it does mean that, in my experience, the term's basically become a bit of a cudgel to bludgeon any modern female character who gets close to "Doing a wokeness" (whatever that means this week).

And if you've not seen such chaps... well, honestly, I envy you.  They're not fun to listen to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/8/2020 at 6:45 PM, Ertrick36 said:

A couple issues I see with the term:

First is it's really vague in definition, I think due to just being named after a character.  People generally have an idea of what a "Mary Sue" is supposed to be, but there's no clear line for what it actually is.

Second is it may not be a gendered term, but it is a notably female name (I'm sure there are probably a few guys named "Mary", just like there are girls named "Kevin", but it's very obviously meant to be a female name).  The issue here is that I believe it makes female characters more subject to accusations of being "Mary Sues" than male characters.  Sensible people would obviously be equal opportunity critics, but sensible people also wouldn't use the term recklessly.  A lot of the time I just see it thrown around by people who just don't like female leads being strong in any capacity - sometimes it is warranted, sometimes it isn't.

And even when sensible people use it, I still see a notable slant towards its use with female characters versus male characters - when talking about male characters, I usually see them talk about them being just "perfect in every way".  For example, people accuse Alm in SoV and Ephraim of being without notable weaknesses/flaws, and never use the term, yet will call a character like Rey from Star Wars a "Mary Sue" for suffering from basically the same problem - although the Sequel Trilogy is a whole can of worms to sift through, not gonna lie.  What a word is said to mean in a little dictionary doesn't matter nearly as much as how it's actually used, and I don't see an equal distribution between male and female "Mary Sues", even though there sure as hell are plenty of male characters who could fit that bill just as well as the female characters accused of being such.

I just hate it as a term because it's a term that subconsciously invokes biased use and reactions out of people in a way that only sets up discussions on the subject matter to derail horribly.  We'd be better off just explaining our thoughts out instead of just saying "Mary Sue" - yes, it might take longer to explain what you mean, but at least you can have a sensible goddamn conversation instead of going off on a tangent about feminism or SJWs or whatever.

I strongly agree with all of this. I read through the first page of this thread ready to post something like it, so I'm glad I was beaten to it! While I do think there's value in discussing characters who are over-loved by the narrative and/or pander to the player as being a too-worshiped self-insert, I don't see much value in having such a gendered term for those discussions.

And since we're on a Fire Emblem board, it's worth emphasizing: the fact that the term was historically attached to Micaiah, despite her not having nearly as many supposed "Mary Sue" traits as some male leads in the series, kinda points to how problematic its usage is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Sir Gerwald of Vallora said:

On the other hand, Anakin is naturally already powerful, is liked by Qui-gon and Padme immediately, wins the podrace, and destroys the command station, without any training or experience, just because, "he's the chosen one". Now that, is a Mary Sue.

There's one thing stopping Anakin from being a Mary Sue

Darth Vader Yells Noooooo! - YouTubeIf you have a whole movie trilogy about how your many, many personal flaws turn you into a super villain then your probably not a Mary Sue. And sure, kid Anakin isn't a prick or as selfish as adult Anakin but we all know where he's heading. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

There's one thing stopping Anakin from being a Mary Sue

Darth Vader Yells Noooooo! - YouTubeIf you have a whole movie trilogy about how your many, many personal flaws turn you into a super villain then your probably not a Mary Sue. And sure, kid Anakin isn't a prick or as selfish as adult Anakin but we all know where he's heading. 

That's why I clarified Phantom Menace Anakin. I feel Attack of the Clones Anakin is fine, and Revenge of the Sith Anakin is actually really good. The character of kid Anakin is still a good enough example of a Mary Sue, even if by the end of thr story he's completely different.

Spoiler

And I mostly just didnt want to use Rey, as I think that charcater analysis is really overdone.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

most people who hate the term mary sue is because people like mary sue characters and are too insecure to admit it in fear of being roasted by their homies 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since I last posted in this thread, I've done a bit of research on the definition of a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. While I would say that labeling any character with such a title is typically done without much thought, this video defines it in a way that I think is very well-considered and well-explained. https://youtu.be/e7eCBS-8lOU

By this definition, I would say that characters like Kris, Robin, Corrin fit the definition of a Mary Sue far more than other FE characters who have been given that label like Micaiah. Their respective games' plots revolve around them far more than other FE games like Radiant Dawn's do.

To be clear, I don't necessarily agree with the opinions of this content creator on Micaiah specifically. But I thought that the definition they provided was a very good and thoughtful way of thinking about characters who may be considered Mary Sues or Gary Stus.

Edited by twilitfalchion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've lived long enough to understand that the less intelligent will ruin everything. Although the term Mary Sue has been butchered, that won't stop me from using it.
Just like with the word 'cringe'. It's overused and that's unfortunate but there's really no better word other then describing something as 'gritting your teeth' or 'second hand embarrassment'.

I'm not gonna let a bunch of simpletons change my vocabulary.

On 8/25/2020 at 2:00 AM, LightingChaos said:

most people who hate the term mary sue is because people like mary sue characters and are too insecure to admit it in fear of being roasted by their homies 

Very true, I can think of a few friends that seem to hate the term but also coincidentally like the FE Fates games

On 7/9/2020 at 12:19 PM, Samven said:

I didn't say that the idea of a Mary Sue was inherently political, I said that the term gets bandied about a lot by alt-righters.

If you poke your head into YouTube, you'll find a lot of men screaming "Mary Sue" at Rey pretty much because she's instinctively gifted with the Force or that Disney is trying to telegraph through her that Luke Skywalker is bad because of reasons or something along those lines.

Now, do I think that that means everyone who uses the term is trying to make a political statement?  No.  But it does mean that, in my experience, the term's basically become a bit of a cudgel to bludgeon any modern female character who gets close to "Doing a wokeness" (whatever that means this week).

And if you've not seen such chaps... well, honestly, I envy you.  They're not fun to listen to.

 

Enough with the *cough cough nudge nudge* give us a name! I think you're referring to E;R yeah? He talks about Mary Sues and Star Wars a lot. His videos are actually really good and he speaks the truth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/12/2020 at 11:47 AM, twilitfalchion said:

By this definition, I would say that characters like Kris, Robin, Corrin fit the definition of a Mary Sue far more than other FE characters who have been given that label like Micaiah. Their respective games' plots revolve around them far more than other FE games like Radiant Dawn's do.

On 7/10/2020 at 8:59 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

And since we're on a Fire Emblem board, it's worth emphasizing: the fact that the term was historically attached to Micaiah, despite her not having nearly as many supposed "Mary Sue" traits as some male leads in the series, kinda points to how problematic its usage is.

I still don't understand how anyone could call Micaiah a Mary Sue without any trace of sarcasm. She's a protagonist that got overshadowed in her own game; that's almost the opposite of a Mary Sue.

 

On 7/8/2020 at 9:45 PM, Ertrick36 said:

A couple issues I see with the term:

First is it's really vague in definition, I think due to just being named after a character.  People generally have an idea of what a "Mary Sue" is supposed to be, but there's no clear line for what it actually is.

Second is it may not be a gendered term, but it is a notably female name (I'm sure there are probably a few guys named "Mary", just like there are girls named "Kevin", but it's very obviously meant to be a female name).  The issue here is that I believe it makes female characters more subject to accusations of being "Mary Sues" than male characters.  Sensible people would obviously be equal opportunity critics, but sensible people also wouldn't use the term recklessly.  A lot of the time I just see it thrown around by people who just don't like female leads being strong in any capacity - sometimes it is warranted, sometimes it isn't.

And even when sensible people use it, I still see a notable slant towards its use with female characters versus male characters - when talking about male characters, I usually see them talk about them being just "perfect in every way".  For example, people accuse Alm in SoV and Ephraim of being without notable weaknesses/flaws, and never use the term, yet will call a character like Rey from Star Wars a "Mary Sue" for suffering from basically the same problem - although the Sequel Trilogy is a whole can of worms to sift through, not gonna lie.  What a word is said to mean in a little dictionary doesn't matter nearly as much as how it's actually used, and I don't see an equal distribution between male and female "Mary Sues", even though there sure as hell are plenty of male characters who could fit that bill just as well as the female characters accused of being such.

I just hate it as a term because it's a term that subconsciously invokes biased use and reactions out of people in a way that only sets up discussions on the subject matter to derail horribly.  We'd be better off just explaining our thoughts out instead of just saying "Mary Sue" - yes, it might take longer to explain what you mean, but at least you can have a sensible goddamn conversation instead of going off on a tangent about feminism or SJWs or whatever.

I can agree about the vague definition; that's the reason I try to be very specific about what I mean when I say Mary Sue. You can see one of my earlier posts in this thread for the definition that I use (and that I'm pretty sure is what the term is supposed to refer to). 

The "more subject to accusations" thing is the reason why male Mary Sue characters are often referred to as "Gary Stu" in order to make sure the name gets used just as often for both male and female characters. 

I accuse Alm of being a Gary Stu all the time. I've received some disagreement from people for this, but no more than I get from saying a female character is a Mary Sue (mainly because I go out of my way to explain what I mean by that; making it clear that I do not use the label lightly or recklessly), and yes; Rey from the Star Wars sequels is one character I have referred to as a Mary Sue. 

 

On 7/9/2020 at 12:19 PM, Samven said:

I don't find "Sue" a helpful term anymore.  Partly because there are plenty of characters who pull of ridiculous nonsense in-universe or who have the universe magically align frequently in their favour that we don't typically consider to be a Sue (*cough*Sir Galahad*cough*Luke Skywalker*cough*) but also, practically-speaking, it's been co-opted by a bunch of far-right dudes who just want a word to bash female characters with and that's just not my scene like a million times over.  Those sorts of people are one of the big reasons why I just do not engage with the Star Wars fandom anymore.

I feel like it's a term that's mostly lost its meaning/been perverted by a bunch of misogynists, so personally I'm content to let it just fall by the wayside and start encouraging people to elaborate on what they truly mean when they say, "X character is a Mary Sue."

Sir Galahad is definitely a Sue, but I don't know what you mean when talking about Luke. Luke struggles a lot, the plot doesn't get absorbed by him, the universe certainly doesn't magically align with him: he loses his first fight with Vader for just one example, he has almost none of the indicators of being a Sue. 

I dislike it when terms get co-opted like that as well. It is sickening. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/22/2020 at 1:55 PM, twilitfalchion said:

Isn't Cordelia kind of a Mary Sue as well? She's a character who is naturally excellent at everything without working hard for it (unlike Severa or Caeldori), too humble to recognize her abilities, generally beloved by most people (in the game), and a perfectionist to a fault (not to mention fairly attractive). Her only real "flaws" are that she idealized Chrom (who she barely ever spoke to) into the object of her affections, but was too shy and afraid to voice her feelings, and that she has a strong inferiority complex. I'm not saying for sure whether she is or isn't, but in my mind she fits enough of the characteristics of a Mary Sue to be considered one.

I don't like Cordelia very much, but if she fails to get her boy and the perfectionism gets in her way she is not a Mary Sue. Also she has family problems with her daughter that points her flaws, so she doesn't fit the bill. Corrin is also not a Mary Sue or Gary Stu in Birthright and Conquest. They are a Sue in Revelation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...