Why I cannot fully sympathize with Rhea

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Crysta said:

But, like, maybe she shouldn't be the Pope, either.

I 100% agree with this. She really shouldn't have remained there. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I am pretty sure that it was stated that Flayn's been ASLEEP the entire time from expending her power from the War of Heroes, and only woke up recently, being when she and Seteth arrived in Garreg Mach. Hence why she indicates how it's been a LONG time since she's done X or Y things. 

Assuming that is accurate (Byleth only slept for five years after a similar event knocked him out), Flayn is not the only Nabatean in Fodlan. I'm saying what happened to her is symptomatic of something that has been happening often across history. 

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Glennstavos said:

Assuming that is accurate (Byleth only slept for five years after a similar event knocked him out), Flayn is not the only Nabatean in Fodlan. I'm saying what happened to her is symptomatic of something that has been happening often across history. 

What "happens often" exactly? You're not making any sense. No, this hasn't been happening across history. There hasn't ever been any Nabatean hunts. Nothing of the sort has been indicated to have happened. Where are you basing this information from? The Saints weren't even being hunted either. I feel you are basing this on misinformation or misinterpretations. Cause everything you said didn't actually happen.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

What "happens often" exactly? You're not making any sense. No, this hasn't been happening across history. There hasn't ever been any Nabatean hunts. Nothing of the sort has been indicated to have happened. Where are you basing this information from? The Saints weren't even being hunted either. I feel you are basing this on misinformation or misinterpretations. Cause everything you said didn't actually happen.

Yeah, I get the feeling we've played two different games. My mistake.

[haarhaarhaar]

It's true that there isn't evidence of there being racism in society at large directed at the Nabateans since the death of Nemesis (like, Rhea is one of the leaders of the continent, and she covers up much of the existence of the Nabateans with myth and fake history). I think @Glennstavos's point is more that Rhea and co. are all scared, and rightfully so, because there's a group of mass murderers and their worshippers sharpening knives with Nabatean names on them. The Agarthans are the KKK with a different colour scheme, so it isn't unreasonable to suggest they may have done something else to team Rhea or individual Nabateans in the last 1000 years. But even if they haven't, that's only secondary to the fact that they are plotting to eradicate their species and Rhea knows they exist. Add a shadowy racist conspiracy targeted at you and the people you love to anyone's plate and they're gonna be pretty stressed about it

[Grimleal Uncle]

Oh boy what a topic to stumble into! I'm not a member here really, but I've been browsing some other FE communities since Reddit is a tad....oppressive I feel.

Anyways, um kinda agree and disagree. Like it's unfair to tell someone to get over their grief. People who experience trauma cope with it in different ways. And as we see with Rhea, she handles it in a pretty unhealthy way.

Does that make her unsympathetic? Im not sure. Shes had a thousand+ years I suppose to heal, or at least channel her grief towards a more productive catalyst. Her want to hit the rewind button to the good ol days being her driving force behind all actions is selfish and is most of the reason Fodlan is in the troublesome situation that it is.

But at the exact same time, can you fairly blame her for not moving on? While fixating on what happened and never truly letting go isnt necessarily healthy or ideal, we see very real people wrestle with this every day. And Rhea is TRYING at least to push her idea of what peace is. While we can discuss the ramifications of her actions, or whether or not they're actually good, the good intent was there. Despite her being one really bad day away from what we see her become in CF. 

So i dont necessarily think the argument is, can we forgive Rhea or not. But rather I'd say, is someone this compromised and unstable someone who should have been in a position of power for as long as they did? She admits herself she was never qualified to.

Rheas really tragic to me. I like her alot, yet dont really excuse her actions or say I could abide by them. 

[omegaxis1]

Honestly, I think there's a little too much emphasis that she KNOWS the Agarthans are out there. How much knowledge that she has abut them is incredibly questionable. The game never indicates her knowledge about the Agarthans to be so profound or much indication. She's aware there's some force, but it's really not so much that there's this erratic fear for them. The only one that she ever indicates to show real emotions toward is in regards to Nemesis. 

[Azz]

I think it's find it difficult to sympathise with Rhea considering some of her actions, namely on CF. However, it is extremely tone deaf and unsympathetic to say that because she had so many years to recover from her severe trauma (emphasis on severe considering her trauma is the genocide of her people, the murder of her mother and having their bones be made into weapons, their hearts made into crest stones and the blood drank to give people crests). Everyone reacts to trauma differently (as shown by the other main protags who all deal with their own trauma), and no one has to heal or recover from it regardless of how many years it may have been, yes including a 1000 of years.

[omegaxis1]

9 minutes ago, Azz said:

I think it's find it difficult to sympathise with Rhea considering some of her actions, namely on CF. However, it is extremely tone deaf and unsympathetic to say that because she had so many years to recover from her severe trauma (emphasis on severe considering her trauma is the genocide of her people, the murder of her mother and having their bones be made into weapons, their hearts made into crest stones and the blood drank to give people crests). Everyone reacts to trauma differently (as shown by the other main protags who all deal with their own trauma), and no one has to heal or recover from it regardless of how many years it may have been, yes including a 1000 of years.

You know, for someone that survived a genocide, why did she do nothing for the people of Duscur, who suffered a genocide themselves? I always found it odd that she took no personal issue with what Faerghus did to Duscur. 

[Blackstarskywalker]

Well, 5 years that she was a prisoner if it was enough for her to "reconsider" and realize that she was wrong. So yes, it is true that some trauma can be overcome over time.

[Azz]

2 minutes ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

Well, 5 years that she was a prisoner if it was enough for her to "reconsider" and realize that she was wrong. So yes, it is true that some trauma can be overcome over time.

What you have to consider in this situation however is that in the time of the beginning of the game and her captivity, the thing she wanted the most, her mother’s rebirth occurred with Byleth which is obviously going to greatly assist in the healing process. And even then, we see that Rhea is still affected by said trauma on CF route. Also I said that no one has to overcome trauma regardless of time, not that trauma cannot be overcome.

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You know, for someone that survived a genocide, why did she do nothing for the people of Duscur, who suffered a genocide themselves? I always found it odd that she took no personal issue with what Faerghus did to Duscur. 

The thing with is that it’s not really a fault of Rhea’s character, it’s more so the fault of the writers not exploring in from Rhea’s POV (which is kind of the issue of most of this game’s plot, in that plot points aren’t explored enough). And even then, in the route where the tragedy is discussed most, AM, Rhea is entirely absent so it’s not like she is able to discuss it.

[SigurdVII]

1 hour ago, Crysta said:

The Agarthans are Rhea's mortal enemies for a good reason and I would not be dumb enough to tell her to get over it.

But, like, maybe she shouldn't be the Pope, either.

The Agarthans hate Rhea because her people ruled over humanity as gods and drove them underground (check the dev interview if you don't believe me). Nobody is arguing that their desire for revenge didn't corrupt them. Same thing with Rhea. The game is filled to the grim with people who have Inigo Montoya-esque revenge complexes for a variety of reasons. None of them are in the right for abusing their power in exercising them. 

[Grimleal Uncle]

6 minutes ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

Well, 5 years that she was a prisoner if it was enough for her to "reconsider" and realize that she was wrong. So yes, it is true that some trauma can be overcome over time.

Ya tbh I think the peculiar combo here is she isnt over it in 1000 years, but then 5 years in prison and losing everything she built up IS enough time to reflect and be at least more over it. 

I think its partially owed to the mindset that maybe she didnt want to move on on a subconscious level? Like that might come off a awkward and I'll try to reword if so. 

Like we see she has tried quite a few times in different ways to bring her mom back. And is trying to leave fodlan in a state that will be welcoming to her return first and foremost. So, maybe it's less she couldn't heal, and moreso she didnt want to? Why accept what happened when you can undo what happened instead?

Poor Rhea though. She only really is able to have her moment of reflection and acceptance once her castle of secrets falls on top of her. And even then she only learns to forgive and live for herself in a single ending

[Fire Emblem Fan]

6 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

I'm sure most that know me is aware that I'm a major fan of Edelgard.

There you go. There's the answer. That's why you can't fully sympathize with Rhea.

[omegaxis1]

8 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

There you go. There's the answer. That's why you can't fully sympathize with Rhea.

I'm gonna be blunt. 

That's an VERY dumb remark to make. Seriously.

[Grimleal Uncle]

15 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

There you go. There's the answer. That's why you can't fully sympathize with Rhea.

Strikes me as a statement that's looking to shut down a convo rather than try to have one.

 

Plus it's possible to like both. Life isnt binary 

[Fire Emblem Fan]

58 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I'm gonna be blunt. 

That's an VERY dumb remark to make. Seriously.

The dumber remark is seriously trying to push "get over it" as a reason. Seriously.

52 minutes ago, Grimleal Uncle said:

Strikes me as a statement that's looking to shut down a convo rather than try to have one.

Not much convo to have with the argument being pushed. It's an unhealthy and reductive argument.

[omegaxis1]

6 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

The dumber remark is seriously trying to push "get over it" as a reason. Seriously.

I love how I never once said to "get over it" but that's how you try to push it as. I guess "try to move on" means "get over it", huh?

[Crysta]

1 hour ago, SigurdVII said:

The Agarthans hate Rhea because her people ruled over humanity as gods and drove them underground (check the dev interview if you don't believe me). Nobody is arguing that their desire for revenge didn't corrupt them. Same thing with Rhea. The game is filled to the grim with people who have Inigo Montoya-esque revenge complexes for a variety of reasons. None of them are in the right for abusing their power in exercising them. 

I admire individuals who can let go of spite after being traumatized and significantly wronged - to offer forgiveness and not let it plague you further.

I have not met many such individuals, and I don't count myself among them. 

[Fire Emblem Fan]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

I love how I never once said to "get over it" but that's how you try to push it as. I guess "try to move on" means "get over it", huh?

Gee, it's almost like I'm the tenth (figuratively) person here who took it that way. To quote an earlier post in this very topic, this isn't a matter of "well let it go" ("get over it"/"try to move on"/what have you).  Because if you want to see how hard it is. . .let go of this argument.

[Blackstarskywalker]

4 hours ago, Crysta said:

I admire individuals who can let go of spite after being traumatized and significantly wronged - to offer forgiveness and not let it plague you further.

I have not met many such individuals, and I don't count myself among them. 

It is not about forgiveness. In fact it is okay if a person can never forgive something. What is wrong is living with hatred, since it affects mental health

[Crysta]

1 minute ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

It is not about forgiveness. In fact it is okay if a person can never forgive something. What is wrong is living with hatred, since it affects mental health

Don't think I'd not hate someone who killed my mom, either, but sure.

[Blackstarskywalker]

1 hour ago, Crysta said:

Don't think I'd not hate someone who killed my mom, either, but sure.

If you let that hatred control you and influence your life, it is most likely to bring you problems.

[Crysta]

10 minutes ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

If you let that hatred control you and influence your life, it is most likely to bring you problems.

I wouldn't want her to be the pope because it's capable of influencing her decision-making skills in a negative way.

But do you not make irrational decisions ever and are in a perpetual state of zen or something? Because this can be said of any vaguely negative emotion or habit.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Crysta

[omegaxis1]

4 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Gee, it's almost like I'm the tenth (figuratively) person here who took it that way. To quote an earlier post in this very topic, this isn't a matter of "well let it go" ("get over it"/"try to move on"/what have you).  Because if you want to see how hard it is. . .let go of this argument.

Yeah, except nothing about what you said had anything relevant and contributed to nothing.