Why I cannot fully sympathize with Rhea

[HK Motendra]

8 hours ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

Well, 5 years that she was a prisoner if it was enough for her to "reconsider" and realize that she was wrong. So yes, it is true that some trauma can be overcome over time.

8 hours ago, Grimleal Uncle said:

Ya tbh I think the peculiar combo here is she isnt over it in 1000 years, but then 5 years in prison and losing everything she built up IS enough time to reflect and be at least more over it. 

Well, there is also to consider that at that point, she actually has the time to consider it, given that she's no longer the pope in that situation. That, or, how she always had high hopes for Byleth to the point of entrusting the church to them, indicating that she might have already known that she wasn't cut out for the job, but lacked a suitable successor to take up the position. Aside from Byleth, who has the literal heart of the Goddess and her consciousness within them, who else could she realistically trust to handle such a job?

[Blackstarskywalker]

40 minutes ago, Motendra said:

Well, there is also to consider that at that point, she actually has the time to consider it, given that she's no longer the pope in that situation. That, or, how she always had high hopes for Byleth to the point of entrusting the church to them, indicating that she might have already known that she wasn't cut out for the job, but lacked a suitable successor to take up the position. Aside from Byleth, who has the literal heart of the Goddess and her consciousness within them, who else could she realistically trust to handle such a job?

In reality, she wants Byleth to become Sothis in body and mind, because she believes that her mother is the only one who can rule and guide humans. After 5 years as a prisoner, it is that she reconsiders and accepts that Byleth has to live her/him life as Byleth

[haarhaarhaar]

It isn't just the fact of it being 5 years that's relevant though, it's the imprisonment. Rhea is probably the most powerful individual in Fodlan, both in terms of authority and strength, and she has spent over 1000 years doing things her way and leading humanity. She's no stranger to wars or enemies, but as far as we know this is the first time humans have ever imprisoned her, and it's the result of not having her freedom for those five years that prompts her to think on whether she's made a mistake. Because up until that point, she might genuinely have believed that everything she was doing, both politically and in her personal life, was right (even when she was mistaken in thinking that way). When you're made powerless from power, reflecting on your fall is probably a natural consequence. And until that point she simply didn't doubt whether she was in the wrong or even that she could be wrong (again, being the highest and probably unquestioned authority in a region for 1000 years is gonna do that to you). A mistake, sure, and a pretty big one. But not unjustifiable.

[omegaxis1]

7 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

It isn't just the fact of it being 5 years that's relevant though, it's the imprisonment. Rhea is probably the most powerful individual in Fodlan, both in terms of authority and strength, and she has spent over 1000 years doing things her way and leading humanity. She's no stranger to wars or enemies, but as far as we know this is the first time humans have ever imprisoned her, and it's the result of not having her freedom for those five years that prompts her to think on whether she's made a mistake. Because up until that point, she might genuinely have believed that everything she was doing, both politically and in her personal life, was right (even when she was mistaken in thinking that way). When you're made powerless from power, reflecting on your fall is probably a natural consequence. And until that point she simply didn't doubt whether she was in the wrong or even that she could be wrong (again, being the highest and probably unquestioned authority in a region for 1000 years is gonna do that to you). A mistake, sure, and a pretty big one. But not unjustifiable.

That's kind of telling a lot. That it took 5 years of being separated from power to realizing how clinging to power had warped things out of proportion. She thought she was helping people and bringing peace, but all she caused was much suffering and strife for the people until it resulted in someone finally causing a continental wide war to oppose her reign. 

This is the problem with stagnant leadership. 

-

And to add on, Rhea has indicated that she has had the means of being able to move on. Her relationship with Wilhelm, how she saw Sitri as, how she cared for Jeralt at one point, all of these are moments in life where Rhea showed that she would open up to others to an extent and bond with them. 

She basically formed an isolation from the rest of the world for so long, which ironically made Fodlan itself isolated.

[Azz]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

And to add on, Rhea has indicated that she has had the means of being able to move on. Her relationship with Wilhelm, how she saw Sitri as, how she cared for Jeralt at one point, all of these are moments in life where Rhea showed that she would open up to others to an extent and bond with them. 

She basically formed an isolation from the rest of the world for so long, which ironically made Fodlan itself isolated.

This doesn't make any sense what so ever. Just because Rhea has shown that she able to to move on from some things does not mean, in anyway, that she has to be able to move on from every thing. That's not how people work in general. And even then, I'm sure the genocide of her people and murder of her mother is much more traumatic and hard to move on from than anything else she may have experience.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

Let's also just take the time to point how how warped it is that 5 years of imprisonment apparently made Rhea "better". That's really not how 5 years of isolation works on people. Just take a look at Dimitri. Flayn and Byleth escape the insane negative effects of years of isolation by being in a magical dragon sleep and there's nothing suggesting that Rhea ever was, meaning she had to go through 5 years of imprisonment, likely entirely alone save some people bringing her food and possibly even experimenting on her. That should have driven her insane, not somehow magically fixed her.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Let's also just take the time to point how how warped it is that 5 years of imprisonment apparently made Rhea "better". That's really not how 5 years of isolation works on people. Just take a look at Dimitri. Flayn and Byleth escape the insane negative effects of years of isolation by being in a magical dragon sleep and there's nothing suggesting that Rhea ever was, meaning she had to go through 5 years of imprisonment, likely entirely alone save some people bringing her food and possibly even experimenting on her. That should have driven her insane, not somehow magically fixed her.

Well, you have to remember that she's a literal DRAGON. How exactly do you IMPRISON a dragon? I doubt it was very easy, but likely keeping her confined alone is all they could do, as otherwise, Rhea would just break out. Edelgard definitely wanted her alive and not dead. 

I highly doubt she was experimented on, as the Agarthans touching her would result in her being torn apart and turned into a weapon. Especially given how Seteth states that Rhea is unharmed. 

Honestly, we're more making really harsh ideas on what Rhea's imprisonment is going through, assuming it's the absolute worst. But how bad was it? She's unharmed, she wasn't dead, and if anything, she got better mentally. If anything, Edelgard didn't treat her horribly despite imprisoning her. 

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Well, you have to remember that she's a literal DRAGON. How exactly do you IMPRISON a dragon? I doubt it was very easy, but likely keeping her confined alone is all they could do, as otherwise, Rhea would just break out. Edelgard definitely wanted her alive and not dead. 

I highly doubt she was experimented on, as the Agarthans touching her would result in her being torn apart and turned into a weapon. Especially given how Seteth states that Rhea is unharmed. 

Honestly, we're more making really harsh ideas on what Rhea's imprisonment is going through, assuming it's the absolute worst. But how bad was it? She's unharmed, she wasn't dead, and if anything, she got better mentally. If anything, Edelgard didn't treat her horribly despite imprisoning her. 

Maybe they didn't experiment on her, but getting better mentally is not how prison works and if you think it is, you need to do some research on solitary confinement. People are pushing for it to be outlawed as it's basically a form of torture and breaks people, it doesn't make them better. Her being a dragon doesn't really have any bearing on that, we all know dragons throughout FE history degenerate and considering how weak Rhea is in every route after you rescue her, she certainly wasn't treated well.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Maybe they didn't experiment on her, but getting better mentally is not how prison works and if you think it is, you need to do some research on solitary confinement. People are pushing for it to be outlawed as it's basically a form of torture and breaks people, it doesn't make them better. Her being a dragon doesn't really have any bearing on that, we all know dragons throughout FE history degenerate and considering how weak Rhea is in every route after you rescue her, she certainly wasn't treated well.

You're seriously trying to push your belief and twisting what happened as some horrible act of torture. Rhea was imprisoned and was unharmed. She was taken care of, but being imprisoned isn't meant to keep you at the best of health, especially since extra care has to be done given that she can turn into a dragon. 

However, you're rejecting the notion that Rhea gets better and insisting that she oughta have gotten even worse. Except, 3H has proven that how a person heals from trauma is not always the most practical way. Look at Dimitri and how he got his entire redemption. How did he heal? By someone dying in his arms. Yeah, there's more context, but it's a bit silly that his trauma of seeing death is somehow able to shaken and start to be healed by witnessing yet another death. If anything, he should go more insane by all practical sense. 

The same thing applies here. If anything, what Rhea got is a large-scale time out, thinking about what she's done and realizing her mistakes. 

And I have no idea why you bring out degeneration here, when that isn't even a subject in this scenario. 

1 hour ago, Azz said:

This doesn't make any sense what so ever. Just because Rhea has shown that she able to to move on from some things does not mean, in anyway, that she has to be able to move on from every thing. That's not how people work in general. And even then, I'm sure the genocide of her people and murder of her mother is much more traumatic and hard to move on from than anything else she may have experience.

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm simply saying that Rhea has had the means of being able to move on if she let herself get close to people. She had people she cared for like Wilhelm and others. She had the ability to learn to trust others and to find happiness. But she seemed to reject those notions of happiness over the belief her happiness lied with being with her mother. 

She calls Sitri her daughter, her relationship with Wilhelm seems to indicate that they are even romantically involved, and she definitely cared about Jeralt as well. 

Just as with Dimitri, who learned to move on or to let go of his obsession because he had people he cared for around him, so too, did Rhea.

You're trying to sum it up and simplify it as "getting over it", but I'm not saying that at all. Just as with Dimitri acknowledging that the voices haven't gone away, Rhea doesn't have to simply pretend that the genocide never happened. But she seems to deny fully getting close to people much like Dimitri, only in her case, it's been cranked up to 11. 

Her position of archbishop is something that she kept with herself, and never bothered to try and talk to others like a normal person. 

In fact, in the JP dialogue, Rhea always has mentions the goddess in every line. People don't realize it in the EN version, but it's definitely seems like she's acting as if every action and word she speaks is under the goddess's watch, and changes only after she got better in Part 2. 

[Fire Emblem Fan]

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah, except nothing about what you said had anything relevant and contributed to nothing. 

Kind of like this entire topic, so I guess that's okay.

But, here's something: I don't think anyone who hasn't gone through literal genocide has any right to say someone who has should try letting it go. That's quite possibly the most serious, mentally damaging things to ever go through, and some people are simply unable to fully move on.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Kind of like this entire topic, so I guess that's okay.

That's your opinion, and I disagree.

1 minute ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

But, here's something: I don't think anyone who hasn't gone through literal genocide has any right to say someone who has should try letting it go. That's quite possibly the most serious, mentally damaging things to ever go through, and some people are simply unable to fully move on.

Oh, now you decide to contribute. 

Except as pointed out, Rhea HAS started to try and move on in the game itself. As shown, five years of imprisonment in non-CF routes resulted in Rhea letting go of her obsession to revive her mother and accepting that her mother was truly gone. Five years of imprisonment did that, whereas a thousand years that had centuries of peacetime failed to. 

[Blackstarskywalker]

48 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Maybe they didn't experiment on her, but getting better mentally is not how prison works and if you think it is, you need to do some research on solitary confinement. People are pushing for it to be outlawed as it's basically a form of torture and breaks people, it doesn't make them better. Her being a dragon doesn't really have any bearing on that, we all know dragons throughout FE history degenerate and considering how weak Rhea is in every route after you rescue her, she certainly wasn't treated well.

The fact is that for her it worked. She decides to step aside, and abandons the idea of reviving her mother.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Oh, now you decide to contribute. 

Pointing out how unhealthy your argument is was definite contribution. 🙂

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Except as pointed out, Rhea HAS started to try and move on in the game itself. As shown, five years of imprisonment in non-CF routes resulted in Rhea letting go of her obsession to revive her mother and accepting that her mother was truly gone. Five years of imprisonment did that, whereas a thousand years that had centuries of peacetime failed to. 

I don't think it showed she fully moved on at all. Letting go of resurrecting her mother is one thing, letting go of a genocide is something different. The game really doesn't show us that; it honestly kinda sucks at showing most of Rhea's mental viewpoints.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

Since none of you seem to want to believe me about what isolation does to people, here. You want a more practical answer? The isolation we're currently going through has caused depression and other mental health issues to skyrocket and that's only been a couple of months with the ability to still go out and get groceries and other essentials.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+isolation+on+mental+health&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

Read up on some of the articles. It's not me saying it should've made things worse, it's science saying that. It's bad writing that it somehow made her better. Oh and by the way @omegaxis1you can literally see that she's in really bad shape. So bad that it takes her weeks of rest and healing to get enough strength up to even talk to you at the end of VW and SS. That's in the game, it's irrefutable. Not in the best condition is an understatement and unharmed is a misnomer at best, a blatant disregard for what we see at worst.

My point is, it's insanely bad writing for the 5 years of imprisonment to have made Rhea better.

[omegaxis1]

6 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I don't think it showed she fully moved on at all. Letting go of resurrecting her mother is one thing, letting go of a genocide is something different. The game really doesn't show us that; it honestly kinda sucks at showing most of Rhea's mental viewpoints.

Her not being able to let go of her past is proof in how she spent the millennium trying to revive her mother. She first tried that Cup ritual with the Four Saints, creating a monster. Then she tried to create artificial life to act as vessels for her. That obsession has been what drove her for a millennium, and now she finally let it go when all hell broke loose. 

3 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Since none of you seem to want to believe me about what isolation does to people, here. You want a more practical answer? The isolation we're currently going through has caused depression and other mental health issues to skyrocket and that's only been a couple of months with the ability to still go out and get groceries and other essentials.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+isolation+on+mental+health&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

Read up on some of the articles. It's not me saying it should've made things worse, it's science saying that. It's bad writing that it somehow made her better. Oh and by the way @omegaxis1you can literally see that she's in really bad shape. So bad that it takes her weeks of rest and healing to get enough strength up to even talk to you at the end of VW and SS. That's in the game, it's irrefutable. Not in the best condition is an understatement and unharmed is a misnomer at best, a blatant disregard for what we see at worst.

My point is, it's insanely bad writing for the 5 years of imprisonment to have made Rhea better.

Again, the same logic applies to Dimitri as well. It's bad writing on both parts. Please don't try and think that it singles out to just one. 

Also, I know what happens. Rhea was weak, but not harmed. So no experiments, and certainly no torture. And bad writing or not, that doesn't change the fact that the game still does present that she got better mentally as a result of this. 

So either way, it doesn't change the core point. She started to get better as a result of the imprisonment. That is fact. Are you still insistent on trying to pretend that it isn't?

Edited May 3, 2020 by omegaxis1

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Again, the same logic applies to Dimitri as well. It's bad writing on both parts. Please don't try and think that it singles out to just one. 

Also, I know what happens. Rhea was weak, but not harmed. So no experiments, and certainly no torture. And bad writing or not, that doesn't change the fact that the game still does present that she got better mentally as a result of this. 

So either way, it doesn't change the core point. She started to get better as a result of the imprisonment. That is fact. Are you still insistent on trying to pretend that it isn't?

First of all, I never mentioned Dimitri. We were not talking about Dimitri, and believe it or not bringing him up does nothing to help you. I do agree that they handled his recovery very badly.

Secondly, just because that's the way the game presents it, doesn't mean I can't find it dumb as all hell and think it makes no sense. It may be a fantasy game, but that particular lesson it teaches is so ungrounded from reality as to be potentially harmful to someone suffering with problems. Same as with Dimitri since you want to keep bringing him into this. Love alone doesn't fix mental health issues, isolation definitely doesn't.

Third of all, I never tried to pretend jack. For someone who talks all the time about people twisting his words, you sure do the same thing to other people a lot. I said it made 0 sense, not that it didn't happen.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

First of all, I never mentioned Dimitri. We were not talking about Dimitri, and believe it or not bringing him up does nothing to help you. I do agree that they handled his recovery very badly.

Secondly, just because that's the way the game presents it, doesn't mean I can't find it dumb as all hell and think it makes no sense. It may be a fantasy game, but that particular lesson it teaches is so ungrounded from reality as to be potentially harmful to someone suffering with problems. Same as with Dimitri since you want to keep bringing him into this. Love alone doesn't fix mental health issues, isolation definitely doesn't.

Third of all, I never tried to pretend jack. For someone who talks all the time about people twisting his words, you sure do the same thing to other people a lot. I said it made 0 sense, not that it didn't happen.

Then I misunderstood you, and I am sorry for that. 

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Then I misunderstood you, and I am sorry for that. 

Me too. I got a bit snappy there, my apologies.

Anyway, back on topic.

I do find Rhea to be quite sympathetic as a character. She's someone who has managed to hold herself together for a very long time to do what she believed to be right, even as the very people she's trying to help go and spit on her teachings. She dealt with the loss of most of her family and had to watch their bones be made into the very weapons that were used against her. I cannot even imagine how damaging that must be to someone.

That being said, I don't think she was right to install herself as the head of the church for so long. I understand why she did it, she genuinely believed that getting Sothis back would be best for the world and honestly she might have been right. But we can't know that and her obsession was a major problem. She needed to be removed from power, I don't think you'll find anyone who will argue that.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Me too. I got a bit snappy there, my apologies.

Anyway, back on topic.

I do find Rhea to be quite sympathetic as a character. She's someone who has managed to hold herself together for a very long time to do what she believed to be right, even as the very people she's trying to help go and spit on her teachings. She dealt with the loss of most of her family and had to watch their bones be made into the very weapons that were used against her. I cannot even imagine how damaging that must be to someone.

That being said, I don't think she was right to install herself as the head of the church for so long. I understand why she did it, she genuinely believed that getting Sothis back would be best for the world and honestly she might have been right. But we can't know that and her obsession was a major problem. She needed to be removed from power, I don't think you'll find anyone who will argue that.

If you looked at the original post, I also showed how this isn't the first time people are slaughtered and turned into items of great power. To think a story about children's trading cards ended up being so dark, eh?

I think it goes to show that she didn't trust humanity to be able to lead itself. That they should always believe that they must worship the goddess and let said goddess be the one to guide them. It's the opposite of what became Edelgard's beliefs, where she believes dragons should not rule over humanity at all and humans can lead themselves.

And the more she clung to power, the more she suffered a case of stagnant leadership. 

[Blackstarskywalker]

52 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

If you looked at the original post, I also showed how this isn't the first time people are slaughtered and turned into items of great power. To think a story about children's trading cards ended up being so dark, eh?

I think it goes to show that she didn't trust humanity to be able to lead itself. That they should always believe that they must worship the goddess and let said goddess be the one to guide them. It's the opposite of what became Edelgard's beliefs, where she believes dragons should not rule over humanity at all and humans can lead themselves.

And the more she clung to power, the more she suffered a case of stagnant leadership. 

Exactly. Between the conflict between Edelgard and Rhea, it is Edelgard who is right. But it seems that Rhea has a pass through what she lived, instead Edelgard who also had a similar experience, is treated harder. I never saw Edelgard show a sadistic side like Rhea and Dimitri.

[haarhaarhaar]

16 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

And the more she clung to power, the more she suffered a case of stagnant leadership

I don't think we're in disagreement about the stagnancy of her leadership, or the fact that she straight up does bad things with her power. But the fact that it takes her 'only' five years of imprisonment to change her outlook doesn't make her unjustifiable. My point was that such an imprisonment would change anyone's outlook, especially someone for whom the circumstance of being trapped in a cell powerless while a millennium's worth of hard work is undone was inconceivable up until a couple of weeks before she was imprisoned. No one is attempting to say Rhea is somehow an amazing example of moral fortitude, but merely pointing out that her background and motivations make her choices understandable, even if we want to morally condemn the actions that she actually takes.

How much someone personally dislikes Rhea, or how "bad" they think she is, is a different question to her being unjustifiable. Often, a good test for whether you find something unjustifiable is by attempting to put yourself in the same situation and headspace as the person in question, and asking whether you could never conceive of following the same path as them. And the truth is, putting oneself in Rhea's position is exceptionally difficult for anybody on this forum, primarily because I assume most commenters are incapable of suffering for 1000 years while losing almost every member of your species based on racial prejudice and being the spiritual leader of the species that killed nearly everyone you love and being able to transform into a white dragon. Call her bad or evil or worse than Edelgard if you want, that's your right. But unjustifiable is a much harder burden of proof, and I don't think anyone can meet it, which might be why some people on this forum cut her some slack despite the bad things she does.

[Timlugia]

5 hours ago, Motendra said:

Well, there is also to consider that at that point, she actually has the time to consider it, given that she's no longer the pope in that situation. That, or, how she always had high hopes for Byleth to the point of entrusting the church to them, indicating that she might have already known that she wasn't cut out for the job, but lacked a suitable successor to take up the position. Aside from Byleth, who has the literal heart of the Goddess and her consciousness within them, who else could she realistically trust to handle such a job?

She makes that quite clear in Chapter 12

Quote

Rhea: You must have guessed it by now. The truth of who you are. Or perhaps I should say, your lost memories are surely beginning to return. I have acted all these long years as a mere proxy for you. But the duty is yours and yours alone. Only you can lead the people of Fodlan.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Timlugia

[omegaxis1]

13 minutes ago, Timlugia said:

She makes that quite clear in Chapter 12

The issue on that one is that she also notes that Byleth's "memories" are returning. Followed by what she says to Seteth:

Quote

Rhea: In a sense. Our dear professor is...a vessel. One who carries the power of the progenitor god within. In time, the vessel will become one with the power contained within, and the progenitor god shall return to this world.

This is why Rhea stepping down at the end of the non-CF routes compared to this one is that Rhea was stepping down for Byleth in here are completely different reasoning. In Chapter 12, it was only cause she believed that Byleth would become Sothis. But after she healed at the end of non-CF routes, she let go of wanting her mother back, so she stepped down for Byleth themselves. 

The context is very important to understand in what Rhea says, cause it reveals the underlying problem.

1 hour ago, haarhaarhaar said:

I don't think we're in disagreement about the stagnancy of her leadership, or the fact that she straight up does bad things with her power. But the fact that it takes her 'only' five years of imprisonment to change her outlook doesn't make her unjustifiable. My point was that such an imprisonment would change anyone's outlook, especially someone for whom the circumstance of being trapped in a cell powerless while a millennium's worth of hard work is undone was inconceivable up until a couple of weeks before she was imprisoned. No one is attempting to say Rhea is somehow an amazing example of moral fortitude, but merely pointing out that her background and motivations make her choices understandable, even if we want to morally condemn the actions that she actually takes.

How much someone personally dislikes Rhea, or how "bad" they think she is, is a different question to her being unjustifiable. Often, a good test for whether you find something unjustifiable is by attempting to put yourself in the same situation and headspace as the person in question, and asking whether you could never conceive of following the same path as them. And the truth is, putting oneself in Rhea's position is exceptionally difficult for anybody on this forum, primarily because I assume most commenters are incapable of suffering for 1000 years while losing almost every member of your species based on racial prejudice and being the spiritual leader of the species that killed nearly everyone you love and being able to transform into a white dragon. Call her bad or evil or worse than Edelgard if you want, that's your right. But unjustifiable is a much harder burden of proof, and I don't think anyone can meet it, which might be why some people on this forum cut her some slack despite the bad things she does.

It's not that she's evil or such. But in the end, her beliefs in what peace would be is overall wrong. It's not even the case of how it took her five years to heal or anything. It's tragic that she was only able to start to move on when things went to hell. 

[haarhaarhaar]

28 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It's not that she's evil or such. But in the end, her beliefs in what peace would be is overall wrong. It's not even the case of how it took her five years to heal or anything. It's tragic that she was only able to start to move on when things went to hell. 

Yeah tragic is definitely the right word.

And I personally agree with you (even though others might not) that her version of peace is incorrect. But Fodlan and the Church of Seiros massively resembles early modern Europe and its relation to the Catholic Church, and history's judgement of that is quite nuanced. Even though I don't think Rhea does or is what is best for humanity, I imagine plenty of people could, especially within the world of the game where people are far happier to seek divine causes than today. I guess I'm also thinking from the perspective of a human, though, rather than a Nabatean. 

[eclipse]

19 hours ago, JubileePhoenix said:

Now I’m not going to be like eclipse and tell you to rethink your whole damn life. I just think you have a leak of experience. Do your research! There’s a reason you learn how to do an argument in research class.

Guess who's getting the whole "rethink your whole damn life" speech?

See, being unreasonably mad about this tells me you didn't think about why I brought it up.  Telling someone to "get over it", especially when it comes to trauma, almost always ends badly.  And by "badly", I mean that this is how you sever social connections.  Hell, there's people on these boards that have had their own trauma - depending on how you come across, and how they react, it might very well end up as an instant ban.

Now, for you.  It's clear that you have some sort of issue with me.  So. . .you can either attempt to resolve it over PM, or you can demonstrate IRL what 3H said about holding on to things that make you angry.  BTW, this works on every aspect of your life.

17 hours ago, Blackstarskywalker said:

Well, 5 years that she was a prisoner if it was enough for her to "reconsider" and realize that she was wrong. So yes, it is true that some trauma can be overcome over time.

If Rhea had been imprisoned for five years before the game started, I doubt it would've helped.  But due to everything that happened in-game, perhaps it was the push she needed to process everything.

11 hours ago, Crysta said:

Don't think I'd not hate someone who killed my mom, either, but sure.

More like, her mom's dead, and the relics are proof that she's dead, and they're still around.

4 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Since none of you seem to want to believe me about what isolation does to people, here. You want a more practical answer? The isolation we're currently going through has caused depression and other mental health issues to skyrocket and that's only been a couple of months with the ability to still go out and get groceries and other essentials.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+isolation+on+mental+health&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

Read up on some of the articles. It's not me saying it should've made things worse, it's science saying that. It's bad writing that it somehow made her better. Oh and by the way @omegaxis1you can literally see that she's in really bad shape. So bad that it takes her weeks of rest and healing to get enough strength up to even talk to you at the end of VW and SS. That's in the game, it's irrefutable. Not in the best condition is an understatement and unharmed is a misnomer at best, a blatant disregard for what we see at worst.

My point is, it's insanely bad writing for the 5 years of imprisonment to have made Rhea better.

I poked around a bit, and found this.  It looks like there's negative consequences in humans after ten days of supermax prisons (which is far more extreme than anything Fodlan can come up with).  However, Rhea's life span is most definitely not human, and we have no idea what her prison conditions were like.  From what I could tell, she was decently dressed when released, so perhaps it wasn't true isolation.

Second, five years to Rhea, relatively speaking, is roughly the equivalent of five months to a human (this is assuming that Rhea's exactly 1,000 years old when she's imprisoned, and the human life span is 80 years).  In other words, this is a really cool argument, but it's entirely the writing's fault that it can't be a better-made one.