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Why I cannot fully sympathize with Rhea


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One thing I see few people ever consider is that much of what Rhea does is because her race is on the brink of extinction. There are only 5 confirmed Nabatean survivors. Almost everything she built in her life was to protect the remaining Nabateans. Bringing back Sothis was very important to her, but not as much as making sure her race lived to see another day. The best way to do that is to assume religious control of the land and manipulate history. Note that at the end of Verdant Wind Rhea tells Claude the whole "truth" but still lies to him by saying she is the last of the Nabateans. She is still looking out for Seteth, Flayn, Indech and Macuil.

Another thing is that while she desperately wants Sothis back, it's not just because Sothis is her mother or that she can rule humans in her stead, but because she is the Progenitor God - single-handedly responsible for the Nabateans existence. Talking to Byleth at the end of Silver Snow, she says "I thought that I could regain all that I had lost, if only I could revive my mother." She believes that Sothis could either bring back her lost siblings to life, or make new ones. Either way, her race gets to live on.

We talk as though trauma is the only reason she wants to be in charge, without looking into the context of why she does the things she does.

On another note, I think we grossly overestimate how much martial power (and political and religious power, to a much lesser extent) the church wields. It's still significant, but humans do human things, and that has shaped Fodlan just as much as the church has.

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3 minutes ago, Slyfox said:

One thing I see few people ever consider is that much of what Rhea does is because her race is on the brink of extinction. There are only 5 confirmed Nabatean survivors. Almost everything she built in her life was to protect the remaining Nabateans. Bringing back Sothis was very important to her, but not as much as making sure her race lived to see another day. The best way to do that is to assume religious control of the land and manipulate history. Note that at the end of Verdant Wind Rhea tells Claude the whole "truth" but still lies to him by saying she is the last of the Nabateans. She is still looking out for Seteth, Flayn, Indech and Macuil.

This is very much debatable. By the War of Heroes end, no human knew of the existence of Nabateans. Her changing history was never indicated to even be about protecting the Nabateans, even. The Agarthans were an existence that were, at best, suspected to be around, but nothing conclusive to indicate that they even actually exist.

5 minutes ago, Slyfox said:

Another thing is that while she desperately wants Sothis back, it's not just because Sothis is her mother or that she can rule humans in her stead, but because she is the Progenitor God - single-handedly responsible for the Nabateans existence. Talking to Byleth at the end of Silver Snow, she says "I thought that I could regain all that I had lost, if only I could revive my mother." She believes that Sothis could either bring back her lost siblings to life, or make new ones. Either way, her race gets to live on.

This is actually an interesting point. While it is true that Sothis created the Nabateans from her blood, there were other ways of reviving the Nabateans by living among humans. I mean, there's some people that theorize that Rhea might not even be just someone that gifted Wilhelm with a Crest, but actually an ancestor. Or that one of the Saints of the Lost Crests had Aubin actually have a family of their own, indicating that Constance's family is actually descended from Aubin himself. 

8 minutes ago, Slyfox said:

We talk as though trauma is the only reason she wants to be in charge, without looking into the context of why she does the things she does.

I mean... her trauma is a MAJOR factor in her actions. 

8 minutes ago, Slyfox said:

On another note, I think we grossly overestimate how much martial power (and political and religious power, to a much lesser extent) the church wields. It's still significant, but humans do human things, and that has shaped Fodlan just as much as the church has.

I honestly don't think so. The Church has a private military force that can enter any nation for Church business, can actually bar nations from technological advances or use of resources, back Loog's claim for independence, thus creating the Kingdom, and how the archbishop has to be present in the succession of emperors in Adrestia, and crown the king of Faerghus. 

Rhea has much of a hold over the way Fodlan has shaped itself. It's why Claude says that Rhea's doctrine is a major factor as to why Fodlan is what it is. You have to realize that religion in medieval times holds significant power. 

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3 hours ago, eclipse said:

Second, five years to Rhea, relatively speaking, is roughly the equivalent of five months to a human (this is assuming that Rhea's exactly 1,000 years old when she's imprisoned, and the human life span is 80 years).  In other words, this is a really cool argument, but it's entirely the writing's fault that it can't be a better-made one

Slightly tangentially, I do wonder about the biology/psychology of Nabateans/Crest beasts. Indech seems to have been chilling on his own underwater for ages (and the only people he talks to are explorers/adventurers who probably died at his hands trying to get The Inexhaustible), Macuil is for some reason still hanging around in Sreng, where he headed for over 1000 years previously, but with a cult of human worshippers, and Maurice is still in the same forest where it is rumoured that he originally hid out in roughly 1000 years before (but he can communicate with other beasts and his victims). I'm willing to bet Maurice can only talk to beasts due to some Crest-related quirk (like how Marianne seems to understands animals). But still, how do they sustain themselves, and how do they perceive time? We've mostly been assuming that Rhea comprehends time like we do (where 5 years, true isolation or not, is significant), but I suppose there's no guarantee that that's true.Though the others I've listed have all been existing with minimal or limited social interactions - maybe beasts don't need/value it as much? Maybe it's different when they're transformed, as opposed to Seteth, who was presumably in human form while protecting Flayn? 

Sorry, the above is just me musing - basically all I want to say is that even though 5 years is only a sliver of Rhea's life, there's no proof either way to show that she feels it's an insignificant amount of time. We know so little about the interior of being Nabatean that we might even be fundamentally wrong about analysing them like humans - they demonstrate emotions and reason, and we get supports between Seteth/Flayn and humans, and there's the meta-argument that they were written as characters by humans, but they are still fundamentally alien, and the supports never delve into their Nabatean-ness. So we might be in an absolute dead end when it comes to understanding Rhea or her perception of anything.

EDIT: Taking what I said above to be true technically would make Rhea 'unjustifiable', in the sense that we humans are literally not equipped, we don't have the mental resources, to be able to justify anything that Rhea does, good or bad. It's a little bit of an unnecessary black hole of an argument, given that I'm 99% sure this isn't what the thread was getting at, but this is probably the only argument about Rhea being unjustifiable that makes sense. If anyone wants to deal with her with human terms and concepts, then I'm not sure where you go from there in showing that she's unjustifiable.

Edited by haarhaarhaar
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https://serenesforest.net/2020/03/24/three-houses-nintendo-dream-interview-reveals-first-route-claudes-real-name/

It was already confirmed Nemesis was hunting down Nabateans for power alone. Even during the time she was helping Wilhelm found Adrestia. It was a literal war for her own survival and humans choice to help her. Plus only rewrote history confirmed for peace. A lot of wrong information in this thread. Noa dead and got turned into a heroes relic in Yuris life time. The Slithers never stopped hunting Nabateans. 

Edited by Julian Solo
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7 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

https://serenesforest.net/2020/03/24/three-houses-nintendo-dream-interview-reveals-first-route-claudes-real-name/

It was already confirmed Nemesis was hunting down Nabateans for power alone. Even during the time she was helping Wilhelm found Adrestia. It was a literal war for her own survival and humans choice to help her. Plus only rewrote history confirmed for peace. A lot of wrong information in this thread. Noa dead and got turned into a heroes relic in Yuris life time. The Slithers never stopped hunting Nabateans. 

Several misconceptions you failed to address.

1) In the Shadow Library, it is revealed that the Ten Elites don't even understand where Relics or Crests came from, or why Rhea hated them. Dragons that were killed were likely in dragon form. But Nabateans are able to assume human form. Already there, that proves how Nabateans are hidden from sight.

2) Rhea rewrote history for her own benefit, but nothing in there was remarked that they meddled with history to protect Nabateans, but rather enforce Rhea's belief in peace, which Rhea admitted was wrong.

3) If you read Yuri's support, you'd learn how he was given blood from someone when he was ill, and gained a Crest from it. Not to mention that Yuri is noted to how he has longevity as well, something that should only exist for 1st Gen Crest holders that are given Nabatean blood. That already means that he was given blood directly from Noa himself. 

4) There's literally no evidence that there's been Nabatean hunts throughout history. I mean, as stated above, Indech and Macuil basically stayed where they were at for so long, and yet no Agarthans tried to attack. 

You're ignoring several pieces of information given by the game itself and thus misinterpreting what the interview is stating. 

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4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

4) There's literally no evidence that there's been Nabatean hunts throughout history. I mean, as stated above, Indech and Macuil basically stayed where they were at for so long, and yet no Agarthans tried to attack.

Yeah I'm not sure actual proof of this exists - it's a reasonable assumption, but at most it's an assumption (unless I've missed something crucial). That being said, the fact that we have no information on whether the Agarthans were successful doesn't mean they weren't hunting. Indech and Macuil are both quite powerful, and out of the way - and there's no proof that Agarthans didn't attack, only that they didn't succeed. Again, the best you can hope to be about it is agnostic. I personally think it's likely that they would have been hunted if they were careless enough to walk around without hiding their green hair, for example (because why would TWSITD pass that up?) and we also don't know if there were any Nabateans who survived the war against Nemesis who the Agarthans didn't later kill. 

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Several misconceptions you failed to address.

1) In the Shadow Library, it is revealed that the Ten Elites don't even understand where Relics or Crests came from, or why Rhea hated them. Dragons that were killed were likely in dragon form. But Nabateans are able to assume human form. Already there, that proves how Nabateans are hidden from sight.

2) Rhea rewrote history for her own benefit, but nothing in there was remarked that they meddled with history to protect Nabateans, but rather enforce Rhea's belief in peace, which Rhea admitted was wrong.

3) If you read Yuri's support, you'd learn how he was given blood from someone when he was ill, and gained a Crest from it. Not to mention that Yuri is noted to how he has longevity as well, something that should only exist for 1st Gen Crest holders that are given Nabatean blood. That already means that he was given blood directly from Noa himself. 

4) There's literally no evidence that there's been Nabatean hunts throughout history. I mean, as stated above, Indech and Macuil basically stayed where they were at for so long, and yet no Agarthans tried to attack. 

You're ignoring several pieces of information given by the game itself and thus misinterpreting what the interview is stating. 

No the only one misinterpreting it is you. The ring is a real heroes relic did you even play the dlc?  Sure if you ignore Seteth paralogue it’s already know they lied to protect Flayn. 
 

Genocide for power is okay because said person lied to his army who was working with those who slither in the dark? 
 

Yeah dude please seek help.

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17 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

No the only one misinterpreting it is you. The ring is a real heroes relic did you even play the dlc?  Sure if you ignore Seteth paralogue it’s already know they lied to protect Flayn. 

Sigh... did you... read what I said?

Also, I'm gonna point this out to you now. Having a Relic doesn't mean that Noa was killed by an Agarthan and turned into a weapon.

Keep in mind that Blutgang exists, with the Crest Stone of Maurice, and we have Aymr, which ALSO has the Crest Stone of Maurice. There are multiple Crest Stones bearing the same Crests, possibly family related or such, and thus Relics of a Crest can exist while another Nabatean can exist.

Here, as proof:

Quote

Yuri: I guess it couldn't hurt to tell you about it. Can't quite remember how old I was, but my mother had taken in an elderly man wandering the town. He was worse for wear—could barely even walk. She nursed him back to health under our own humble roof. In return for her kindly gesture, he taught me to read and write. This notebook is a relic of those times. Not too long after that, I came down with a terrible illness. We had no money to speak of, so a doctor's visit was out of the question. My mother went everywhere asking for help, to no avail. And then the elder stepped in and saved me. I don't know how he did it...or what it was he did.

Byleth:
Choice 1: Maybe he was a doctor.
Choice 2: Where is he now?

Yuri:
Choice 1 response: Could've been. I never knew much about him, honestly. He could have been a mage, a scholar... I haven't the foggiest. And I'll never know. Shortly after curing me of my illness, he passed on. Natural causes.
Choice 2 response: Long since passed on. Natural causes. I believe it happened shortly after he cured me.

-

Balthus: There's a story they tell where my mom grew up. Long ago, the village got in a squabble with some folks looking to conquer the place. A village elder gave some kind of holy red stuff to their wounded soldiers. Some kind of liquid, who knows... After she did that, some of them made a complete recovery, against all odds. The rest of them were changed, but not for the better. They up and vanished before long.

Yuri: And then?

Balthus: Crests suddenly manifested for the ones who survived. They weren't inherited, or gifted by the goddess. It's a real thinker, yeah? A reaaal thinker...

Yuri: Near death but survived, despite all odds. Wait! The elder who my mom saved... Could he have used something similar? No, it can't be. Yet... something here is unsettling in its familiarity.

Balthus: Hit the mark, did I?

Yuri: I don't know whether you hit the mark or missed it entirely. But your story was a cute one regardless. The truth is, I've been trying to sort out who I am. And, well... I haven't been successful in it. I don't even know whether my mother is truly my birth mother... or why it is I have this Crest. At this point, I have nothing but speculations. Maybe I'll sink into my grave without ever knowing the truth.

And Yuri's ending with Byleth in non-CF routes says this at the very end:

Quote

After working to ensure a bright and prosperous future for Fodlan, the couple stepped back from the public eye and vanished from official record. Curiously, informal notes and letters from friends suggest that the pair was extraordinarily long-lived and that their youth was untouched by the passage of time.

 

17 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

Genocide for power is okay because said person lied to his army who was working with those who slither in the dark? 
 

Yeah dude please seek help.

Excuse me? What are you even on about? 

Edited by omegaxis1
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1 hour ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Slightly tangentially, I do wonder about the biology/psychology of Nabateans/Crest beasts. Indech seems to have been chilling on his own underwater for ages (and the only people he talks to are explorers/adventurers who probably died at his hands trying to get The Inexhaustible), Macuil is for some reason still hanging around in Sreng, where he headed for over 1000 years previously, but with a cult of human worshippers, and Maurice is still in the same forest where it is rumoured that he originally hid out in roughly 1000 years before (but he can communicate with other beasts and his victims). I'm willing to bet Maurice can only talk to beasts due to some Crest-related quirk (like how Marianne seems to understands animals). But still, how do they sustain themselves, and how do they perceive time? We've mostly been assuming that Rhea comprehends time like we do (where 5 years, true isolation or not, is significant), but I suppose there's no guarantee that that's true.Though the others I've listed have all been existing with minimal or limited social interactions - maybe beasts don't need/value it as much? Maybe it's different when they're transformed, as opposed to Seteth, who was presumably in human form while protecting Flayn? 

Sorry, the above is just me musing - basically all I want to say is that even though 5 years is only a sliver of Rhea's life, there's no proof either way to show that she feels it's an insignificant amount of time. We know so little about the interior of being Nabatean that we might even be fundamentally wrong about analysing them like humans - they demonstrate emotions and reason, and we get supports between Seteth/Flayn and humans, and there's the meta-argument that they were written as characters by humans, but they are still fundamentally alien, and the supports never delve into their Nabatean-ness. So we might be in an absolute dead end when it comes to understanding Rhea or her perception of anything.

EDIT: Taking what I said above to be true technically would make Rhea 'unjustifiable', in the sense that we humans are literally not equipped, we don't have the mental resources, to be able to justify anything that Rhea does, good or bad. It's a little bit of an unnecessary black hole of an argument, given that I'm 99% sure this isn't what the thread was getting at, but this is probably the only argument about Rhea being unjustifiable that makes sense. If anyone wants to deal with her with human terms and concepts, then I'm not sure where you go from there in showing that she's unjustifiable.

The perception of time is something that's studied in humans.  It's an attempt to explain why time feels like it's moving slowly as a kid, but as an adult, where did the last five years go?

I also forgot the other possibility, that Rhea knocked herself out for an indeterminate amount of time after transforming.  If she took a Byleth-sized nap of five years, then she would've been imprisoned for something like four months (give or take).  Assuming that the time thing I mentioned earlier is true, then it could very well be the equivalent of time-out for her.

I'm also positive that the difference in time perception between us mortals and a being that lives for millennia isn't the point of the thread.  However, the general logic behind her actions is something that we the audience can understand, so perhaps manakete thinking isn't completely out of left field.  It's interesting to think about, though!

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Aymr was never called a heroes relic it’s a crest stone weapon? Also how would Noa be alive currently if his bones where made into a ring powered by his heart. Balthus gauntlets for one are fake heroes relics. 

Edited by Julian Solo
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Just now, Julian Solo said:

Aymr was never called a heroes relic it’s a crest stone weapon? Also how would Noa be alive currently if his bones where made into a ring powered by his heart. 

Aymr itself might be artificially made, but the Crest Stone is as real as the others. The Crest Stone is that of Maurice, and Blutgang also has the Crest Stone of Maurice. 

Meaning that there ate TWO Crest Stones with the Crest of Maurice on it.

So the fact that there's a Relic with a Crest Stone of Aubin doesn't mean that it's from the actual Aubin, but a Nabatean that bore a similar Crest to Aubin. 

Because I've literally pointed out, Yuri got his Crest FROM Aubin himself. 

Remember, a Crest holder having longevity is known to be possible ONLY for those that received their Crest directly from a Nabatean. Evidence being Nemesis, the Ten Elites, and Jeralt even. Jeralt stated that he no longer remembers his age, having stopped counting after hitting a hundred. 

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Nabateans having the same crest that’s never been stated. The slithers can make fake crests stones. The ring is real. Balthus gauntlets are fake. The game would have told us if the ring wasn’t real. It also came from Dagda not Fodlan. It’s pretty obvious he got killed and turned into a hero’s relic recently. Heck Hapis Nabatean was probably killed recently to as its never mentioned alive and was given to Hapi by Cornelia. But the Nabatean was alive after the war of heroes. Like the dark heroes relics. The dark sword of the creator needed two crest stones to work Noa and Timotheos. The slithers never stopped hunting the Nabateans who left the protection of the church.

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1 minute ago, Julian Solo said:

Nabateans having the same crest that’s never been stated. The slithers can make fake crests stones. The ring is real. Balthus gauntlets are fake. The game would have told us if the ring wasn’t real. It also came from Dagda not Fodlan. It’s pretty obvious he got killed and turned into a hero’s relic recently. Heck Hapis Nabatean was probably killed recently to as its never mentioned alive and was given to Hapi by Cornelia. But the Nabatean was alive after the war of heroes. Like the dark heroes relics. The dark sword of the creator needed two crest stones to work Noa and Timotheos. The slithers never stopped hunting the Nabateans who left the protection of the church.

Dude, you are jumping into so many conclusions that it's outright headcanon.

You wanna prove your case, present EVIDENCE.

I've already presented evidence by how Yuri attained his Crest from Aubin himself, as Yuri stated that he was dying from a plague, then the old man suddenly helped save his life, and then died. And what happened? Yuri has a Crest and bears longevity, proven by his ending with Byleth. 

Like, don't try and start making up headcanons just to suit your logic. 

Cause here's the thing.

If they could create articifial Crest Stones, why did they need the Crest Stones of Noa and Timotheos for the Dark Creator Sword? Why not just create an artificial Crest Stone of Flames? If those Crest Stones are real, then Aymr's Crest Stone is real as well. Meaning that there are TWO Crest Stones of Maurice. 

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2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Dude, you are jumping into so many conclusions that it's outright headcanon.

You wanna prove your case, present EVIDENCE.

I've already presented evidence by how Yuri attained his Crest from Aubin himself, as Yuri stated that he was dying from a plague, then the old man suddenly helped save his life, and then died. And what happened? Yuri has a Crest and bears longevity, proven by his ending with Byleth. 

Like, don't try and start making up headcanons just to suit your logic. 

Cause here's the thing.

If they could create articifial Crest Stones, why did they need the Crest Stones of Noa and Timotheos for the Dark Creator Sword? Why not just create an artificial Crest Stone of Flames? If those Crest Stones are real, then Aymr's Crest Stone is real as well. Meaning that there are TWO Crest Stones of Maurice. 

They have never shown the ability to make a fake crest stone of flames they wouldn’t have had to steal the real one if they could. How do you know Aymr has a crest stone of beast or if it’s even real? It needs a crest of Seiros? How do you know it isn’t a fake crest stone of Seiros? Nothing says the ring came from war of heroes just that it was lost. And it was because Duke Gerth was keeping it from the church. Yuri is 20 the Last Mach war was only five years ago. The Nabateans all share names with there crest stone nothing says there are multiple of the same Nabateans but we do know there made out of there corpses.  So the likely if a Nabatean surviving being turned into a relic is highly unlikely. 

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It is established that the Agarthans can make artificial crest stones. They're mostly used to create demonic beasts so it's not surprising that they might have advanced enough to make an artificial crest of the beast. Besides, it's incredibly unlikely that the Nabateans were walking around with two or more hearts, that would've been stated and they would've made multiple weapons out of each in that case.

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19 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

They have never shown the ability to make a fake crest stone of flames they wouldn’t have had to steal the real one if they could. How do you know Aymr has a crest stone of beast or if it’s even real? It needs a crest of Seiros? How do you know it isn’t a fake crest stone of Seiros? Nothing says the ring came from war of heroes just that it was lost. And it was because Duke Gerth was keeping it from the church. Yuri is 20 the Last Mach war was only five years ago. The Nabateans all share names with there crest stone nothing says there are multiple of the same Nabateans but we do know there made out of there corpses.  So the likely if a Nabatean surviving being turned into a relic is highly unlikely. 

We know it has a Crest Stone of Maurice because it's on the concept art. You can see it clearly in the final cutscene of CF anyway. 

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1 minute ago, Julian Solo said:

They have never shown the ability to make a fake crest stone of flames they wouldn’t have had to steal the real one if they could. How do you know Aymr has a crest stone of beast or if it’s even real? It needs a crest of Seiros? How do you know it isn’t a fake crest stone of Seiros? Nothing says the ring came from war of heroes just that it was lost. And it was because Duke Gerth was keeping it from the church. Yuri is 20 the Last Mach war was only five years ago. The Nabateans all share names with there crest stone nothing says there are multiple of the same Nabateans but we do know there made out of there corpses.  So the likely if a Nabatean surviving being turned into a relic is highly unlikely. 

Dude, are you even reading what you are writing? You are contradicting yourself in so many ways that it's not even funny. 

Aymr was modified to be able to work the Crest Stone of Maurice with the Crest of Seiros. Just as they modified the Crest Stones of Noa and Timotheos in the Dark Creator Sword to link with the Crest of Flames. You are trying to claim that the Crest Stones of Noa and Timotheus are real, but insisting that the Crest Stone of Maurice in Aymr is artificial, despite not one bit of info proving that the Crest Stone is artificial. You're literally working double standards here, insisting one, but rejecting the other that works the exact same way.

Also, I am going to quote this again. And this time, bold it so you can see it clearly. Cause you must have ignored what I posted before.

Quote

Yuri: I guess it couldn't hurt to tell you about it. Can't quite remember how old I was, but my mother had taken in an elderly man wandering the town. He was worse for wear—could barely even walk. She nursed him back to health under our own humble roof. In return for her kindly gesture, he taught me to read and write. This notebook is a relic of those times. Not too long after that, I came down with a terrible illness. We had no money to speak of, so a doctor's visit was out of the question. My mother went everywhere asking for help, to no avail. And then the elder stepped in and saved me. I don't know how he did it...or what it was he did.

Byleth:
Choice 1: Maybe he was a doctor.
Choice 2: Where is he now?

Yuri:
Choice 1 response: Could've been. I never knew much about him, honestly. He could have been a mage, a scholar... I haven't the foggiest. And I'll never know. Shortly after curing me of my illness, he passed on. Natural causes.
Choice 2 response: Long since passed on. Natural causes. I believe it happened shortly after he cured me.

-

Balthus: There's a story they tell where my mom grew up. Long ago, the village got in a squabble with some folks looking to conquer the place. A village elder gave some kind of holy red stuff to their wounded soldiers. Some kind of liquid, who knows... After she did that, some of them made a complete recovery, against all odds. The rest of them were changed, but not for the better. They up and vanished before long.

Yuri: And then?

Balthus: Crests suddenly manifested for the ones who survived. They weren't inherited, or gifted by the goddess. It's a real thinker, yeah? A reaaal thinker...

Yuri: Near death but survived, despite all odds. Wait! The elder who my mom saved... Could he have used something similar? No, it can't be. Yet... something here is unsettling in its familiarity.

Balthus: Hit the mark, did I?

Yuri: I don't know whether you hit the mark or missed it entirely. But your story was a cute one regardless. The truth is, I've been trying to sort out who I am. And, well... I haven't been successful in it. I don't even know whether my mother is truly my birth mother... or why it is I have this Crest. At this point, I have nothing but speculations. Maybe I'll sink into my grave without ever knowing the truth.

Yuri was dying from an illness, but suddenly survived from an old man, who died afterward. Yuri bears the Major Crest of Aubin, and as stated in his ending with Byleth in non-CF routes, Yuri doesn't age. Yuri has longevity. He's a 1st generation Crest bearer like Jeralt. And that can ONLY happen from receiving blood DIRECTLY from a Nabatean. 

Also, Balthus's Relics aren't fake. It is a genuine Relic, but believed to be a fake. Because to repair the gauntlets, you require Umbral Steel. Compared to Aymr, which requires Agarthium. And said Gauntlets turn you into a Demonic Beast. 

2 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

It is established that the Agarthans can make artificial crest stones. They're mostly used to create demonic beasts so it's not surprising that they might have advanced enough to make an artificial crest of the beast. Besides, it's incredibly unlikely that the Nabateans were walking around with two or more hearts, that would've been stated and they would've made multiple weapons out of each in that case.

Yes, I am aware that Demonic Beasts have artificial Crest Stones. The problem is that there's no evidence to suggest that Aymr is using an artificial Crest Stone. This is because the Dark Creator Stone has 2 Crest Stones that are of Noa and Timotheos. If they can create artificial Crest Stones, why use those two and not just forge an artificial one that bears the Crest of Flames on it?

Yes, the Agarthans advanced their tech, but they have not yet reached the full level of forgoing the need for actual Crest Stones. Because actual Crest Stones would hold much more power than artificial ones. 

Also, I am not saying that dragons have multiple hearts. What I AM saying is that there is a possibility that multiple dragons had the same Crest. If humans can inherit Crests, why can't Nabatean offsprings? Flayn's Crest might very well be from her mother. 

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Okay, so make all this clear.

Amyr is the weapon that essentially works like a Hero's Relic that is a fake one (like the Dark Version of the weapons in Verdant Wind), needing Agarthium to be repaired (instead of more... "natural" material), but these weapons still need a Crest to actually work.

Right?

And about the topic of multiple copies of Crests... I think one way to answer this is to ask IS or KT about's Flayn's Mother's Crest.

Edited by Troykv
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So that’s pure head canon nothing says multiple Nabateans have the same crest. And nothing you keep repeating proves Aubin wasn’t killed and turned into a heroes relic recently. Saying Yuri got his crest with in his life is obvious. But your missing my point the Mach war with the the ring being found was 5 years ago. Yuri is 20 years old pre time skip. 
 

@Troykv yeah I suppose. 

Edited by Julian Solo
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Just now, Julian Solo said:

So that’s pure head canon nothing says multiple Nabateans have the same crest. And nothing you keep repeating proves Aubin wasn’t killed and turned into a heroes relic recently. Saying Yuri got his crest with in his life is obvious. But your missing my point the Mach war with the the ring being found was 5 years ago. Yuri is 20 years old pre time skip. 

We have 2 Crest Stones of Maurice. Nothing says that Aymr's Crest Stone of Maurice is artificial by ANY means. That's headcanon. 

Also, did you pay close attention to WHEN the Fetters of Dromi was in Dagda's hands? 

Quote

Duke Gerth: These are the Fetters of Dromi. They draw upon the power of the Crest of Aubin. It's a priceless treasure that ended up in Dagda. After the truce, they sent it to us in friendship.

Byleth: Why did Dagda have a Hero's Relic?

Duke Gerth: One story holds that Saint Seiros subjugated the 10 Elites and the clans who followed them. There may have been a few clan elders who fled across the sea to escape suppression.

Do you see this? This goes to show that the Fetters of Dromi existed since the War of Heroes. 

And Yuri got his Crest when he was a kid. And the one that gave him the Crest is potentially Aubin himself. 

Meaning that the Apostle Aubin and the dragon that the Fetters of Dormi was made from are NOT the same being.

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This game is all about trauma and how people handle it. It is something that unites Rhea, Dimitri and Edelgard. May all handle it differently, but are all greatly affected by what happened to them. 

I ultimately think that not moving on is unhealthy, I don't necessarily blame for it, but Rhea's inability to let go as driven her closer and closer to the edge of madness as the years gone by. I sympathise with her missing mother, but I also don't think her obsession with bringing her back is healthy, especially not when she's basically resorting to necromancy. I do actually feel sorry for Rhea, but ultimately what has to be done must be done. Even Edelgard expressed that she would prefer if Rhea just gave up and stepped down from power, that is actually the primary issue here. Rhea's unstable mental state is a danger to others because of her position.

However harsh it might sound, Edelgard is ultimately right in what she tells Byleth after Jeralt's death. It is not healthy to obsess with loss and we do need to find the will to move on and live on like usual, for the sake of our own well-being. 

I guess it is also uncertain if Edelgard has truly moved on from her trauma, it is more like she tends to channel it into her dedication to change the world, which does fit her message of turning loss into something productive. But it can also give her tunnel vision at times as it can make her overly focused on her goals. 

I can actually fully sympathise with both Edelgard and Rhea. Even if in a situation where I had to choose one of them. I would pick Edelgard. I think that Rhea needs lots of help. At least I get the impression that Edelgard is more likely to spare Rhea than vice versa. Given their track record. 

I understand it is difficult, but Rhea just need to let go of the past. 

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8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

We have 2 Crest Stones of Maurice. Nothing says that Aymr's Crest Stone of Maurice is artificial by ANY means. That's headcanon. 

Also, did you pay close attention to WHEN the Fetters of Dromi was in Dagda's hands? 

Do you see this? This goes to show that the Fetters of Dromi existed since the War of Heroes. 

And Yuri got his Crest when he was a kid. And the one that gave him the Crest is potentially Aubin himself. 

Meaning that the Apostle Aubin and the dragon that the Fetters of Dormi was made from are NOT the same being.

That says may and we know Aubin was alive after the war of heroes. May isn’t definite specially in three houses. 
 

Aymr isn’t a heroes relic. It’s not even made from Nabatean bones. 

Edited by Julian Solo
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Just now, Julian Solo said:

That says may and we know Aubin was alive after the war of heroes. 

Aymr isn’t a heroes relic. It’s not even made from Nabatean bones. 

If anything, this only proves that the Fetters of Dromi existed long before the Apostle Aubin actually died. Otherwise, you are assuming that Aubin saved Yuri, died, got turned into a Relic, said Relic somehow ended up in Dagda, had a legend created about when it arrived there, all in less than two decades. 

Do you see the problem with the logic there?

The Fetters of Dormi is NOT made from the Apostle Aubin. Aubin died by giving his blood to Yuri to save his life. The Fetters of Dormi had to have been made from another dragon that had the same Crest as Aubin. For an entire legend to have been created about it means that it has been there for a long while.

Aymr, the weapon itself isn't made from dragons. But the CREST STONE is of Maurice. You are trying to headcanon that it's artificial, but where's your evidence of that? 

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1 minute ago, Julian Solo said:

That says may and we know Aubin was alive after the war of heroes. 
 

Aymr isn’t a heroes relic. It’s not even made from Nabatean bones. 

To my understanding it was made by the Agarthans specifically for Edelgard. What do you think it is made of? It does really look like bone. Maybe something that was taken from the holy tomb Raid? The Agarthans has made such weapons in the past as they created the original relics. I guess they can do it again.

It also seems to move like it was alive, really strange weapon. But it is obvious from its properties. It is some type of dragonslayer.

Is Aymr even attuned to any crest? If it is it must be either the Crest of Seiros or the Crest of Flames. 

My guess would be that crest's among the Nabateans runs in bloodlines like the do with humans. If they have the blood of dragons. Granted, it does seem like Sothis and Rhea have different crests despite being mother and daughter. I think I read somewhere that Seteth is the brother of Rhea, but I am not sure where I saw that. 

I am also not entirely unconvinced that Edelgard and the other Imperial nobles are actually direct descendants of Seiros and the Saints.   

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Just now, omegaxis1 said:

If anything, this only proves that the Fetters of Dromi existed long before the Apostle Aubin actually died. Otherwise, you are assuming that Aubin saved Yuri, died, got turned into a Relic, said Relic somehow ended up in Dagda, had a legend created about when it arrived there, all in less than two decades. 

Do you see the problem with the logic there?

The Fetters of Dormi is NOT made from the Apostle Aubin. Aubin died by giving his blood to Yuri to save his life. The Fetters of Dormi had to have been made from another dragon that had the same Crest as Aubin. For an entire legend to have been created about it means that it has been there for a long while.

Aymr, the weapon itself isn't made from dragons. But the CREST STONE is of Maurice. You are trying to headcanon that it's artificial, but where's your evidence of that? 

Nothing says that it is a legend dude. Duke Gerth just said An elite might have had it when they escaped to Dagda. He is speculating. That is obvious. Duke gerth wasn’t alive 1200 years ago. If Edelgard didn’t know what the relics where made of there is zero chance a duke of the empire does. 
 

Dude it’s not a heroes relic it’s not made of the same material even. Aymr is fake. All the evidence points to being fake as we know how the real relics are made. 
 
I have no idea why you think there disproving my point there are more stones when. There is no evidence of that but multiple of the slithers made fake ones.  
 


 

 

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