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GrandeRampel

Let's come up with ideas for Fallen Heroes banners and Redeemed Heroes banners (SPOILERS FOR THE ENTIRE SERIES)

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This topic is for discussing and confronting ideas about candidates for Fallen Heroes banners. And since Ike opened the door for what ifs, don't limite yourself to what canonically happened in the lore of the games. The only thing I ask is to come up with reasonable reasons as to why someone became evil in this alternate universe, and not generic ones that could work for anyone.

Like anyone from Tellius (except the herons, Mist and Elena) would become crazy if they touch the medallion, so you need to give a very good explanation for why exactly Shinon out of everyone touched the medallion.

In the same way any girl from Echoes can be made a Witch, so why single out Witch Mathilda in particular? Why Risen Queen Olivia when it could have been Sumia among others? Why exactly did Anankos decide to possess Mozu?

 

Now here's what I came up with.

1) Valla's King Gunther: Self explanatory. Gunther from the end of Revelation

2) Risen King Chrom: Chrom as a Risen, based on a Cipher card

3) Possessed Lilith: From the Hidden Truths DLC

4) Possessed Mikoto (Sumeragi and Arete are an odd case, because they only ever appear as their possessed selves like Garon, so exactly like Garon I expect them to be GHBs on regular Fates banners, which disqualifies them) : Her appearance in Revelation

5) Berserk Greil: Based on that one time he touched the medallion

6) Possessed Scarlet: Based on her appearance as Anankos' puppet corpse in Revelation

7) Feral Male Kana: Based on her paralogue and the fact we got Feral Corrin

8 ) Feral Female Kana: Same as above

9) King of Delusion Dimitri: Based on how insane he is after the time skip. I assume Legendary Dimitri will be after he regains his sanity, and we need a Boar Dimitri consider the big role that part of him plays in Three Houses

10) Hegemon Edelgard: Based on her appearance as the final boss of Azure Moon

11) Crazy Rhea: Based on her appearance as the final boss of Silver Snow

12) Male Morgan from Future Past: This one is an interesting case since he is more disguided than anything else, but I think he still counts

13) Female Morgan from Future Past: Same as above

14) Witch Rinea: Kind of cheating, but she isn't her own unit at the moment and could totally be

15) Witch Sonya: Since her ending kind of implied she will one day meet the same fate as her sisters this is the perfect example of a total what if that has some basis in canon

16) Witch Tatiana: She was about to get sacrificed when we saved her, so she makes a bit more sense as a what if than just any other girl in Echoes

17) Necrodragon Myrrh: Based on the fate her father Morva met. Can make sense as a What-If the Demon King won scenario. If we open up to what-ifs the possibilities are endless.

18) Black Fang Nino: A grown-up Nino from a what if the Black Fang wasn't defeated and she ended up becoming a skilled assassin and one of the Four Fangs scenario.

19) Degenerated Naga: What if Naga ended up the same way as Duma, Mila and Anankos. Shout-out to iturbide's blog on Tumblr for coming up with this interesting concept.

20) Evil Prince Seliph: Hey, you guys want a Seliph alt right? How about a what if in which he is captured as a child and brainwashed by the Loptous cult?

21) Tyrant Chaos Goddess Yune: A what if in which Yune is evil and we find out a megalomaniac Chaos Goddess is just as bad a megalomaniac Order one.

 

And now for something completely different, how about the opposite of a Fallen Heroes Banner? A banner of villains back when they were good people, or from a what ifs in which they changed their minds for a believable reason. The only rule is that Villains that actually appear as a good guy in the games are disqualified because that version could easily fit a regular banner unit (like Hardin or Zephiel). Ideally the character should only appear briefly as a good person (like Sumeragi after we kill him in Revelation) or maybe we are only told that they used to be good (like Julius and Garon).

Stuff like:

1) Young Garon: Xander confirms in a support that Garon used to be a good person

2) Young Julius: Both Julia and Ishtar confirm that Julius used to be nice

3) Actual Monica: Not Kronya in disguise, which appears in the game and could appear as a Kronya alt in a 3H banner. No, I'm talking about the poor girl that got kidnapped.

4) Actual Tomas: Same as above

5) Actual Arundel: Same as above

6) Actual Cornelia: Same as above

7) Alive Sumeragi: For the reason he doesn't count for a Fallen Heroes theme, he absolutely counts for this theme

8 ) Alive Arete: Same as above

9) Not-Crazy Medeus: He used to be an ally of Naga and helped her defeat the other Earth Dragons. Then stuff happened

10) Not-Crazy Nergal: We are told by Athos that he used to be a swell guy, but then his wife died and he went crazy

11) Not-Cursed Valter: This is a weird case since according to Duessel he was ruthless even as a sane man, but hey I guess he counts

12) Alive Vigarde: He used to be a good emperor before he died and came back wrong

13) Alive Nemesis: Another weird case since we don't know if he was ever good, but if confront him as a final boss with him in the opening cutscene, he used to be more sane

 

And that's my list. It seems pretty complete, but I'm sure you guys will come up with ideas that will make me go "of course! How could I not think of that" and that's the point of this kind of topics.

But before I pass the baton to you guys I won't to mention a couple more weird cases. First Ashnard. We don't know yet if we will get his berserk version, but I assume we will. That leaves us with a regular version that is a similar case to Nemesis and Valter, but in reality it isn't. Beacause unlike them his Not-Crazy version is still evil enough to be the big bad of an entire game.

Then we have Anankos. Depending on his appearance in his debut Mythic banner, his sane/crazy version would be a good fit for this topic.

Edited by GrandeRampel

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I'd had some ideas...

1. Gustav could easily fit here. He's as fallen as they come.

2. Darios from Fire Emblem Warriors is another one.

3. Does Kishuna (the magic seal from FE7) fit here? I feel like he would.

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1 minute ago, Michelaar said:

I'd had some ideas...

1. Gustav could easily fit here. He's as fallen as they come.

2. Darios from Fire Emblem Warriors is another one.

3. Does Kishuna (the magic seal from FE7) fit here? I feel like he would.

1. Good idea, we could get his regular version in a Heroes OC banner and then his fallen version

2. Another good idea, but I feel it's just as likely that we will get his possessed version first.

3. Not really in the Fallen list because we only ever see him like that in the game, so if anything he should be a regular GHB like Garon. But I suppose he could fit the other list.

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Fallen:

Rajaion

Risen King Chrom

Hegemon Husk

Rhea

GHB - Ena

 

Redeemed:

Nasir

Dimitri

OG Greil

White Queen Edelgard (This one is an original concept on my part, as regular time skip Edelgard heavily reminds me of Alice in Wonderland's Red Queen)

GHB: Pelleas

Edited by Etheus

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Another idea is Muarim in RD in the few moments where he was about to go nuts from Izuka's feral drug. He's kind of a minor character though. Still, he'd add a beast unit which isn't all that common.

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The Deadlords my dude

Mus (Raydrick)

Bovis (Galzus)

Tigris (Dagdar)

Draco (Eyvel)

Anguilla (Tailtiu)

Equus (Saias)

Gallus (Veld)

Canis (Sara)

Porcus (Lifis)

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17 minutes ago, CatManThree said:

The Deadlords my dude

Mus (Raydrick)

Bovis (Galzus)

Tigris (Dagdar)

Draco (Eyvel)

Anguilla (Tailtiu)

Equus (Saias)

Gallus (Veld)

Canis (Sara)

Porcus (Lifis)

Jugdral is a bit a weak spot in term of my knowledge of the lore of the world. I also thought about Lewyn because apparently he gets possessed by a dragon or something. I'd rather let the experts talk about stuff I'm not too familiar with. The deadlords you mentioned sound like a good fit.

18 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Another idea is Muarim in RD in the few moments where he was about to go nuts from Izuka's feral drug. He's kind of a minor character though. Still, he'd add a beast unit which isn't all that common.

Oh, this is a great idea actually. I thought again and again if I should include a what-if laguz that went feral but I couldn't decide who. I completely forgot anout that scene with Muarim.

1 hour ago, Etheus said:

Fallen:

Rajaion

Risen King Chrom

Hegemon Husk

Rhea

GHB - Ena

 

Redeemed:

Nasir

Dimitri

OG Greil

White Queen Edelgard (This one is an original concept on my part, as regular time skip Edelgard heavily reminds me of Alice in Wonderland's Red Queen)

GHB: Pelleas

Rajaion as his own unit would be dope, but I'm not sure if I see how Ena and Nasir fit the theme. Just because they conspired and allied with Ashnard? It wasn't really because they wanted, neither were they brainwashed to do evil. If I were to consider them EVIL, then someone like Petra in Azure Moon/Verdant Wind would also be EVIL simply because she sided with the wrong crowd. I don't agree with that.

Edited by GrandeRampel

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5 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Jugdral is a bit a weak spot in term of my knowledge of the lore of the world. I also thought about Lewyn because apparently he gets possessed by a dragon or something. I'd rather let the experts talk about stuff I'm not too familiar with. The deadlords you mentioned sound like a good fit.

Oh, this is a great idea actually. I thought again and again if I should include a what-if laguz that went feral but I couldn't decide who. I completely forgot anout that scene with Muarim.

Rajaion as his own unit would be dope, but I'm not sure if I see how Ena and Nasir fit the theme. Just because they conspired and allied with Ashnard? It wasn't really because they wanted, neither were they brainwashed to do evil. If I were to consider them EVIL, then someone like Petra in Azure Moon/Verdant Wind would also be EVIL simply because she sided with the wrong crowd. I don't agree with that.

Well, Nasir absolutely fits the redeemed theme, as he does betray his comrades, and then redeem himself at the end.

 

Ena doesn't quite fit the fallen theme, but neither does Ashnard - Ashnard was never even perceived as good. It's why I put her in the GHB slot so she won't need to participate in the FB convos.

Edited by Etheus

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7 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Jugdral is a bit a weak spot in term of my knowledge of the lore of the world. I also thought about Lewyn because apparently he gets possessed by a dragon or something. I'd rather let the experts talk about stuff I'm not too familiar with. The deadlords you mentioned sound like a good fit.

He wasn't possessed, he was placed under contract with Forseti. Basically, Forseti raised Lewyn from the dead and instructed him to do his bidding. Lewyn's life has ended, and therefore has no right to return to his former life or anything. His entire existence is to obey the commands of Forseti, and once those commands are all completed he disappears as his contract has ended. Its made apparent that it is the real Lewyn in a conversation he has with Tine if she is his daughter where he tears up following hearing of his wife's fate. All this was also confirmed by Kaga in an interview.

Edited by CatManThree

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Actual Tomas would be a DS unit.  😛

Anyway, my votes go to Brainwashed Deirdre and Vigarde.  For the "villains who are not", add Orson.

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Plenty of good suggestions here.

For a Fallen GHB unit, I think a good one would be Bertram.

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53 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Actual Tomas would be a DS unit.  😛

Anyway, my votes go to Brainwashed Deirdre and Vigarde.  For the "villains who are not", add Orson.

Wouldn't Orson be a better candidate for a Fallen banner than a Redeemed one?

 

18 minutes ago, Jave said:

Plenty of good suggestions here.

For a Fallen GHB unit, I think a good one would be Bertram.

Yes!

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3 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Wouldn't Orson be a better candidate for a Fallen banner than a Redeemed one?

Orson before the fall of Renais.  Sounds like he was a stand-up guy.

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some fallen heroes i'd like to see

Reyson, Fallen Heron: a version of Reyson who completely gave in to hatred and despair, thus going against his nature, and managed to use the forbidden spell to kill all beorcs

Julius, Bringer of Destruction: basically the same concept as Fallen Lyon, except he would be a colorless dragon Mythic Hero, kinda like Female Robin was: he just needs an upgraded version

Makalov, Corrupted Gambler: a version of Makalov who never got recruited by Marcia, thus never meeting with Astrid, because his sister was never saved by the Greil Mercenaries: he loses both his mind and body due to all the money he lost, and Marcia got killed because he couldn't pay the debt collectors

fallen versions of manaketes and dragons such as Duma (canon)Rhea (canon) and Almedha

Almedha, A Mother's Sorrow: she loses her newly found son Pelleas due to the Blood Pact, causing her to give in to chaos and go berserk

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Orson would be awesome in any way shape or form, same for Bertram/Renning.

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Anyway, my votes go to Brainwashed Deirdre

Isn't the Deirdre we have in Heroes already her brainwashed self? She doesn't remember Sigurd if I'm not wrong.

3 minutes ago, Yexin said:

Almedha, A Mother's Sorrow: she loses her newly found son Pelleas due to the Blood Pact, causing her to give in to chaos and go berserk

To be fair Almedha would be a non-threat even after giving in to chaos since she can't shift anymore. To properly represent this in Heroes, she would need to have the lowest BST in the game. xD

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1 minute ago, GrandeRampel said:

Isn't the Deirdre we have in Heroes already her brainwashed self? She doesn't remember Sigurd if I'm not wrong.

Sort of?  It looks like she's knows that there's something wrong with her, which isn't quite like her reunion with Sigurd before the first generation's end.

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48 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

To be fair Almedha would be a non-threat even after giving in to chaos since she can't shift anymore. To properly represent this in Heroes, she would need to have the lowest BST in the game. xD

i mean she's a dragon laguz, not Jagen, so she would not have a laughably low BST

also, IntSys already made lesser known units incredibly more powerful if compared to what they can do in their original games (Karla to name one)

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1 minute ago, Yexin said:

i mean she's a dragon laguz, not Jagen, so she would not have a laughably low BST

also, IntSys already made lesser known units incredibly more powerful if compared to what they can do in their original games (Karla to name one)

I meant that being the mother of a branded she should have lost all her powers canonically, but I guess we could make a redeemed version of her in which she never married Ashnard.

 

And I came up with another idea.

Fallen Marianne who became a beast after using Blutgang too much, like Maurice. Instead of the Survivor of the Curse, she is the Victim of Curse. Plus it's an excuse to have one more beast unit.

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2 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

And I came up with another idea.

Fallen Marianne who became a beast after using Blutgang too much, like Maurice. Instead of the Survivor of the Curse, she is the Victim of Curse. Plus it's an excuse to have one more beast unit.

Ooh, that could be fun. Could even be an armored beast.

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4 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

To be fair Almedha would be a non-threat even after giving in to chaos since she can't shift anymore. To properly represent this in Heroes, she would need to have the lowest BST in the game. xD

Elincia:
“Pelleas is so fragile compared to his mother. Actually, they don’t seem anything alike. That Almedha is a formidable woman.”

Tibarn:
“At first I doubted her claim that she was the daughter of that useless old lizard. But even I had trouble holding her down. Me! She’s no ordinary beorc woman, that’s for sure.”

There, I've found a potential Gauntlet user not a ragged 3H man.

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1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Elincia:
“Pelleas is so fragile compared to his mother. Actually, they don’t seem anything alike. That Almedha is a formidable woman.”

Tibarn:
“At first I doubted her claim that she was the daughter of that useless old lizard. But even I had trouble holding her down. Me! She’s no ordinary beorc woman, that’s for sure.”

There, I've found a potential Gauntlet user not a ragged 3H man.

Ok, what's up with Fire Emblem and making the dragon mommies the ones who punch stuff real hard. Between her and Rhea it can't be a coincidence.

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4 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

 

Ok, what's up with Fire Emblem and making the dragon mommies the ones who punch stuff real hard. Between her and Rhea it can't be a coincidence.

She went from dragon laguz to mama bear!  😛

5 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

It's a pretty big what-if scenario, but how about Micaiah or Sanaki who were indoctrinated by the Senate? Or taken over by Ashera instead of being an avatar of Yune like Micaiah ends up being.

Hmmmm.

At that point, I'd rather have Sephiran as his full-on destroy-the-world self.

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The ones that I could see next year are. Valite King Gunter, Risen King Chrom, Hagemon Edelgard, Berserk Rhea, Medalion Greil. The GHB would be the least popular in the next CYL male because this is IS. 

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