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How come Promoted Dark Magic users can use staves?

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I just thought about this while I had Niime heal up someone.

How come Dark Magic users can use staves, when the essence of these two powers is essentially Yin and Yang, holy and unholy? I would understand if it happens before they promote as they only recently start to research into dark magic and this magic is less demanding of them, but as we know in the GBA games, Dark Magic consumes you while you look further into it, and if you don't have enough will power you can forget who you are as it happened to Nergal.

So being a Druid means you are further indulged in the arts and then it would make less sense for them to use it? Or does being a Druid show that you have a strong enough will to not let it consume you?

My theory is that utilizing staves comes from wanting to help others, and that this is a great way to keep your humanity intact while dark mages study more about their powers, maybe that's why they gain access to staves? Sort of like a "It's dangerous to keep going on, so take this staff!"

Thoughts?

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Never thought about it that way makes sense but there are things like the berserk staff silence and sleep which are all staffs that have negative effects on the target. So maybe there is a kinda 2 sides to staffs being either good and bad. What would the warp staff be I wonder. 

 But most dark magic users we get haven't had there humanity destroyed (at least not yet) so maybe your on to something. 

 

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1 minute ago, Shrimp Boat said:

but there are things like the berserk staff silence and sleep which are all staffs that have negative effects on the target. So maybe there is a kinda 2 sides to staffs being either good and bad.

Actually that is true, it would be interesting if they were locked to only druids but I think maybe the game would be less fun to play if you can't easily use these staves (until you get your pre-promote that is). The Sleep staff though, that can probably be used to cure insomnia which is a positive side of it.

3 minutes ago, Shrimp Boat said:

What would the warp staff be I wonder.

It is interesting, I don't think it's really evil or good... it just depends on whether you use it to warp your arch nemesis 100 feet into the air or if to get someone to somewhere faster. I imagine the warp staff is so expensive it would only be used as an artifact of war though.

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7 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

The Sleep staff though, that can probably be used to cure insomnia which is a positive side of it.

Sleep staff is basically long range sleeping pills.

12 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

I imagine the warp staff is so expensive it would only be used as an artifact of war though.

I mean you find it in middle of the desert in FE6 and 8. Imagine if we could buy a unlimited amount of warp staffs though, now that would be epic.

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5 minutes ago, Shrimp Boat said:

Sleep staff is basically long range sleeping pills.

Sort of, I mean I don't know how good those are because I've never taken one but given the fact most citizens would have 0 Res, and a helaer would be right next to the person, the sleep staff would be extremely accurate and functional. Then again, it only works for 5 turns, and how long is a turn varies between games.

7 minutes ago, Shrimp Boat said:

Imagine if we could buy a unlimited amount of warp staffs though, now that would be epic.

It would, but I don't think they would be cheap at all, even with massive industrialization being a thing... or who knows, maybe Warp Staffs would be easy to create in a society like ours...

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I doubt there's really anything very complex regarding staffs, their existence, and usage.

If you want to label them anything, I'd just say they're a neutral force, considering the wide array of effect magic that are placed in them instead of a tome. At least in games that permit them.

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12 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Salem can use staffs just fine before promotion.

I didn't know that, but still... if staves were light then how come he can use it?

9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

If you want to label them anything, I'd just say they're a neutral force, considering the wide array of effect magic that are placed in them instead of a tome. At least in games that permit them.

Perhaps, but it's weird because every cleric ever (as in, only indulged in staves) is always presented as this holy person. Heck even Light Magic users get a bigger staff rank promotion in GBA games, where it's bumped to C. This makes me wonder if they are really not affiliated with one type of magic.

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About staffs. Certain staffs would be used by certain classes. Ex;

- Bishop/Valkyrie use Heal staff but other classes don't

- Druid use Berserker, Sleep staff

- and so on ...v...v.....

Edited by Hong Nhi

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4 minutes ago, Hong Nhi said:

About staffs. Certain staffs would be use by certain classes. Ex;

- Bishop/Valkyrie use Heal staff but other classes don't

- Druid use Berserker, Sleep staff

- and so on ...v...v.....

That would be cool, Light Staves, Dark Staves, Anima Staves and so on.

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Staffs aren't Light or Dark. Staffs are staffs.

Unless it's Berwick Saga, which has no separate Staff category. Healing and status effects are part of Light and Dark magic. There is even stuff like Dark Heal.

Edited by BrightBow

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1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

Staffs aren't Light or Dark. Staffs are staffs.

I guess, I mean I thought that there was a reason why it was always related to holyness and such, atleast in the GBA games. And thus maybe that's why light magic users have an easier time learning staves? (I mean they get C rank on promotion, again, in the GBA games)

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6 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

That would be cool, Light Staves, Dark Staves, Anima Staves and so on.

I get which staffs would go in light or dark but besides maybe warp what would go in Anima. Maybe Anima staffs could boost resistance to a certain type of Anima magic (wind,fire,thunder) by a ton or just reduce the damage taken by said magic by a % amount. What would be cool though is Anima staffs that could allow unpremoted staff locked units to kinda retaliate with some kind of low Mt magic attack. That would be a cool thing to add in a new game.

Though training 3 diffrent staff ranks would be a pain so maybe not.  

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16 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Perhaps, but it's weird because every cleric ever (as in, only indulged in staves) is always presented as this holy person. Heck even Light Magic users get a bigger staff rank promotion in GBA games, where it's bumped to C. This makes me wonder if they are really not affiliated with one type of magic

I do not think they are related, but staff-locked units are usually members of the clergy who get Light magic upon promotion or are light magic users who get staves on promotion; I believe that it is because the churches generally have an emphasis on healing>fighting, therefore they are more trained in the use of staves, although staves and light magic aren't related.

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23 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

I didn't know that, but still... if staves were light then how come he can use it?

Because they're not.

Except Torch Staff. Totally Light. *ba dum tush*

23 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Perhaps, but it's weird because every cleric ever (as in, only indulged in staves) is always presented as this holy person. Heck even Light Magic users get a bigger staff rank promotion in GBA games, where it's bumped to C. This makes me wonder if they are really not affiliated with one type of magic.

Because most of the time it correlates to them being members of the local religions, which is mostly a sign of artificial labeling. Through the franchise, however, there are examples of otherwise. Would you consider someone like Riev to be Holy or Good, despite his usage of Light Magic and Staves?

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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6 minutes ago, Shrimp Boat said:

I get which staffs would go in light or dark but besides maybe warp what would go in Anima.

Everything in between would be anima I guess. Anything that ills you is Dark, if it heals you it's Light and then Warp, Rescue, Barrier all of those could be the Anima staves

6 minutes ago, Shrimp Boat said:

Though training 3 diffrent staff ranks would be a pain so maybe not. 

True.

5 minutes ago, Benice said:

I believe that it is because the churches generally have an emphasis on healing>fighting, therefore they are more trained in the use of staves, although staves and light magic aren't related.

But how is light magic not related to holy? We even have a tome called "Divine" and you may think "Well that's just a name" but Anima magic is the magic of nature and stuff and all of the tomes are called accordingly "Fire, Thunder, Wind, Fimbulvetr (which is blizzard in old norwegian iirc), etc. Only exception being Excalibur or Sagittae from what I remember. That makes me wonder what "Flux" is though.

Edited by This boi uses Nino

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7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Would you consider someone like Riev to be Holy or Good, despite his usage of Light Magic and Staves?

Well he is not good, but he is indulged in holy magic and staves. What does Riev being morally good or not have to do with the topic? It's simply about how aren't staves affiliated with Light magic, when they so obviously are hinted at it, gameplay wise and storywise.

(Was ninja'ed, so I doubleposted)

Edited by This boi uses Nino

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Just now, This boi uses Nino said:

But how is light magic not related to holy? We even have a tome called "Divine" and you may think "Well that's just a name" but Anima magic is the magic of nature and stuff and all of the tomes are called accordingly "Fire, Thunder, Wind, Fimbulvetr (which is blizzard in old norwegian iirc), etc. Only exception being Excalibur or Sagittae from what I remember.

Ah, I believe you misundertood what I was saying.

As with Brightbow, I meant that staves were their own, individual school of magic; hence why anima spellcasters get them too; however, light magic is directly correlated with the deities, and its practitioners generally value healing and love over fighting and hatred; hence, they are more trained in the use of staves than more combat-focused schools of magic are.

7 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

That makes me wonder what "Flux: is though

Flux tape.

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I don't think magical proficiency or attunement has anything to do with moral or even elemental alignment. It's all about knowledge and proficiency and staves clearly are a separate line of proficiency from magic, including light magic. It wasn't until 3 Houses that healing and light magic became officially connected.

 

Even light magic users like Micaiah, Artur, Lucius, etc. have to learn staff usage on promotion.

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4 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Even light magic users like Micaiah, Artur, Lucius, etc. have to learn staff usage on promotion.

Well I don't know about Micaiah, but Artur and Lucius get a headstart, maybe because staves have to do with light magic and their knowledge of light magic helps in utilizing a staff? Kind of like Speaking Spanish and trying to learn Italian?

4 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

It wasn't until 3 Houses that healing and light magic became officially connected.

Oh and I had forgotten about that, lol.

@Benice 

Quote

however, light magic is directly correlated with the deities, and its practitioners generally value healing and love over fighting and hatred; hence, they are more trained in the use of staves than more combat-focused schools of magic are.

A reasonable theory I suppose.

Quote

Flux tape.

Hehe maybe that's why its like a glue-y liquid and black

Edited by This boi uses Nino

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1 minute ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Well I don't know about Micaiah, but Artur and Lucius get a headstart, maybe because staves have to do with light magic and their knowledge of light magic helps in utilizing a staff? Kind of like Speaking Spanish and trying to learn Italian?

Oh and I had forgotten about that, lol.

Micaiah gets C rank staff on promotion i think and if i remember correctly so do Artur and Lucius. 

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2 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Thoughts?

What makes you so sure it's Light Magic? It could very well be Earth magic. Using natural elements to heal one's injuries.

Or if ya REALLY wanna dig deeper. It could even be dark in its own right. Repairing the damage of allies so that they may continue fight for you. Doesn't seem as noble as healing someone because you genuinely care about them.

After all you can get the same result from different means so it wouldn't surprise me if it was any combination of the three or something silly like that.

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Honestly, it's telling that the very first game, which had no distinction on its magic types, still had staves as a separate thing. You could even say it was because the divide was more "Offensive and Utility" magic, than any sort of element. Something which continued in Valentia, since the very light Aura and Seraphim are Black Magic, grouped with the other offensive magic, including those that would be dark in other games. Although then you could say the divide was "Elemental and non-elemental".

As it is, in-game, I still stand staves was were they dumped the non-elemental magic for most of the series... or those they couldn't discern an element from.

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32 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

But how is light magic not related to holy? We even have a tome called "Divine" and you may think "Well that's just a name" but Anima magic is the magic of nature and stuff and all of the tomes are called accordingly "Fire, Thunder, Wind, Fimbulvetr (which is blizzard in old norwegian iirc), etc. Only exception being Excalibur or Sagittae from what I remember. That makes me wonder what "Flux" is though.

25 minutes ago, Benice said:

Flux tape.

22 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Hehe maybe that's why its like a glue-y liquid and black

 

I got curious and looked up the definition of Flux i got this in the medical definition  

Quote

an abnormal discharge of blood or other matter from or within the body.

If this is what the Flux spell is based off its kinda weird to think of someone like Canas causing someone internal bleeding to kill them doesn't look like something someone like Canas would do.  

 

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