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How come Promoted Dark Magic users can use staves?

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27 minutes ago, Light Strategist said:

What makes you so sure it's Light Magic?

Light magic users gain better staff rank upon promotion...

Clerics NEVER get Dark or Anima upon promotion, the way these two are lumped together makes me think they have some reason for being together.

17 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Something which continued in Valentia, since the very light Aura and Seraphim are Black Magic, grouped with the other offensive magic, including those that would be dark in other games. Although then you could say the divide was "Elemental and non-elemental".

Well I guess that's how it stands in Valentia, but I don't think that universe applies to FEGBA?

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Just now, This boi uses Nino said:

Well I guess that's how it stands in Valentia, but I don't think that universe applies to FEGBA?

Which goes back to my statement that each continent has its own way of labeling and categorizing magic.

Which is telling that almost all of them agree on keeping staves as their own thing. No one ever talks about the magic in staves being one or the other.

Which also brings up something to note about: that not every magic system will be the same. Kinda like how Nosferatu is even visually different depending on what element it decides to be at any given game.

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30 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Serra also claims that "only those in the service of good can use them", and... holy cow is that nonsense in-game.

She also lies about being very useful. Which she isn't. ūüėõ

@Acacia Sgt

Quote

Which is telling that almost all of them agree on keeping staves as their own thing. No one ever talks about the magic in staves being one or the other.

Perhaps you're right then

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57 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Clerics NEVER get Dark or Anima upon promotion, the way these two are lumped together makes me think they have some reason for being together.

Well, they can in Sacred Stones. (Sages are staves, Anima, Light)

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3 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:


How come Dark Magic users can use staves, when the essence of these two powers is essentially Yin and Yang, holy and unholy? 

To quote Canas "I’ve some skill with a form of elder magic… Some call it dark magic, a rather biased term, if I must be blunt." In Elibe, Dark magic isn't unholy, or the Yin to Light magic's (let alone staff magic's) Yang, its just the third competing  branch of magic, which got itself a bad name. I mean Sages gets staves too despite them using a competing magic as Mage without any comment.

I seem to remember Knoll having a similar sort of quote about dark magic not being evil, making me think Magvel is similar.

Tellius barely had dark magic, and its appearance is so begrudgingly included in Radiant Dawn, that I know next to nothing about it, other than it being extremely difficult to cast.

The Archanea games have an odd relationship with Dark Magic as they barely make a distinction between dark magic, and magics other than staff, with instead a more general Tome rank. Awakening makes the greatest distinction, but while only Dark Mages can use it, they can use all other magics just fine. There are some hints that different types of magic are tied to the orbs, but that is only clearly established by the strongest magics.

Jugdral Light and Dark magic do have a competing relationship, with Dark Magic tied to Loptyr and Light Magic to Naga, but staves aren't closely tied to Light magic like they are in the GBA and Tellius games.

I am going to avoid talking about Gaiden, Echoes, and Three Houses, as they have a different feel to their magic system.

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41 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

To quote Canas "I’ve some skill with a form of elder magic… Some call it dark magic, a rather biased term, if I must be blunt." In Elibe, Dark magic isn't unholy, or the Yin to Light magic's (let alone staff magic's) Yang, its just the third competing  branch of magic, which got itself a bad name. I mean Sages gets staves too despite them using a competing magic as Mage without any comment.

I seem to remember Knoll having a similar sort of quote about dark magic not being evil, making me think Magvel is similar.

Tellius barely had dark magic, and its appearance is so begrudgingly included in Radiant Dawn, that I know next to nothing about it, other than it being extremely difficult to cast.

The Archanea games have an odd relationship with Dark Magic as they barely make a distinction between dark magic, and magics other than staff, with instead a more general Tome rank. Awakening makes the greatest distinction, but while only Dark Mages can use it, they can use all other magics just fine. There are some hints that different types of magic are tied to the orbs, but that is only clearly established by the strongest magics.

Jugdral Light and Dark magic do have a competing relationship, with Dark Magic tied to Loptyr and Light Magic to Naga, but staves aren't closely tied to Light magic like they are in the GBA and Tellius games.

I am going to avoid talking about Gaiden, Echoes, and Three Houses, as they have a different feel to their magic system.

I see... thanks!

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4 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Light magic users gain better staff rank upon promotion...

Clerics NEVER get Dark or Anima upon promotion, the way these two are lumped together makes me think they have some reason for being together.

Well I guess that's how it stands in Valentia, but I don't think that universe applies to FEGBA?

We'll clerics don't, but priests do in Sacred Stones (where also via glitch anyone can use dark magic and ironically enough Moulder is one of the best choices for it. But that's neither here nor there). Troubadours, the other stave exclusive tier 1 unit also gets anima on promotion. So clerics going light without anima really bisnt insinuating anything at all.

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3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I seem to remember Knoll having a similar sort of quote about dark magic not being evil, making me think Magvel is similar.

He talks about sources of magic in his Natasha support:

Quote

Knoll: Hm… Well, I suppose you are right about that. Your magic stems from faith in the unknowable, the divine presence. In contrast, dark magic stems from knowledge, from understanding. We distrust what we do not understand, and we strive to know the unknowable. Perhaps our disciplines truly are incompatible.

A bit speculative on his part, but from what we know about Magvel's lore, it probably would've made sense if Druids and Summoner weren't be able to use staves.

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I don't believe that staves need to be considered light magic in the first place. Very few games in the series has dark magic = bad. Most have dark magic either not mentioned in detail, or just controversial. I think it'd be better if light and dark magic appeared more, so we could see the differences between the two in greater detail. 

I like to think best that staves are just regarded as neutral heal/support class magic. It makes classes like Falcoknight and Maid, who can use staves but aren't "light" or "dark" classes make more sense too. 

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Staves were never really portrayed as a holy thing in Fire Emblem though. Sure priests and priestesses use them but that's just cause of their healing properties and the fact that they don't really fight until they are promoted. Staves are simply another manner of casting specific other types of spells different from the usual.

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9 hours ago, Shrimp Boat said:

 

I got curious and looked up the definition of Flux i got this in the medical definition  

If this is what the Flux spell is based off its kinda weird to think of someone like Canas causing someone internal bleeding to kill them doesn't look like something someone like Canas would do.  

 

In Japanese, flux is call „Éü„ā£„Éę, which probably translates to mire. (Mire is called slime in jap fyi.)

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32 minutes ago, DukeBox said:

In Japanese, flux is call „Éü„ā£„Éę, which probably translates to mire. (Mire is called slime in jap fyi.)

Hey! I can actually read that: Mairu! It makes me wonder why not call it "Maieru" but I guess complicated diphtongs aren't a japanese thing.

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7 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Hey! I can actually read that: Mairu! It makes me wonder why not call it "Maieru" but I guess complicated diphtongs aren't a japanese thing.

That's Miiru, actually. With a long e sound, sort of.

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1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

That's Miiru, actually. With a long e sound, sort of.

Oh right! DOU how did I make such a mistake??? I can't believe myself.

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5 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Hey! I can actually read that: Mairu! It makes me wonder why not call it "Maieru" but I guess complicated diphtongs aren't a japanese thing.

It actually reads "Miiru", which is why I said probably. It could also translate as "mir", which is "peace" in various Slavic languages, though I highly doubt that's what they were going for lol.

Keep in mind that they are not native English speakers, so i could see them reading Mire as 'Meer' or 'Mi-re'.

This is all speculation by me though so take it with a grain of salt.

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Just now, DukeBox said:

It actually reads "Miiru", which is why I said probably. It could also translate as "mir", which is "peace" in various Slavic languages, though I highly doubt that's what they were going for lol.

Keep in mind that they are not native English speakers, so i could see them reading Mire as 'Meer' or 'Mi-re'.

This is all speculation by me though so take it with a grain of salt.

Yeah I realized that above... *.* I'm so dumb. Mir being peace is interesting... I feel like I saw some historical thing with mir on it and I didn't understand it a few months back.... don't remember what it was.

Oh yeah, but isn't japanese super literal with their sounds? So "i" is [ee]. and it would be read as "Mee-ru"? I mean, every Romanization I've seen always tries to recreate the phonetic sound rather than it's written form...

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FOr it's worth, at least in the GBA games, Flux's internal name is MistyRain.

Whether Mir/Miiru has any correlation to that... who knows.

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"How come Promoted Dark Magic users can use staves?"

To be consistent. Both Anima and Light magic users can use staves upon promotion therefore dark magic users should. There's no particular reason to even ponder this question. Regardless of the kind of magic they cast it doesn't take away from the ability of wielding a staff. Throughout the Fire Emblem franchise dark magic is recognized as ancient arcane magic older than Anima and Light magic. So it would make obvious sense for Druids and Dark Knights to wield staves.
 

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1 hour ago, Fernand said:

"How come Promoted Dark Magic users can use staves?"

To be consistent. Both Anima and Light magic users can use staves upon promotion therefore dark magic users should. There's no particular reason to even ponder this question. Regardless of the kind of magic they cast it doesn't take away from the ability of wielding a staff. Throughout the Fire Emblem franchise dark magic is recognized as ancient arcane magic older than Anima and Light magic. So it would make obvious sense for Druids and Dark Knights to wield staves.
 

Could you maybe write with a sane text font?

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(Hope two weeks is not a necropost, but I feel like I have something to add so I'll risk it.)

I believe it was Knoll who explained it best, Light vs dark magic is not a case of good vs evil, it's about where the magic comes from;

- Light magic comes from belief, believing in a higher power gives the spells their power.
- Dark magic comes from understanding, knowing the workings of the world gives spells their power.
- Anima magic comes from the spirits of nature, whatever that may mean.

We know from Micaiah in the prologue of RD (and the silence staff) that magic requires spoken word, spells. My bet is that each school of magic has a slightly different language. This explains why not any magic user can just pick up any kind of tome, you can't just read what the pages say without learning the language. (Unless you're Nino and simply remember all the words written in it phonetically.)

In RD, besides having a cutscene where Micaiah uses offensive magic, we also have a scene where a staff is used. Now if I remember correctly, Rhys doesn't say anything while using a staff, no spell of any kind. (currently can't check so I hope my memory isn't failing me.) This sort of makes sense to me as staves don't have written text like tomes do. This could mean that anyone with a high enough feeling for magic can use staves, there is no new language to be learned. 

Let's just explain staves being silenced by a silence spell by saying, it's magic?

I know this is a lot of cross-lore speculating, but it makes sense to me. dark mages start by only learning the how of magic, but while working with it develop a feel for magic and get to use staves. Clerics would be learning less about the technicalities of language and more about the feeling that comes with it, but later in their careers as church-people they learn to read the magic of the goddess.

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1 hour ago, whase said:

(Hope two weeks is not a necropost, but I feel like I have something to add so I'll risk it.)

I believe it was Knoll who explained it best, Light vs dark magic is not a case of good vs evil, it's about where the magic comes from;

- Light magic comes from belief, believing in a higher power gives the spells their power.
- Dark magic comes from understanding, knowing the workings of the world gives spells their power.
- Anima magic comes from the spirits of nature, whatever that may mean.

We know from Micaiah in the prologue of RD (and the silence staff) that magic requires spoken word, spells. My bet is that each school of magic has a slightly different language. This explains why not any magic user can just pick up any kind of tome, you can't just read what the pages say without learning the language. (Unless you're Nino and simply remember all the words written in it phonetically.)

In RD, besides having a cutscene where Micaiah uses offensive magic, we also have a scene where a staff is used. Now if I remember correctly, Rhys doesn't say anything while using a staff, no spell of any kind. (currently can't check so I hope my memory isn't failing me.) This sort of makes sense to me as staves don't have written text like tomes do. This could mean that anyone with a high enough feeling for magic can use staves, there is no new language to be learned. 

Let's just explain staves being silenced by a silence spell by saying, it's magic?

I know this is a lot of cross-lore speculating, but it makes sense to me. dark mages start by only learning the how of magic, but while working with it develop a feel for magic and get to use staves. Clerics would be learning less about the technicalities of language and more about the feeling that comes with it, but later in their careers as church-people they learn to read the magic of the goddess.

Staves having a language too is entirely possible. We don't get to see Rhys's face when he uses the stave in Radiant Dawn. You might say we'd hear him, but then we don't actually hear Soren say anything when he's clearly speaking to use magic. Then again on the other hand when people actually use magic in combat in most games they never really say thing but "huh" or something to use magic.

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