My Main Issue with Alm

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

If you don’t have an argument then stop talking to me genius.

I'm arguing because you have a point to make. Apparently. Still trying to grasp as to what it is though, because you're being really unclear.

4 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

There is no proof Rudolf beat Mila in Sov because we don’t see the fight. 

We see the start of it. Then we see Mila's dead corpse with Rudolf's sword embedded in its head. But if that's not good enough for you then here's an eye witness account.

Irma: I beg forgiveness, Your Highness. I had no idea the temple fell to the empire while I was prisoner. They took Mila…and Your Highness’s circlet as well. It’s unthinkable. They’re no knights— only blasphemers and thieves!

Celica: The Rigelians hold Mila captive?! You’re certain of this?

Irma: I am, Your Highness. Emperor Rudolf led the charge himself. Sealed her powers and took her away. To where, I fear I know not.

Oh and just in case you think there's any abiguity there as to what it means by Rudolf sealing her powers.

Celica: Oh no! What have you done?!

Mae: Sh-she’s been turned to stone!

Conrad: Look there! Piercing her brow! Is that…Falchion?

Jedah: You have a keen eye, boy. It is indeed the divine blade. You will likely doubt me when I say this, but that was Mila’s doing. The moment Emperor Rudolf sealed her power, Mila sealed away Falchion. Do not ask me her motive in this, for I understand it not. But no force in this world now remains which can harm Lord Duma. She’s left her children to their fates! Kyaaaaaa ha ha ha ha!

So yeah, every single person who was there agrees that Rudolf beat Mila. So unless you have any reference as to why Irma or Jedah are lying, it's your head canon that Rudolf didn't.

4 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

Gaiden isn’t Shadows of Valienta. 

I know. I neve said it was. What I said is that there's a plot hole in the original that the remake remedied.

4 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

Your trying to head canon a completely separate scenario of how the cast gets from before the game to literally the final dungeon and so your in no way shape or form giving any comprehensionable point.

What exactly do you think is my head canon here?

4 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

And even so you emitted to my point Mila helped Alm save Celica lmao. 

Yes, she did help. She only needed to help because of her own mistakes though, but the fact that she helped isn't anything that's ever been in dispute here nor anything anyone who has played the game is likely to ever dispute.

4 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

I never said Mila got powers from sealing Falchion know your just being a liar.

I'm not being a liar. I'm extrapolating the only logical conclusion of the statement you made "if Mila hadn’t sealed falchion and been there to help Alm and Celica would be dead". You said Celica would be dead if Mila hadn't both sealed the falchion and been there to help, when in reality sealing the Falchion has nothing to do with her being there to help. Unless you believe sealing the falchion gave her extra powers. Since you don't believe this, you're statement would need to be amended to "if Mila hadn't been there to help Celica would be dead." With the sealing of Falchion being completely irrelevant.

4 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

You need to replay SoV then because Duma on being defeated gives Alm his blessing to lead Valtienta and turns into the giant tree with Mila. 

I know. What makes you think I don't know?

[Julian Solo]

36 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm arguing because you have a point to make. Apparently. Still trying to grasp as to what it is though, because you're being really unclear.

We see the start of it. Then we see Mila's dead corpse with Rudolf's sword embedded in its head. But if that's not good enough for you then here's an eye witness account.

Irma: I beg forgiveness, Your Highness. I had no idea the temple fell to the empire while I was prisoner. They took Mila…and Your Highness’s circlet as well. It’s unthinkable. They’re no knights— only blasphemers and thieves!

Celica: The Rigelians hold Mila captive?! You’re certain of this?

Irma: I am, Your Highness. Emperor Rudolf led the charge himself. Sealed her powers and took her away. To where, I fear I know not.

Oh and just in case you think there's any abiguity there as to what it means by Rudolf sealing her powers.

Celica: Oh no! What have you done?!

Mae: Sh-she’s been turned to stone!

Conrad: Look there! Piercing her brow! Is that…Falchion?

Jedah: You have a keen eye, boy. It is indeed the divine blade. You will likely doubt me when I say this, but that was Mila’s doing. The moment Emperor Rudolf sealed her power, Mila sealed away Falchion. Do not ask me her motive in this, for I understand it not. But no force in this world now remains which can harm Lord Duma. She’s left her children to their fates! Kyaaaaaa ha ha ha ha!

So yeah, every single person who was there agrees that Rudolf beat Mila. So unless you have any reference as to why Irma or Jedah are lying, it's your head canon that Rudolf didn't.

I know. I neve said it was. What I said is that there's a plot hole in the original that the remake remedied.

What exactly do you think is my head canon here?

Yes, she did help. She only needed to help because of her own mistakes though, but the fact that she helped isn't anything that's ever been in dispute here nor anything anyone who has played the game is likely to ever dispute.

I'm not being a liar. I'm extrapolating the only logical conclusion of the statement you made "if Mila hadn’t sealed falchion and been there to help Alm and Celica would be dead". You said Celica would be dead if Mila hadn't both sealed the falchion and been there to help, when in reality sealing the Falchion has nothing to do with her being there to help. Unless you believe sealing the falchion gave her extra powers. Since you don't believe this, you're statement would need to be amended to "if Mila hadn't been there to help Celica would be dead." With the sealing of Falchion being completely irrelevant.

I know. What makes you think I don't know?

Dude Jeddah literally contradict himself. He said Falchion sealed her powers but she then sealed falchion away and turned to stone of her own free will. Nothing said Rudolf defeated her. Mila literally gives Alm falchion and guides him into what to do to save Celica. Why I think you don’t know is because everything you have said to me as proved the opposite of what you said. Alm just with Falchion given to him by his dad wouldn’t save Celica because you are assuming Alm would have trusted his blade not kill her without Milas help. Judging how you are the only one bring up Milas character flaws that seems like a you problem and irrelevant as she helps them anyway. Without Mila Alm wouldn’t have reunited the two parties to defeat Dumas army lol. Both Alm and Celica and the whole main plot with the prophecy would be meaningless if Rudolf could defeat one of the two gods by himself. So they both be terrible thought out characters. I don’t think even IS is that bad at writing.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Julian Solo

[Samz707]

6 hours ago, Anathaco said:

 

C : That shield spell just looks like Ward to me.

 

Except Ward is a spell that buffs magical resistance to allies, The spell in the cutscene is used like a shield to block a physical sword swing. (So Defense rather than Resistance.) so it's not acting like Ward at all, arguably the exact opposite of how Ward works. (Since it's protecting the User from a physical attack.)

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Julian Solo said:

Dude Jeddah literally contradict himself. He said Falchion sealed her powers but she then sealed falchion away and turned to stone of her own free will. 

So you think Jeddah is lying? Why would he lie on this point? And why would Irma, Mila's trusted servant lie?

1 hour ago, Julian Solo said:

Nothing said Rudolf defeated her. 

I quote again.

Irma: I am, Your Highness. Emperor Rudolf led the charge himself. Sealed her powers and took her away. To where, I fear I know not.

1 hour ago, Julian Solo said:

Mila literally gives Alm falchion and guides him into what to do to save Celica. 

Yeah, that's been established. Not sure why you're saying it again.

1 hour ago, Julian Solo said:

 Why I think you don’t know is because everything you have said to me as proved the opposite of what you said. 

When did I say anything that could possibility be the opposite of Duma turned into a tree. How could someone say the opposite of a plot point like that? 

1 hour ago, Julian Solo said:

 Alm just with Falchion given to him by his dad wouldn’t save Celica because you are assuming Alm would have trusted his blade not kill her without Milas help.

I didn't say that. Never said anything close to that.

1 hour ago, Julian Solo said:

Judging how you are the only one bring up Milas character flaws that seems like a you problem and irrelevant as she helps them anyway. Without Mila Alm wouldn’t have reunited the two parties to defeat Dumas army lol.

Yes, Mila helped them. You keep bringing that up as if you think it's proving some sort of point when Mila helping them in the end is something that has never been in dispute.

1 hour ago, Julian Solo said:

Both Alm and Celica and the whole main plot with the prophecy would be meaningless if Rudolf could defeat one of the two gods by himself. So they both be terrible thought out characters. I don’t think even IS is that bad at writing.

Well it's a shame they wrote in that part where Rudolf defeated Mila by himself.

Saint: Rudolf used the Divine Falchion to seal Mila’s powers before taking her. A treasure given him by the wicked god Duma, no doubt. Aye, finding Mila may just be a matter of reaching Duma Tower. But Duma himself can only be slain by Falchion’s edge.

That's a new quote by the by. Here's another quote by Rudolf himself no less

Rudolf: Take the Divine Falchion that… sealed Mila’s strength… Duma has become a thing of mindless evil. Use the blade… Destroy him… Please, my son… You must…

And one of Rudolf's soldiers.

Cavalier: I was present when Emperor Rudolf marched on the Temple of Mila. I know the blade he used to seal her power away—the Divine Falchion— had long been housed in the treasure vaults beneath Duma Tower. Though I fear I do not know what became of it after…

And here's the Valentia Accordion saying Rudolf was the one that beat Mila.

[Anathaco]

33 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Except Ward is a spell that buffs magical resistance to allies, The spell in the cutscene is used like a shield to block a physical sword swing. (So Defense rather than Resistance.) so it's not acting like Ward at all, arguably the exact opposite of how Ward works. (Since it's protecting the User from a physical attack.)

While that's true, its not super far-fetched to assume that there's a defence variant.

Also, I just remembered something: that guy isn't the only person in the game to use that shield spell (spoilers for chapter 9 because I'm not sure how far through 3H you are)

Spoiler

In Chapter 9, Thales uses a similar shield spell to block Byleth's attack from killing Monica when she goes to stab Jeralt.

So it could be some kind of enemy-only spell that none of your characters can learn- which, granted, is kinda contrived, but at least there's more than one instance of that spell showing up.

 

1 hour ago, Julian Solo said:

Dude Jeddah literally contradict himself. He said Falchion sealed her powers but she then sealed falchion away and turned to stone of her own free will. Nothing said Rudolf defeated her. Mila literally gives Alm falchion and guides him into what to do to save Celica. Why I think you don’t know is because everything you have said to me as proved the opposite of what you said. Alm just with Falchion given to him by his dad wouldn’t save Celica because you are assuming Alm would have trusted his blade not kill her without Milas help. Judging how you are the only one bring up Milas character flaws that seems like a you problem and irrelevant as she helps them anyway. Without Mila Alm wouldn’t have reunited the two parties to defeat Dumas army lol. Both Alm and Celica and the whole main plot with the prophecy would be meaningless if Rudolf could defeat one of the two gods by himself. So they both be terrible thought out characters. I don’t think even IS is that bad at writing.

Jedah said that Mila sealed Falchion as she was being sealed. It's not a contradiction at all: 

The moment Emperor Rudolf sealed her power, Mila sealed away Falchion

Mila may not have been killed by Rudolf, but she was certainly defeated by him. She sealed Falchion for the express purpose of preventing it from killing Duma once she realised she was screwed.

And yet, in my foolishness, I sealed the blade away. I did it to protect my brother… I loved my brother, even as we loved mankind.

If Mila was truly letting herself be sealed for the purpose of killing Duma, then the above quote, which Mila herself says, is completely wrong. And if she was strong enough to defeat Rudolf and the above quote accurately conveys her thoughts and feelings, she would have killed Rudolf and kept the Falchion in her care where nobody can use it to harm Duma. So the only option that makes sense is that sealing it was her last resort to save Duma.

 

 

[Julian Solo]

6 hours ago, Anathaco said:

While that's true, its not super far-fetched to assume that there's a defence variant.

Also, I just remembered something: that guy isn't the only person in the game to use that shield spell (spoilers for chapter 9 because I'm not sure how far through 3H you are)

  Reveal hidden contents

In Chapter 9, Thales uses a similar shield spell to block Byleth's attack from killing Monica when she goes to stab Jeralt.

So it could be some kind of enemy-only spell that none of your characters can learn- which, granted, is kinda contrived, but at least there's more than one instance of that spell showing up.

 

Jedah said that Mila sealed Falchion as she was being sealed. It's not a contradiction at all: 

The moment Emperor Rudolf sealed her power, Mila sealed away Falchion

Mila may not have been killed by Rudolf, but she was certainly defeated by him. She sealed Falchion for the express purpose of preventing it from killing Duma once she realised she was screwed.

And yet, in my foolishness, I sealed the blade away. I did it to protect my brother… I loved my brother, even as we loved mankind.

If Mila was truly letting herself be sealed for the purpose of killing Duma, then the above quote, which Mila herself says, is completely wrong. And if she was strong enough to defeat Rudolf and the above quote accurately conveys her thoughts and feelings, she would have killed Rudolf and kept the Falchion in her care where nobody can use it to harm Duma. So the only option that makes sense is that sealing it was her last resort to save Duma.

 

 

No that is a inference based on nothing. The actual plot of the game straight up tells you only Alm and Celica can defeat Mila and Duma. Rudolf himself even says this. 

I never said Mila sealed Falchion to kill duma what the hell are you talking about? She wanted to seal it to protect her brother because she has been protecting him since before he went insane. That’s not being defeated. You’re basing the fact she lost to him because she willingly turned to stone and got dragged off. We didn’t see the fight and ignoring the main reason the main characters are important in the first place. Naga chose them to kill Mila and Duma when they went insane. Mila is the one who gives the falchion to Alm in SoV at the end anyway. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Julian Solo

[Jotari]

26 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

No that is a inference based on nothing. The actual plot of the game straight up tells you only Alm and Celica can defeat Mila and Duma. Rudolf himself even says this. 

 

I never said Mila sealed Falchion to kill duma what the hell are you talking about? She wanted to seal it to protect her brother because she has been protecting him since before he went insane. That’s not being defeated. You’re basing the fact she lost to him because she willingly turned to stone and got dragged off. We didn’t see the fight and ignoring the main reason the main characters are important in the first place. Naga chose them to kill Mila and Duma when they went insane. 

Characters literally saying Rudolf sealed Mila's powers isn't inference. It's literally what happens. It means Rudolf, with Falchion, went there and sealed her powers, turning her to stone and effectively killing her. Nothing suggests Mila lost on purpose. The cutscene prior to the battle shows her determined to fight. None of her priests say she lost on purpose. Rudolf doesn't say she lost on purpose. Mila herself never says she lost on purpose. I've provided quotes from multiple different characters from different sides of the conflict who were there as well as the guide book that gives character details. You have nothing for your headcanon that Mila lost on purpose.

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Julian Solo]

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Characters literally saying Rudolf sealed Mila's powers isn't inference. It's literally what happens. It means Rudolf, with Falchion, went there and sealed her powers, turning her to stone and effectively killing her. Nothing suggests Mila lost on purpose. The cutscene prior to the battle shows her determined to fight. None of her priests say she lost on purpose. Rudolf doesn't say she lost on purpose. Mila herself never says she lost on purpose. I've provided quotes from multiple different characters from different sides of the conflict who were there as well as the guide book that gives character details. You have nothing for your headcanon that Mila lost on purpose.

 

“Seal equal defeat.” That isn’t how English works. None of those quotes says she lost. We also know only someone with the divine dragons mark can use the falchion full power. Which is made clear Rudolf doesn’t have. Sealing the Fang of Naga isn’t something she have the ability to do if she’s beaten it’s literally the power of a stronger god that kicked hers and Dumas ass in the past. She was carried away because she turned to stone after sealing falchion. It’s not that hard to grasp dude.
 

You started this argument based on a headcanon Rudolf could kill Duma which he himself emitted he can’t. Which is pure head canon. He even abandoned  his son because he couldn’t protect him from the Duma zealots. Duma army in the last chapter is massive to boot.
 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Julian Solo

[Benice]

8 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Except Ward is a spell that buffs magical resistance to allies, The spell in the cutscene is used like a shield to block a physical sword swing. (So Defense rather than Resistance.) so it's not acting like Ward at all, arguably the exact opposite of how Ward works. (Since it's protecting the User from a physical attack.)

Nergal and Ephidel don't have warp staves, and neither did Lyon, yet they warp around like a kid between amusement park rides. Big bads almost always do things they really shouldn't be able to do throughout the series.  This, unfortunately, isn't an FE16-exclusive problem. I would personally rather have a clear definition of what they can and can't do to prevent situations such as the, "Ephidel forgets how to warp even though he does it about 20 other times before this." Radiant Dawn sort of tried with this, at least. I liked that a fair bit, since it allowed an in-universe explanation.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Benice

[Samz707]

1 hour ago, Benice said:

Nergal and Ephidel don't have warp staves, and neither did Lyon, yet they warp around like a kid between amusement park rides. Big bads almost always do things they really shouldn't be able to do throughout the series.  This, unfortunately, isn't an FE16-exclusive problem. I would personally rather have a clear definition of what they can and can't do to prevent situations such as the, "Ephidel forgets how to warp even though he does it about 20 other times before this." Radiant Dawn sort of tried with this, at least. I liked that a fair bit, since it allowed an in-universe explanation.

Nergal is at least a super powerful mage old dude, I can buy he has magic that most people can't do more than some random mage and Ephidel is his mage-artifical human thing so it probably has some of his power.

I can buy that more than some random seemingly normal mage having spells that don't even exist in gameplay.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Samz707

[Benice]

2 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Nergal is at least a super powerful mage old dude, I can buy he has magic that most people can't do more than some random mage and Ephidel is his mage-artifical human thing so it probably has some of his power.

He can't do that in gameplay, though-Whenever it is convienient for him not to teleport, he doesn't. Same thing with Kishuna, (Who shouldn't be able to use magic because he's a magic seal)   at times, actually. It's never explained why or how they do this. Nergal could have just warped away when he was close to defeat, but nope. If there were an in-universe explication of this, it'd be fine, but there isn't-He just does things that haven't been established to be possible, both through gameplay and story.

[Troykv]

2 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Nergal is at least a super powerful mage old dude, I can buy he has magic that most people can't do more than some random mage and Ephidel is his mage-artifical human thing so it probably has some of his power.

I can buy that more than some random seemingly normal mage having spells that don't even exist in gameplay.

I can definitely buy Thales doing bullshit considering he's the baddest of the slitherins, and he later prove to have magic powerful enough to throw Byleth without much effort.

---

Alm has Light Novel Protagonist/Kirito syndrome

[Anathaco]

6 hours ago, Julian Solo said:

No that is a inference based on nothing. The actual plot of the game straight up tells you only Alm and Celica can defeat Mila and Duma. Rudolf himself even says this. 

I never said Mila sealed Falchion to kill duma what the hell are you talking about? She wanted to seal it to protect her brother because she has been protecting him since before he went insane. That’s not being defeated. You’re basing the fact she lost to him because she willingly turned to stone and got dragged off. We didn’t see the fight and ignoring the main reason the main characters are important in the first place. Naga chose them to kill Mila and Duma when they went insane. Mila is the one who gives the falchion to Alm in SoV at the end anyway. 

The prophecy that Rudolf refers to in that video never mentions Mila. Rudolf says that two children with the brand will save Valentia from ruin, and Mycen asks if Duma’s madness is the cause. Rudolf confirms as much. Neither of them, in that conversation, mention anything about Mila. So Duma is the only one of the two mentioned in the prophecy- ie, the only one who only Alm and Celica are able to defeat.

I mentioned Mila sealing falchion to kill Duma as an alternative explanation to dismiss. Also I misinterpreted your argument as saying that Mila let Rudolf beat her so she could get the Falchion to the temple for Alm, or something like that.

She wanted to protect Duma, yes. But why does she need to be sealed for that to happen? As I said in my post, it makes more sense to just kill Rudolf, if she could, and take Falchion. That’s why I think it makes more sense that Mila lost despite trying her hardest to win.

And yes, Mila gave the Falchion to Alm at the end, because she was inspired by Alm and Celica’s strength, and decided that she and Duma were no longer necessary to help humans.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Julian Solo said:

“Seal equal defeat.” That isn’t how English works. None of those quotes says she lost. We also know only someone with the divine dragons mark can use the falchion full power. Which is made clear Rudolf doesn’t have. Sealing the Fang of Naga isn’t something she have the ability to do if she’s beaten it’s literally the power of a stronger god that kicked hers and Dumas ass in the past. She was carried away because she turned to stone after sealing falchion. It’s not that hard to grasp dude.
 

You started this argument based on a headcanon Rudolf could kill Duma which he himself emitted he can’t. Which is pure head canon. He even abandoned  his son because he couldn’t protect him from the Duma zealots. Duma army in the last chapter is massive to boot.
 

 

Seal does equal defeat in this case. He turned her to stone and rendered her completely helpless. Jedah later destroys that body leaving just the skull. How could rendering her in such a state, which everybody in the game agrees is Rudolf's doing, not equal defeat? And Rudolf does have dragon blood. He doesn't have a brand like Alm, that's the hero of prophecy thing, but he does have dragon blood which was introduced into the royal families some generations back when Valentia was threatened by an invasion from over seas. That's information that's only found in supplementary material though.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Jotari

[omegaxis1]

16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Seal does equal defeat in this case. He turned her to stone and rendered her completely helpless. Jedah later destroys that body leaving just the skull. How could rendering her in such a state, which everybody in the game agrees is Rudolf's doing, not equal defeat? And Rudolf does have dragon blood. He doesn't have a brand like Alm, that's the hero of prophecy thing, but he does have dragon blood which was introduced into the royal families some generations back when Valentia was threatened by an invasion from over seas. That's information that's only found in supplementary material though.

Actually... he does have the Brand. 

That's why he can wield Falchion. I think the accordion even mentioned that that's why Rudolf became emperor. 

The prophecy simply indicates that there will be 2 that will be born with the Brand. When Alm was born, he also heard about Celica having a Brand as well, I believe. 

[Ottservia]

3 hours ago, Troykv said:

Alm has Light Novel Protagonist/Kirito syndrome

Not wrong but I honestly consider Kirito to be the better character. He’s more consistent at least but that’s a conversation for another time

[Samz707]

19 hours ago, Troykv said:

I can definitely buy Thales doing bullshit considering he's the baddest of the slitherins, and he later prove to have magic powerful enough to throw Byleth without much effort.

---

Alm has Light Novel Protagonist/Kirito syndrome

Yeah but a random mage uses it though.

Plus it apparently uses the same visual effect as the "Ward" spell, despite the Ward spell protecting others from magic, not protecting the user from a sword. (Since a Sword would be defense.)

[Ottservia]

10 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Yeah but a random mage uses it though.

Who is a subordinate of Thales important enough that he was tasked with this particular assignment. It’s not that much of a logical leap to say Thales is the one who taught his subordinates how to perform such spells. Even so if Thales can do it that proves such magic is possible and it isn’t too farfetch’d to assume others can perform similar spells.

[Samz707]

18 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Who is a subordinate of Thales important enough that he was tasked with this particular assignment. It’s not that much of a logical leap to say Thales is the one who taught his subordinates how to perform such spells. Even so if Thales can do it that proves such magic is possible and it isn’t too farfetch’d to assume others can perform similar spells.

In which case it'd probably be an actual enemy only spell in-game as opposed to just being in cutscenes.

Not to mention if it's ment to be a different spell, why does it use the exact same effect as an in-game spell that does something different?

Edited October 13, 2020 by Samz707

[joevar]

So its not really about Alm anymore, but inconsistencies in general writing.

15 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Yeah but a random mage uses it though

its a bad example of plot armor, really. cant think of anything but that.
im sure its like they want to show Byleth fail or smth but forgot theres no such thing that can block like that.. then they were like "its in rendered cutscene so no one will notice, right? right?" 🤷‍♂️

[Anathaco]

15 hours ago, Samz707 said:

In which case it'd probably be an actual enemy only spell in-game as opposed to just being in cutscenes.

Not to mention if it's ment to be a different spell, why does it use the exact same effect as an in-game spell that does something different?

If a spell like that existed in game and enemies could use it it'd just be annoying and unfun to deal with. It'd basically be Impregnable Wall on enemies, which'd suck.

I mean they're both shields of some kind. I'd be more confused if they looked different.

[Samz707]

11 hours ago, joevar said:

So its not really about Alm anymore, but inconsistencies in general writing.

its a bad example of plot armor, really. cant think of anything but that.
im sure its like they want to show Byleth fail or smth but forgot theres no such thing that can block like that.. then they were like "its in rendered cutscene so no one will notice, right? right?" 🤷‍♂️

Yeah I don't like it in games where "We need to show how the situation is serious by making our hero nearly die/get captured from circumstances that wouldn't arise in gameplay."

Bonus points if it's from a boss we literally just defeated. (Echoes did this too with Celica and Dolth and it was equally dumb there.) 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Samz707

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Samz707 said:

Yeah I don't like it in games where "We need to show how the situation is series by making our hero nearly die from circumstances that wouldn't arise in gameplay."

 

I mean for a tactics game that’s kind of hard to do though especially when it comes to adapting the in-game combat to cutscene visuals. And even if you wanna get really nitpicky with that logic then any cutscene in a turnbased rpg where the characters don’t take turns attacking is just automatically bad. And this is a thing that happens in like every turnbased rpg ever that’s heavy on cutscenes

[Samz707]

8 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I mean for a tactics game that’s kind of hard to do though especially when it comes to adapting the in-game combat to cutscene visuals. And even if you wanna get really nitpicky with that logic then any cutscene in a turnbased rpg where the characters don’t take turns attacking is just automatically bad. And this is a thing that happens in like every turnbased rpg ever that’s heavy on cutscenes

I can understand turns not being real turns but we literally JUST kicked the lifebar out of Dolth/Random mage dude yet in the cutscene afterwards, they're not even injured seemingly and both require Celica/Byleth to just not kill them when they really, really easily could, Celica literally has a sword in one hand, magic in the other, I highly doubt Dolth would be able to grab her and not die from one of the two things.

(and Byleth, a trained feared mercenary, forgets how to fight seemingly as well as that metal swords generally do not block fireballs considering how evidently both them and the mage are surprised it even worked, I'd expect an FE Protagonist who's a simple villager to be as dumb as Byleth in this scene.)

As for other Tactics games: None of them have had your characters suddenly lose all competency to get captured in my experience.

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Samz707

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Samz707 said:

I can understand turns not being real turns but we literally JUST kicked the lifebar out of Dolth/Random mage dude yet in the cutscene afterwards, they're not even injured seemingly and both require Celica/Byleth to just not kill them when they really, really easily could, Celica literally has a sword in one hand, magic in the other, I highly doubt Dolth would be able to grab her and not die from one of the two things.

(and Byleth, a trained feared mercenary, forgets how to fight seemingly as well as that metal swords generally do not block fireballs considering how evidently both them and the mage are surprised it even worked.)

 

I mean dude that’s just a matter of graphical limitations also the fact that this is a nintendo game so showing visual signs of injury is kind of hard to do. Hell 3H is the first time we’ve seen blood in a Fire Emblem game as far as I’m aware. Even so that’s an in engine cutscene and to make an entirely new skin for some random mage dude that’s hardly even relevant just for one cutscene is asking a bit much. As for the Celica and Byleth example of them not fighting the way you believe they should. You ever put yourself in an intense situation like that? Sometimes your body just kinda moves involuntarily. Or maybe you’re just not thinking straight due to the heightened adrenaline and emotion. Not every character is gonna make the completely logical decision every time. Humans aren’t robots. We’re not purely logical. We run on emotion too and those things can greatly influence how we act. Like if every character made the completely logical decision regardless of emotional influence that’d make for a pretty boring story honestly.