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1 minute ago, Seazas said:

Incorrect, in Tatiana's dialogue Alm directly confirms that he sees anyone who opposes him on the battlefield as an enemy. Even saying that they will have no choice but to retaliate if Zeke does anything. Fighting whatever's in front of someone doesn't mean attacking whoever whenever. 

Well then what about Delthea. He didn’t see her as an enemy. He was able to hold back against her just fine. And even then he never took Celica’s ideals into account. Celica’s ideals never got him out of a difficult situation. So he’s still wrong in what he’s saying 

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3 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Well then what about Delthea. He didn’t see her as an enemy. He was able to hold back against her just fine. And even then he never took Celica’s ideals into account. Celica’s ideals never got him out of a difficult situation. So he’s still wrong in what he’s saying 

Delthea was a village girl dragged against her will and controlled. Alm still fights what's in front of him, in the direct dialogue he specifically says for her not to be killed not to evade fighting her entirely. 

Celica's ideals don't need to be applied for him to see value in her though. The game day 1 already made sure to establish how important she is for Alm on a personal level. Celica doesn't apply Alm's ideals and she made it far in her journey. With lots of successes and personal growth on her end that didn't involve Alm.

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17 minutes ago, Seazas said:

That stupid logic of "Alm has to lose or have beliefs bite him or others cannot matter to him" is the worst. If you're going to use dialogue then Alm directly says himself that he has a lot to learn and he's only made leader because of his connection to Mycen. He serves well with his combat ability and genuine heart. A capable leader worth relying on but never described as wise. Kindness =/= wisdom too so your Fernand point is irrelevant.

Yeah, sorry, your point is overall invalid. You have yet to even PROVE your point, whereas both myself and @Ottservia have the game itself to back up our points. Alm has already shown to be a wise leader that has led the Deliverance to victory and actually save lives while still being challenged by others to the extent that he just outright refutes them easily.

In the end, for Alm's line that he needed Celica's so called wisdom to be applied, the game would have needed to SHOW that her wisdom was applied in the sense that her lessons or themes did apply. But they didn't. 

And as I said, it was Alm's wisdom that overruled Celica, where she admitted that she was wrong and he was right, where she was the one that needed to believe in people, which Alm always has believed in.

This is fact. No matter how much you try to insist that it isn't, no matter how much you try to say that Alm isn't wise, or that Celica is wise, the game simply does not back up your point. 

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4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah, sorry, your point is overall invalid. You have yet to even PROVE your point, whereas both myself and @Ottservia have the game itself to back up our points. Alm has already shown to be a wise leader that has led the Deliverance to victory and actually save lives while still being challenged by others to the extent that he just outright refutes them easily.

In the end, for Alm's line that he needed Celica's so called wisdom to be applied, the game would have needed to SHOW that her wisdom was applied in the sense that her lessons or themes did apply. But they didn't. 

And as I said, it was Alm's wisdom that overruled Celica, where she admitted that she was wrong and he was right, where she was the one that needed to believe in people, which Alm always has believed in.

This is fact. No matter how much you try to insist that it isn't, no matter how much you try to say that Alm isn't wise, or that Celica is wise, the game simply does not back up your point. 

Not a fact. Alm and Celica overcome their trials with Alm personally finding her sort of wisdom valuable. With Alm's trials directly involving him fighting what's right in front of him, which Alm says. Your points are worthless, mostly utilizing headcanons with game dialogue while forming your own conclusions that the game never stated. Along with arbitrary bullshit like Alm needing to lose or Celica is magically worthless. "What? Celica is confirmed the major reason Alm survives the war overall? Doesn't count!"

Edited by Seazas

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31 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

He literally has a combat art that allows him to leave opponents at 1 hp without killing them.

Hey if your going by gameplay logic, why does Celica have a higher STR growth than him? Her growth should be like the original. That's silly in the first place!

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11 minutes ago, Seazas said:

Not a fact. Alm and Celica overcome their trials with Alm personally finding her sort of wisdom valuable. With Alm's trials directly involving him fighting what's right in front of him, which Alm says. Your points are worthless, mostly utilizing headcanons with game dialogue while forming your own conclusions that the game never stated. Along with arbitrary bullshit like Alm needing to lose or Celica is magically worthless. "What? Celica is confirmed the major reason Alm survives the war overall? Doesn't count!"

Now you're really just being silly. Alm's proven that he doesn't need Celica's wisdom, because he ISN'T someone that actually shows to only know how to fight what's in front of him. He's shown to be a level headed thinker, able to issue commands and actually display wisdom for others, especially with how he is able to save Delthea, Mathilda, and even with killing Nuibaba to save Tatiana which lets him avoid killing Zeke. He even deduced that Nuibaba's Celica was just an illusion too. 

Sorry, but you are trying way too hard to insist on a fallacy. 

The game does not support what you are trying desperately to insist on.

Alm has proven to be a wise leader that doesn't actually need Celica's so called "wisdom", and you trying to insist that is just proving you to be in denial.

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3 hours ago, Jotari said:

If Mila didn't seal Falchion then Rudolf could have just went and killed Duma himself (which is a massive plot hole in the original Gaiden). Or just handed it to Alm to save him the trouble. She wasn't really helping anyone but Duma with that act.

Rudolf thinks it’s his sons destiny to kill Duma. It doesn’t even make sense why he attack Mila first when she had no signs of degeneration and he knows she keeps half the continent fed. Mila intended to protect her brother yeah. But she still gives it to Alm and helps him save Celica. Alm defeats Duma with Celicas help through support bonuses supposedly. I don’t see the point here. The Duma faith has shown influence over Rudolfs own army anyway. Even if he was as strong as Celica and Alm combined at the end of the game. There isn’t proof he could beat Duma alone. 

Edited by Julian Solo

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4 hours ago, Seazas said:

Alm isn't a wise leader, he's charismatic but never officially described as wise.

After rescuing Delthea, Clive says that he’s “lucky to have so wise a teacher”.

Anyway, I have to agree that Celica’s journey doesn’t benefit Valentia nearly as much as Alm’s does. Sure you can say that Celica’s point is valid that the gods are still important- but in the end that doesn’t matter because the gods end up dying anyway. Alm is saved by his bond with Celica, but that’s about it; as others have said, nothing about the purpose of Celica’s journey ever becomes relevant for Alm. 

And you can certainly interpret the story as talking about their bond being the main thing they needed from each other. You might even be right in that regard. But I think it’s wrong to say that because Celica’s journey had some practical implications for Alm, like his promotion or the sluice gate, it automatically means that her worldview was necessary to Alm’s success. 
 

So, sorry, but I have to agree with Ottservia and omegaxis for this one.

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8 hours ago, Seazas said:

You brought up Mila sealing it, just stating that even if Mila didn't blessed bloodlines by the gods still exist. Aka... themes ok. Not great, but what can you do.

 

Someone else brought up the sealing. What I was saying is that Mila wasn't really helping Alm or Celica by doing that. She was just undoing her own fuck up by unsealing it later. If we're to examine it thematically then I'd say Mila sealing Falchion is to be taken as a knock against all consuming benevolence as her love for her brother trumped the rationale decision to stop the tyrant he'd become. Though it's obviously way more there to fill up the plot hole as to why Rudolf didn't just kill Duma himself.

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6 hours ago, Julian Solo said:

Rudolf thinks it’s his sons destiny to kill Duma. It doesn’t even make sense why he attack Mila first when she had no signs of degeneration and he knows she keeps half the continent fed. Mila intended to protect her brother yeah. But she still gives it to Alm and helps him save Celica. Alm defeats Duma with Celicas help through support bonuses supposedly. I don’t see the point here. The Duma faith has shown influence over Rudolfs own army anyway. Even if he was as strong as Celica and Alm combined at the end of the game. There isn’t proof he could beat Duma alone. 

Mila unsealing Falchion just undoes what she herself did earlier by sealing it. She wasn't helping Alm at all by making it inaccessible. She herself states that the only reason she did it was so no one could hurt Duma.

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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Mila unsealing Falchion just undoes what she herself did earlier by sealing it. She wasn't helping Alm at all by making it inaccessible. She herself states that the only reason she did it was so no one could hurt Duma.

I think the thing is that the only reason that she decided to unseal it and allow them to kill her brother, is because it was Alm and Celica. Maybe it was Celica's self sacrificing nature and Alm's determination to end the gods because it was wrong of them to sacrifice an innocent girl like that which got to Mila, but ultimately, the prophecy was ultimately fulfilled. 

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15 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I think the thing is that the only reason that she decided to unseal it and allow them to kill her brother, is because it was Alm and Celica. Maybe it was Celica's self sacrificing nature and Alm's determination to end the gods because it was wrong of them to sacrifice an innocent girl like that which got to Mila, but ultimately, the prophecy was ultimately fulfilled. 

Well she says they've shown her the strength of mankind. But with the context I think it makes far more sense to assume that's emotional strength and perseverance rather than Duma brand strength.

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1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Well she says they've shown her the strength of mankind. But with the context I think it makes far more sense to assume that's emotional strength and perseverance rather than Duma brand strength.

Yes. It was because of their personalities. 

Though technically speaking, Alm and Celica are both able to wield Falchion, because it requires those with Divine Dragon blood and bearing the Brand to be able to use it.

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43 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Mila unsealing Falchion just undoes what she herself did earlier by sealing it. She wasn't helping Alm at all by making it inaccessible. She herself states that the only reason she did it was so no one could hurt Duma.

Never said she did seal it to help Alm. So again not sure what you are trying to get at. Besides trying to argue Rodulf might have been able to beat Duma which is unlikely as it took the deliverance and Celicas army combining to beat him. Rudolf army with the help of Duma faithful lost to the Deliverance alone. Mila told Alm how to save Celica. If Mila hadn’t sealed falchion Celica would be dead. 

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5 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

Never said she did seal it to help Alm. So again not sure what you are trying to get at. Besides trying to argue Rodulf might have been able to beat Duma which is unlikely as it took the deliverance and Celicas army combining to beat him. Rudolf army with the help of Duma faithful lost to the Deliverance alone. Mila told Alm how to save Celica. If Mila hadn’t sealed falchion Celica would be dead. 

Well number 1, why? Would Mila have been any less capable of saving Celica had she not sealed Falchion? 2, why would that even matter? Like if Berkut never fought Alm he would never have grown strong enough to take on Duma. That doesn't make Berkut fighting Alm a good thing. Mila is a negative presence in the world who though both inaction and direct action paved the way for Duma and Rigel to take control. She only becomes a force for good at the very end of the game when Alm and Celica open her eyes to the truth.

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16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well number 1, why? Would Mila have been any less capable of saving Celica had she not sealed Falchion? 2, why would that even matter? Like if Berkut never fought Alm he would never have grown strong enough to take on Duma. That doesn't make Berkut fighting Alm a good thing. Mila is a negative presence in the world who though both inaction and direct action paved the way for Duma and Rigel to take control. She only becomes a force for good at the very end of the game when Alm and Celica open her eyes to the truth.

Number 1 none of that has anything to do with what I said. I never mentioned Milas character only yes without her Duma would have won. Secondly Mila keeps half the continent fed. If you don’t think that is a positive use for her powers I don’t know what is lol. Also Rigel never took control of Zofia. They helped what ever I forgot the fat evil dudes face was. Alms village hadn’t even heard of the war yet. It never ended to see who won. Rudolf knew he couldn’t defeat the gods because it wasn’t his destiny so why he even tried vs Mila. Who he was no proof in the game she was crazy yet I don’t know. 

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6 hours ago, Anathaco said:

After rescuing Delthea, Clive says that he’s “lucky to have so wise a teacher”.

Anyway, I have to agree that Celica’s journey doesn’t benefit Valentia nearly as much as Alm’s does. Sure you can say that Celica’s point is valid that the gods are still important- but in the end that doesn’t matter because the gods end up dying anyway. Alm is saved by his bond with Celica, but that’s about it; as others have said, nothing about the purpose of Celica’s journey ever becomes relevant for Alm. 

And you can certainly interpret the story as talking about their bond being the main thing they needed from each other. You might even be right in that regard. But I think it’s wrong to say that because Celica’s journey had some practical implications for Alm, like his promotion or the sluice gate, it automatically means that her worldview was necessary to Alm’s success. 
 

So, sorry, but I have to agree with Ottservia and omegaxis for this one.

They're both necessary to each other's success. Without each other, Alm and Celica fail. The purpose of Alm's journey isn't relevant for Celica's route outside of their bond and when they meet up. Celica never has a canon moment of saying "what would Alm do" and directly apply his ideals. Never did but she had multiple successes regardless.

"But you did it anyway because you have something I do not—strength of heart. You understand what is precious and fight for it no matter the cost." -Clive

This furthers my point that Alm is all about strength and his tendencies to stay firm with what he does. Clive learning from that doesn't make Alm this super big well of wisdom that's wrongly claimed to be. 

10 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Now you're really just being silly. Alm's proven that he doesn't need Celica's wisdom, because he ISN'T someone that actually shows to only know how to fight what's in front of him. He's shown to be a level headed thinker, able to issue commands and actually display wisdom for others, especially with how he is able to save Delthea, Mathilda, and even with killing Nuibaba to save Tatiana which lets him avoid killing Zeke. He even deduced that Nuibaba's Celica was just an illusion too. 

Crediting Alm for the Nuibaba situation is disingenuous. Lukas is the one who provides the suggestion and specifically highlights the strategical advantages in gunning for Nuibaba. Even bringing up that the Rigelian masses would be thankful for the "invaders" that wasn't Alm and shows how much you blanked on the script. He doesn't deduce Celica's "illusion" either it's present in the script that he fell for the trap but fights his way out of it. Keeping up the consistency of Alm being skilled and capable in combat based situations. Saving Mathilda was a matter of combat and something that's credited to Mycen than Alm himself. He even says that he received tutleage in tactics, terrain and the like and that they're "his grandfather's gifts".

Edited by Seazas

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2 minutes ago, Seazas said:

Celica never has a canon moment of saying "what would Alm do" and directly apply his ideals. Never did but she had multiple successes regardless.

You’re right, she doesn’t and guess what happens to her? She fucking dies!!(at least temporarily). She loses her friends and her soul is taken by the fell god Duma. I dunno about you but I don’t think that’s the narrative’s way of saying she’s in the right. When they make up, Celica kind of admits that she should’ve listened to Alm. Alm never has a moment like that. He’s never wrong. He and Celica are supposed to compliment each other right? Their strengths are supposed to make up for each other’s weaknesses. That’s kinda what the narrative is trying to go for. It doesn’t work because Alm has no flaws. He’s never presented as flawed but the narrative constantly says that he is. He’s never put into a sticky situation because of any innate character flaw. Celica, however, constantly is and why is that? From a thematic angle, what would Celica have to do in order for the narrative to not punish her like it did? The answer is pretty simple. She would have to rely on her friends‘ strength to protect her like how Alm would protect her. Or be able tp rely on her own strength to protect herself. At least that’s the idea I’m getting from this narrative. Alm does not have a moment like this and that’s the problem.

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9 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

You’re right, she doesn’t and guess what happens to her? She fucking dies!!(at least temporarily). She loses her friends and her soul is taken by the fell god Duma. I dunno about you but I don’t think that’s the narrative’s way of saying she’s in the right. When they make up, Celica kind of admits that she should’ve listened to Alm. Alm never has a moment like that. He’s never wrong. He and Celica are supposed to compliment each other right? Their strengths are supposed to make up for each other’s weaknesses. That’s kinda what the narrative is trying to go for. It doesn’t work because Alm has no flaws. He’s never presented as flawed but the narrative constantly says that he is. He’s never put into a sticky situation because of any innate character flaw. Celica, however, constantly is and why is that? From a thematic angle, what would Celica have to do in order for the narrative to not punish her like it did? The answer is pretty simple. She would have to rely on her friends‘ strength to protect her like how Alm would protect her. Or be able tp rely on her own strength to protect herself. At least that’s the idea I’m getting from this narrative. Alm does not have a moment like this and that’s the problem.

Which further shows that Alm and Celica are more effective together than apart. Even clarifying that without Alm, Celica would also die and fall than her handling everything. It doesn't erase her efforts and successes that are such a factor that they're a major part in the Unification of Valentia (such as Jesse's kingdom). Alm does have moments of relying on his friends, it's a constant thing in script and even official content: Daybreak Skies that showcases Alm has a lot to learn and bases his experiences off everyone else. From Tobin saying that they're apart of Alm's strength, Lukas being Alm's capable teacher (and the major factor that guided them to save Tatiana to begin with), his growth from the personal journey that goes hand in hand with Celica's own personal growth (not the one in Act 5), to literally dying without Celica's impact and journey. 

Edited by Seazas

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2 minutes ago, Seazas said:

Which further shows that Alm and Celica are more effective together than apart. Even clarifying that without Alm, Celica would also die and fall than her handling everything. It doesn't erase her efforts and successes that are such a factor that they're a major part in the Unification of Valentia (such as Jesse's kingdom). Alm does have moments of relying on his friends, it's a constant thing in script and even official content: Daybreak Skies that showcases Alm has a lot to learn and bases his experiences off everyone else. From Tobin saying that they're apart of Alm's strength, Lukas being Alm's capable teacher (and the major factor that guided them to save Tatiana to begin with) to literally dying without Celica's impact and journey.

Y’see the problem with that is the story itself doesn’t agree with you. Alm does not need Celica to do anything. He’s no more effective with her by his side than without her and that’s kinda the problem. Alm is never presented as needing Celica only really for superficial shit. They’re supposed to compliment each other but they don’t because Alm is perfect. He is perfectly capable of doing everything he does by himself without her. It’s not like her wisdom or kindness would’ve helped him out of any of numerous obstacles in his way. He doesn’t need Celica to do anything really and that’s the problem because the narrative wants you to think that he does 

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39 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Y’see the problem with that is the story itself doesn’t agree with you. Alm does not need Celica to do anything. He’s no more effective with her by his side than without her and that’s kinda the problem. Alm is never presented as needing Celica only really for superficial shit. They’re supposed to compliment each other but they don’t because Alm is perfect. He is perfectly capable of doing everything he does by himself without her. It’s not like her wisdom or kindness would’ve helped him out of any of numerous obstacles in his way. He doesn’t need Celica to do anything really and that’s the problem because the narrative wants you to think that he does 

Alm doesn't even win without Celica so that's clearly not true. Along with that, Celica handles 80% of the Duma Faithful and the entire pirate problem from the roots without Alm needing to save her. And it's not like she ends the journey wrong since the gods are a major reason why they win. They just can't blindly depend on them and nothing else anymore. Celica had a personal arc of accepting herself and Alm wasn't much of a factor in that. Just like how Alm is a major part of the "noble vs common" arc without needing much of Celica to save the day. Their personal bond is what they need. They couldn't even open the mythical door that required both brands if Celica wasn't there by the by. Alm couldn't go the entire game without Celica unless you completely rewrite it. I can do the same for Celica, simply have her defeating Jedah in the swamp be canon and boom, zero death on her end. 

Additionally, there's no official statement where they're supposed to cover each others weaknesses. Ever since Gaiden it was all about their personal bond and the major theme being their relation and how much they resemble Duma and Mila in ideals. Alm and Celica manage to be competent separate but they come together to make their strengths even more effective to the point they're unstoppable and create a dynasty that lasts a thousand years. Their need for each other comes from the bond more than covering each other's weakness with the two saving each other sometimes but largely doing things with their own armies. Alm personally finding value in Celica with things to learn from her (which is consistent in how Alm learns from others than himself) and Celica learning from Alm's approach doesn't really change that. 

Edited by Seazas

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3 hours ago, Julian Solo said:

Number 1 none of that has anything to do with what I said. I never mentioned Milas character only yes without her Duma would have won. Secondly Mila keeps half the continent fed. If you don’t think that is a positive use for her powers I don’t know what is lol. Also Rigel never took control of Zofia. They helped what ever I forgot the fat evil dudes face was. Alms village hadn’t even heard of the war yet. It never ended to see who won. Rudolf knew he couldn’t defeat the gods because it wasn’t his destiny so why he even tried vs Mila. Who he was no proof in the game she was crazy yet I don’t know. 

Well yes, Mila helped Alm and Celica at the end by undoing the problems she herself caused. That's so obvious I'm not sure why you'd even point it out. As for Mila keeping half the continent fed, that is what lead them to be corrupt and greedy.

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10 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well yes, Mila helped Alm and Celica at the end by undoing the problems she herself caused. That's so obvious I'm not sure why you'd even point it out. As for Mila keeping half the continent fed, that is what lead them to be corrupt and greedy.

What are you talking about Duma went insane and allowed Rudolf to attack her. Depending on how you interpret the god tree she might have never reblessed the land. Yeah she babied them to much. No she didn’t cause Duma to want Celica soul she had absolutely nothing to do with Rigels actions. An if she hadn’t had sealed falchion Duma would have won because Celica might have not even left the church or Mila wouldn’t have been there to help Alm. Mila would have just killed Rudolf. Because it wasn’t his destiny to beat her. Jeddah was already feeding maidens souls to try to cure Dumas degeneration long before the story. Was she a flawed leader yes that’s obvious. But the story clearly blames everything on the degenerated Duma. Milas faith still exists by the end of the game Dumas doesn’t. Know if you want to say the game doesn’t call Mila out enough for causing the famine and being a bad leader sure I agree. But she’s not the war god Duma was. 

Edited by Julian Solo

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11 hours ago, Seazas said:

Additionally, there's no official statement where they're supposed to cover each others weaknesses. Ever since Gaiden it was all about their personal bond and the major theme being their relation and how much they resemble Duma and Mila in ideals. Alm and Celica manage to be competent separate but they come together to make their strengths even more effective to the point they're unstoppable and create a dynasty that lasts a thousand years. Their need for each other comes from the bond more than covering each other's weakness with the two saving each other sometimes but largely doing things with their own armies. Alm personally finding value in Celica with things to learn from her (which is consistent in how Alm learns from others than himself) and Celica learning from Alm's approach doesn't really change that. 

I mean it isn’t officially stated but it is heavily implied. I mean Duma’s final words suggest as much where he tells Alm and Celica to learn from their mistakes and to make Valentia a strong nation filled with Mila’s love. The point of the narrative is heavily implied to be about the flaws in Duma and Mila’s ideals. The game isn’t exactly subtle about that message. Alm and Celica are supposed to represent those ideals. The flaws of those ideals as well as their virtues and they both face characters that showcase the logical extremes of those ideals(Berkut for Alm and Jedah for Celica). That’s how the narrative sets itself up. Hell the argument Celica and Alm have at the end of act 2 is supposed to reflect the same argument between Duma and Mila. It’s through their respective character arcs that they’re supposed to learn that those ideals on their own are bad and it’s only through the marriage of those ideals that a kingdom can truly prosper.

Problem is though Alm doesn’t represent Duma’s ideals at all. He’s more representative of Mila than Duma. The only character that truly represents Duma’s ideals is Berkut which yeah is kind of the point. He’s supposed to be Alm’s foil after all. But the problem is that their foil relationship is kind of shit because they’re not similar in the slightest. The conflict between them is just so darn shallow. It’s just kinda Berkut hating on Alm because he needs to validate his insecurities. It’s very one sided. Like if you want me to believe that Berkut is what could’ve been you have to show that. You have show how Alm and Berkut aren’t all that different. The story doesn’t make that effort. Like I have hard time believing that these two are supposed to foil each other because they don’t. The reason this is such a big problem is because again that’s what the story wants to do. It wants to show that if Alm did give into his ambition and insecurities he would end up like Berkut. Berkut is meant to show the logical extremes of Duma’s ideals and foil Alm in that way. It doesn’t work because Alm isn’t representative of Duma’s ideals in the slightest. They don’t really make that a point to emphasize with alm. He’s just kind of a flawless paragon but then they want you to view him as a flawed character at times when he never was. Like which is it?

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On 10/7/2020 at 2:12 PM, Seazas said:

Incorrect, in Tatiana's dialogue Alm directly confirms that he sees anyone who opposes him on the battlefield as an enemy. Even saying that they will have no choice but to retaliate if Zeke does anything. Fighting whatever's in front of someone doesn't mean attacking whoever whenever. He sees value in Celica's perspective and literally all he does in his route is primarily fight enemies. So he's right. A ton of his dialogue early on is even about a constant desire to fight. "Why let me use a sword if you won't let me fight"

Yeah; I'm late to this specific conversation and don't have all the context for who is arguing what, but I can point out that that's a case of telling rather than showing, and what's being told to the player contradicting what's being shown; something that Shadows of Valentia is quite guilty of in a number of places.

 

16 hours ago, Seazas said:

Ever since Gaiden it was all about their personal bond and the major theme being their relation and how much they resemble Duma and Mila in ideals. Alm and Celica manage to be competent separate but they come together to make their strengths even more effective to the point they're unstoppable and create a dynasty that lasts a thousand years. Their need for each other comes from the bond more than covering each other's weakness with the two saving each other sometimes but largely doing things with their own armies. Alm personally finding value in Celica with things to learn from her (which is consistent in how Alm learns from others than himself) and Celica learning from Alm's approach doesn't really change that. 

The problem is that the player is shown Alm always being perfect and Celica's actions being in the wrong as she ultimately makes things worse by agreeing to Jedah's deal. The game is supposed to be about balance, working together and bonds overcoming conflicting ideologies but it breaks that lesson by basically having the story favour Alm. That's the problem. 

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