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8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

The Rigelians were driven off when Zofia Castle was liberated, not after Desaix was killed.

You fight Zofians at Zofia castle, not Rigelians. Berkut and Renea were the only Rigelians there, presumably to sort details out with Desaix as he's the new leadership in Rigels eyes.

You start battling Rigelians consistently after fighting Desaix a second time, largely because they are occupying former Zofian land that they gained during the previous war, and because they're blocking the way to the Sluice Gate.

10 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

No, they don't "achieve" greatness, but because they have someone that was on the top of the monarchy that was their friend more than anything. 

Alm offered knightship to both Valbar and Leon, despite not personally knowing them. And he didn't immediately make Tobin a lord; it happened after an unspecified amount of time after he was knighted. Alm also knighted several other members of the deliverance even if they weren't a close friend because they proved their worth over the course of the war. It's possible he did this to several unspecified soldiers, because Fire Emblem is terrible about mentioning off-screen armies. Heck, even Three Houses, despite adding a battalion mechanic, cares more about characters that have a name than the countless faceless units that are slaughtered throughout the course of the game.

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It's almost like SoV's story isn't what we think it should be. ;/

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SoV’s story has this thing of wanting to do one thing but then showcasing the exact opposite on accident. Like I said, what the story wanted to convey vs what it actually conveyed are two very different things. It’s like trying to bake a cake but instead of cake mix you use brownie mix and it just ends up being really weird.

Edited by Ottservia

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3 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

SoV’s story has this thing of wanting to do one thing but then showcasing the exact opposite on accident. Like I said, what the story wanted to convey vs what it actually conveyed are two very different things. It’s like trying to bake a cake but instead of cake mix you use brownie mix and it just ends up being really weird.

That still sounds delicious though.

I do agree though, I think I said this before, but I always viewed echoes as a “fate always wins” story, just with a happier ending. Characters like Tobin and Forsyth, etc, rise above the station of their birth, but overall people end up where they were always destined to be. 

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6 minutes ago, Anathaco said:

That still sounds delicious though.

Trust my mom did it once and it didn’t turn out quite as good as it sounds 

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9 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

A nobility system can still be subjugated to that.

Lima IV was deposed for being a bad ruler. Tobin became a noble for his merits. Again, we don't know what happens after the game is done. For all we know, Alm imposed a similar system since just like how he gave Tobin a title for his merits, it means the opposite can be true too. Title revocation for those that show they don't deserve it. How is it determined if its deserved or not? Well, by the very merit and hard work the title was earned in the first place.

You can tweak to fix. Nothing says they are exclusive.

Speaking of being deposed from nobility ... fun fact from Thracia. Ilios or Eyrios or whatever his name is (that guy you can only get if you don't have Olwen) wants to be a noble. He gets to be a noble in his ending, but also loses his position as a noble because he sucked at it.

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28 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Trust my mom did it once and it didn’t turn out quite as good as it sounds 

Hmm. That’s kinda disappointing.

EDIT: Just throwing this in here, but authorial intent is weird. For all we know the writers weren’t trying to tell a story with themes or morals, but just trying to recreate a classic. And the themes we see in a story tend to be more aligned with what we personally take away from it. 
I think, anyway. That’s how I’ve always approached literature.

Edited by Anathaco

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

While Ottservia is right in saying you don't really need it to result in an actual mistake or set back, you could still make for a mistake or set back in the plot while maintaining victory in the gameplay. Namely by achieving a short term goal by completing the chapter, but it resulting in a loss elsewhere. Like say in the plot people aren't sure if it's a good idea to charge a fort or something an Alm is confident they can win, only for them to win but not realize the enemy was luring Alm away to launch a counter attack on Sofia castle.

I didn't manage to predict the off topic discussion on Alm's noble linage though. Curses.

Aaaah well, ya can't win 'em all.

Additionally, I think story-gameplay integration is important and can lead to some awesome moments, but at the same time, the structure of a Fire Emblem game necessitates that you win battles, but bad things still happen. Stuff like Walhart's army chasing you around regardless of your level are sort of par for the course and I don't really think of them as flaws. On that note, I would be all for a Fire Emblem game that let you occasionally loose battles and have that advance the story in a different direction, but I feel like that's not really something the developers are interested in considering.

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13 hours ago, Ottservia said:

SoV’s story has this thing of wanting to do one thing but then showcasing the exact opposite on accident. Like I said, what the story wanted to convey vs what it actually conveyed are two very different things. It’s like trying to bake a cake but instead of cake mix you use brownie mix and it just ends up being really weird.

Which is my problem with it overall. It's an entertaining story, but it's at odds with itself to a bizarre degree. Having Berkut and Fernand ramble about the inherent superiority of nobility only to be proven right when Alm can only accomplish his goal because of his royal blood. 

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The people that wrote the script should have checked Kaga's notes

 

BTW, as far as I remember, Valm (the continent) during the times prior to Awakening (I don't remember the exact time frame, but was basically before the whole deal with Walhart) was divided, with the Valm "Empire" being just the country in the north (which is smaller than the former Rigel Territory).

Edited by Troykv

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On 5/16/2020 at 9:36 PM, Hawkwing said:

The only two games I can think of that had contrivances that didn't affect the story are Grim Fandango and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty. And that's because the former didn't delve too much on the fact the characters were skeletons and said contrivances didn't affect the story itself (rather they raised questions about the setting, even if some of them were pretty clearly just a joke), and the latter used them deliberately as the story was a very meta and in-depth deconstruction of videogames. Otherwise, they're something a story is better off avoiding, and even if they are inevitable, it should not be obvious that the story proceeds because of them.

The thing that bothers me about contrivance is that you can kind of nitpick anything to pieces if you try hard enough so at the end of the day it doesn’t necessarily mean a whole lot. Like in the manga fairy tail there’s a panel where a giant machine only has like six legs but in the next panel it has five and honestly if you’re gonna complain about something that minor I think you just need to stop. Like that’s a bit of an extreme example but you get my point. Obviously things like Contrivance does matter to some degree(like Rudolf’s plan for example is really stupid) but I don’t really think it matters as much as people says it does. 
 

like if a character is straight up acting completely out of character just so the plot can go a certain direction then yeah that’s something to criticize or if a major world building inconsistency pops up. This stuff does matter but complaining about the logistics and history of the royal sword if you were to change it’s wielding requirements is just overthinking it a little too much if you ask me

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On 5/17/2020 at 1:50 AM, Solvaij said:

Additionally, I think story-gameplay integration is important and can lead to some awesome moments, but at the same time, the structure of a Fire Emblem game necessitates that you win battles, but bad things still happen. Stuff like Walhart's army chasing you around regardless of your level are sort of par for the course and I don't really think of them as flaws. On that note, I would be all for a Fire Emblem game that let you occasionally loose battles and have that advance the story in a different direction, but I feel like that's not really something the developers are interested in considering.

I did find Walharts "million strong off-screen army" to be annoying, though more because it was a case of telling instead of showing. Yeah, I buy that fighting his main force head-on is a bad idea, but it would still be nice to see how outnumbered we are, along with how well Robin's plan to throw them into disarray worked. Telling instead of showing is a problem throughout the series, and I wish that they would take more steps to minimize the issue.

I would say that the way Fire Emblem handles permadeath is the main reason why the series has to have the player "win" levels. Getting a TPK and loosing several high ranking soldiers in XCOM sucks big time, but you can still hire new recruits and train them up to become more competent. Whereas in Fire Emblem, you are limited in how many total units you get throughout a playthrough, as well as how many units are in each class. The only other game I can think of that has permadeath along with limited characters is Jagged Alliance, and Jagged Alliance is a game that isn't afraid to make the player loose.

Not to say that Fire Emblem don't account for failing side objectives or having certain units be dead at specific points in the story. On the contrary, a surprising amount of attention is given to situations the player is unlikely to encounter, such as certain scenes in Blazing Sword changing if Matthew kicks the bucket early on or how Chapter 20 of Shadow Dragon has a different ending if Camus survives. They just don't change the overall plot, and though it would be interesting if it did, how well the series handles route splits is a discussion in its own right.

With that said, I do believe Thracia 776 did the best job at having the protagonist "fail" without it coming off as cheap. It did introduce the "escape" objective, after all, and the game is not afraid to throw powerful enemies that you're not meant to defeat at you. This, along with how most of your supplies will come from stealing enemy equipment from captured foes as well as the stamina mechanic really help to sell that you are leading a rebellion against a much stronger opponent with little room to breathe. It would be interesting to see another Fire Emblem game with this kind of aesthetic and design mentality, albeit without being as new/blind player hostile as Thracia 776 could be.

35 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

The thing that bothers me about contrivance is that you can kind of nitpick anything to pieces if you try hard enough so at the end of the day it doesn’t necessarily mean a whole lot.

There are differences between contrivances and nitpicks. Nitpicks are overall minor issues that at the end of the day rarely affect the larger experience. Contrivances give the sense that the story is continuing on because the plot says so instead of events proceeding on naturally. Yeah, coincidences are unavoidable in most stories, but that doesn't prevent the background, set-up, and characters from disguising this. In Star Wars: A New Hope, R2-D2 and C-3PO ending up in Luke's care may be a coincidence, but the previous scenes of rebels running away from the empire, going to Tatooine to find Obi-Wan, both droids ending up being captured and sold by the scavenger Jawas, Luke initially refusing Obi-Wan's offer to join him before the empire forces his hand, and the group going to Mos Eisley to find a pilot and ship to start their mission, all help make the audience forget that R2-D2 and C-3PO may have very well been sold to completely different characters, or may not have even been captured by Jawas at all or ended up in an entirely different situation. The series of events doesn't come off as artificial due to what it establishes and how it builds off what was established.

Contrivances, however, happen because the writers want or need something to happen, yet in execution comes off as forced or artificial. It may not be a plot hole, but when the purpose of the scene or event is focused on continuing the story at the cost of other aspects of the character and setting, it doesn't make it better than one.  James Bond uses gadgets all the time, but if he uses one to escape from a trap when the device wasn't shown off before and it is too specific to the situation for it to have universal applications (and thus it would make sense for an agent to have it regardless of the mission), then that could be considered a plot contrivance that is there simply to have an action scene or fill the gadget quota without taking advantage of foreshadowing or explaining what other purposes the gadget to show why Bond would take it on this mission. Or a character or alien or fantasy race and so on may have an ability that may or may not brought up earlier that continues the story, but if the implications and consequences of what said ability might do outside the plot aren't mentioned or shown, then it could be considered a contrivance since it only affected the narrative when logically it should do more.

I am no literary expert and if someone as a better explanation or examples to share, please feel free to do so. Point being, contrivances harm the story by continuing it through forced and/or artificial means. Things happen to continue the plot and nothing more, when they really should affect other aspects of the story.

19 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Like in the manga fairy tail there’s a panel where a giant machine only has like six legs but in the next panel it has five and honestly if you’re gonna complain about something that minor I think you just need to stop.

I would call that more of a technical goof than a contrivance, which depends on how the context for how forgivable or inexcusable it is.

32 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Obviously things like Contrivance does matter to some degree(like Rudolf’s plan for example is really stupid) but I don’t really think it matters as much as people says it does. 

Personally, I really wish the game focused on the "uniting two nations through a total war" part of Rudolfs plan instead of adding the goddamn "prophesy" part. Or at the very least, saying that Rudolf doesn't put a ton of stock in it but would rather be on the safe side and protect Alm from fanatics who do. It would be a small gamble in part of his larger plan than he knows full well could easily fail but could also reap much larger rewards. A gamble that wouldn't affect his goal of uniting Valentia.

I do find the differences between Duma and Mila's philosophies and how both nations followed them to their detriment to be fascinating, and Rudolfs idea to forcibly unite both countries so that no matter which side wins, the victory need the others virtues to secure their gains, could really only work with this kind of set-up. There are hints that Rudolf attempted this with the earlier war, but stopped when Zofia surrendered and there wasn't much reason to continue due to it being a war for resources instead of conquest. It was certainly more interesting than the "commoners VS nobles" plotline they were aiming for, which the original game didn't have.

56 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

like if a character is straight up acting completely out of character just so the plot can go a certain direction then yeah that’s something to criticize or if a major world building inconsistency pops up. This stuff does matter but complaining about the logistics and history of the royal sword if you were to change it’s wielding requirements is just overthinking it a little too much if you ask me

I chose the Royal Sword because as is, it currently hurts the Echoes themes, but changing the requirement may have consequences elsewhere. It might fit the games messages better, but hurt the integrity of the setting. I have no doubts that there are ways to get the best of both worlds, but brainstorming ideas is why writers get paid, and if we attempted it right now, it would be done with the benefit of hindsight.

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3 hours ago, Ottservia said:

The thing that bothers me about contrivance is that you can kind of nitpick anything to pieces if you try hard enough so at the end of the day it doesn’t necessarily mean a whole lot. Like in the manga fairy tail there’s a panel where a giant machine only has like six legs but in the next panel it has five and honestly if you’re gonna complain about something that minor I think you just need to stop. Like that’s a bit of an extreme example but you get my point. Obviously things like Contrivance does matter to some degree(like Rudolf’s plan for example is really stupid) but I don’t really think it matters as much as people says it does. 
 

like if a character is straight up acting completely out of character just so the plot can go a certain direction then yeah that’s something to criticize or if a major world building inconsistency pops up. This stuff does matter but complaining about the logistics and history of the royal sword if you were to change it’s wielding requirements is just overthinking it a little too much if you ask me

Definition of words needs to come into play here. Because in my lexicon contrivance != nitpick. Your Fairy Tail example isn't a contrivance at all. It's a visual goof. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that the machine is literally growing and losing legs between panels and that this unexplained ability is influencing the narrative in some way.

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1 hour ago, Hawkwing said:

Contrivances, however, happen because the writers want or need something to happen, yet in execution comes off as forced or artificial. It may not be a plot hole, but when the purpose of the scene or event is focused on continuing the story at the cost of other aspects of the character and setting, it doesn't make it better than one.  James Bond uses gadgets all the time, but if he uses one to escape from a trap when the device wasn't shown off before and it is too specific to the situation for it to have universal applications (and thus it would make sense for an agent to have it regardless of the mission), then that could be considered a plot contrivance that is there simply to have an action scene or fill the gadget quota without taking advantage of foreshadowing or explaining what other purposes the gadget to show why Bond would take it on this mission. Or a character or alien or fantasy race and so on may have an ability that may or may not brought up earlier that continues the story, but if the implications and consequences of what said ability might do outside the plot aren't mentioned or shown, then it could be considered a contrivance since it only affected the narrative when logically it should do more.

I get what you’re saying but it’s not necessarily a universal rule. Shounen power ups are something that definitely come to mind and fit this definition of contrived. For example, in One piece Luffy gains the power up of gear second without any training or pre-established method of aquirement so he could have the power necessary to beat the arc’s villains to which he couldn’t before. The explanation is given retro-actively in that he thought about ways to strengthen himself after his first encounter with them. I wouldn’t consider it contrived though because we are given an explanation on how it works, how he aquired it, and it’s drawbacks. Yeah it’s kinda out of nowhere but it’s forgivable because an explanation exists and it’s honestly cool as hell. And again it’s a relatively minor thing to get hung up on.

you could also say the Rigelian vault only allowing those of royal blood to be a contrivance as well because it’s simply an excuse to have Alm get a one on one battle with witch Celica. Or as a better example, Celica being revived by Mila through falchion can also be considered a contrivance by that metric because again it just kinda happens without any pre-established explanation and only exists because well you can’t have Celica stay dead. She’s a protagonist after all. It even contradicts an earlier world building point of witches being unable to revert. There is a thematic explanation though in that this moment is supposed to be the climax and culmination of their character arcs. After they realize the faults in their own ideals they are forced to fight one another but because they believe in each other and trust in each other they are able to undo the consequences of their actions. It’s the realization that they need each other that allows them to prevail and ultimately saves Celica.

Edited by Ottservia

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3 hours ago, Ottservia said:

you could also say the Rigelian vault only allowing those of royal blood to be a contrivance as well because it’s simply an excuse to have Alm get a one on one battle with witch Celica. 

This at least is demonstrably untrue, given that the blood protection on the vault is something that existed twenty five years before Witch Celica was a thing. The reason for the vault only letting Alm in was purely gameplay based. They could have had a 1 on 1 fmv fight and just ignored all the other characters. This wouldn't have been a particularly good thing, but Fire Emblem FMVs or even cutscenes in general regularly do ignore everyone else all the time due to the permadeath nature of the games. Now it might still feel contrived for that purpose because the game wanting Alm and Celica to fight over all is rather contrived, but that's just the 1 on 1 fight in general. We know for a fact that the Alm only section of the game existed before the protagonist face off idea was used. Really the fact that it feels contrived does have more weight than whether it literally was contrived by the writers. In this case due to it being a remake of an old game we know for absolute certainty that the vault wasn't a contrivance by the writers as it existed before, but feeling contrived makes the narrative history of it a bit moot since it invokes the same reaction from the player regardless of the reasoning. Hence why death of the author is a discussed philosophy. Because it's not at all unheard of for the thing the author wants to say and the thing the story actually says resulting in different things.

Edited by Jotari

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44 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I get what you’re saying but it’s not necessarily a universal rule. Shounen power ups are something that definitely come to mind and fit this definition of contrived. For example, in One piece Luffy gains the power up of gear second without any training or pre-established method of aquirement so he could have the power necessary to beat the arc’s villains to which he couldn’t before. The explanation is given retro-actively in that he thought about ways to strengthen himself after his first encounter with them. I wouldn’t consider it contrived though because we are given an explanation on how it works, how he aquired it, and it’s drawbacks. Yeah it’s kinda out of nowhere but it’s forgivable because an explanation exists and it’s honestly cool as hell. And again it’s a relatively minor thing to get hung up on.

I wouldn't call that moment a plot contrivance. We are given information of how the ability works, what causes it, what the drawback are, and I take it it is used throughout the story. It continues the narrative while also addressing the other aspects and consequences of the ability. It doesn't exist solely for the story.

I haven't watched or read One Piece, so I can't comment on whether there was any foreshadowing or not. Nor do I know if the explanation was given retroactively or if it was planned ahead of time and thus the ability deliberately "came out of nowhere" to create a mystery. Not necessarily related to plot contrivance, but execution is important no matter the situation.

I wouldn't say that something being left unexplained or to a lesser degree coming out of nowhere makes something contrived. The Incredibles never explain where powers came from, but the strengths and drawbacks are shown frequently in scenes both major and minor. And in the example you gave, Luffy's ability is sudden, yet it still has an explanation. A plot contrivance may utilize something that was established earlier, but for the sake of continuing the narrative than addressing the other aspects of something.

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

you could also say the Rigelian vault only allowing those of royal blood to be a contrivance as well because it’s simply an excuse to have Alm get a one on one battle with witch Celica. Or as a better example, Celica being revived by Mila through falchion can also be considered a contrivance by that metric because again it just kinda happens without any pre-established explanation and only exists because well you can’t have Celica stay dead. She’s a protagonist after all. It even contradicts an earlier world building point of witches being unable to revert. There is a thematic explanation though in that this moment is supposed to be the climax and culmination of their character arcs. After they realize the faults in their own ideals they are forced to fight one another but because they believe in each other and trust in each other they are able to undo the consequences of their actions. It’s the realization that they need each other that allows them to prevail and ultimately saves Celica.

I wouldn't call the royal vault a contrivance, since that has a logical reason for existing in it's own right, even without the story the game is currently telling.

Alm's solo section I see existing more for gameplay reasons so that Alm gains a few extra levels to be prepared for the final boss. I wouldn't call it contrived because the scene still serves a purpose, even if it is more for gameplay than story. And yeah, it also gives an excuse for why Alm and Celia have their 1-on-1 cutscene fight (which may have been planned to happen in gameplay but was cut. She does have unused voice lines and sprites as a witch).

I won't try to defend the Falchion revival scene. If I had to take a guess, revival springs do exist in Valentia and perhaps Mila and Duma have that kind of power, but I'm not dying on that hill. I would call it the "uses something previous establish for the sake of continuing the story" kind of contrived for this reason.

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8 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

I won't try to defend the Falchion revival scene. If I had to take a guess, revival springs do exist in Valentia and perhaps Mila and Duma have that kind of power, but I'm not dying on that hill. I would call it the "uses something previous establish for the sake of continuing the story" kind of contrived for this reason.

My point in all of that is that I personally don’t care much for contrivance because I value the thematic implications more so than anything else and that the definition of contrivance is very loose to the point where it relies on subjectivity. Suspension of disbelief is entirely subjective what breaks one person’s sense of disbelief will not break another’s. Plot contrivances is inherent to story telling as every event in the story is made to make the plot move forward in some way or another and not everything needs to affect something else within the story. Plot devices are just that for the most part but they can be good if handled well. What I mean to say is plot contrivance only really matters if it doesn’t make sense. The crystal ball in fates is a somewhat bad contrivance simply because it just kinda exists for really no reason. There’s no explanation for how or why it exists or how Azura got it. It just kinda does for the sake of moving the narrative forward. I mean it’s a relatively minor thing but still. If there’s an explanation retroactive or otherwise then fair enough. I ain’t gonna complain about it. 

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12 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

The crystal ball in fates is a somewhat bad contrivance simply because it just kinda exists for really no reason. There’s no explanation for how or why it exists or how Azura got it. It just kinda does for the sake of moving the narrative forward. I mean it’s a relatively minor thing but still. If there’s an explanation retroactive or otherwise then fair enough. I ain’t gonna complain about it. 

That's actually a pretty major thing as the entirety of the protagonists actions from that point forward hinge upon it. Though I feel like the three of us have been in this exact conversation more than once before on the Unpopular Opinions thread.

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5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That's actually a pretty major thing as the entirety of the protagonists actions from that point forward hinge upon it. Though I feel like the three of us have been in this exact conversation more than once before on the Unpopular Opinions thread.

We have so I’ll just keep it brief and say that’s a fair enough assessment to make

Edited by Ottservia

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On 5/16/2020 at 2:19 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

Personally, I think Celica plays quite nicely as she is when you consider Jedah. Both strive in the line of thought that humanity should remain under the guiding hands of the gods, and dutifully strive to serve their respective patron deities. Some consider Celica to be naive or dumb for trusting Jedah, but I think the reason Jedah was able to convince her in the first place as because Celica saw the similarities between she and him.

Which is precisely the tragedy. Jedah's plan had the trappings that it wasn't going to work (I think it was implied it wouldn't work, may need to recheck that), but he himself seemed confident it would. It was basically the blind leading the blind. From a narrative stand point, I like that.

She’s dumb for trusting Jeddah becuase Jeddah proves himself to be untrustworthy.  Like when he tries to kill her friends.

Also normal people don’t look like what Jeddah does.  It’s clear he’s done something dodgy to end up that way.

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On 5/17/2020 at 5:28 AM, Acacia Sgt said:

It boils back to what I wrote:

The game itself also delivers. I'll just use their default endings (assuming a everyone recruited and alive playthrough).

As we can see, they accepted Alm is out of their league... and yet they still strove to reach high. Even if they couldn't measure up to Alm, their own accomplishments are still very full of worth.

Which boils down back to the fact you and omega are very fixated on the worth of birthright, not unlike Ferdinand.

The thing is, what is the exact message the game is trying to send? Alm is still right. A commoner like Tobin can rise to great heights as much a noble like Ferdinand can fall from grace. They're equal in that sense. So what if the heights aren't the same? Dwelling too much on that is how things can get ugly.

It boils down if it really need a system change, instead of just tweak. The fact Tobin became a noble shows he still greatly restructured the system. Also, Tobin only may seem like an exception because it's the only one mentioned in the game. We don't know anything about the rest of his rule, or that of his descendants, if they were also instilled the same values Alm preached and thus did further changes on their own. Not every big change requires a revolution or big upheaval like Edelgard's.

Tobin wasn't lucky. He worked to earn that title. Which shows you can reform the system as much as throwing it away and putting a new one in place.

Well, as the phrase says, "It takes two to tango". You are fixated on his station of birth, as I told Ottservia, which is part of the problem. Alm still has merit. The path may already be made for him, but he still had to choose to go through it, work to overcome the obstacles and difficulties of said path, and to make it through to the very end. Alm could've still failed. He truly is no different in that aspect. It's different in that he had to face different hurdles, but his path is not hurdle free, which is what makes it similar to others.

Tobin and Grey getting high positions is barely a sign of any change.  They’re kings best friends ffs.

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On 5/17/2020 at 1:56 PM, Ottservia said:

SoV is the perfect example of a story where what the author wanted to convey vs what they actually conveyed can be two very different things

Most Fire Emblem games I’ve played feel like that.

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On 5/17/2020 at 4:31 AM, Ottservia said:

True but that still doesn’t change the fact that Alm contradicts that entire thematic through line and he’s the goddamn main character. Y’know the one person who should embody all the themes of their narrative. Again the story states numerous times that he is better than everyone because he was born a royal. The game makes a very big point of that meaning he contradicts what he preaches thereby making Berkut out to be right because he states a commoner cannot lead which is proven true by the story because the only leaders we ever see in this story are well nobles or those of noble/royal birth. Not once do we ever see a commoner take a leadership role in this story meaning Berkut’s claim go uncontested

I saw it kinda differently, Sure Alm is a royal (and the game hints at this in ways that are kinda overt.) but the way I saw it, the fact he was raised as a commoner in a villager is what ultimately made him the great ruler he ends up being, granted, I'm bringing the DLC into this but in the prequel DLC, the Harbor flat-out has a Rebellion that Clive and Fernand have to fight off due to the nobility neglecting the poor. (Also the Deliverence actually ends up screwing up significantly under Clive's Leadership at least once, with them having to basically take noble folk hostages and drag them off threatening to kill them if the enemy force pursues them, which does manage to explain why he lets Alm keep ruling even if the player messed up since even then Alm has arguably screwed up less than Clive did in the DLC.)

Alm however I doubt would neglect the poor, while Lima was content to neglect the commonfolk, Alm is quite literally willing to go plowing in the fields despite being a noble, he's going to try to fix Valentia himself instead of basically leaving the commonfolk with empty promises like Lima, the way I see it him being a member of Nobility really just stops the Power Vaccum that would happen when a Ruler dies without a heir somewhat (So people are more willing to accept him as ruler), him being a commoner at heart is what ultimately makes him a good ruler. (Even if he does get the mandatory magic sword that only the protagonist can use.)

 

 

Edited by Samz707

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