Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Completed first dungeon in Persona 4 Golden.

At first I thought I was totally screwed because my party started with like no SP against Shadow Yukiko, but it was not too bad to take her out. Thankfully game gave me some items like marakukaja and masukaja, so I didn't even need much SP for this fight aside of Chie for bufu. I remember this fight was much more painful (as pretty much each boss) in regular Persona 4.

It may keep going like this.

Even after five years this theme goes on my nerves after a while, just repetitive.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Kasumi Yoshizawa

[Saint Rubenio]

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

Ehhh it was a definitely a contributing factor but it more has to do with marketing. History shows again and again that the better you market something, the better it sells. Nintendo's marketing of Fire Emblem was horrendous during Tellius and DS. GBA got away with it coming right off the heels of Melee.

Also bolded: i feel like this mainly applies to Fates and it was at it's worst. It was there to a lesser extent in Awakening but Awakening was thought to be the last game in the series so IntSys probably figured they might as well go out with a bang. Fates was IntSys seeing "hey people liked Awakening, what if we did it again" without understanding why people liked Awakening so even though Fates sold like hot cakes, it's reception is not good. Gameplay seems like the only thing people generally agree upon (for all the flaws in the writing and whatnot, Conquest gameplay is very good). Then you look at Echoes and Three Houses and it's all pretty dialed back. They've learned.

Besides, horny fanart is eternal. Pokemon is targeted towards people of all ages but every time a female character is revealed, within 10 minutes there is already porn.

And honestly, fanservice doesn't bother me that much. There's definitely a time and place and there will be times where i roll my eyes but unless it's doing nothing but clashing with the game, i don't mind.

Hmm... You know, I kinda regret going on that rant now. It was a bit late... I apologize if I came across as overly holier-than-thou.

Still, I stand by my point, to an extent. 90% of Fatesawakening designs are terrible, in my opinion at least. Three Houses is better about it, but all the female class models except fortress knight have boob windows or extremely short shorts for no good reason... And, to be honest, I find Sothis's design to be just as bad as Nowi's. It's enough to make me skip all the scenes with her (which, thankfully, aren't many, because she also happens to be one of the game's most underutilized characters).

This is not to say the older games are completely free of these issues, but from where I stand, they definitely seem to suffer from them a lot less.

Though I suppose at this point it may be a me problem. I'm not tolerant of fanservice. I don't believe that kind of stuff has a place in a story that fancies itself even slightly serious. It seems Japan's favorite brand of comic relief is "look at the funny girl with her boobs flying all over the place! That dude just fell on the boobs, isn't that hilarious!?", and... I don't know, it just makes me facepalm every single time.

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

I see what you mean and it's probably due to the Avatar system. But having tea with someone is way more sensible than inviting them to your room so you could poke their face.

Oh yeah, absolutely Better Than Fates™. But Better Than Fates™ does not make it "good". With the adults it's okay'ish (still a bit weird to stare at people's boobs, but whatever, it's a game), but tea time with the students is kinda pushing the same technicality that "1000 year old loli" lives and dies by. And then there's the sauna. And S-Supports, which in this game serve absolutely no purpose beyond marrying your waifu of choice.

Again, probably not as much of an issue for other people as it is for me. And it's thankfully aspects of the game that can be skipped, mostly. But... I don't know, maybe I'm just too cranky. Oh, well.

10 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Geez, it's like you don't know about Rule 34...

You know, this may sound contradictory, but I actually don't mind Rule 34. You want to make horny fanart of a character you like? Sure, go right ahead, it's not my problem. My problem is when it's the creators that make official Rule 34 and put it into their otherwise serious stories. There's a time and a place for that kind of stuff, and personally, I don't think that is when I'm trying to enjoy a war drama that tries to be serious most of the time. There's other ways to add comic relief.

But, once again, this is all my humble opinion. And, heck, I can enjoy something even if it has fanservice; but I'll definitely consider the fanservice a flaw.

3 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Caeda

😛

Sheeda

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

did someone say war?

Are we making tier lists now?

 

[null]

Morning everyone. *waves*

Sleep? What is that? Sleep is for the weak, yeah. /s

We doing tier lists?

Nice.

[Saint Rubenio]

2 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

You: PEAK FE, BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP IT

Me: M i d d l i n g

Opinions are a funny thing.

[Pengaius]

I see we are causing arguments now. 

If you are wondering I'm ironmanning the best best FE

 

[Shrimpica]

So Full thoughts on Kaga's hottest game, Berwick Saga: Lazberia Chronicle Chapter 174

My thoughts are still a rumbled mess, but i will try to write them down in detail haha.

Gameplay and Turn system:

When it comes to the turn system, i am actually a pretty big fan of. There are some cases where it doesn't work well (mainly when the game spams too much reinforcements at once, as it ends up feeling like an ambush spawn then), but there are only 2 such cases iirc, so i won't hold it against the game. I imagine if the game had ever gotten a sequel or Kaga made a game in the same style, the turn system could've evolved into something really really amazing. Key words: Turn manipulation skills, Different Magic system to accommodate the turn system, etc. still, i like the turn system!

Also loved how the game had a focus on skills and gave even some mobs skills. It reminded of Conquest during fun maps. I am generally in the faction of ''FE needs to go more the direction of Skills and Combat Arts'' as some of you might now, and this game does fit that bill, mostly. Am a big fan of how the game did Range and fliers, too!

Also, Kudos to most of the cast of being useful and having some niche that even if they were bad at combat, they had something they could. I think the number of characters i would call useless are 4 or so. Reese is also a good lord. Atlhough on the stronger side of lords, he is not super op. And thankfully not useless. Special Kudos to Dean, Sylvis, Faye, Larentia, Sherpa, Aegina and Enid for being my MVPs, and Elbert for dodgetanking every Archer and Ballista in the game haha.

As for maps, i liked to beginning (until ch5) and really really loved the end (ch12 until Endgame). Wasn't a big fan of the midgame (ch6 to 11, excluding ch10) and found them to be rather weak. Side chapters some were decent (most of them fall here), some were good (Desert with Nosferatusword, prisonescape), some bad (any Terrain + Thiefs map was a pain, Faya Paralogue), some atrocious (hello Snow Map and 11-2), they were mostly nothing special and used to train my units. Was also not a big fan of how way too many maps involved green units. I did love how side quests didn't involve Reese though.

The Midgame

This is for me, the weakest part of the game. From both gameplay and story prespective. Story wise, i felt like an errand boy doing adventure guild quest in a RPG, which is something i don't think fits FE much, imo.

Gameplay wise those maps were mostly ''Green units 24 turns escape'' and they start empty, allowing the player to very easily go and camp the spawn spots and pick off enemies one by one. It was mostly waiting simulator until Turn 18 or so when the player starts to escape and then strong loot appears, for which you send your strongest 2 units to pick off and retreat. All these chapters felt way too samey, and i am sure some of you have seen me joking/complaining about ''24 turns green escape'' alot haha.

I would've prefered much more if in that midgame section we had Major Spoilers

Spoiler

played from a different pov during those chapters and had some more offesive orriented chapters instead. 

Imagine if we had some chapters were we played as Lynette or Zephyrus. Would've been much more fun, imo. Also gives us the point of view of others the game keeps teasing us about, and added some much needed characterization to some characters (Hello Simpette) and worldbuilding.

Do note that i am a big fan of how Radiant Dawn did things, so i would've liked to see something similiar here.

But yeah, the Midgame is like, my biggest gripe with the game.

RNG and ''Kaga Why'' Design descisions

I've played 1RN games and was able  to deal with them. The hitrates in Berwick were also manageable, most of the time, and the game does give the player tools to somehow migitate it. I still would've liked to see higher hits in general, but that isn't that big of a problem.

The problem is a combination of factors that all involve RNG. Shields being RNG i wasn't big fan of, neither was crits being Random 10 to 20 extra Damage. I don't think FE combat needs extra layers of RNG, and those changes just added that. 

Then you have weapons randomly breaking. Shiny 5k gold weapon breaking after 1 Astra because it became Green and RNG decided it's time for the weapon to die. Way too many expensive weapons i lost to that.

Kudos to that 1 turn i missed a 99, got hit by a 30 Poleaxe and my horse dying, and Gram breaking at green. That was an insta reset right there. Or the time i missed a 3x brave 88 with Sherpa.

And if all that wasn't enough, you got capturing being totally RNG. This just added more to the frustration, since it was also a major source of income. If Kaga wanted to do something different from FE5, he should've made it something like ''you can capture units below 10% HP'' or something like that.

All that combined did gave to quite a frustrating experience quite a number of times.

Also Kaga's anti-efficiency measures i wasn't a fan of. Good loot, recruitable enemies and stuff needed for citizen quests first appearing on Turn 18-22 while player could've completed the maps in 10-15 turns i wasn't a big fan of (some of you saw me complaining way too many times about that as well). Now i am not saying player should get everything while LTC'ing, but expecting the player to finish in ~12 turns should be good, no?

Speaking of Citizen requests, while i like the concept, i think the implementaiton falls on it's head, especially when it forces you characters you benched. Alot of maps had me running with 25% useless units or units i didn't use.

And while i was generally a fan of the combat art system, it needed to be balanced a bit more. Like i don't understand why Focus chant has the same cooldown as Astra, especially when you consider that Focus chant is only way any of your mages (except Enid with Pallas Leia) will hit anything.

Also character support bonuses being mostly so minor was ???.

And did healers really need the 3 Mov nerf and only 3 Range Physic? Same with Armor units and their 3 Mov.

Promotions, Character Progression and formulas

This is something i feel the game didn't do well, imo. Outside of Faye, Reese and Enid, most promotions had me at either ''That's it?'' or ''When will you promote so i can raise your weapon rank?''. In most FE i usually look forward to character promotions, either for new skills or weapons. Here a promotion was just something so weapon skill can go above 30.

Also promotion being tied to weapon skill i am very meh on. It kinda felt like the 3H promotion system, without having means to raise your weapon skill out of battle. Especially when you factor in that sometimes you need shield rank (which means your character getting hit, which you should avoid) for promotion.

Character lvl also being weapon lvl is something i don't like. Made it hard to use some weaker characters that could've easily benefited from stronger weapons. As an example, imagine if Sherlock had C Bows at base (using taditional FE weapon system as an example) and could use some more accurate and stronger Bows, then he wouldn't be such a pain to use. In the 5 maps or so i deployed Sherlock he only hit a total of 2 Attacks.

Character Hit being Weapon hit + skill while Avoid being 2*AS was also an eye raising design decision, although generally i felt it worked well, except if you were facing thiefs on terrain.

Story, Characters and Music

Story wise, it all felt like on big prequel, especially with the slow pacing of the game. Was there a sequel in the planning or something, if any of you know that? It kinda felt like PoR and that a ''RD'' was in the planning, so to say.

Characters were cool, however like all old FE they needed some more depth and interaction with each other. While the game doesn't thankfully have a support system, Character usually interacted only with one or two other characters. I would've liked to see more interaction between the cast. I will say though from the Kaga lords Reese is my favourite, especially with what he did at the end.

I have to say though, i did like how we got insights from the other side. The game wasn't black and white as Kaga games usually were, and love that Major spoiler

Spoiler

Final boss isn't evul dragon lol. Although could've done without that one last plot twist with Dark Cult ™️

Also, i don't think i need to say anything about the romance in the game hahahaha. It wasn't done well

Music was really really good.

Final words and TL;DR

All in all, i enjoyed my time with the game, and i can imagine if it wasn't for the Midgame and RNG frustrations, this game could've easily joined Conquest as one of my best gameplay experiences ever, alas, i wonder if i will ever get another Conquest gameplay experience...

How i rated the game with other FE to compare.

@Saint Rubenio @Benice Since i imagine you guys might be interested haha.

Final Party

Spoiler

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Shrimperor

[Lightcosmo]

Good morning!

[null]

Morning! *waves*

[Saint Rubenio]

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

Snip

Well, I'm glad you ended up thinking so highly of the game! I mean, kinda hurts to see it below Three Houses of all things, and 45 for New Mystery is a personal offense, and where is Shadow Dragon...

Nah, but all jokes aside. I'm glad you've enjoyed the game! Obviously I disagree with some points (mainly... every negative, as you'd expect), but it's fair enough. I agree that a sequel would've been awesome. Shame the company went under after Berwick. Berwick 2 could've been so good... But, I think one Berwick's good enough.

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

It kinda felt like PoR and that a ''RD'' was in the planning, so to say.

I'd like to talk about this in more detail, because I feel like they did want to do a sequel, but they were also expecting to go under before they could, and that's why... ENDING SPOILERS

Spoiler

They wrap up the war in the final map scene. It feels like they wanted to leave the Zephyrus and Bernard conquests for a sequel to explore, but they also didn't want to risk the game ending on a cliffhanger that would never be resolved, so they threw in a conclusion that they could easily pick up afterwards if they could.. which they couldn't, of course. A shame.

To be honest, though, I disagree that the game feels like a prequel. It just has a different scope than usual FE stories. The game makes it quite clear that you're not the end-all-be-all of the war, and I think that's perfectly fine. It's different, and personally, I think it makes the final battle even more satisfying, in a way. It feels more personal than "kill evil dragon that is behind the big war".

Well, in any case. Again, glad you enjoyed the game. It is sorely underrated, so I can only hope your positive experience encourages more people here to play it! See, guys? It's not just Benice and me! Despising Three Houses's guts isn't a requirement for enjoying Berwick Saga!

[Lightcosmo]

4 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

The problem is a combination of factors that all involve RNG. Shields being RNG i wasn't big fan of, neither was crits being Random 10 to 20 extra Damage. I don't think FE combat needs extra layers of RNG, and those changes just added that. 

I actually think that crit mechanic is pretty good. Better than simply one hit massacres on everything you touch. (I.E Rutger) since, IMO, 3X is way too much damage. Although i know they pierce defence which depending on how much it matters, could be changed a bit.

[Shrimpica]

59 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

where is Shadow Dragon...

Games not listed i didn't play enough to decide XD

although generally didn't like them

59 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

kinda hurts to see it below Three Houses of all things

I think without the RNG frustrations and the midgame stuff it could've topped it imo, honestly. 

But i think you remember how i felt about that during all my rants in midgame xD

59 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

A shame.

yeah. Because i can see a sequel solving alot of problems depending on fanfeedback (especially capturing and weapo breaking i hear are major complaints with most people)

Kinda funny though that alot of mechanics i generally enjoyed from fangames and hacks were first introduced in Berwick but adapted to be less RNG centric in FE engine haha.

As i said, General Mechanics i am fan of xD

59 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

The game makes it quite clear that you're not the end-all-be-all of the war, and I think that's perfectly fine.

That it is! That's why i wanted to explore other PoVs, though.

59 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

It feels more personal than "kill evil dragon that is behind the big war".

tbf, anything is better than that

 

59 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

See, guys? It's not just Benice and me! Despising Three Houses's guts isn't a requirement for enjoying Berwick Saga!

You forgot that i generally like Kaga games more than everyone here, despite my problems with them xD

But yeah everyone should give it a try haha.

I also like the games for different reasons. For example you see how i rated Conquest quite highly despite giving any non-gameplay related thing F, while FE4 with the D gameplay i gave a 7 instead of 5, etc.

57 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

I actually think that crit mechanic is pretty good. Better than simply one hit massacres on everything you touch. (I.E Rutger) since, IMO, 3X is way too much damage. Although i know they pierce defence which depending on how much it matters, could be changed a bit.

thing is, 10-20 extra damage is a lot, too, and unlike normal crits you can't calculate how much a crit will deal exactly. A unit dealing 3 damage normally with a crit could deal up to 23, as an example.

I agree 3x is too much, and i generally want the crit mechanic in FE overhauled, but not in a way that adds even more randomness to it

Edited October 24, 2020 by Shrimperor

[Sooks]

We’re starting flame wars making tier lists today? Okay! Sounds fun! 
Oh wait I’ve played less than half of the series...

[DragonFlames]

Hello again, everyone. *waves*
Damn, I feel like shit...

Here is my FE games tier list (final placement of FE12 is somewhat pending, because I only played it once, but I remember enjoying myself).

Edited October 24, 2020 by DragonFlames

[Sooks]

I hate chapter 11.....

[Interdimensional Observer]

Why? Did you aggro Gangy too soon and he's doubling you with his Levin Sword? I do love what he says in the end, reminds you how the last moments of your life will ultimately be.😁

Edited October 24, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[DragonFlames]

5 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

I hate chapter 11.....

That one can get tricky, because the guy moves after a while, iirc. My advise for you: try to stay out of his range until you've gotten rid of a majority of other enemy units. And when he comes for you, dogpile him with your strongest units.

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

That one can get tricky, because the guy moves after a while, iirc. My advise for you: try to stay out of his range until you've gotten rid of a majority of other enemy units. And when he comes for you, dogpile him with your strongest units.

My problem is that all these forts are so close together it’s hard not to get enemy phased by the strong ambush spawns when the enemies are already pretty strong. I never made it to the boss...

[DragonFlames]

Just now, Sooks1016 said:

My problem is that all these forts are so close together it’s hard not to get enemy phased by the strong ambush spawns when the enemies are already pretty strong. I never made it to the boss...

Ah, I see. Do you think you can reach the forts before the reinforcements arrive? Or will you risk death doing so?

[Saint Rubenio]

35 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

Guess I'll die, then.

 

57 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

I think without the RNG frustrations and the midgame stuff it could've topped it imo, honestly. 

But i think you remember how i felt about that during all my rants in midgame xD

Well, I didn't expect you to enjoy it as much as you did, so that's already a win for me. Really, I'm just happy you liked it.

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

tbf, anything is better than that

I don't know, Veld exists...

58 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

I agree 3x is too much, and i generally want the crit mechanic in FE overhauled, but not in a way that adds even more randomness to it

TearRing Saga does it in a different way. Crits are 2x, but they increase the unit's attack before substracting the defense. For example, if a unit has 15 attack and the enemy has 10 defense, a crit will deal 20 damage. How does that sound to you?

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Ah, I see. Do you think you can reach the forts before the reinforcements arrive? Or will you risk death doing so?

I will definitely risk death, they are surrounded by enemies. The problem is that I can’t tackle the front of those enemies because the forts are in range, and when the ambush spawns spawn, someone dies, and if I sent a unit there they would die.

[Shrimpica]

16 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Well, I didn't expect you to enjoy it as much as you did, so that's already a win for me. Really, I'm just happy you liked it.

^^

Thanks for all the tips!

Btw, what made you think i would hate it? Now i am curious xD

16 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

TearRing Saga does it in a different way. Crits are 2x, but they increase the unit's attack before substracting the defense. For example, if a unit has 15 attack and the enemy has 10 defense, a crit will deal 20 damage. How does that sound to you?

That's also how FE4 and FE5 do it, and that's usually stronger than current formula haha.

I generally want crits nerfed for everyone except classes who depend on it (Swordmasters, Berserkers, etc)

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Shrimperor

[DragonFlames]

16 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

I will definitely risk death, they are surrounded by enemies. The problem is that I can’t tackle the front of those enemies because the forts are in range, and when the ambush spawns spawn, someone dies, and if I sent a unit there they would die.

That's a conundrum to be sure.
I'm honestly not sure what you could do in that case. Sorry...

[null]

20 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

I will definitely risk death, they are surrounded by enemies. The problem is that I can’t tackle the front of those enemies because the forts are in range, and when the ambush spawns spawn, someone dies, and if I sent a unit there they would die.

I'd recommend camping out and taking down the reinforcements first. Lure them out and thin out their numbers. Once most of the enemies have been defeated (wait a couple turns to make sure no more enemies will spawn), then you can advance on Gangrel without too much trouble. He doesn't move unless you get in range, so keep your distance until then.

---------

Well, time to continue with Sky SC. I think I'm halfway through the game IIRC.

[Shrimpica]

11 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Well, time to continue with Sky SC.

Enjoy the best game existence!

[Sooks]

Help.

I can’t believe I forgot to check Gangrel’s range...

Also for those curious, I dealt with the northwest ambush spawns by holding the choke point with Sully and was strong enough to tank the other ones