Armagon Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 minute ago, DragonFlames said: And this exactly where Selena fails: The context of why she is the way she is is just gone. Or more like the context is still there, there just wasn't need to retread ground we've already covered. Of course, I suppose the same can be said about Odin taking the chunni to the max. Honestly, the Awakening trio already got their core development in Awakening and while it would've been nice to see them get more (well they did have some neat moments in Fates), it's not the end of the world. It's why I'm totally onboard with them being dimension hoppers if IntSys decided to be funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twilit Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, DragonFlames said: And this exactly where Selena fails: The context of why she is the way she is is just gone. This is basically it for me. The tsundere trope usually relies on a reason for the tsundere behavior existing to make sense and work well (Taiga Aisaka, for example). Without that, she's just an overly competitive jackass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, Armagon said: Or more like the context is still there, there just wasn't need to retread ground we've already covered. Of course, I suppose the same can be said about Odin taking the chunni to the max. Honestly, the Awakening trio already got their core development in Awakening and while it would've been nice to see them get more (well they did have some neat moments in Fates), it's not the end of the world. It's why I'm totally onboard with them being dimension hoppers if IntSys decided to be funny. I see your point, but honestly? I'd rather newer FE games stand on their own two feet and not feel the need to bring back old characters just for the sake of it. Especially if we end up with another Fates situation, where the reason as to why they are there at all has literally zero impact on proceedings, despite the DLC that explains it (which is another thing I really hate, by the way - either you explain shit in the game or you don't) suggesting it should have. Just now, twilitfalchion said: This is basically it for me. The tsundere trope usually relies on a reason for the tsundere behavior existing to make sense and work well (Taiga Aisaka, for example). Without that, she's just an overly competitive jackass. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Let's be honest: They work for Nohr. That says more then enough about what kind of people they are. Considering they don't even live there, it's not like they just got drafted like your average Nohrian citizen would. They have no excuse other then their commitment to be utter scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BrightBow said: Let's be honest: They work for Nohr. That says more then enough about what kind of people they are. Considering they don't even live there, it's not like they just got drafted like your average Nohrian citizen would. They have no excuse other then their commitment to be utter scum. Thanks for reinforcing my hatred. XD But yeah, serioulsy. Them working for Nohr is so out of character it's unbelievable. Awakening spoilers! Spoiler I mean, Iago is basically the same guy as Validar, whom those three should consider their Nemesis as the one behind their dark future. And that's not even getting into Garon. Not that his kids are much better, tbf. Also, there is exactly zero reason as to why they would be reduced to licking their respective Royal's boots so much. They didn't do that for Lucina in Awakening... like, at all. Edited October 30, 2020 by DragonFlames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 If never unlocked them in Awakening, but if they are anything like the rest of the cast in that game, then them picking the side that lets them murder with impunity is entirely in character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) Considering... Spoiler What could Anankos have possibly told them They might be there in Nohr since it's the better way to keep an eye on certain someone... maybe. Who knows... Edited October 30, 2020 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said: Considering... Hide contents What could Anankos have possibly told them They might be there in Nohr since it's the better way to keep an eye on certain someone... maybe. Who knows... Fates is not getting any points for stuff they made up afterwards. For crying out loud, Gaiden with it's barebone script was able to explain what Catria and Palla were doing in Valentia. Fates has no excuse. It just doesn't care about why supposedly heroic characters associate with murderers and other evil folks. I mean, they didn't care in Awakening either, so why start now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, BrightBow said: Fates is not getting any points for stuff they made up afterwards. For crying out loud, Gaiden with it's barebone script was able to explain what Catria and Palla were doing in Valentia. Fates has no excuse. It just doesn't care about why supposedly heroic characters associate with murderers and other evil folks. I mean, they didn't care in Awakening either, so why start now? Wouldn't say made up afterward, but rather withhold deliberately. Since the idea is you play the incomplete pictures of Conquest and Birthright, THEN get the full picture with Revelation. And details like that DLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, Acacia Sgt said: Wouldn't say made up afterward, but rather withhold deliberately. Since the idea is you play the incomplete pictures of Conquest and Birthright, THEN get the full picture with Revelation. And details like that DLC. Uh, no. The 3 routes are mutually exclusive. They are not part of a greater whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twilit Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Fates' attempt at a three route experience didn't come together in any way that made the least bit of sense until Three Houses. Including all three paths in one game would've been the ideal way to package Fates in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 25 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said: This is basically it for me. The tsundere trope usually relies on a reason for the tsundere behavior existing to make sense and work well (Taiga Aisaka, for example). Without that, she's just an overly competitive jackass. Yeah, that's how it is for me too although in more light-hearted stuff, I'm fine with characters being tsundere, or any other trope, for the sake of it. 20 minutes ago, DragonFlames said: I'd rather newer FE games stand on their own two feet and not feel the need to bring back old characters just for the sake of it. I agree, I just think it'd be neat if there was a Stan Lee situation going on with those three, where they just show up without reason and they don't really need a reason tbh. And before you bring up Anna, Anna is a different character each time. Of course, ideally, this would fall to the Cipher characters because they canonically do dimension hop but they only showed up in Echoes and it was only four out of the seven. And with Cipher over, I doubt they'll be seen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, twilitfalchion said: Including all three paths in one game would've been the ideal way to package Fates in the first place. No it wouldn't. Considering the entire concept behind Revelation is to make the other two routes obsolete. Well, unless you really like Scarlet, I suppose. Edited October 30, 2020 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Although I have to say, murdering with impunity is something you do in EVERY Fire Emblem game. It's not exactly a fault of Awakening. Still, them joining Nohr is idiotic It being explained in a DLC is even worse. And said DLC not being referenced at all in Revelations is just the final nail in the coffin for me to say their inclusion was completely unnecessary and pointless. Just now, Armagon said: Of course, ideally, this would fall to the Cipher characters because they canonically do dimension hop Big agree here. Emma, Randal, Yuzu, and Shade are legit some of my favorites in the whole series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, BrightBow said: Uh, no. The 3 routes are mutually exclusive. They are not part of a greater whole. To stand as games on their own, yes. But they're not really mutually exclusive. Spoiler The threat of Valla and Anankos doesn't go away just because you decided to focus solely on the Nohr-Hoshido conflict. Any other way it'd be a sequel game, not the Golden Route. It's not different from Mystery or Binding having their standard endings that are ending on their own right, but with a lose plot threads that only get explored if you unlock the true endings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Funny you people mention that. Since if I recall correctly, that's what Kaga wanted to do with the Whitewings. And the Falchion. And Gradivus. And likely other things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twilit Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, BrightBow said: No it wouldn't. Considering the entire concept behind Revelation is to make the other two routes obsolete. Not exactly. Revelation is a golden route, but that does not make Birthright or Conquest obsolete. Just different variations on the same experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said: To stand as games on their own, yes. But they're not really mutually exclusive. Hide contents The threat of Valla and Anankos doesn't go away just because you decided to focus solely on the Nohr-Hoshido conflict. Any other way it'd be a sequel game, not the Golden Route. It's not different from Mystery or Binding having their standard endings that are ending on their own right, but with a lose plot threads that only get explored if you unlock the true endings. So basically in two of the three routes, nothing was actually accomplished because they are all gonna get crushed by the revelations threats anyway. Great connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, BrightBow said: So basically in two of the three routes, nothing was actually accomplished because they are all gonna get crushed by the revelations threats anyway. Great connection. THat's what we call plot hook. Again, in any other situation, Revelation would've been a sequel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) Just now, Acacia Sgt said: THat's what we call plot hook. Again, in any other situation, Revelation would've been a sequel. That's what we call a Bad Ending. Not something you dedicate two separate 40 bucks game to. Edited October 30, 2020 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, DragonFlames said: Big agree here. Emma, Randal, Yuzu, and Shade are legit some of my favorites in the whole series. Same. Shade legit surprised me because I thought she was just gonna be Camilla 2. 2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said: Funny you people mention that. Since if I recall correctly, that's what Kaga wanted to do with the Whitewings. And the Falchion. And Gradivus. And likely other things... Oh yeah, the Regalia still show up in Echoes with no explanation. They're supposed to be these awesome weapons in Archanea but a random blacksmith in Valentia can just forge you Parthia, that's pretty funny. But yeah, Kaga definitely wanted a Zelda thing going on where certain characters and weapons make continuous appearances. I mean, just look at Tyrfing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benice Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 tbh I personally think Fates' route split is better than TH's, since, while I do have to play all, (or two) or the routes to get the full story, I'm at least not playing the same game twice or thrice. TH's is playing the same game four times to have an idea of what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Just now, Armagon said: Oh yeah, the Regalia still show up in Echoes with no explanation. They're supposed to be these awesome weapons in Archanea but a random blacksmith in Valentia can just forge you Parthia, that's pretty funny. But yeah, Kaga definitely wanted a Zelda thing going on where certain characters and weapons make continuous appearances. I mean, just look at Tyrfing. To be fair, we don't even know how the Regalia came to be. In the original Gaiden it was only Gradivus, which had an explanation to be. THe Falchion was the one acting as a legacy weapon, that just happened to have same name and sorta appearance as the Archanea one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Armagon said: Same. Shade legit surprised me because I thought she was just gonna be Camilla 2. Yeah, I thought the same. Luckily, we were both wrong. XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) Well, Camilla's sole character trait besides being a sadistic murder is that she wants to hump the player self-insert. Hard to do that if you are just a character in a card game. Edited October 30, 2020 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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