Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Saint Rubenio]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Live a Live

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Okay but Oersted’s chapter is actually a little boring. If suffers from a lot of the same issues as Akira’s, albeit there’s only a little bit of pointless backtracking and the first battle against the Lord of the Dark with all four party members was actually fun. The biggest difference was that the ending was actually kind of interesting? Only because of the Odio at the end, which basically serves to tell the player “okay, now we’re getting to where they all connect!”, because that’s literally the only interesting thing that happens. Nothing with Streibough really made any sense and I don’t care about what happens to any of these characters, just like Akira’s story (well Uranus and Hasshe were cool).

So that would make my chapter rankings: Present Day > Imperial China > Distant Future > Wild West > Prehistory > Middle Ages > Twilight of Edo Japan > Near Future.

 

 

Spoiler

Fighting words.

I see a lot of fighting words.

Anyway, do yourself a favor and start the final chapter as Oersted.

 

[Sooks]

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

 

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Fighting words.

I see a lot of fighting words.

Anyway, do yourself a favor and start the final chapter as Oersted.

 

Spoiler

You liked Oersted? Or is it just that Pogo’s above him?

And I’ll take that under consideration when I learn what it is you’re talking about.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Sooks

[Shrimpica]

Sauce

[Saint Rubenio]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

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You liked Oersted? Or is it just that Pogo’s above him?

And I’ll take that under consideration when I learn what it is you’re talking about.

 

 

Spoiler

I mean, I consider medieval to be above every regular scenario. I love the tragedies, the thin veneer of hope that leads to the plot twist, the way it brings the entire game together, Streibough's mad rant, Streibough's voice actor, overthinking Streibough's motivations based on the things he says in said mad rant, the implication derived from this that Oersted wasn't the generic perfect hero he was set up to be, his own mad rant at the end, how he breaks the stereotypical protagonist silence to deliver it, Fugue for the Lord of Dark blasting at the end as the credits roll over Odio's rebirth...

I love it. I love it to pieces. I went into Live a Live all those years ago having it spoiled and it still gave me chills. And now I did it again for the remake, and it gave me the chills all over again because of how incredible the presentation was this time around.

...But, then, I don't know how much of this could be nostalgia. Few times have I had my nostalgia appealed to on this level. I suppose I'm not an unbiased judge, in this case.

Besides, worse comes to worst, I've not ran out of RPGs yet. I can still try to rope you into playing Exit Fate. Still the biggest surprise of the year.

 

[GuardianSing]

See the problem with Soren being the racist one is that I can't also imagine him saying stuff like this and genuinely believing it.

Engage in the politics of your country folks, stuff not effecting you directly is no excuse not to participate, especially when such apathy is what lets harmful actions pass.

When you are used to privilege, equality can feel like oppression.

Volke being tied with Titania as the second strongest unit in the group is extremely funny to me.

Teehee.

Damn DMPCs.

And here I thought Awakening was the first game to give Anna a personality.

Teehee

Must be Minerva's long lost cousin.

I...forgot the boss had a melee weapon.

Don't let this distract you from the fact that Ike still has only 8 strength.

...That's Ike's real dad, isn't it?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Edelguardiansing

[Shrimpica]

3 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

RD was foreshadowed here all along

Edited November 27, 2022 by Imperator Squilla

[Acacia Sgt]

6 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

"I only asked what time it was!"

Quote

See the problem with Soren being the racist one is that I can't also imagine him saying stuff like this and genuinely believing it.

You still have a long road to go.

Quote

When you are used to privilege, equality can feel like oppression.

Equity > Equality

Quote

And here I thought Awakening was the first game to give Anna a personality.

She always had a little, whenever she did showed up for anything other than the Save-Quit skit.

Quote

...That's Ike's real dad, isn't it?

Hey now, maybe it's Hector's diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiistant cousin.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Sooks]

13 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

 

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I mean, I consider medieval to be above every regular scenario. I love the tragedies, the thin veneer of hope that leads to the plot twist, the way it brings the entire game together, Streibough's mad rant, Streibough's voice actor, overthinking Streibough's motivations based on the things he says in said mad rant, the implication derived from this that Oersted wasn't the generic perfect hero he was set up to be, his own mad rant at the end, how he breaks the stereotypical protagonist silence to deliver it, Fugue for the Lord of Dark blasting at the end as the credits roll over Odio's rebirth...

I love it. I love it to pieces. I went into Live a Live all those years ago having it spoiled and it still gave me chills. And now I did it again for the remake, and it gave me the chills all over again because of how incredible the presentation was this time around.

...But, then, I don't know how much of this could be nostalgia. Few times have I had my nostalgia appealed to on this level. I suppose I'm not an unbiased judge, in this case.

Besides, worse comes to worst, I've not ran out of RPGs yet. I can still try to rope you into playing Exit Fate. Still the biggest surprise of the year.

 

Spoiler

I mean, does it really bring all the stories together? All it has is a bunch of statues of the stories’ bosses and him saying Odio at the end, which sounds like every other boss’ name too.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the entire chapter was boring or anything. I did think the ending was pretty cool, Streibough somewhat withstanding. But that’s the problem: pretty much everything you praise happens in the ending. Most everything that happens before then is dull and uninteresting (and that’s paired with pretty boring gameplay). And because of that even, the ending fell a little bit flat because I didn’t give a shit about Oersted, Streibough, or the princess. It was still cool though.

 

[Saint Rubenio]

15 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

There's the quote everyone loves.

15 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

See the problem with Soren being the racist one is that I can't also imagine him saying stuff like this and genuinely believing it.

...Oh dear. You didn't love it.

15 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Volke being tied with Titania as the second strongest unit in the group is extremely funny to me.

Who even is first? Who beats Titania?

16 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

And here I thought Awakening was the first game to give Anna a personality.

Teehee

Dang, the PoR tutorial is funny. I never knew.

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

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I mean, does it really bring all the stories together? All it has is a bunch of statues of the stories’ bosses and him saying Odio at the end, which sounds like every other boss’ name too.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the entire chapter was boring or anything. I did think the ending was pretty cool, Streibough somewhat withstanding. But that’s the problem: pretty much everything you praise happens in the ending. Most everything that happens before then is dull and uninteresting (and that’s paired with pretty boring gameplay). And because of that even, the ending fell a little bit flat because I didn’t give a shit about Oersted, Streibough, or the princess. It was still cool though.

 

 

Spoiler

...Yeah. Fair enough.

Now go and play the Oersted ending.

 

[Punished Dayni]

11 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Engage in the politics of your country folks, stuff not effecting you directly is no excuse not to participate, especially when such apathy is what lets harmful actions pass.

Where'd you think I was Saturday?

12 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

When you are used to privilege, equality can feel like oppression.

I have seen this sentence more than a few times this year.

Sure, much of it is about something closer to home, but still.

12 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Don't let this distract you from the fact that Ike still has only 8 strength.

Oh boy, that sucks. I hope that turns around quick.

@Sooks Should I just link to the page or so of exchanges me and Rubenio had over that chapter? There's a surprising amount of baggage to that chapter that I'll admit elevated it for me as well, though I don't think I really ranked the better chapters.

And yes, do that. Get it out of the way.

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

 

@Sooks Should I just link to the page or so of exchanges me and Rubenio had over that chapter? There's a surprising amount of baggage to that chapter that I'll admit elevated it for me as well, though I don't think I really ranked the better chapters.

Yes.

[GuardianSing]

17 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

"I only asked what time it was!"

I was also tempted to just post this meme under it

18 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Equity > Equality

Hey I agree with you, but to reach Equity we need to reach equality.

20 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Hey now, maybe it's Hector's diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiistant cousin.

I was about to joke about that too actually.

8 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...Oh dear. You didn't love it.

Actually I think it's the best passage I've read in this entire goddamn franchise, there's just something ironic about Soren being the one to say.

9 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Who even is first? Who beats Titania?

Mordacai with 15 strength.

7 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Oh boy, that sucks. I hope that turns around quick.

I know it's a meme that Azura haves a higher strength growth rate than Ike but this is just ridiculous!

[ping]

12 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Engage in the politics of your country folks, stuff not effecting you directly is no excuse not to participate, especially when such apathy is what lets harmful actions pass.

When you are used to privilege, equality can feel like oppression.

Wellll, we're meeting the peasantry here, so I'm not sure if "privilege" is the correct term here. The game portrays the common folks as callous, sprinking in some racism to make itself clear, but realistically - they don't have any way to engage in politics no matter who sits on the throne. They have no reason to assume that Ashnard will be a terrible oppressor, they don't have the privilege to ponder the fate of the "Crimean nation" instead of where the next meal is coming from. Why should they care that one blood aristocracy might be replaced by another blood aristocracy?

Why yes, I'm equating Ike with the liberal noble in 1789 or 1830 who is surprised that the peasantry doesn't feel particularly liberated now that 1.65% of the male population can vote on who out of 0.297% of the male population is allowed to draft a constitution

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Hey I agree with you, but to reach Equity we need to reach equality.

As in a first step? Maybe. Though I wonder. Perhaps it's best to seek what's fair, and not what's equal. Whenever the two don't overlap.

[Sooks]

Well, I’m following your guys’ advice and picking the character you told me to, just because “get it over with” makes it sound short and like something I can go back on. After this… I have no idea who to pick though, or even what this choice means.

Pogo for the memes let’s goooo

[Punished Dayni]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

Yes.

It's a trail of a dozen or so comments on this thread, should I link all of them or trust you can find them from the first?

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Well, I’m following your guys’ advice and picking the character you told me to, just because “get it over with” makes it sound short and like something I can go back on. After this… I have no idea who to pick though, or even what this choice means.

Pogo for the memes let’s goooo

You want the optimal gameplay choice from the others? (In spoilers of course)

Spoiler

It's Sundown. Trust me.

Pick Masaru if like me you want a rough start.

[Sooks]

…Okay, this chapter’s pretty cool. Live a Live spoilers

Spoiler

It’s selling me a lot more on the Middle Ages plot twist, and it looks like I’m gonna go back and get to the play all the other end of chapter boss fights, but as the bosses. That’s cool, and I don’t know what it means for our heroes.

The devs were both kind and cruel enough to put the statue of Akira’s boss right in the center, which means if you just went to the closest statue first you get to get it out if the way but you learn about the boss fight plot twist while getting a flashback to the dark times…

3 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

It's a trail of a dozen or so comments on this thread, should I link all of them or trust you can find them from the first?

Link the first, if you could, thank you.

3 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

You want the optimal gameplay choice from the others? (In spoilers of course)

Not necessarily the optimal gameplay choice but just to know what I’m actually picking and how much this choice will matter. Like it seems like I’m about to pick

Spoiler

the protagonist for the rest of the chapter, is that true? Because if so, it’s just a toss up between Yun and Masaru or Pogo for the memes.

 

3 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

  Reveal hidden contents

It's Sundown. Trust me.

Pick Masaru if like me you want a rough start.

Spoiler

Oho, one of the characters I wanted to pick gives me a tough time? Nice…

 

[ping]

48 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

I...forgot the boss had a melee weapon.

See, that wouldn't have happened if Volke had stolen the sword from him

Too bad about Kieran, he's pretty good. He has a horse and an axe, which everything you could want from a PoR unit.

[Saint Rubenio]

21 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Actually I think it's the best passage I've read in this entire goddamn franchise, there's just something ironic about Soren being the one to say.

Ah.

Well.

Neat.

21 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Mordacai with 15 strength.

Ah right, him.

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

…Okay, this chapter’s pretty cool. Live a Live spoilers

  Hide contents

It’s selling me a lot more on the Middle Ages plot twist, and it looks like I’m gonna go back and get to the play all the other end of chapter boss fights, but as the bosses. That’s cool, and I don’t know what it means for our heroes.

The devs were both kind and cruel enough to put the statue of Akira’s boss right in the center, which means if you just went to the closest statue first you get to get it out if the way but you learn about the boss fight plot twist while getting a flashback to the dark times…

 

Spoiler

I like how you praise the game for letting you beat Akira up faster.

Anyway, this right here. Best part of the game for me, bar none. Which... maybe says something about me, but I don't think it's anything to worry about.

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Not necessarily the optimal gameplay choice but just to know what I’m actually picking and how much this choice will matter. Like it seems like I’m about to pick

  Hide contents

the protagonist for the rest of the chapter, is that true? Because if so, it’s just a toss up between Yun and Masaru or Pogo for the memes.

 

Spoiler

The choice doesn't affect the chapter as a whole, just who you start as. Unless you pick Oersted, of course, then... well, shit happens.

 

[Sooks]

Getting to use Gatling Gun for myself is so, so, so satisfying. I can’t explain it.

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

 

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I like how you praise the game for letting you beat Akira up faster.

I DIDNT EVEN THINK ABOUT THAT

Nevermind, the devs are right about everything.

Quote

 

Anyway, this right here. Best part of the game for me, bar none. Which... maybe says something about me, but I don't think it's anything to worry about.

Spoiler

Inb4 Ruben’s real name is RubenODio

Quote

 

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The choice doesn't affect the chapter as a whole, just who you start as. Unless you pick Oersted, of course, then... well, shit happens.

 

Spoiler

So I won’t be stuck with whoever I pick the entire chapter?

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

All right.

Done.

That's an hour of my life I'm never getting back.

...Man, Funny Flying Man and Eligor are going to be a fucking blast, aren't they...

Level 1 Hard Mode (no NG+?) without ever taking damage during boss battles proving a little difficult?😏

 

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

Which does make Rune Factory 3 Special's decision to not have a female protagonist at all odd, since they are rebuilding the game from the ground up. Definitely gonna have points knocked off it by reviewers, cause it'd be like if Pokemon HeartGold and SoulSilver didn't have a female protagonist because Gold and Silver didn't.

I mean, Micah isn't exactly a physique overflowing with testosterone. 

I've already assumed that any +/- bulletpoints at the end of a review of RF3S will include this manifold criticism in the negative column.

Adding a female protagonist would run into a real shortage of bachelors. RF3 has 11 bachelorettes, and of the male townsfolk who could be dateable...

• Carlos
• Ondorus
• Zaid
• Rusk is mentally mature enough IIRC, physically he's a bit underage IMO. But they could try squeezing him in, couldn't be any worse than the iffy-so-I-hear Kiel I suppose.
• Gaius can't happen w/o deleting a specific scene. And if we delete it, Evelyn deserves to added to the bachelorettes.

So three options, maybe four. Thats ...not infeasible. Tides of Destiny had nine bachelorettes (minus Sonja) and three bachelors (minus Aden). Lopsided, but it's something.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Interdimensional Observer

[Punished Dayni]

19 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Spoiler

Enjoy.

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

  Reveal hidden contents

So I won’t be stuck with whoever I pick the entire chapter?

 

You will, but with 4 in the party you can work with anyone as your lead.

19 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Link the first, if you could, thank you.

I could see getting lost looking for them, I lost track once or twice, this was over several pages after all. Thankfully, little of it spoils the ending segment, but that could also be concerning because this is where we pop off on this chapter.

I'll link to the first here, but just in case I'll link all the relevant parts in this spoiler here:

Spoiler

Rubenio starts off with this after I reach the end of Oersted's chapter:

Spoiler

Streibough's voice acting is brilliant. And while I know it's a rather divisive choice, I loved the Ye Olde English in this chapter.

Also, I love the nuance added in the remake. Streibough claims he had "begged" Oersted "for love" and Oersted ignored him due to his greedy and competitive nature. Alethea claims she put her faith in Oersted "for Father", but that Streibough still loved him despite that. It seems to imply the two of them were already lovers before the king wagered her hand on a tournament. Streibough asked his friend to let him have this, and Oersted refused because he wanted to have his glory and his princess.

And then, Oersted proceeds to pretty much confirm this with his "did I not serve and seek my fair and just reward?" line. All in all, the remake situation is a bit more gray, which lends itself better to the twist. Not that it needed more, I mean, just the fact that the generic silent JRPG protagonist turns out to be the main villain of mankind is amazing enough. But I like the little details here.

Of course, this doesn't change the fact that Streibough is a manipulative piece of shit with a massive inferiority complex. If anyone is absolved somewhat by this, it's Alethea. Girl was stuck between two assholes, just one of them was better at hiding it. She definitely didn't handle herself with much grace either, but... Sheesh, her options weren't exactly stellar.

I respond with a full on essay discussing the entire chapter:

Spoiler

There is a LOT to unpack with the scenario to my mind. I want to look at each narrative character: Streibough, Alathea, Lucrece (well, the people at least) and then Oersted, as the more morally complex of the bunch here (Poor Hasshe and Uranus, too good for this land).

When I first heard Streibough give his speech, my mind shot to incel. Yeah I know, harsh. But let's back up a bit. He definitely feels a bitterness about losing that couldn't have been put to written dialogue alone, but he covers that decently enough that he then can swagger up to Oersted and say that they should be enough to slay any angels or demons. He's knowledgeable enough to know about the shields by looking at them, thus giving the in to speak to Uranus and then Hasshe. If we assume he's coming at the quest genuinely with no ill intent (which I can believe, though he probably has some understandable resentment for Oersted for always playing second fiddle to some knight who is suggested (by him I caveat) as being a man of violence and little else), he does have the tools to do so without Oersted. Then we reach the fake Lord of Dark, where Streibough responds to Hasshe's dying words by being focused on his own shit (which makes his calling Oersted out for not getting Hasshe out with them when they thought they were going to get caved in on (as he expressly says if they take him with them they'll die for sure) a bit rich), finds the secret door, fakes the cave in to pretend to die and then finds Alathea. For the rest of the chapter he's at the back with Alathea until Oersted finds him, but he does show Oersted visions and illusions to make Oersted commit regicide and see Alathea tormented (true or not). He also speaks before each of the bosses, wanting to see Oersted emmiserated before he strikes the killing blow.

And then Oersted reaches the peak. Streibough had found the secret, but he used it as an opportunity to get one over Oersted and win Alathea's love for himself. He revels in how much he got away with scaring off Oersted and leaving Hasshe behind. Then confesses to the deception leading to the king's death and is frustrated by Oersted coming to stop his dream. He goes out of his way to call Oersted a beast here driven only to triumph and victory over all. He says that be begged in the name of love, (but it's not expressly shown he did this, but he said he'd hold nothing back during the tourney and that he wouldn't yield this. He asks the gods for the strength to get glory deserved, not something more akin to him suggesting his love for Alathea, though if we go that route he does seem certain he couldn't ask Oersted to do so with the ending dialogue in mind). He then gets into calling Oersted a lustful wretch (which I'd say is a slight stretch considering Oersted doesn't particularly show emotion, especially not that up to then) and someone who never loved, lost or felt shame, which I'd say he's saying as him insisting he's better than Oersted because he felt all this pain and hurt. At this stage is when he insists Oersted'll repay his loyalty by dying..... only for Oersted to kill him instead, one last greedy victory when Oersted could've just let hi win. I'm assuming he was dead by the time Alathea came out too, never getting to say farewell to his love after Oersted did him in. Course, I'm taking the interpretation of Streibough not being in a reciprocated relationship with Alathea before events play out. This does make him less sympathetic in this argument.

Alathea meanwhile, yeah look at what she's left with. Pushed into marriage of someone who won a contest of strength, she almost immediately sounds like she's only doing this for king and country (she doesn't exactly speak of Oersted in romantic terms), though trying to make the best of the situation and trying to be close to Oersted. Then she gets whisked away by the fake Lord of Dark to be locked up right at the end of it. After this, she's then kept a hostage all the way to the end, tormented by the Lord of Dark, which is what Oersted sees but for all we know could be entirely an illusion considering it wouldn't be the first time. Now Streibough could have been doing both, playing Odio to scare her and then being there for Alathea as he pretends to be stuck under his service and thus not being able to get her away from there. He could have been saying it was safer to stay there than risk Oersted breaking up what happiness they have left, especially after Oersted kills the king. But I'm throwing myself off talking about Alathea herself. She does seem to me like she's trying to make the relationship work in the opening. Then Oersted returns and kills Streibough in front of her. She immediately asks him not to touch Streibough (bit late sadly), asks why it took him so long to show up and how she had trusted him for the King's sake only for all this to happen. She recognises Streibough did wrong while also acknowledging his love for her. She then goes and talks about Streibough had been left suffer, second fiddle to Oersted and I feel like she may have been hearing a fair few talking points from Streibough. But the says Oersted's victories were hard won by better men and I agree with this line as a kinda Oersted apologist before I started this. Because it was more than Streibough who was sacrificed and we have seen that in Hasshe and Uranus, even if the former could have been buried better but for one asshole and the latter tried to redeem a man doomed to fall. Back to the speech, she truly resents Oersted for having been like this and being insistent on being the superior one in the room. She comes out and says she won't betray her love for Streibough, which yeah that says a ton about how this marriage went. Then, because she has noone left to trust as Oersted's killed them she decides better to die than be killed inside. Oersted runs to stop her and of course fails, his prize taken by it's own hand. But yeah, prize.

I mean, she was essentially made into a prize by her father. The King does this first thing in the story to have a son-in-law who is strong for the future of Lucrece, then when she's kidnapped proceeds to insist that Hasshe needs to be found to defeat him, but Oersted then offers to do it in Hasshe's stead and the King seems to genuinely want to see him succeed. From there we see a people wanting to see the Lord of Dark slain, cheering Oersted and then we hear Uranus speak of how their story ended (with Hasshe truly sick of them and Uranus tired but wanting to see Hasshe happier) and how they kept asking for their aid. Hasshe was still a hero to the end, dying for the cause after fighting the fake, Uranus noble and true still. But the King upon hearing of Streibough and Hasshe's deaths asks where the fiend who took his child is. Which, understandable. Then Oersted's tricked into killing the king and the people look on him as the Lord of Dark (which, I'll be honest this stretch of the chapter's the weakest. He can commit regicide without being a demon y'know). Suddenly they make him out to be the monster and act like all the dots connect, that Oersted did it all and they cast him out (which, yeah. Maybe they should have kept him). They torture Uranus to near death to get information. Uranus asks Oersted to show a better nature and avoid committing violence against them, but the guards will take him captive eventually (either at Archon's Roost or by turning himself in at Lucrece, which again, weird for the lord of Dark to be doing). Then when Uranus dies freeing Oersted from his cell, he also calls on Oersted to find Alathea to seek redemption. And of course he gets blamed for that one too. Once Oersted takes the mantle of Odio, the people see true misery for the crimes of a king.

Oersted meanwhile, I'll admit that I may have given him too much leeway in that line you mention on first listen. Knowing that he had been told to find Alathea and try to seek his innocence only to double down on his guilt, kill his oldest friend and see the woman he was married to kill herself rather than be with him it's not like he's had a good day. Outside his willingly taking a woman as his bride as prize for a tournament (Which Streibogh very much is fine with taking part in, even if he was in a relationship with her beforehand which I suspect if he was there could have been more done to prevent things getting to this state), we don't get much in Oersted's worst nature (considering he turns himself into the guards after his crime when they let him go, never mind that the murder was committed using manipulation) up to the end where Streibough and Alathea deliver a haymaker. At that stage he's had Hasshe and Uranus tell him to be better against a kingdom hunting for him, a king who he wouldn't have killed outside of the deception and his wife and best friend dead in front of him after the friend had led a campaign of deception and his wife said she had fallen out of love knowing his behaviour and that the two had bonded with this knowledge. Some just reward for his service eh? He feels he has been shortchanged and in the limited scope of having been told he was to marry into the royal family and seek out the Lord of Dark he had certainly tried to achieve these tasks. That he had fought as he seemed to have been raised into and all it got him was isolation and condemnation.  He then accepts that he is a demon, if people cast him out and want naught to do with him why not I suppose. A monster of circumstance it could be argued, but he runs with it considering he aids the other Odio forms to seek their desires.

Though I could be giving him too much credit for his pain. Oersted being confirmed to not be a mute before the final speech but someone who doesn't seem to emote much outside battle (the battle quotes seem like he feels he has the upper hand, aside for "For Lucrece") is certainly a character who could be considered a concern, on top of his minimal emoting before the end too (if he's sociopathic for instance). And of course the first event of this story, the tourney and subsequent marrying off of a woman to satisfy the king he has no qualms about. Maybe that suggests a malaise of this part of the timeline, but in the grand scheme of things he ends up proceeding to say that all of time deserves to suffer.

There's a further question I have in all this. Where is Odio in all this? Hasshe was said to have killed him 20 years before, but someone had to have given the order to the fake to carry off Alathea despite his not being there when they arrived. And there's many guesses that can be made, but there's two I want to put out there. The first is the idea that Oersted was in some manner made into Odio's new vessel. Now, he is young enough that it could have been he was born after Hasshe killed the Lord of Dark (Hasshe does call him boy), grew up to become Oersted and then Odio after all this had occurred. Now, as you can tell that's pretty anticlimactic to the whole thing right? The second and the one I'd believe is that the energies and power of Odio are tied to Archon's Roost for someone of sufficient malice to take for their own. It explains how Streibough was able to use the power (and Megalovania playing in their final bout), as well as suggests maybe the purple lights I mentioned earlier were guiding them to Odio on purpose. Where it could arguably fall short is that Streibough was clearly not that powerful if Oersted could still defeat him singlehandedly, but then again Streibough was using the power to fulfill his own fantasies while Oersted intended to really deliver on the destruction of humanity, though how much Oersted himself wants that is up for debate with his ending which of course has him wallowing alone having finished the job but clearly being dissatisfied.

Another tidbit before I come cutting at my argument with your point of Streibough and Alathea: the story itself seems to say that by hero's hand must fall the Lord of Dark after describing Hasshe. That seems to suggest that Hasshe was the only one who could have stopped the Lord of Dark if her got to the final peak. It seems like he didn't last time either. That seems in a way to unintentionally doom the rest of them considering his fate and how he'd ostracised himself from a world that saw him as of use for as long as possible before he faked his death.

Your point about Streibough and Alathea being in a relationship beforehand and this being why Streibough was so determined to win at the start. Thing is if they weren't in a relationship and Streibough was trying to win Alathea for his own beforehand this story still holds. Regardless of if he pretended to be the Lord of Dark and her only friend in the Archon's Roost or if he was just showing that to deceive Oersted and he was fully honest with Alathea, she has been given this perspective that changes her opinion of Oersted to be the person who just takes for himself and had no awareness of others around him. The reason why I bring this up is that it matters to their relationship. He could have been manipulating the situation regardless, but pretending to be her jailer and confidant in her isolation is pretty shit on it's own, whereas if he was just pretending she was in danger he seemingly wanted Oersted to see that he had lost her and fall to despair before Streibough finished him off (judging by the boss dialogues)

TLDR: Medieval period has no true hero in the end.

Rubenio then responds (There's a bit of comparing to the other protags here, but nothing that'll spoil the ending:

Spoiler

No yeah, you're right. Streibough is an incel shithead. Whether his feelings for Alethea were real and even mutual, it doesn't really matter. He was still a douchebag.

I agree that he's right, however, when he says Oersted's victories were won by better men. This is even reflected in the gameplay. Hasshe is the strongest party member, and he's likely the one doing the most work in the fake Lord of Dark confrontation.

Alethea was clearly manipulated by Streibough. Unlike in the original, however, she reacts a lot more realistically to her forced marriage to Oersted. Not only are her lines quite impersonal, as you pointed out with the "for king and country" line, but for over half of the balcony scene she's looking away. Clearly she's not thrilled, but marriage as a tool was common in this time. The king obviously just wanted a second Hasshe, and paid for it with his daughter's hand. As you said, she wants to make it work. But then, disaster strikes.

I forgot to bring up his battle quotes. It's a fair point - he sounds downright smug. Between this, his silence and the "fair and just reward" line, it lends some credence to Streibough's claim that he was a competitive, violent jerk.

Interesting that you say the people's turn on Oersted was the weakest part of the chapter. I'll admit it was pretty sudden, but I think it fits. These are middle age folks, they're highly superstitious. The Lord of Dark had returned and kidnapped their princess just days ago... And she was alone with Oersted when it happened. They'd just lost the greatest hero they've ever known... And he was last seen heading off to the Lord of Dark's hideout with Oersted. And now he's found, bloodied sword in hand, standing before the corpse of the king. Again, right after he's returned from the Archon's Roost with half his party wiped out. It's not that unreasonable to believe they would've believed him to be the demon, all these things considered. But the game goes a bit too fast here, that I'll admit.

Also, the way they instantly turned on Uranus as well is rather suspect. But then, Hasshe clearly stole all the fame and glory for himself (to his great chagrin), leaving Uranus to be remembered as "that one priest that helped Hasshe a bit." And people being forgetful and ungrateful suits this story perfectly. Watching Uranus be betrayed so easily was another dickmove for the pile of dickmoves that drove Oersted mad.

Odio prior to Hasshe's death is left up to interpretation. Personally, I like to believe there was no Odio at all. After Hasshe and Uranus's victory, his minions scattered and were left to roam the abandoned Archon's Roost. One of these wandered off and, perhaps guided by some sort of instinct instilled in it by Odio when it was created, found the princess of Lucrece and took her away. Just as Hasshe said, the fake Odio was nothing more than a pawn, perhaps one that could take different forms and tried to live up to its master's legacy - this magic exists in this world, as Streibough handily proves. This would explain why it's so weak. Then Hasshe dies, Streibough comes up with his plan, and becomes the Lord of Dark himself... Until Oersted steals the demonic influence from him, alongside his life.

Still, this is just one possible interpretation. Some think Streibough or even both Strei and Alethea planned everything from the start, but I don't think that's as likely, their dialogue later on makes little sense going by this theory. Others think Odio was the really weak guy that Hasshe claimed couldn't possibly be Odio, and that the next Odio after the one Hasshe killed simply happened to be a weak person. Some believe Odio was just chilling by the statue with Alethea, and Streibough solo'd him offscreen. In the end, we'll never know for sure.

You make a fair point regarding my theory. It really doesn't change much. Ultimately, I think the true dealbreaker was Hasshe's death. Hasshe was the true hero of the story, all along. He even had his own protagonist arc. Had he lived, he would've been able to corroborate Oersted's story, and the people would've been less reluctant to turn on him. Even if he was demonized alongside Uranus and Oersted, he was stronger than Oersted. He probably would've been able to save Uranus and get all three of them out of the palace safely. And then, the two heroes of old would've been able to back Oersted up, keep him from straying to the path of dark when his day turns from bad to worse... Or take him down, should he still fall to the dark influence. Alas, he had to go where Arran is...

I love this, because just like the rest of the chapter, it's a great deconstruction of the oldest JRPG tropes in the book, the middle age fantasy setting. As I said while I was playing the game, Hasshe and Uranus are clearly set as a parallel to Oersted and Streibough. The jaded, weary heroes of old, making way for a new generation of paragons of justice and good. A tale as old as time itself.

Except, that's not at all what they are. Hasshe and Uranus may've turned jaded and weary, but ultimately, they were far greater people that were less quick to give up on everything. Heck, Hasshe seemed to have enough hatred in him to possibly have turned into the Lord of Dark himself... but he didn't. He turned himself into a hermit, but he didn't succumb to the darkness. And Uranus even kept some traces of hope in his heart all these years later. Meanwhile, Streibough is a manipulative asshole and Oersted is a violent dickhead. Both of them were selfish and hateful. Both of them allowed themselves to turn into the Lord of Dark. The heroes of old made way to the wrong people. And the entire realm paid the price.

...Honestly though, I realize that, while you may be a bit too lenient on Oersted, I'm probably too strict. The man may've not been perfect, but the amount of suffering and betrayal he underwent in such a short time is just... nobody should suffer like that. Still, he failed to resist the temptation in the end. He took all of his hatred, all of his anger, and let them burn him to ashes. There is an interesting comparison to be made between Oersted and the seven protagonists of the game. Almost all of them suffer great losses as well. Akira loses his parents, his best friend and has to watch his sister struggle with a severe sickness he can do nothing about. Pogo is casted out of his tribe and eventually loses Beru as well. The Earthen Heart heir watches the Shifu die in front of them. Masaru has to hear that he led a crazed murderer to the people he had looked up to and learned from.

But perhaps the most direct and interesting comparison, Sundown lost absolutely everything - not unlike Oersted - before his story even starts. In fact... So did O. Dio. And each of them takes a path. Sundown takes the path of Hasshe, turning himself into a pariah and waiting for death to embrace him, only coming out of his rut years later to do "something good and decent" for once, because he's a genuinelly good person. And O. Dio let his hatred consume him and used his power for evil, just like Oersted. In the end, Oersted embodies what any of the protagonists could've turned into, had they not been as emotionally strong as they were.

tl;dr: I love this game. It gets me rambling, which is always a good sign.

I come back with another piece:

Spoiler

Streibough may have been right, though if they had taken Hasshe's words and deeds as a learning opportunity and they had worked together to save Alathea... well the events we saw mightn't have happened. But this wasn't a story of people overcoming their difficulties and insecurities for the better of everyone, that's the game's actual final chapter.

Alathea meanwhile is a character whose circumstances ensured she would be in a no-win scenario whoever won the final fight because from the first the two were at odds and the stakes involved other's lives, hers included. Maybe Oersted could have been someone who let others matter and even been better about these circumstances and called them out, but that was not his wont.

The quotes were something that helped me see the point that Oersted's competitive nature and that battle, victory and glory is the thing that drives him, where he finds value. Which is something that I'd say none of the other protagonists see as their primary aim, barring Masaru who takes a different tack and wants to be someone who learns from his foes and doesn't see them as bugs to squash underfoot.

I said the sequence after Oersted kills the king was the weakest part for a few reasons. It's being sudden is one thing, but in the immediate fallout of the king's death the minister and nearby guards jump right to Demon King as the first and only assumption, then end up handling Oersted by not arresting him after some of them have Uranus caught and he tells Oersted to run. So he does and the rest of the guards only spread the word, where people then shut their doors to Oersted and when he gets to the outer gate the last guards throw him out. The person they're accusing of being the Lord of Dark and kingslayer. That's how they respond to that? No wonder the king looked for a son in law when his guards can't arrest his murderer when they have him!

Ahem. So the game then expects you to bring Oersted to the house with the fanboy without any suggestion to run to Familia specifically. I'm pretty sure you don't get a hint in the minimap for this either. Oersted running around killing guards is fine I suppose, but I may have wanted this bit to be longer (then again it's from a remake of a 1994 game that they're pretty faithful to the story structure of), get a further sense of the damage this has caused him beyond the castle. After that, the game asks you to either turn yourself in or go to the Archon's roost and turn around immediately because you won't be able to climb up yet. This is also a bit of a weakness imo, a bit of slow pacing that can end up with the player lost too. Then you get Uranus pleading for Oersted to be better but there's pretty much no chance as he doubles down on killing as he flees and Streibough will not be so open to discussion.

So aside from why this bit is a bit lesser to me, your point about him being suspected does add up and make sense still. But it's a shame that the execution of this hews much closer to the original versus the amazing ending bit of this chapter. Uranus being guilty by association does make sense though, considering how did he survive when Hasshe didn't and defended the kingslayer.

I do lean towards whatever Odio was in that period was gone, slain by Hasshe, but the malevolence it brings was still there, resting at the very pinnacle. That it was this power Fake Odio and Streibough had come to grasp at but not fully seizing before Oersted took the reins wholeheartedly.

Hasshe, the hero soured by his duty being taken for granted, only for him to take it more to heart when he dons his armour again. Him and Uranus a duo who were genuine in trying to protect the people and stop the Lord of Dark. The dark reflections that Oersted and Streibough in their mirroring of the heroes of yore end up twisting the world they were thought to be protecting. It's sad that Hasshe was technically right, in that there were such bad people that he didn't want to be protecting. But they didn't quite know the scope of the trouble Lucrece would be in when they were the only champions left, much as they tried to ask them to be better.

Oersted and Streibough went through hardships and facing them they chose to force the world to their whims, to give them the endings they wanted. How unlike the protagonists indeed as you go into.

You know what I like? For all that we might empathise with one more than the other, we agree that Oersted and Streibough were still wrong to act as they did in the end. Their actions made a bad situation into a tragedy and potential doom of the world but for the intervention of better people who took the actions necessary.

Rubenio comes back with a smaller bit:

Spoiler

Yes, you said it best in the first paragraph. There's a lot of things that could've been, but ultimately, the reason the story ended the way it did is because neither Streibough nor Oersted were good people. Oersted, and perhaps even Streibough were wronged, but so was everyone else. They were the ones who decided to take revenge rather than rise above their hardships. It's what sets them apart from the rest of the main cast.

You bring up an interesting point about Masaru. I struggle to imagine he thinks of them as "foes" at all, even. He wants to be the strongest warrior, but not out of love for violence, but rather the martial arts themselves. The former is Odie O'bright. And... perhaps Oersted, as well.

Yeah, I'll admit you make good points about the exile sequence. At no point did it occur to them that this supposed "Lord of Dark" seemed a bit too sheepish, merely escaping while he was supposed to have enough power to destroy all of them and enough evil to want to do it? But still, I guess it could be chalked up to them panicking. He did just kill the king for seemingly no reason.

I actually never knew you could go to the Archon's Roost and get arrested there. I always just went to Lucrece whenever I wanted to end the sequence. I'll admit it's a bit of a clunky segment. Could've done with a bit of an extension - at least force the player to go to the kid, that's a great moment that is completely missable.

I agree with everything you said in the final three paragraphs. It really is such a unique little tale. It turns every convention of the most generic JRPG setting imaginable on its head, and that's exactly what makes it so great.

From here, I end up mentioning something in the ending chapter and these next 4 comments in the chain don't add much at all to this chapter's discussion, so I think I can leave it there.

19 minutes ago, Sooks said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Oho, one of the characters I wanted to pick gives me a tough time? Nice…

 

Spoiler

It's because of how his campaign works, he starts at a low level. He is playable even on his own, but the way the game is designed he'll want the others with him and his being picked doesn't give you an easy out for one of the others.

But you do you overall, I just feel like I should let you know early Masaru experience.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Punished Dayni

[Sooks]

I’m confused and leaving this section with more questions than answers, but it was cool, at least.

[Punished Dayni]

Just now, Sooks said:

I’m confused and leaving this section with more questions than answers, but it was cool, at least.

Spoiler

Did you do an Armageddon?

[Acacia Sgt]

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I mean, Micah isn't exactly a physique overflowing with testosterone. 

I've already assumed that any +/- bulletpoints at the end of a review of RF3S will include this manifold criticism in the negative column.

Adding a female protagonist would run into a real shortage of bachelors. RF3 has 11 bachelorettes, and of the male townsfolk who could be dateable...

• Carlos
• Ondorus
• Zaid
• Rusk is mentally mature enough IIRC, physically he's a bit underage IMO. But they could try squeezing him in, couldn't be any worse than the iffy-so-I-hear Kiel I suppose.
• Gaius can't happen w/o deleting a specific scene. And if we delete it, Evelyn deserves to added to the bachelorettes.

So three options, maybe four. Thats ...not infeasible. Tides of Destiny had nine bachelorettes (minus Sonja) and three bachelors (minus Aden). Lopsided, but it's something.

Honestly, that's something that should be left to future games, which is what RF5 began to do. It should just be accepted it wasn't a thing since Day 1, and unless it was something truly bad, don't ruin yourself from enjoying the game because of it.