What should a Binding Blade remake do with Merlinus?

[Silent Mercenary]

The remake base discussion got me thinking how Merlinus may be better off mostly replaced, and left to occasional info drops relevant to his travels or base conversations if they add those. He isn't a good foil to Roy as some of the tacticians like August to Leif and Soren to Ike are, who have more to add with their distinct personalities and morals. What they could do to salvage him is make him and another character be part of a commenting/quarreling duo like Gray/Tobin and Mae/Boey are in SoV.

I would prefer if he were replaced with an upgrade of Lilina and Marcus as retreating characters that intervene more in the story. I also would like it if he was removed as a deployable unit and Roy obtained the Convoy option. That would remove the bait option he adds in some maps, but it would free up a slot in maps where you plan to buy a lot. The FE7-like slot is the option I think they'll go for even if they are overly faithful (I imagine it would still be the moving convoy in this case).

I am including a fighting option which would be funny. He could be able to counter like staves/laguz in Radiant Dawn, maybe using a random low-use weapon from the convoy and throwing them like a dagger.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Silent Mercenary

[PyroPlazma]

Wouldn't mind seeing other characters getting some more spotlight. But binding blade is also over-saturated with characters so that's a bit tricky. Would like the FE8 style convoy with it being tied to lords, but I also understand that's kinda busted. My only issue with the FE7 model is flanking reinforcements can screw Merlinus. 

[German FE Nino]

A lot of characters should have more relevance in the case that they survive battle. I know that it might oversaturate the plot if all if-checks return true(aka. nobody dies), but it really would elevate the game a bunch. In the case of merlinus, I just voted to make him more relevant. The heck is his relevancy in the original? Setting up the plottwist of zephiel being a tragic villain-type of character? He kinda has little meaning for the high amount of lines he has and that should be fixed. And well, to make him like FE7 in Gameplay, you know. Because the way he works in the original is kinda bad.

[Silent Mercenary]

Something I realized a while after making this thread is that most FE6 maps have a spot that could be saved for Merlinus and it would maintain the pattern or symmetry they were going for with the deployment slots, with a notable exception of the first one with battle preparations, chapter 6, but they could add/remove a deployment slot to maintain symmetry if they wanted. This makes me lean more into liking the FE7-like deployment slot option.

Another thing I remembered is that in recent FEs, noticeably FE3H, characters cameo in supports that aren't theirs. Merlinus could get support inclusion this way, while not needing supports himself. He could be developed to offer more of his opinion and reactions to events that affect his position as a merchant, while giving the lines that are best left to a close aide/tactician to other characters.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Silent Mercenary

[PyroPlazma]

I forgot to mention this in my original post, but I'd love for them to cannonize the manga characters. Especially Al would give other important characters for Roy to interact with and most of Merlinus lines could be given to them instead. 

[German FE Nino]

13 hours ago, PyroPlazma said:

but I'd love for them to cannonize the manga characters

They are canon tho. Just that their adventure happened prior to the events of FE6 instead of intertwining with it like in the manga(which was based on a betascript anyways). I would much prefer there to be a prequelcampaign that focusses on that instead of just retconning that potential tale out of existance.

Edited May 22, 2020 by German FE Nino

[PyroPlazma]

1 hour ago, German FE Nino said:

They are canon tho. Just that their adventure happened prior to the events of FE6 instead of intertwining with it like in the manga(which was based on a betascript anyways). I would much prefer there to be a prequelcampaign that focusses on that instead of just retconning that potential tale out of existance.

Whoops forgot about that. I meant to say use the Manga style of events which is pretty close to FE6 itself just including the extra characters (it's been years since I read it) 

I don't how a FE6 prequel would work, cause isn't that literally just FE7 by every regard? 

[German FE Nino]

1 hour ago, PyroPlazma said:

I don't how a FE6 prequel would work, cause isn't that literally just FE7 by every regard?

FE7 happens 20 years before FE6 and follows events that were not considered until late into FE6s development while Als adventure would have taken place somewhen in those 20 years, most likely a few months before FE6. These two have nothing in common except for being prequels to FE6 by taking place beforehand. Als journey actually has better synergy with FE6 than FE7 does in theory, as it is about the same threat(Bern).

[Baron the Shining Blade]

8 hours ago, German FE Nino said:

They are canon tho. Just that their adventure happened prior to the events of FE6 instead of intertwining with it like in the manga(which was based on a betascript anyways). I would much prefer there to be a prequelcampaign that focusses on that instead of just retconning that potential tale out of existance.

 

7 hours ago, PyroPlazma said:

Whoops forgot about that. I meant to say use the Manga style of events which is pretty close to FE6 itself just including the extra characters (it's been years since I read it) 

I don't how a FE6 prequel would work, cause isn't that literally just FE7 by every regard? 

 

5 hours ago, German FE Nino said:

FE7 happens 20 years before FE6 and follows events that were not considered until late into FE6s development while Als adventure would have taken place somewhen in those 20 years, most likely a few months before FE6. These two have nothing in common except for being prequels to FE6 by taking place beforehand. Als journey actually has better synergy with FE6 than FE7 does in theory, as it is about the same threat(Bern).

First off, the term we're looking for here is "midquel", as it takes place between FE6 and 7 (like how Thracia 776 takes place between a few chapters of Genealogy; that too is a midquel)

Secondly, I think it would be better if Al's story were done as a Hector Mode of sorts. This way you can have the manga characters and their intertwining story without retconning the original or hogging all of Roy's spotlight the first time through. R.I.P. Lilina Mode And after clearing Al Mode, you could use the manga characters in Roy Mode with zero bearing on the story, kind of like the Ashen Wolves.

...So long as Merlinus at least levels up by chapter survival like in FE7. Because I highly doubt anyone has ever legitimately made him survive 2000 battles just to max his level.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Baron the Shining Blade

[SullyMcGully]

I'd want Merlinus handled the way he was in FE7, not taking up a deployment slot and leveling up every chapter. Giving him supports would be cool simply because it would add a level of strategy to how you use him on the map - you could position him close to compatible units for support bonuses. I appreciate the extra tactical consideration that goes into keeping him out of harm's way. It doesn't strike me as annoying and certainly feels more realistic than the supply train only existing in the form of the main lord's "convoy."

 I do think he's quite a boring character though, and would love to see his position as "Roy's advisor" supplanted by other characters. 

[Finian]

On 5/20/2020 at 9:40 PM, Silent Mercenary said:

I also would like it if he was removed as a deployable unit and Roy obtained the Convoy option. That would remove the bait option he adds in some maps, but it would free up a slot in maps where you plan to buy a lot.

You don't need to deploy Merlinus to send items that don't fit in your inventory to the convoy. You only need to deploy him to access the convoy during battles.

[Silent Mercenary]

1 hour ago, Finian said:

You don't need to deploy Merlinus to send items that don't fit in your inventory to the convoy. You only need to deploy him to access the convoy during battles.

You're right. I mixed it up since I haven't played FE6 in a long time, and I like to check back how much I got of something and access it for extra healing items. The Roy convoy and FE7 option both get rid of the 1-slot sacrifice, but the latter maintains the bait potential.

5 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

I'd want Merlinus handled the way he was in FE7, not taking up a deployment slot and leveling up every chapter. Giving him supports would be cool simply because it would add a level of strategy to how you use him on the map - you could position him close to compatible units for support bonuses. I appreciate the extra tactical consideration that goes into keeping him out of harm's way. It doesn't strike me as annoying and certainly feels more realistic than the supply train only existing in the form of the main lord's "convoy."

I like the idea of him providing support bonuses, especially assuming he's mobile from the get-go. One of the issues with his FE7 supports was someone had to be left behind to benefit from them, and by the time he was on a horse, the maps start to get packed or rushed.

A side story with the Hasha no Tsurugi characters would be nice. I was thinking they could do it post-game, but I would not mind a Cindered Shadows or Hector Mode take on it. If they do add them, I think around release, Heroes would have a banner with Al, Tiena, Gant and Guinevere, the latter probably becoming available in the main game after defeating Zephiel.

[German FE Nino]

16 hours ago, Baron the Shining Blade said:

First off, the term we're looking for here is "midquel", as it takes place between FE6 and 7 (like how Thracia 776 takes place between a few chapters of Genealogy; that too is a midquel)

The Definition for "midquel" I found online is that it happens during the previous work instead of before or after it. So if they decide to go with the current canon instead of making it hectormode, it is by definition a prequel and not a midquel unlike thracia. I guess we should stop the discussion about mangacharacters on a Topic about merlinus tho.

[whase]

Am I the only one who likes the current Merlinus mechanic? And thinks his character and story importance is fine as it is?

I wouldn't oppose to him leveling per chapter and having a separate deploy space though, but also don't believe he needs it.

[PyroPlazma]

On 5/25/2020 at 7:07 AM, whase said:

Am I the only one who likes the current Merlinus mechanic? And thinks his character and story importance is fine as it is?

I wouldn't oppose to him leveling per chapter and having a separate deploy space though, but also don't believe he needs it.

I can't think of a single player who elects to take Merlinus over an actual fighting character....  

[ping]

58 minutes ago, PyroPlazma said:

I can't think of a single player who elects to take Merlinus over an actual fighting character....  

Dondon, iirc, to warp the warp staff. On Hard difficulty, you might have to field him once or twice if you want to go on a selling spree. You could make a point that he can be useful in the earlygame as an immortal bait to absorb a hit on EP.

[whase]

13 hours ago, PyroPlazma said:

I can't think of a single player who elects to take Merlinus over an actual fighting character....  

Well, nice to meet you, now you can. Most of the game I play with a maximum of 6 combat units (+Zealot/Marcus for rescue-drops, meatshielding and village-visiting) On most maps that leaves plenty of deploy slots for Merlinus.

The game gets so much easier if you give all experience to a core of 5 to 8 units. I get that this isn't everyone's preferred way of playing, but that's so great about this game, there's more than one way to play it, and at least one wherein Merlinus always has a deployment spot.

[joevar]

You know what? Make Merlinus the player/avatar character that you get to move around camp. that way you dont get to butt in Roy spotlight with half-assed, forced to believe, avatar char.
Imagine merlinus running around and giving some love-advice in the support talk to young men and women in Roy army, all the while managing inventory and provision
at least it will be hilarious that way (also that way the game didnt have to remove his importance-ness. just moving it to another place and time)

On 5/25/2020 at 7:07 PM, whase said:

Am I the only one who likes the current Merlinus mechanic? And thinks his character and story importance is fine as it is?

that would fall into unpopular opinion, i believe. Since we all are educated enough to know why he was like that in the game

 

[Samz707]

FE7 style deployment but make him a Duo with Marcus (Since they were both in FE7, are the only canon paired ending from FE7 and are still in FE6.), If Ninian being Roy's mother is a thing (either as the one canon or some save-carry over stuff with an FE7 Remake) then they'd basically know the entire time. (and I guess tell Roy at some point about it.)

I'd let more characters advise Roy but Merlinus would the one that talks the takes over if the person who'd speak is dead, (So he's the fall back basically now.) maybe downplay his "IT'STRAPDON'TTRUSTTHEMMASTERORY!" nature a bit.

Maybe Merlinus/Marcus could actually tell Roy about the Sol Katti as a kinda extra weapon as an nod to FE7 and where it was hidden.  (And I guess they wouldn't know where Durandal is? that is a odd bit I'm not sure what to do with.)

"Oh cool, this is a neat new sword, say where is it's sister sword?"-Roy

"uhhhhh...."-Merlinus

(Smash cut to Lyn's chared corpse in the plains, sword practically melted by war dragons.)

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Samz707

[ping]

25 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

downplay his "IT'STRAPDON'TTRUSTTHEMMASTERORY!" nature a bit.

Hey now, I don't think that's fair. Merlinus doesn't suspect a trap in that one chapter with the Shaman boss with the same name as some German composer. Bruckner, I think. Or Orff.

[joevar]

9 hours ago, Samz707 said:

"Oh cool, this is a neat new sword, say where is it's sister sword?"-Roy

"uhhhhh...."-Merlinus

(Smash cut to Lyn's chared corpse in the plains, sword practically melted by war dragons.)

same thing happen when Roy find Durandal and armads. Merlinus should mention its actually been used decade ago. Also gives the loyal dude some Convoy upgrade like class promotion XD

[AnonymousSpeed]

23 hours ago, joevar said:

You know what? Make Merlinus the player/avatar character that you get to move around camp. that way you dont get to butt in Roy spotlight with half-assed, forced to believe, avatar char.
Imagine merlinus running around and giving some love-advice in the support talk to young men and women in Roy army, all the while managing inventory and provision
at least it will be hilarious that way (also that way the game didnt have to remove his importance-ness. just moving it to another place and time)

I can't imagine Merlinus giving competent social advice, but controlling him as he bumbles around would be funny.

 

10 hours ago, ping said:

Hey now, I don't think that's fair. Merlinus doesn't suspect a trap in that one chapter with the Shaman boss with the same name as some German composer. Bruckner, I think. Or Orff.

Wagner. He should suspect a trap there, that's one change I'd make.

 

On 6/3/2020 at 2:59 PM, ping said:

Dondon, iirc, to warp the warp staff. On Hard difficulty, you might have to field him once or twice if you want to go on a selling spree. You could make a point that he can be useful in the earlygame as an immortal bait to absorb a hit on EP.

Dondon even uses Merlinus as bait in chapter 24.

[joevar]

21 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I can't imagine Merlinus giving competent social advice, but controlling him as he bumbles around would be funny.

competent at giving advice is not the point, since like i said he already busy managing the inventory and provision. But people like him who's old-loyal retainer usually is a good-listener, giving the "right" advice for people problem is different matter altogether. giving incorrect/misleading advice actually would make it funnier in the context of non-war discussion