Were there any rebellions during Arvis' rule?

[Icelerate]

Before Julius and the Loptyr sect took over and started the child hunts, were there people who rebelled against Arvis due to him taking over all of Granvale? 

[Punished Dayni]

I can't think of any explicit mention of conflicts that arose early in Arvis's reign, which when you consider much of the continent had been at war makes sense (Augustria, Verdane, Silesse and Issach had all been at war with Grannvale, while Thracia had been embroiled in its own conflict for sure when you consider Travant stops trying to invade after Grannvale takes the north) and Grannvale was considered the most powerful force on the continent especially having managed to outlast most of the nations I had mentioned already.

This absolutely doesn't mean there was no sedition or rebellion going on, just that early on there's a good chance next to nobody could have seriously tried. Milietos might have, but there's no indication they had much military strength to being with. Any possible rebel movements in the early years were either having to bide their time or got so nowhere we don't hear about them.

[omegaxis1]

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

Before Julius and the Loptyr sect took over and started the child hunts, were there people who rebelled against Arvis due to him taking over all of Granvale? 

In Kaga's notes, it's expressed that Azelle rebelled against Arvis, but because Arvis was seen as a good king, the people supported him and saw Azelle in the wrong. 

[Icelerate]

40 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

In Kaga's notes, it's expressed that Azelle rebelled against Arvis, but because Arvis was seen as a good king, the people supported him and saw Azelle in the wrong. 

If people saw Arvis in the right, it implies that they viewed Sigurd in the wrong. In which case, why did the people view Seliph, the son of Sigurd as in the right and only Ares showed some distrust of Seliph but it was quickly resolved? The obvious answer is that the Loptyr Empire was comically evil but it'd be more interesting if Seliph had a hard time securing support due to the stigma attached to his father. 

[omegaxis1]

51 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

If people saw Arvis in the right, it implies that they viewed Sigurd in the wrong. In which case, why did the people view Seliph, the son of Sigurd as in the right and only Ares showed some distrust of Seliph but it was quickly resolved? The obvious answer is that the Loptyr Empire was comically evil but it'd be more interesting if Seliph had a hard time securing support due to the stigma attached to his father. 

When the Loptr Church took over, Lewyn also used that to also spread the belief that Deirdre was already wed to Sigurd, and Seliph was the firstborn and rightful heir to the Kingdom, overall invalidating Arvis's claim and making the people hate him. They would believe this more because of the chaos that the Loptr Church created.

[Icelerate]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

When the Loptr Church took over, Lewyn also used that to also spread the belief that Deirdre was already wed to Sigurd, and Seliph was the firstborn and rightful heir to the Kingdom, overall invalidating Arvis's claim and making the people hate him. They would believe this more because of the chaos that the Loptr Church created.

Didn't know this. Was this stated in FE4 or FE5? 

[omegaxis1]

4 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Didn't know this. Was this stated in FE4 or FE5? 

I believe it was in FE4. 

During the period of oppression, people doubted Arvis and his rule, and there were rumors of Seliph, Sigurd's son, being the true heir.

[Icelerate]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

I believe it was in FE4. 

During the period of oppression, people doubted Arvis and his rule, and there were rumors of Seliph, Sigurd's son, being the true heir.

Would you say it is similar to Izuka spreading rumours that Pelleas was Ashnard's son although those were false and he had a different agenda. 

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

2 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Before Julius and the Loptyr sect took over and started the child hunts, were there people who rebelled against Arvis due to him taking over all of Granvale?

Lewyn, in one of his talks with Seliph, actually mentions that at the beginning people were more than happy to support Arvis as the new established emperor of Grannvale due to the end of all conflicts.

Travant tried to unify both southern and northern Thracia after Quan's death, but Blume pretty much snatched the northern area from him before he could do so. after that, since Travant didn't want any issues with the empire in order to avoid further suffering for his people, he kept a low profile while making agreements for an official alliance with Grannvale.

the only ones that probably kept rebelling against Grannvale were the people from Isaach, due to the previous conflict triggered by Langbalt and Reptor.

28 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

If people saw Arvis in the right, it implies that they viewed Sigurd in the wrong. In which case, why did the people view Seliph, the son of Sigurd as in the right and only Ares showed some distrust of Seliph but it was quickly resolved?

talking about "people" is quite generic.

only the population from Grannvale and the lords of Augustria were successfully tricked into believing that Sigurd was a traitor. those from Silesse and Thracia that fought side by side with Sigurd and supported him knew of his innocence, especially the people from Silesse since they got freed from the harsh rule of Lewyn's uncles.

as for Seliph being seen in the right from the start, it's probably because those who knew the truth didn't believe Arvis words after the first unification of Jugdral. plus, the child hunts that started all over the world once Julius was corrupted by Lopto didn't help either.

in Ares case, he did keep his distance from Seliph for a while after joining his army. however, after a talk with Nanna, a letter from Eldigan was finally given to him with everything explained about the previous conflict and the relation between Eldigan and Sigurd. therefore, all doubts that Ares had until that moment regarding Seliph were pretty much vanished.

56 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

The obvious answer is that the Loptyr Empire was comically evil but it'd be more interesting if Seliph had a hard time securing support due to the stigma attached to his father. 

not really a stigma, since he managed to help countless people in his journey across half Jugdral in order to restore his father's name along with his own.

besides, if the empire was indeed ruled by a bunch of oppressive tyrants, someone would eventually start to rebel soon or later, regardless of the child hunts.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

Would you say it is similar to Izuka spreading rumours that Pelleas was Ashnard's son although those were false and he had a different agenda. 

Yup. People were suffering and oppressed. They would cling to anyone that they could believe in and gobble it up. Especially people that are very much lacking in education. They'll believe anything they hear.

[Ertrick36]

Alvis had the people's love.  If anyone opposed him, it would strictly have been the few allies Sigurd had that managed to survive.  The young and foolish such as Azelle would've openly opposed him while the older and more tempered among his allies such as Adean would quietly conspire to mount a force of opposition to him.  There were still plenty of his surviving allies, however, that were so scarred by the events that they simply didn't have the will or ability to oppose Alvis, such as Sylvia.  And then there was Finn, who mostly was just constantly on the run with Leif and Nanna because Grannvale formed a temporary alliance with Thracia, which meant both Grannvale and Thracia were hunting down any and all remnants of the Leonster noble family.

People don't often revolt against powerful, influential regimes when those regimes conquer their lands.  And when they do, you get stuff like the story of Boudica of Iceni, who was beaten and her daughters raped for opposing Roman authority, which also resulted in the resistance forces getting absolutely stomped by Roman forces.  The power of an empire only crumbles when another force of great power comes to match them or when their leadership becomes so inefficient that the power diminishes.  Again, the Romans, as well as the Byzantines, serve as a perfect example.  Over the years they were either kicked around by powerful forces such as the Normans, the nomadic steppe nations that occasionally popped in to say hi, or the Ottomans, or they succumbed to political infighting.

The Loptyr Sect only ever managed to transfer leadership over to a vessel of Loptuos and causing the Empire to rule over all of Jugdral.  But Julius's leadership was a big farce - he lacked the charisma of Alvis, who himself didn't support the Child Hunts.  The Child Hunts were a core element in the Loptyr Empire plot, and as the Loptyr Cult itself is still just a small force in actuality, they had to employ the power of the Grannvale Imperial Army to conduct them.  If you played Thracia 776, you would've learned that there are plenty of people affiliated with Freege who oppose the Child Hunts in some form.  Blume himself resists the idea of participating in it, though doesn't condone it outright.  Ishtar worked in secret with Alvis to oppose the Child Hunts, and some of Freege's more minor notables such as Olwen or Amalda straight up joined the side of the enemy to oppose the Child Hunts.  Obviously the Child Hunts still happened, but the battle for control was already lost for the Loptyr Sect - it was lost the moment the Child Hunts began, when Ishtar pleaded for Julius to end them, because a divided response to something like this gives the opposition enough power to rebel outright.

59 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

If people saw Arvis in the right, it implies that they viewed Sigurd in the wrong. In which case, why did the people view Seliph, the son of Sigurd as in the right and only Ares showed some distrust of Seliph but it was quickly resolved? The obvious answer is that the Loptyr Empire was comically evil but it'd be more interesting if Seliph had a hard time securing support due to the stigma attached to his father. 

People already were sort of on the side of Seliph by the start of Genealogy, but they didn't have the will to oppose the Loptyr Sect until Seliph proved that it was possible for one to beat the Grannvale Empire.  And in order to prove it, he had to have led a rebellion in Isaac, which would've been much more difficult had Sigurd not spared Shannan.  You never hear about outright rebellions until Seliph defeats the occupation forces in Isaac.

[Acacia Sgt]

I'm pretty sure it's stated that Silesse kept a resistance movement going in Thove (aka the northernmost part of Jugdral and thus remote enough likely) after it got conquered. First headed by Rahna, then by Erynis. Nothing comes out of it until the game's final chapter, where they take the opportunity to wrestle the country back from Grannvale after Chalphy was liberated.

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'm pretty sure it's stated that Silesse kept a resistance movement going in Thove (aka the northernmost part of Jugdral and thus remote enough likely) after it got conquered. First headed by Rahna, then by Erynis.

Rahna was asked to stay neutral by Sigurd once he left to deal with Langbalt, because he did not want to involve Silesse into the conflict.

in FE5, the Magi group fighting Rydrick's rule was actually led by Ced, but that should have happened around the time Leif joined the Fiana's militia, under the lead of Eyvel.

before that, i think Ced wasn't fighting at all, because he was searching for Lewyn instead.

[Icelerate]

5 minutes ago, Fenreir said:

Lewyn, in one of his talks with Seliph, actually mentions that at the beginning people were more than happy to support Arvis as the new established emperor of Grannvale due to the end of all conflicts.

 

I remember that he was fairly popular but that doesn't mean everyone was happy which is why I asked. 

Quote

in Ares case, he did keep his distance from Seliph for a while after joining his army. however, after a talk with Nanna, a letter from Eldigan was finally given to him with everything explained about the previous conflict and the relation between Eldigan and Sigurd. therefore, all doubts that Ares had until that moment regarding Seliph were pretty much vanished.

 

I didn't know Nanna had a talk with Ares because I got Jeanne instead. I'll have to take a look because I like Ares as a character but his arc wasn't properly resolved on my playthrough. 

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'm pretty sure it's stated that Silesse kept a resistance movement going in Thove (aka the northernmost part of Jugdral and thus remote enough likely) after it got conquered. First headed by Rahna, then by Erynis. Nothing comes out of it until the game's final chapter, where they take the opportunity to wrestle the country back from Grannvale after Chalphy was liberated.

I remember this was stated in Thracia 776 but I'm not sure about the timeline. I thought the rebellion started after the childhunts. Just want to get the timeline correct. What seems more likely is that certain remote cities/towns were nominally outside of Arvis' control like Tirnanog, Tahra and Fiana village but those towns weren't in open conflict against the Empire because that seems like a suicidal move while Arvis isn't so power-hungry that he'd want to send troops in every single village of Grannvale. 

14 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

People don't often revolt against powerful, influential regimes when those regimes conquer their lands.  And when they do, you get stuff like the story of Boudica of Iceni, who was beaten and her daughters raped for opposing Roman authority, which also resulted in the resistance forces getting absolutely stomped by Roman forces.  The power of an empire only crumbles when another force of great power comes to match them or when their leadership becomes so inefficient that the power diminishes.  Again, the Romans, as well as the Byzantines, serve as a perfect example.  Over the years they were either kicked around by powerful forces such as the Normans, the nomadic steppe nations that occasionally popped in to say hi, or the Ottomans, or they succumbed to political infighting.

I don't know about that considering how Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded recently and people revolted. 

[Acacia Sgt]

9 minutes ago, Fenreir said:

Rahna was asked to stay neutral by Sigurd once he left to deal with Langbalt, because he did not want to involve Silesse into the conflict.

in FE5, the Magi group fighting Rydrick's rule was actually led by Ced, but that should have happened around the time Leif joined the Fiana's militia, under the lead of Eyvel.

before that, i think Ced wasn't fighting at all, because he was searching for Lewyn instead.

Well, she couldn't afford to stay neutral, since Grannvale invaded Silesse not long after the Berhara Massacre.

He was at Silesse, however. He only leaves after Erynis dies. At least in Thracia, it's because Lewyn is his father and wants to tell him the news of Erynis' death. However, he got entangled with the whole Manster business, and puts on hold his original mission to led the Magi Group.

7 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I remember this was stated in Thracia 776 but I'm not sure about the timeline. I thought the rebellion started after the childhunts. Just want to get the timeline correct. What seems more likely is that certain remote cities/towns were nominally outside of Arvis' control like Tirnanog, Tahra and Fiana village but those towns weren't in open conflict against the Empire because that seems like a suicidal move while Arvis isn't so power-hungry that he'd want to send troops in every single village of Grannvale. 

THere's no indication when it happened:

Karin:
“Well, our prince suddenly left the country. The queen has already passed away, and the princess is still too young, so… We didn’t know what to do, so we set out to look for the prince.”

Leaf:
“I heard that Siledia was destroyed by the Empire. The royal family is still safe?”

Karin:
“Yes. The people opposing the Empire all moved to a city called Tovae in the far north, where they’re defending the royal family. I’m going to become a full-fledged Pegasus Knight and help them out, too.”

Though I doubt it happened until the Child Hunts started. This sounds more like they fled to Thove as the country fell and the resistance began right there.

Also, Tahra isn't remote. They more or less bought their independence through forced neutrality. Which was broken when the Duke took Leif in. Thus prompting the Empire to finally invade.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

4 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I didn't know Nanna had a talk with Ares because I got Jeanne instead. I'll have to take a look because I like Ares as a character but his arc wasn't properly resolved on my playthrough.

there's plenty of additional lore if you get some specific characters to talk with each other.

that goes for both 1st and 2nd generation, however you get a more in-depth look at the whole thing if you manage to get most/all of the children from 1st gen parents.

7 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

What seems more likely is that certain remote cities/towns were nominally outside of Arvis' control like Tirnanog, Tahra and Fiana village but those towns weren't in open conflict against the Empire because that seems like a suicidal move while Arvis isn't so power-hungry that he'd want to send troops in every single village of Grannvale.

basicly, Grannvale followed Sigurd's trail all over Jugdral, but only because it was Langbalt and Reptor that wanted to silence him. nobody really cared about Thracia or Silesse.

Sigurd did also half of the job of conquering the other lands in Verdane and Augustria's campaigns due to Manfroy successfully tricking those nations into fighting against Grannvale.

it was only after the end of the war in Augustria that Sigurd was framed too and started being chased by the Empire.

[Icelerate]

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, she couldn't afford to stay neutral, since Grannvale invaded Silesse not long after the Berhara Massacre.

He was at Silesse, however. He only leaves after Erynis dies. At least in Thracia, it's because Lewyn is his father and wants to tell him the news of Erynis' death. However, he got entangled with the whole Manster business, and puts on hold his original mission to led the Magi Group.

THere's no indication when it happened:

Karin:
“Well, our prince suddenly left the country. The queen has already passed away, and the princess is still too young, so… We didn’t know what to do, so we set out to look for the prince.”

Leaf:
“I heard that Siledia was destroyed by the Empire. The royal family is still safe?”

Karin:
“Yes. The people opposing the Empire all moved to a city called Tovae in the far north, where they’re defending the royal family. I’m going to become a full-fledged Pegasus Knight and help them out, too.”

Though I doubt it happened until the Child Hunts started. This sounds more like they fled the country as it fell and the resistance began right there.

Also, Tahra isn't remote. They more or less bought their independence through forced neutrality. Which was broken when the Duke took Leif in. Thus prompting the Empire to finally invade.

I agree with your interpretation of what happened in Silessia. But I'm not sure if there was actual fighting between the two parties as I'm sure the resistance would focus on self preservation first and foremost. Was Silessia freed after Seliph retook Grannvale or prior to that? Same with Augustria and Verdane? 

You are right about Tahra. Was Leif taken in after Arvis lost power or before? It seems like he took Leif in while Arvis was still in power unless Arvis' rule was extremely short because from what I remember, after the fall of Leonster, Leif fled to Tahra. 

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

10 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 He only leaves after Erynis dies. At least in Thracia, it's because Lewyn is his father and wants to tell him the news of Erynis' death. However, he got entangled with the whole Manster business, and puts on hold his original mission to led the Magi Group.

yeah, no.

Ced doesn't leave after Erynis dies, because she actually dies while Ced is still searching for Lewyn. that is explained in a conversation between Karin and Ced in FE5, when Leif's group meets Ced while escaping from a prison( and you also get a Crusader scroll after that conversation ).

you are right about the Magi group, though.

8 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Was Silessia freed after Seliph retook Grannvale or prior to that? Same with Augustria and Verdane? 

if i remember well, it should have happened after Seliph retook Grannvale. it should be mentioned in the epilogue. same goes for Augustria, after Ares goes back there.

Verdane should have always been under Grannvale's rule without much opposition, since the old king and his sons were all dead. the Spirit Forest becomes pretty much Grannvale's royal garden once the 1st war is over.

14 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Was Leif taken in after Arvis lost power or before? It seems like he took Leif in while Arvis was still in power unless Arvis' rule was extremely short because from what I remember, after the fall of Leonster, Leif fled to Tahra. 

he was taken by the Duke when Arvis was still in power.

the child hunts only start when Lopto corrupts Julius, and so Arvis slowly begins to loose power.

after Leonster's fall, Leif managed to escape together with Finn and Nanna, but they should have been costantly on the move for a while due to both Grannvale and Travant searching for them. that should have happened before meeting with the Duke, and then with Eyvel's group some years after the Duke was spotted hiding Leif.

[Acacia Sgt]

39 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I agree with your interpretation of what happened in Silessia. But I'm not sure if there was actual fighting between the two parties as I'm sure the resistance would focus on self preservation first and foremost. Was Silessia freed after Seliph retook Grannvale or prior to that? Same with Augustria and Verdane? 

You are right about Tahra. Was Leif taken in after Arvis lost power or before? It seems like he took Leif in while Arvis was still in power unless Arvis' rule was extremely short because from what I remember, after the fall of Leonster, Leif fled to Tahra. 

It depends how much effort the Empire took to finish them off. I doubt they left them be, on the other hand, the area is too remote, so maybe? It's still an area officially in open rebellion, even if no fighting if actually occurring. In the end, they did took up arms.

The army’s presence continued to instill courage in those still suffering under the empire’s rule, and civilians all over Jugdral rose in revolt.

Silesia was the first to return to the people’s control.

Shortly thereafter, the wave spread to Agustria, spurring the masses to rise and take up arms.

This is part of the Final Chapter's opening narration. So yes, once news reached that Seliph took back Chalphy.

Well, it depends on how long into Julius receiving the Tome of Loptyr did he unofficially usurped his father's authority. As for when exactly, there's this bit from Genealogy's Ch6:

Levin:
“15 years have passed since Lord Alvis unified the continent. The early days of the empire weren’t actually all that bad. Initially, Emperor Alvis applied constitutional law to govern the people. It was a bit constraining, but it was a peaceful time in Judgral’s history. But several years back the emperor did a complete about-face. He became very rigid with his rule and adopted oppressive governing tactics.

It's hard to discern when this happened. As for Leif's own timeline. Well, at the beginning of the game he just turned fifteen or already well into fifteen, maybe.

Finn:
“Lord Leaf is already 15 years old.

I'd go for the latter, since Leif was born in early 760. So he'd turn sixteen on year 776, the year the game begins. Then on Ch24x:

Leaf:
“It’s all thanks to you, Eyvel. The three years I spent in Fiana were the best of my life.

So he was twelve when he reached Fiana, on year 773. Before that on Ch14:

Leaf:
“Tahra has been in such a bad situation…? The duke of Tahra hid me for five years before he was executed by the Empire…I will never forget my gratitude for him. I’ll go to Tahra, I’ll save it! Let’s go, Saphy.”

He was five years in Tahra. This is reinforced in Ch4x:

Asvel:
“I went after you as soon as you left Tahra. But I lost track of you, and I’ve been here in Manster for half a year now…”

Leaf:
“As soon as I left!? …Then you’ve been searching for me for three years…?”

So it's still three years from his departure of Tahra to reaching Fiana. Then Leif was in Tahra for years 768-773. So from seven to twelve years old.

Chapter 13 has this:

Finn:
“Ever since the battle at Alster… It’s been 10 years now.”

Ch9 has similar dialogue, repeating the ten years bit. So Leif was at Alster until ten years ago, so until year 766, when he was five.

Any ages above can be increased by one to take into consideration Leif's birthday. He was born in early 760, after all.

This is where I lost the trail, since I couldn't find dialogue about for how long he stayed at Alster. Or when he arrived there.

---

18 minutes ago, Fenreir said:

yeah, no.

Ced doesn't leave after Erynis dies, because she actually dies while Ced is still searching for Lewyn. that is explained in a conversation between Karin and Ced in FE5, when Leif's group meets Ced while escaping from a prison( and you also get a Crusader scroll after that conversation ).

you are right about the Magi group, though.

Right. I got it mixed up with Fee, who does leave after Erynis dies to search for Ced (and Lewyn) to tell him/them the news.

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[Ertrick36]

2 hours ago, Icelerate said:

I don't know about that considering how Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded recently and people revolted. 

That's rather simplifying it.  Those "revolts" aren't just singular small factions opposing the might of powerful, cruel, invasive regimes.  They're the result of years and years of history involving infighting and being influenced by outside forces - of many, many factions arising out of the infighting and pledging allegiance with some while denouncing others.  And they're often pushed and backed by outside forces.  They don't really just spring up spontaneously.  Perhaps act out spontaneously, but they aren't created spontaneously.

I'll also add that these days war is waged differently.  It wasn't until recent history that we even classified war crimes - back in the days of feuding lords and mighty empires, there were no rules for engaging in war.  Empires invading other nations often killed, pillaged, and raped their enemies with impunity - and they executed people in horrific ways and for little good cause.  Imagine if Paulinus's beat-down of Boudica and raping of her daughters, along with the annihilation of her tribe, happened today.  The international community would be appalled.  Sanctions would be placed on Rome, world leaders would denounce them, and everyone directly involved in these acts would be tried on an international level for war crimes.  At the very least Rome would suffer great economic repercussions.  Back in times of old, it was seen as necessary and justified for the purpose of establishing an authority over enemies.  Now, it's met with universal disapproval, as many have respect for other peoples' political autonomy.  That's why you don't see the U.S., Russia, or China openly engage in war crimes - they usually try to hide that kind of stuff from public eyes.

And this is relevant to Genealogy of the Holy War because Jugdral's politics aren't just a fantasy of Medieval honor - they're actually an accurate recreation of a Medieval society, with all its strengths and flaws.  It's why they take particular note of Ethlyn being allowed to maintain relations with her brother after marrying and of Sigurd's harboring of Shannan.  Kaga was fully aware of how Medieval societies conducted themselves - he knew that in ancient Japan wives were typically forbidden from treating their relatives and parents as family, and that feudal era kingdoms would always execute entire noble or royal families as a means to quash rebellions before they even begin.  They take particular note of stuff like Ethlyn's relationships and Sigurd's protecting of Shannan to demonstrate just how good of people Sigurd and his allies are.  Their resistance to the norms of Jugdral's society puts them at risk, but they don't care because they just simply want to fight for the good of the people, not to seize power.  And while it ultimately sees Sigurd getting punished, it pays off for the children of him and his friends, who were able to unit and oppose the Loptyr Empire because Sigurd established friendships among the next generation through his acts of kindness - this no more apparent than in the case of Seliph and Shannan's relationship and the rebellion of Isaac.

The norm in Jugdral is brutal, Medieval punishments.  Many non-player factions are all too gleeful to commit horrific acts in the name of seizing power, and it often works.  Sigurd and Seliph represent an opposition to traditional feudal ideals - the idea of winning wars through words instead of violence, of always pursuing diplomatic resolutions, and of ending armed conflicts as humanely as possible.  No one among Seliph's forces ever suggests that they march in and kill all of Julius's and Manfroy's families.  They don't insist on public executions or razing of settlements that belong to the enemy.  They simply just fight the people oppressing the helpless.  Of course, most FE protagonists are like this, but Jugdral is one of the only settings in FE where the antagonists actually have fairly realistic goals - at least among the nobility and royalty.  And admittedly the Loptyr Cult also kind of had a sort of realistic goal with the Child Hunts - which was to build a society of strong, cruel warlords.  It's just too bad they sucked ass at actually convincing anyone that the Child Hunts were a good idea, and they just gave the usual line of "sacrifice to the dark god, conquer the world".

 

Anyway, reading further into it, Isaac actually did maintain a resistance force for a long time.  The reason, I'd say, is because Dannan was actually incompetent.  His leadership was incompetent, and his forces were incompetent.  They were just enough to occupy Isaac, but not enough to completely destroy a rebellion - enough that common folk had no chance of winning a fight with them, but not enough to take down any skilled combatant, which Isaac was filled with.  Dannan was a cruel leader, but not in the way that mattered - which was a way in which he'd be able to demoralize the Isaachian forces.

Also, I wouldn't say Silesse's resistance movement counts because they barely acted out violently against Grannvale occupation forces until Seliph was making moves.  Their role was mostly in ensuring the royal bloodline survived - ensuring that Ced survived.  In this sense, they were more a quiet resistance than a full blown rebellion like you'd see in Isaac.

And the Thracian Peninsula is politically complicated post-occupation.  At first, it was a simple matter of Travant invading Munster and destroying Leonster.  However, after that invasion, Grannvale invaded and defeated the Thracians, forcing them into a peace treaty thereafter.  When this peace treaty was signed, Blume was installed as the new ruler of the Munster District, effectively cutting the Thracians off from the lush land they coveted and went so far as to wage a bloody war to acquire.  So generally speaking, everyone in the Thracian Peninsula absolutely hates Grannvale - those loyal to the Munster District's kingdoms hate them, and the Thracians hate them.  Yet those of the Munster District and of Thracia hate each other as well.  Allies of Leonster aided Leif, but when the empire came they were usually executed and/or interrogated.  The only notable resistance factions still around by the time Thracia 776 starts are Tahra and the Magi Squad.  Tahra initially succumbed to Grannvale occupation, but they eventually rebelled when the Child Hunts began - Leif arrives just in time to help them stave off a siege.  As for the Magi Squad... well, details are vague about their origin, but I'd say Ced's leadership helped shape them into a formidable enough guerrilla force to conduct covert operations.  I'd have to assume they also spawned after the Child Hunts began, as their main purpose seems to be cutting off the Loptyr Cult's influence in the Thracian Peninsula.

[Jotari]

There was that rather noteworthy rebellion in Isaac and Leinster...you know the one you eventually play as. It didn't just start in Chapter 6, the empire were hunting Seliph, Shannan and Leif fore over a decade. They couldn't really put up much of a fight, but they were rebels.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Jotari

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:34 AM, Ertrick36 said:

The only notable resistance factions still around by the time Thracia 776 starts are Tahra and the Magi Squad.  Tahra initially succumbed to Grannvale occupation, but they eventually rebelled when the Child Hunts began - Leif arrives just in time to help them stave off a siege.

it's worth mentioning that General Hannibal was the one that helped Duke Doris and all the survivors from Leonster, by hiding them in his own villa for years without being noticed by Travant only until Leif gets there.

also, were it not for Hannibal giving shelter to Leif at Meath castle while fighting off Rydrick's forces that were chasing him, chances are Leif could have either died in battle, or be captured again and then executed.

he also quickly figured out who Leif really was despite being told that he was just a commoner from Fiana, and he could have just captured Leif in order to deliver him to Travant eventually, yet Hannibal decided to let him go instead while also giving him one of his own knights.

while he might not be considered an actual part of a resistance faction, since Hannibal has always been loyal to southern Thracia and its people, he did play a big role in helping Leif nonetheless.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Fenreir

[Jotari]

36 minutes ago, Fenreir said:

it's worth mentioning that General Hannibal was the one that helped Duke Doris and all the survivors from Leonster, by hiding them in his own villa for years without being noticed by Travant only until Leif gets there.

also, were it not for Hannibal giving shelter to Leif at Meath castle while fighting off Rydrick's forces that were chasing him, chances are Leif could have either died in battle, or be captured again and then executed.

he also quickly figured out who Leif really was despite being told that he was just a commoner from Fiana, and he could have just captured Leif in order to deliver him to Travant eventually, yet Hannibal decided to let him go instead while also giving him one of his own knights.

while he might not be considered an actual part of a resistance faction, since Hannibal has always been loyal to southern Thracia and its people, he did play a big role in helping Leif nonetheless.

You know, I really wonder what Travant would have done if Hannibal did hand Leif over to him. Because while Leif has every reason to view Travant as an enemy, Travant only has reason to try and get Leif on his side. If he got his hands on a Leif without a sizeable army backing him up, would he have executed the prince out of security, or tried to get him on side for profit? One wonders.

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

18 hours ago, Jotari said:

You know, I really wonder what Travant would have done if Hannibal did hand Leif over to him. Because while Leif has every reason to view Travant as an enemy, Travant only has reason to try and get Leif on his side. If he got his hands on a Leif without a sizeable army backing him up, would he have executed the prince out of security, or tried to get him on side for profit? One wonders.

well, considering all the convos in Genealogy, that's quite easy to figure out.

he probably would have killed Leif regardless because:

- being from northern Thracia, Leif would have been just another enemy to cut down;

- being Altena's real brother, he could have told her the truth about Cuan's death, making Altena eventually rebel against Travant( as it happens in Genealogy );

- Travant never considered the thought of cooperating for "mutual peace" with northern Thracia, because he always wanted to conquer all of it instead, in order to unify it by himself alone( and he almost managed to do so until Grannvale kicked him from the north and sent Blume over there to rule instead );

- Altena is also the only one capable of wielding Gae Bolg, therefore Leif would have been considered useless in terms of sheer power( as it happened in a conversation from Genealogy ).

[NewTypeEldie]

As far as I know there isn't much stated in the game besides what the people above stated, but if I were put myself into the world I assume there was some conflict in Silesse and possible Agustria. We know Silesse held out for a while and there may have still been some self interested Agustrian nobles left.

Given what we know there's a good chance they were either taken care of quickly or paid-off/replaced with nobles favorable to Grannvale like how Arvis did with Dozel/Velthomer/Friege/etc.