Byleth End Game Class Build

[Barren]

Hello, I am new here but I have been playing Three Houses since it came out. Having playing other entrees in the line up before hand like FE7, Path of Radiance, Awakening, Fates and Echoes, I knew what I was getting into and I enjoyed it from beginning to end. (Just wanted to get the intro out of the way)

 

I was experimenting around on normal mode (I plan onto doing a thread eventually on BE, BL and GD build ideas for a future hard/maddening run unless someone can direct me otherwise) with some ideas I think can work whether it's because they compliment their personal abilities or it will help their growths out in the long run.

 

To get things moving, I was thinking of how to build Byleth's EO class as a good end game class. I am aware that their faith and reason spell list isn't the best (I wish they had access to at least seraphim) but it's serviceable IMO. I could be dead wrong of course.

 

Anyways, this is the set I've used on normal mode and I'm wondering if it serve me well when I try this out on the harder difficulties

 

Byleth - Enlightened One

Sword Prowess Level 5, Faith Level 5, White Magic Avoid +20, Duelist's Blow, Sacred Power

Battalion: Jeralt's Mercenaries

My reasoning for this build was to maximize byleth's avoid when on player phase should I decide to either nosferatu tank or at least deal a good chunk of damage with aura and expecting a counter attack. Sacred Power is just there for minimizing damage for adjacent allies. 

 

I'm sure that there are better options for EO but I was wondering what people think of it?

Please let me know what people think or have any suggestions to make this build better. I have considered other class options as well based on Byleth's boons but I'm sure that Byleth can do basically any class you want them too.

[Shadow Mir]

I doubt you can get away with this on harder difficulties - Nosferatu and Aura are both heavy, meaning that you're possibly risking getting doubled, especially on Maddening mode (admittedly, though, some classes in said mode have crazy high speed, so you'd be getting doubled by those regardless).

Edited May 26, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[haarhaarhaar]

Yeah magic build Byleth is underwhelming on Hard, let alone Maddening - even more so when they aren't in a magic-oriented class (Enlightened One doesn't have any magic-relevant skills).

Nosferatu also is quite sucky compared to literally every other spell and most physical weapons - it's pretty difficult to find a balance between fixing white magic, getting enough uses to make a Nos-tank build viable, and surviving an enemy phase where most units will double you and kill if both hit. I wouldn't recommend it outside of Normal or on a challenge run. 

EO has good stats, but is only really built for sword users (and Byleth has enough strength to make swords viable in most classes anyway) - it's perfectly fine to use, but I wouldn't consider it optimal for any endgame build.

Player phase dodge isn't super important for Byleth - Windsweep means that Byleth has a guaranteed no-counter player phase, and granted, it doesn't double, but it's likely to do more damage (and has higher crit) than either Nosferatu or Aura. If you want a dodge-based build in general/for enemy phase, then you're better off focusing on swords or fists (with the DLC). 

[Barren]

Good points. I have seen bits and pieces of maddening on youtube and like you said they tend to be way too fast anyways when trying out stuff that worked before.

I know now brawl avoid +20 exists so using fists could work out much better now that you mentioned them.

[haarhaarhaar]

I can personally vouch for this - am running a brawl-focused M!Byleth on my current Maddening CF run, and he's been doing amazing. He has 78 dodge as a WM when he equips fists (and I think 29 speed, Lv. 32 currently just before Ch. 15 story mission for context). Since he mastered War Monk (I glued a Knowledge Gem to him so he did that during Chapter 10 I think) he's only just started taking some hits again, and that's because units get a massive stat spike (and master classes) starting from the Derdriu mission on CF. For comparison, fliers that don't take advantage of Alert Stance+ typically have avoid in the 70s during endgame.

So yeah, the DLC has made fists Byleth insanely good, to the point where I'd say Grappler/War Master beats Wyvern Lord for being the best class M!Byleth can use. Grappler has better speed/movement and Fierce Iron Fist, but War Master has better crit, bulk and gets you Quick Riposte, which is probably the best mastery skill in the game. I'm still undecided on which class I'm gonna use for endgame, but if you go for M!Byleth then I'd highly recommend this build.

[Shoblongoo]

Will also vouch for Warmaster being Byleth's best build. 

Just make sure you're working on his authority in addition to his axe and brawl ranks, so that you can put better battalions him. 

And that you work on his early axe rank enough that you can make brigand his intermediate promotion and grab Death Blow.  

 

[SumG]

Enlightened One is an OK class on Normal, but it's something of a trap class on higher difficulties.  The most notable reason for this is Byleth's speed.  They start with a respectable base speed of 8 and an average growth rate of 45%.  But EO doesn't add anything to speed either as a class bonus or bonus growth rate.  And given how early you gain access to EO, you could easily spend 20-25 levels in that class.  The end result is that Byleth can end up 7-10 speed lower in EO than in other classes, which is absolutely huge on higher difficulties.

EO is also something of 'jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none' class, and the game tends to punish that on increased difficulty.  You really want to specialize in either physical or magical attacks instead of dividing your attention.

I've never tried the War Master build myself for Byleth, though I can't imagine it would be bad given how good War Master is as a class.  However, my personal preference for Byleth was Falcon Knight.  Byleth functions similarly well as a dodgetank as any other unit in the game, gains access to Darting Blow from Pegasus Knight (which further helps with speed issues), and makes for a much stronger than average flier.  I usually kept using swords to still be able to use Sword of the Creator (and also to have a sword based dodgetank with good mobility), but there's a case to be made for lances as well.

Edited May 27, 2020 by SumG

[Barren]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Reading these have really made me reconsider how to approach the harder difficulties going forward. The reason why I thought it sounded like a good idea at the time was because that even if equipping something like a heal tome could still jack up my evasion. Not to mention that having recover can be huge as a powerful heal, but in the end it might just get in the way. 

 

Falcon Knight Byleth sounds reasonably attainable considering that I would work on lances and flying primarily as well as swords so I could go lets say Commoner > Myrmidon > Falcon Knight > Swordsmaster/Wyvern Rider > Falcon Knight. I also wonder if weight -3 would also be worth it for the sake of reducing the weight penalty? I bet it's not worth it but just a thought? I know Warmaster Byleth is easy to obtain too because of Axes and Brawling and brawl avoid +20 helps byleth's avoid when punching things.

Also I am also wondering if battalion vantage + battalion desperation are also worth using? I know that regular vantage requires your base HP be under half health for it to activate. But the battalion version of that only needs to be at 1/3 of its endurance. I know Chaz Aria mentioned that Defensive Tactics reduces the damage your battalions receive. So would it be worth trying out or are they just a waste of space? 

 

So Falcon Knight Byleth would something like Sword Prowess Level 5, Darting Blow, Alert Stance+ Defiant Avoid (maybe?), and maybe either Lance Prowess Level 5 (incase of swordbreaker), weight -3 to reduce weight penalty since enemy paladins and falcon knights from what I read have it, or maybe one (or both) of the battalion skills? I know Dimitri has the famous battalion vantage + wrath combo which makes him among the best critical hit units in the game and I think no one else gets it that combo.

 

And Warmaster would be something like Brawling Prowess Level 5, Death Blow, Brawl Avoid +20, Quick Riposte and maybe Battalion Desperation? 

 

Otherwise I think that without going too crazy in investment I could just go Assassin and keep jacking up sword and bow since I know having a long range attack without fear of retaliating is invaluable. Plus having all that speed, accuracy, 6 move, stealth and swordfaire are enticing options. 

Thank you guys once again for your input

 

[LoneRecon400]

26 minutes ago, Barren said:

I wonder if weight -3 would also be worth it for the sake of reducing the weight penalty? 

Also I am also wondering if battalion vantage + battalion desperation are also worth using? 

So Falcon Knight Byleth would something like Sword Prowess Level 5, Darting Blow, Alert Stance+ Defiant Avoid (maybe?), and maybe either Lance Prowess Level 5 (incase of swordbreaker), weight -3 to reduce weight penalty since enemy paladins and falcon knights from what I read have it, 

And Warmaster would be something like Brawling Prowess Level 5, Death Blow, Brawl Avoid +20, Quick Riposte and maybe Battalion Desperation? 

You want Deathblow regardless of whatever class you want Byleth to end up as. That +6 Attack makes a big difference, and can even aid in Speed.

Weight -3 is certainly worth getting if you want to double enemies on Maddening. Something as basic as a Silver Lance requires 45 Strength to wield without penalty. With Weight -3 and Deathblow, that gets lowered down 24 Strength. 

It also means Byleth can take the Armor Knight Certifcation for a base 12 Defense the moment they hit Level 10.

Desperation does not activate on Enemy Phase, so it is useless when combined Vantage. 

I'd drop Sword Prowess on Byleth simply because they're are a lot more Swordbreaker enemies than they're Lance Breaker enemies, plus they don't benefit from the faire. 

I'd also put Weight -3 on Warmaster Byleth instead a desperation since they will not regularly quad anyways. Weight -3 will allow to wield heavy Shields like Aegis without any speed penalty and avoid being doubled. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by LoneRecon400

[Shadow Mir]

5 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Weight -3 is certainly worth getting if you want to double enemies on Maddening. Something as basic as a Silver Lance requires 45 Strength to wield without penalty. With Weight -3 and Deathblow, a that gets lowered down 24 Strength. 

I had asked about Death Blow and AS in that other thread, and Death Bow does NOT affect AS.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[LoneRecon400]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I had asked about Death Blow and AS in that other thread, and Death Bow does NOT affect AS.

I'm fairly certain that wasn't the case. But seeing as I no longer have a Switch to test this either way, I'll concede this point.

Edited May 27, 2020 by LoneRecon400

[SumG]

Quote

So Falcon Knight Byleth would something like Sword Prowess Level 5, Darting Blow, Alert Stance+ Defiant Avoid (maybe?), and maybe either Lance Prowess Level 5 (incase of swordbreaker), weight -3 to reduce weight penalty since enemy paladins and falcon knights from what I read have it, or maybe one (or both) of the battalion skills?

When I do a Sword Falcon Knight Byleth build, the abilities I'll use shift over the course of the game.  By the end game, I want Sword Prowess 5, Axebreaker, Death Blow, Swordfaire, and Alert Stance+.  Until you get Swordfaire from S+ swords, you can use Darting Blow.  Before you get Alert Stance, you can use a simple stat buff.  But the other posters are correct that you definitely want to get Death Blow (not just on Byleth, but any physical fighting unit).  And Axebreaker is there because I like to use my fliers as dodgetanks, and I find having a flying, sword-based dodge tank is extremely valuable at times (I typically also have at least one axe-based Wyvern Lord and a lance-based Pegasus Knight with appropriate X-breaker abilities as well).

In a NG, the class progression I would be shooting for would be Commoner->Fighter->Brigand->Pegasus Knight->Assassin->Falcon Knight, though admittedly it's a bit intensive on the weapon proficiency requirements.  But on Maddening you have much more opportunity to build weapon experience due to the enemies' toughness, so it is attainable.

Fighter as a beginner class to get axe proficiency a bit faster so you can immediately hop into Brigand.  While a brigand, start training lances immediately to hop into pegasus knight once brigand is mastered.  Once in pegasus knight you can switch between lances and swords since you'll want proficiency in both.  I like Assassin over Wyvern Lord because of the extra benefits to speed growth, the extra axe proficiency required, and the ability to get extra sword proficiency, but you do end up getting Alert Stance and Alert Stance+ later by not using a flying class in the advanced tier and will need to do a bit of extra training in bows.  I will note you want Byleth (and really every character) to get certified in an Advanced tier class immediately at level 20 to take advantage of the classes' base stat bonuses, even if you haven't fully mastered the intermediate tier classes yet.  And you shouldn't feel bad about switching into Pegasus Knight from Assassin for a chapter or paralogue if having a flier would be beneficial.

I would suggest against having a second weapon proficiency in an ability slot.  While there are many enemies with X-breaker abilities on maddening, it is usually sufficient just to carry around one weapon of a different type to avoid the X-breaker penalties (one of my favorites to do on flying units is bows to pick up bonus damage against enemy fliers, plus you get bonus range via the Curved Shot combat art).

[haarhaarhaar]

Battalion vantage is a great skill, but I think you'd just equip a high-health battalion (like any of the lords' unique ones, or most B-rank and above battalions) so that you have 40 Battalion HP worth of leeway, rather than adding in Defensive Tactics. I honestly prefer the battalion skills to their straight counterparts, because although it can be a little finicky to lower a battalion's health, it's much safer to do that over the course of a few battles than to allow your Byleth/whoever to take hits in order to be useful. That's just a personal preference though, and low-HP builds, while risky, can be very rewarding.

And yeah the above advice about Falcon Knights is really solid - it's definitely the best choice for F!Byleth (Byleth needs speed growth boosts rather than strength boosts that WL gives because her strength is normally fine) and potentially the best class for Byleth overall. You should be able to at least S-rank swords by endgame without too much difficulty given the progression that @SumG mentioned, and although I'm slightly less optimistic about getting Swordfaire, the skill set they set out would be great to end up in. 

[Barren]

Sounds great actually! You guys have been really helpful! Weight -3 seems like it's worth having even for the good part of the challenge. And thankfully battalion vantage sounds like something worth using when set up properly. X Breakers I figured would be worth mentioning too. I also like @SumG's class progression because HP +5, Strength + 2 and Death Blow are great abilities to get early and I would be able to eventually use this to recruit units like Mercedes, Ingrid,  and maybe Raphael as a guard adjutant at least. Then Pegasus Knight and Assassin keeps Byleth's speed and then dex and then finally after that HP and strength high enough for it to matter in the end.

Makes me kind of feel bad for the EO class because it's suppose to be a jack of all trades class that can do almost everything well but not optimal at either except for swordfaire and terrain resist. I kind of hoped that there was a way to make it work even on maddening. But as you all pointed it, it's a fine class but not going to carry me through maddening. 

Once again, thank you all so very much. I'm sure I'll be asking these similar questions but for GD, BL, BE, and SS down the line. 

[whase]

Currently on maddening planning to give my Byleth EO with sword prowess, hit+20, darting blow, death blow and that +3/-3 dmg to allies skill. This way I hope to make my Byleth an ally phase attacker and healer, as I worry I might not have enough healers. Reading through this thread has made me doubt my build, but it's too late to change now. Hope I can make it through, wish me luck. =X

[Barren]

14 minutes ago, whase said:

Currently on maddening planning to give my Byleth EO with sword prowess, hit+20, darting blow, death blow and that +3/-3 dmg to allies skill. This way I hope to make my Byleth an ally phase attacker and healer, as I worry I might not have enough healers. Reading through this thread has made me doubt my build, but it's too late to change now. Hope I can make it through, wish me luck. =X

That Would be Sacred Power. I've tested it on Normal mode and it's totally doable because pending on much you have farmed but until the chapter battle, it can be either really easy or just overkill because you would by and large one shot the enemy anyways. With an exception of a few of course.

I honestly thought that EO would work too because I wanted to try an white magic dodge tank. Though NG+ could grant Byleth Renewal and Alert Stance+ to go along with it. Nosferatu having 12 uses and Aura having 3 means that you have anywhere between 10 -15 rounds for them to be put to use which makes this set really limited on hard and probably impossible on maddening based on what others have said when I proposed the idea. Granted equipping a heal tome can still apply the extra avoid even when hiding in a bush or something but that also means you're a sitting duck until you can get someone else to finish off the enemy and pray that said enemy keeps their attention onto Byleth.

 

I haven't tried it personally on maddening but they have already recommended that I don't go down that route. Nonetheless, hopefully you can make it work. 

[whase]

23 minutes ago, Barren said:

That Would be Sacred Power. I've tested it on Normal mode and it's totally doable because pending on much you have farmed but until the chapter battle, it can be either really easy or just overkill because you would by and large one shot the enemy anyways. With an exception of a few of course.

Yes I've used it plenty of times on hard mode, and sometimes it's useful but in late game more often than not it's not too useful (though very nice to have whenever another unit misses 1 dmg to ohko). But I notice it maddening mode I'm often needing three or more units to take out an enemy which makes 3 additional damage a lot.

27 minutes ago, Barren said:

Granted equipping a heal tome can still apply the extra avoid

Sounds like a fun playthrough challenge on hard mode, Byleth can only equip heal and recover...

[leesangstar10]

Unpopular opinion(?): Mortal Sevant Byleth is (slightly)better than Enlightened One.

I did calc and EO has on average 4.5 total stat more than MS. +1 Spd and I forgot the rest(ik they are spread out thou). But MS imo is better because it has black tome faire. Letting Byleth do 5 more dmg with spells. Sure Byleth isn't always going to use spells, but I'd rather take that then 4.5 more stats. Also it's not like the white tome dodge tank build can't be done as MS. 

I honestly don't know why this is an unpopular opinion. I got shit on so much for this and I have not seen any proof that really supports EO > MS. The best argument is MS -10% Spd growth, which is just 1 Spd less every 10 lvls(in an efficient/semi efficient play through you aren't going past lvl 40 realistically).

Anyways, MS Byleth is bad too so I personally don't recommend either. 

Imo Wyvern/Falcon is the best class for Byleth and very useful for ch 13 especially. Byleth can fly to and help ur frailer students. 

On 5/26/2020 at 9:37 AM, Barren said:

Battalion: Jeralt's Mercenaries

also there are other battalions that have better avoid so I'd change this.

[haarhaarhaar]

The issue with magic Byleth generally (outside of Normal) is that he doesn't have high enough speed or magic to kill most enemies. Even with a Tomefaire. I mean, that goes for most of your mages in the late-game anyway, but it's egregious because Byleth is so capable in other builds. EO is available far earlier than MS, with a stat spread that every character in Part I (and for a decent amount of Part II) would envy. On top of that, Byleth's Reason list is crappy enough that they ideally want Tomefaire and Black Magic Uses x2 to be a decent spellcaster. Like you say, both MS and EO aren't great endgame builds for Byleth, but Byleth has far more reason to spend time in EO than in MS because it comes so much earlier with its high bases.

I think MS gets a lot of hate because of that -10% Spd growth (which is a ridiculous way of nerfing the class anyway) and because it's the worst Master class in most respects - I don't think it's quite as terrible as people make it out to be, but it feels like such wasted potential because the game is begging for a combat-oriented hybrid class (and even the DLC doesn't really fix that).

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, leesangstar10 said:

Unpopular opinion(?): Mortal Sevant Byleth is (slightly)better than Enlightened One.

I did calc and EO has on average 4.5 total stat more than MS. +1 Spd and I forgot the rest(ik they are spread out thou). But MS imo is better because it has black tome faire. Letting Byleth do 5 more dmg with spells. Sure Byleth isn't always going to use spells, but I'd rather take that then 4.5 more stats. Also it's not like the white tome dodge tank build can't be done as MS. 

I honestly don't know why this is an unpopular opinion. I got shit on so much for this and I have not seen any proof that really supports EO > MS. The best argument is MS -10% Spd growth, which is just 1 Spd less every 10 lvls(in an efficient/semi efficient play through you aren't going past lvl 40 realistically).

Anyways, MS Byleth is bad too so I personally don't recommend either. 

Imo Wyvern/Falcon is the best class for Byleth and very useful for ch 13 especially. Byleth can fly to and help ur frailer students. 

Honestly, I find it hard to agree since even with Tomefaire, Byleth probably isn't doing much with magic compared to your actual mages (and it isn't like their spell list is amazing either). Also, getting to Mortal Savant means having to waste a lot of activity points tutoring in Reason. Compare that to Enlightened one coming free of charge, and I think it's blatantly obvious Mortal Savant is far worse.

To the last sentence, I guess, but it requires a lot of tutoring, especially if you prefer a male Byleth, which I do because the female's design is beyond atrocious. And I'm not sure it's worth it.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[LegendOfLoog]

4 hours ago, leesangstar10 said:

Unpopular opinion(?): Mortal Sevant Byleth is (slightly)better than Enlightened One.

I did calc and EO has on average 4.5 total stat more than MS. +1 Spd and I forgot the rest(ik they are spread out thou). But MS imo is better because it has black tome faire. Letting Byleth do 5 more dmg with spells. Sure Byleth isn't always going to use spells, but I'd rather take that then 4.5 more stats. Also it's not like the white tome dodge tank build can't be done as MS. 

I honestly don't know why this is an unpopular opinion. I got shit on so much for this and I have not seen any proof that really supports EO > MS. The best argument is MS -10% Spd growth, which is just 1 Spd less every 10 lvls(in an efficient/semi efficient play through you aren't going past lvl 40 realistically).

EO being 0 investment and Byleth's questionable magic capabilities have been mentioned already, but some other factors I can think of: 

• EO is one of only a few classes that give a boost to Authority Skill XP, which makes reaching higher ranks of battalions quicker for better stats/gambits. And in conjunction with requiring less investment in other areas, EO can get high Authority very quickly compared to other class setups. 
• Sacred Power isn't too bad either. I can't say I found much use for it on Hard, but if you do use EO on Maddening, the +3/-3 damage for adjacent allies is probably useful, or at least more so than Warding Blow.

Both are not what I'd recommend, but I can see many more applications for EO than MS in general. Mortal Savant is pretty bad in general outside of a few edge cases, and that still applies to Byleth, imo. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by LegendOfLoog

[Barren]

I too have been hesitant about bringing in a mortal svanat for any team even outside of normal because I am sure that the -10% speed would be a problem in the long run because while having 6 move and sword + black tomefaire is nice, that speed penalty would be a deal breaker knowing that it's a hybrid sword class that can dish out the damage but can't take it and it's slower as a non riding class. At least Swordmaster and Assassin are considerable end game classes though I would say at least with Assassin you get 6 move and stealth which are two of the most important assets to have.

I was actually considering Assassin Byleth at first when I was told that EO isn't the best way to go. But As @LegendOfLoog pointed out, being EO jacks up your experience given with authority allowing you to have access to stronger battalions quicker so at least there is that. Having Windsweep and Curved Shot would be ideal if I were to go Assassin. (though I can accomplish the same thing as Falcon Knight or Wyvern Lord).

 

Assassin is easier for Byleth to go, but Falcon Knight/Wyvern Lord seems to be the more rewarding options. I would have also considered Swordmaster but 5 move maybe an issue. But that's why we have DLC.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Barren

[leesangstar10]

9 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said:

EO is available far earlier than MS, with a stat spread that every character in Part I (and for a decent amount of Part II) would envy.

We are discussing end game class so I assume EO's availability isn't considered. Also I'm not saying don't use EO if you plan on using MS Byleth. You could use EO until MS is available.

 

7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, getting to Mortal Savant means having to waste a lot of activity points tutoring in Reason. Compare that to Enlightened one coming free of charge, and I think it's blatantly obvious Mortal Savant is far worse.

 

5 hours ago, LegendOfLoog said:

EO being 0 investment

Yeah forgot to mention this is like the only strong argument against MS that nobody else seems to mention. I mean by late game getting a skill to level B in order for min req for certification isn't that hard. I don't do aux battles/quest so I basically do monetary/seminar every week so personally I didn't have a problem with this. But I do see that activities like cooking to be much more valuable. Haven't rlly thought about wasting activity points thou. I also just realized that for CF it actually could be a huge problem(make me think MS is worse for CF, but other routes not sure now).

5 hours ago, LegendOfLoog said:

EO is one of only a few classes that give a boost to Authority Skill XP, which makes reaching higher ranks of battalions quicker for better stats/gambits. And in conjunction with requiring less investment in other areas, EO can get high Authority very quickly compared to other class setups. 

I mean MS is kind of low investment compared to other end game classes. You really only need to tutor 3 skills sword, reason, and authority. Faith u really only need C(unless you are going for white dodge tank). Also, by end game if you moderately invest in authority, you should get A or close to without the boost.

5 hours ago, LegendOfLoog said:

Sacred Power isn't too bad either. I can't say I found much use for it on Hard, but if you do use EO on Maddening, the +3/-3 damage for adjacent allies is probably useful, or at least more so than Warding Blow.

I'm not equipping either skill so Sacred power being better than warding blow doesn't really help the argument. 

4 hours ago, Barren said:

I too have been hesitant about bringing in a mortal svanat for any team even outside of normal because I am sure that the -10% speed would be a problem in the long run

As I said -10% is just 1 Spd less per 10 lvls. So it really doesn't affect much unless there are crucial benchmarks. Byleth gets doubled anyways so it doesn't affect negatively that much. 

4 hours ago, Barren said:

At least Swordmaster and Assassin are considerable end game classes though I would say at least with Assassin you get 6 move and stealth

No Swordmaster is not considerable for end game class when Assassin easily outclasses it. +1 move > crit+10 any day. Also I find stealth to be kind of annoying lol cause sometimes I want them to target Byleth but they don't.

Also I personally find curve shot to have about the same effect as windswept(not get counter attacked). Most enemies don't have 3 range options so using curve shot u are normally safe. If there are enemies with 3 range, they are usually archers/snipers which you can just attack 1 range(thank god they don't have close counter). The only con is awkward positioning, but if Byleth has canto this really isn't an issue(another reason why flying byleth is best end game class).

7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

To the last sentence, I guess, but it requires a lot of tutoring, especially if you prefer a male Byleth, which I do because the female's design is beyond atrocious. And I'm not sure it's worth it.

I mean sure it is less investment compared to sword master, but Byleth as a flier is much more rewarding.

Found my calc. At level 40 EO Byleth has +1 str, +1 mag, +1 Spd, +0.5 def, +1 ch over MS. This includes stat boost, stats from growths. As I said stat wise they are very similar. Main reason why I'd find MS to be better(very slightly) is just overall dmg output to be better. Idk maybe because I just attack with spells a lot if I make Byleth a hybrid class(pitfall? cause I am not required to use them)

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by leesangstar10

[haarhaarhaar]

I mean if you're talking about literally reaching the endgame and being forced to reclass into either EO or MS (assuming all other things are equal) I'd still have to choose EO, but only just.

Ragnarok (and Aura but Faith is neutral to this argument) is the only spell Byleth has that is naturally stronger than a Levin Sword+, and if they equip it they are just as likely to get doubled on EP. It also only has 3 uses, and 2 range until you get to S-Rank Reason as opposed to a 3-range Levin Sword+.

So the toss-up is between 3 uses of Tomefaire Ragnarok, and a higher spread of stats in EO. Levin Sword+ with Swordfaire is only 1 Mt short of Ragnarok without Tomefaire. Wrath Strike with a Levin Sword+ on EO does the same damage as Tomefaire Ragnarok on MS from one space.

In other words, Reason really adds next to nothing to an EO build.

So if you plan on building EO for Endgame, you may as well focus on Swords anyway, which streamlines your build compared to growing Reason and spending more time on Authority than you otherwise would (remember Seteth is probably the only person in Part II who can tutor you in authority anyway). But my scenario is based on just choosing between the two, forgetting about any opportunity cost with building either. So putting the build cost aside, the Sublime Creator Sword on EO is better than Tomefaire Ragnarok on MS in pretty much every conceivable respect (except requiring Umbral Steel and the potential for hitting from 3 spaces), especially since Byleth's magic is normally lagging by at least 7 points compared to their strength (assuming strength and magic grow exactly the same amount, there's 7 points difference in Byleth's original bases).

 And obviously EO makes slightly better use of swords/being a frontliner in general compared to MS because of those slightly better stats.

It also isn't likely that Levin Sword+ or Ragnarok can ORKO any non-armour enemy, even with the respective faires equipped. However, unless you're really committed to Tomefaire Ragnarok or love the idea of a hybrid Byleth, then EO edges it because of those stat bumps (not by a huge amount though) over MS.

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by haarhaarhaar

[Shadow Mir]

15 hours ago, leesangstar10 said:

Yeah forgot to mention this is like the only strong argument against MS that nobody else seems to mention. I mean by late game getting a skill to level B in order for min req for certification isn't that hard. I don't do aux battles/quest so I basically do monetary/seminar every week so personally I didn't have a problem with this. But I do see that activities like cooking to be much more valuable. Haven't rlly thought about wasting activity points thou. I also just realized that for CF it actually could be a huge problem(make me think MS is worse for CF, but other routes not sure now).

Is there any good reason to invest in training in Reason in part 2??? Because as far as I'm concerned, the only good excuse to train Byleth in Reason is to recruit the characters who need it (Linhardt, Lorenz, Sylvain).

15 hours ago, leesangstar10 said:

I mean MS is kind of low investment compared to other end game classes. You really only need to tutor 3 skills sword, reason, and authority. Faith u really only need C(unless you are going for white dodge tank). Also, by end game if you moderately invest in authority, you should get A or close to without the boost.

See above, because I think reason training is practically pointless. If I really wanted to use magic, I'd be better off using a Levin Sword+.

15 hours ago, leesangstar10 said:

I mean sure it is less investment compared to sword master, but Byleth as a flier is much more rewarding.

I'm not sold on this - if you prefer male like me, it takes 15 activity points to get the Flying rank needed for Wyvern (assuming no Greats). Not helping is the fact that Seteth and Manuela are literally the only characters that can tutor in Flying. And honestly, I think axes are not that good in this game.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Shadow Mir