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Jotari

What if Sacred Stones had Four Lords?

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One thing that really baffled me about Sacred Stones is that the route split requires two playthroughs to get through. It just seems dang weird when compared to Gaiden which allows you to play both sides of the story, even simultaneously. I get that having the route split be so definite allows us to have two different interpretations of Lyon, but that seems a bit like a weak justification for making the gameplay of the game less engaging, by literally having less of it to engage with in one go. I've felt this to be such a problem with the game that I even went and made a hack that let's you play both halves in one playthrough. But some recent arguments in this thread got me thinking

To cut a long story short there were some comments about Innes feeling more like the lord than Eirika. That got me thinking, what if he (and L'Archel) was a lord? Sacred Stones is a pretty short game, what if the whole route split idea was leaned into more and you picked your protagonist from the very start of the game. There was some talk in that thread to about how the stuff Ephraim was doing in the first half dozen chapters of the game sound more interesting than what Eirika was up to. When you start a new game you're presented with four lords, Eirika, Ephraim, Innes and L'Archel, and then you play through the story, more or less the same story, from one of those four perspectives. Think like Fates and Three Houses, only instead of picking a different faction to side with, we're just picking a different journey to go on to reach the same goal. That I think would be pretty cool, and it wouldn't be all that hard to implement given the convergence of things and the world map encouraging maps to be reused (which is something I know we all love har, har, but seriously if it's more content I think it'd be good). What do you think, would you like to see an Innes and L'Archel campaign included in Sacred Stones (as well as an early game Ephraim campaign beyond his one chapter).

Edited by Jotari

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15 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Sounds like stretching the game a little thin.

How so? I'm not suggesting taking away from anything that already exists.

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The shared maps in 3H were a nightmare, and splitting Sacred Stones into this would be to its detriment.  The reason why I can somewhat stand the route split in SS is because the maps are relatively short (as opposed to the prep/maps in 3H).

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*sad Joshua noises*

4 lords would be a little much, but an Innes or L'arachel mode would be interesting to look at. The problem is that then you would have to make a Sieglende/Siegmund type weapon for L'arachel and Innes without retracting from anything else.

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1 minute ago, Hello72207 said:

*sad Joshua noises*

4 lords would be a little much, but an Innes or L'arachel mode would be interesting to look at. The problem is that then you would have to make a Sieglende/Siegmund type weapon for L'arachel and Innes without retracting from anything else.

They do conveniently both come from countries with Sacred Twin weapons they can personally use (two in L'archel's case).

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I like the idea, reused maps are a nono though, definitely make new ones. It shouldn't be that hard if it's for a remake.

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Honestly, I'd kinda want perhaps a L'Arachel route, (or something, it could be Joshua, Tana, Innes, etc.) and a Lyon route that's unlocked after beating the game once and is a kind of golden ending-thing.

And yeh, reused maps are no good.

Edited by Benice

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Rise of the Deliverance but it's the beginning of L'arachel's journey and there are like, six more guys in her party. All as fanatical as Dozla, and they all get heroic, over the top sacrificial deaths.

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eirika already gets a bit short changed in the game to begin with, despite being the starting lord and arguably the central protagonist since her routes story flows a bit better with what comes before and after. im not against some more time for innes or l'arachel to shine mind (dlc mini storys?), but id rather that a remake focus on tightening up eirikas own story and getting ephraims to flow better instead of adding more story threads to pointlessly tug on.

that said i wouldn't be opposed to a simultaneous route set up like gaiden/echoes, a game sacred stones already kinda leans on. especially if were talking about a home consule release since that would give the gameplay a little bit of extra meat without additional padding. you could even still implement the alternating perspectives kinda setup for the end, where who ever got to the end of their route split first gets to have their version play out or somethin like that.

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3 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Rise of the Deliverance but it's the beginning of L'arachel's journey and there are like, six more guys in her party. All as fanatical as Dozla, and they all get heroic, over the top sacrificial deaths.

This is canon and no one can tell me otherwise.

On the main topic though, I don't know if it would be a good choice, but I would really really like it anyway. I'd love to play Innes or L'arachel or Joshua mode and check out what they were up to at the beginning of the game, or see things from their perspective ala Hector Mode in FE7.

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The idea of getting to play a whole 10 chapters as L'arachel and whatever merry band she can scrounge up to fight evil sounds like the single best thing ever.

Edited by Alastor15243

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45 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

The idea of getting to play a whole 10 chapters as L'arachel and whatever merry band she can scrounge up to fight evil sounds like the single best thing ever.

Also mounted staff locked lord would be pretty interesting.

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As for Innes, honestly, his recruitment chapter actually had some pretty engaging characterization. And having him have his own story would help expand his "spy network" into something you couldn't easily replace with magical divination powers with little change to the dialogue.

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9 hours ago, Jotari said:

They do conveniently both come from countries with Sacred Twin weapons they can personally use (two in L'archel's case).

Yes, but both of those sacred twin weapons are normally given as S-rank weapons that any unit you want can use. Making them personal would take away legendary weapons for other units.

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24 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

Yes, but both of those sacred twin weapons are normally given as S-rank weapons that any unit you want can use. Making them personal would take away legendary weapons for other units.

Well lore wise there's absolutely no reason Siegmund and Sieglinde are prf weapons. So they could either make Siegmund and Sieglinde not prf weapons so there are more to go around, or make Ivaldi and Nidhogg prf weapons, but only on the route that features them as a lord (a bit like how the Legendary weapons for Elibe are prf in Blazing Blade even though there's no lore reason for it as ayone can wield them in the previous game).

Edited by Jotari

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8 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

The idea of getting to play a whole 10 chapters as L'arachel and whatever merry band she can scrounge up to fight evil sounds like the single best thing ever.

Sounds like a fun bit of DLC.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well lore wise there's absolutely no reason Siegmund and Sieglinde are prf weapons. So they could either make Siegmund and Sieglinde not prf weapons so there are more to go around, or make Ivaldi and Nidhogg prf weapons, but only on the route that features them as a lord (a bit like how the Legendary weapons for Elibe are prf in Blazing Blade even though there's no lore reason for it as ayone can wield them in the previous game).

I'd pull out a new PRF for an alternate lord (say, a nice bow as a final going-away present for Innes, or Joshua finding his mom's favorite sword).  Make it so that only one such weapon type is obtainable through the game (if you go with Innes, you don't get Siegmund/Sieglinde, as an example).

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7 hours ago, eclipse said:

Sounds like a fun bit of DLC.

I'd pull out a new PRF for an alternate lord (say, a nice bow as a final going-away present for Innes, or Joshua finding his mom's favorite sword).  Make it so that only one such weapon type is obtainable through the game (if you go with Innes, you don't get Siegmund/Sieglinde, as an example).

That just gives me Sol Katti flashbacks. Breath Jotari, breath. Heroes made everything better by finally giving Lyn Mulagir.

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3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That just gives me Sol Katti flashbacks. Breath Jotari, breath. Heroes made everything better by finally giving Lyn Mulagir.

So we make sure the PRF weapons don't buff useless stats, aren't ridiculously nerfed in terms of another weapon of the same tier, and isn't stuck on a unit that can't take advantage of that beautiful innate crit (0 * 3 is still 0).  Sieglinde, at least, has 4 more MT and gives its wielder +5 Str.

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On 5/26/2020 at 11:37 PM, Jotari said:

To cut a long story short there were some comments about Innes feeling more like the lord than Eirika.

So you were reading my debate with Alastor? While that could be a cool idea, I think Three Houses kind of faltered with four routes and from what I heard, Fates was even worse. Maybe three routes would be a better compromise. 

So what do you think about Eirika as a lord? 

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52 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

So you were reading my debate with Alastor? While that could be a cool idea, I think Three Houses kind of faltered with four routes and from what I heard, Fates was even worse. Maybe three routes would be a better compromise. 

So what do you think about Eirika as a lord? 

WHat I'm suggesting here is different to Three Houses in Fates, in which you pick a side. This is instead more flatly like picking a perspective. In that way it's actually more like Radiant Dawn with it's jumping armies. Only you just follow one for the entire game and then play the same story starting at a different point with a different character arc to follow over the same conflict.

As far as Eirika goes as a lord, I don't see her as anything special, good or bad. I'd have to play through Sacred Stones again myself to form more of an opinion. If I had one I probably would have jumped in on that debate.

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14 hours ago, Jotari said:

WHat I'm suggesting here is different to Three Houses in Fates, in which you pick a side. This is instead more flatly like picking a perspective. In that way it's actually more like Radiant Dawn with it's jumping armies. Only you just follow one for the entire game and then play the same story starting at a different point with a different character arc to follow over the same conflict.

As far as Eirika goes as a lord, I don't see her as anything special, good or bad. I'd have to play through Sacred Stones again myself to form more of an opinion. If I had one I probably would have jumped in on that debate.

That would make more sense. I think SS would need more characters though as the cast of characters is too small compared to RD. Also, Ephraim wouldn't look too perfect if he had more playable units on his side when he is saving Eirika. 

Isn't she one of your favourite characters in the series and one of your favourite lords alongside Lyn, Ike, Alm, Celica and Roy? 

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5 hours ago, Icelerate said:

That would make more sense. I think SS would need more characters though as the cast of characters is too small compared to RD. Also, Ephraim wouldn't look too perfect if he had more playable units on his side when he is saving Eirika. 

Isn't she one of your favourite characters in the series and one of your favourite lords alongside Lyn, Ike, Alm, Celica and Roy? 

Favorite female character in Sacred Stones doesn't really mean a favorite in the series. I don't think she has much competition in that regard outside of L'Archel. Tana, Tethys, Dorthy and Selena are the other competing females and I don't think any of them stand out all that much, at least for me. Well I suppose there's Myrrh too, but she just comes across as yet another manakete lolli by that point in the series.

Edited by Jotari

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Instead of having two additional separate routes, what if the additional Lords had a small side story with a couple of different maps, a la Hector mode? For example, L'Arachel's sidestory will have a couple of original maps wherein she does some things alongside Dozla and Rennac (and recruits a few chars that Eirika normally does on her own route), but merges with the main plot after meeting Eirika for the first time and the game goes as normal with a couple of additional maps. 

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