Thinking about what advantages Beorc have over Laguz (lore-wise)

[Dragoncat]

22 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Oh well, yeah but I'm talking about the medieval setting the game is in, in which it seems weird to me that humans can hold them as slaves.

If we take a page from real world history, I think people from Africa were used as slaves because they had more tribal cultures, they didn't value gold/money as much as the European people did. They were probably very trusting and gullable, and a rich noble could just go up to one and say "Hey, if you and your friends harvest my crops for me, I'll give you some tasty food and some shiny coins that you can trade for more food or whatever you want." And then the noble could pay them much less than he'd pay someone from his culture, because the Africans were happy with just a little bit of money. Eventually this went on long enough that Africans were seen as simple minded people who could be used for cheap labor, and then it got to the point where they weren't seen as people at all. I didn't do research before saying this but it sounds accurate to me.

Perhaps laguz were offered small amounts of gold and some food to help do farm labor or construction or whatever. Laguz are said to be very strong, and they can handle heavy lifting easily. And then the same thing happened with them as what happened with Africans.

[Hanes]

26 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

If we take a page from real world history,

Well I don't think that's how it happened at all. They were simply conquered and not put in any feudal system afaik, in fact colonialism of Africa began in the mid 1800s, way after feudalism had dissapeared and the times of nobility were over and the time of rich capitalists and land owners was the new rule.

The slave trade, which happened way before but even then feudalism was already mostly if not completely over by the times of the new world, focused on physical and mental abuse to make them not leave, by scaring them into submission.

Though that could be a plausible scenario in the world of Tellius, given that history there could've developed different;y.

Edited May 31, 2020 by This boi uses Nino

[Dragoncat]

4 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Well I don't think that's how it happened at all. They were simply conquered and not put in any feudal system afaik, in fact colonialism of Africa began in the mid 1800s, way after feudalism had dissapeared and the times of nobility were over and the time of rich capitalists and land owners was the new rule.

The slave trade, which happened way before but even then feudalism was already mostly if not completely over by the times of the new world, focused on physical and mental abuse to make them not leave, by scaring them into submission.

Though that could be a plausible scenario in the world of Tellius, given that history there could've developed different;y.

Right, I wasn't sure on my history. Although you could easily replace "noble" up there in my thing with "landowner" and it would still work.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Dragoncat

[Benice]

On 5/30/2020 at 9:08 PM, Jotari said:

It's in the backstory. The reason humans could beat the dragons in the Scouring was because dragons had a much lower birthrate relative to humans.

You know, off-topic, but I kinda hope they don't elaborate on HOW Idunn creates all of the dragons. Unless she does it with her mind.

Anyways.

• Beorc are willing to do scummy things and can fight whenever they need to; so, less prideful
• Ranged weapons; both in-game and IRL, having ranged options is a good thing
• No weakness to magic unless riding a pegasus or wyvern
• Faster breeding
• Fortifications and the like

[Jotari]

38 minutes ago, Benice said:

You know, off-topic, but I kinda hope they don't elaborate on HOW Idunn creates all of the dragons. Unless she does it with her mind.

Anyways.

• Beorc are willing to do scummy things and can fight whenever they need to; so, less prideful
• Ranged weapons; both in-game and IRL, having ranged options is a good thing
• No weakness to magic unless riding a pegasus or wyvern
• Faster breeding
• Fortifications and the like

So I'm the only one who just assumed it was literal live birth?

[Hanes]

1 hour ago, Benice said:

Anyways.

• Beorc are willing to do scummy things and can fight whenever they need to; so, less prideful
• Ranged weapons; both in-game and IRL, having ranged options is a good thing
• No weakness to magic unless riding a pegasus or wyvern
• Faster breeding
• Fortifications and the like

Good, good!

30 minutes ago, Jotari said:

So I'm the only one who just assumed it was literal live birth?

I guess lol. I thought that the dragons needed to mass produce dragons in an effort to win the war? I don't think live birth would be fast enough or that a dragon's vag*na is large enough to summon several baby dragons, which would also need to be raised into adulthood to fight.

[Jotari]

16 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Good, good!

I guess lol. I thought that the dragons needed to mass produce dragons in an effort to win the war? I don't think live birth would be fast enough or that a dragon's vag*na is large enough to summon several baby dragons, which would also need to be raised into adulthood to fight.

Depends how quickly they gestate and grow. Although if you want something resembling a feature from the game, in the final battle with Idoun, reinforcements will spawn indefinitely from the four statues in the chamber with her. So it might have something to do with that.

[Koops]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Depends how quickly they gestate and grow.

Pretty sure dragons age really slowly. Hell, half dragons seem to take forever already.

I think the main advantage beorc have over laguz is simply not having a transform gauge.

Laguz can't fight all the time. Beorc do lose weapons over time but they're replaceable. Once laguz untransform they become helpless.

[Jotari]

54 minutes ago, Koops said:

Pretty sure dragons age really slowly. Hell, half dragons seem to take forever already.

I think the main advantage beorc have over laguz is simply not having a transform gauge.

Laguz can't fight all the time. Beorc do lose weapons over time but they're replaceable. Once laguz untransform they become helpless.

Zephiel only brought Idoun back to the world like a year or two before the game starts, so War Dragons most definitely must grow quicker than regular dragons. That's the whole point of them.

[whase]

Ah too bad, I'm late to the topic. So many of the pointers I know have been mentioned already, but here's my take.

the four advantages of Beorc over Laguz:
- Intellect
- tools
- magic
- reproduction

8 hours ago, Benice said:

You know, off-topic, but I kinda hope they don't elaborate on HOW Idunn creates all of the dragons. Unless she does it with her mind.

I always assumed she created them the same way Nergal created his puppets. They're just tools to be used in war, not actual beings. 

Not saying Nergal went through pregnancy, I'm saying Idunn creates them through magical means.

On 5/30/2020 at 10:04 AM, NinjaMonkey said:

They don't have offensive magic though. Bringing a dead forest back to life isn't going to kill anyone.

Funny you'd mention that, Reyson was planning on using that shrine to kill all humans in the forest before changing his mind and using it to restore the forest.

Edited June 2, 2020 by whase

[Hanes]

4 hours ago, whase said:

Not saying Nergal went through pregnancy, I'm saying Idunn creates them through magical means.

Lol, cursed mental images.

[The PaperCrafter]

On 5/30/2020 at 6:40 AM, eclipse said:

Herons get bent out of shape if there's too much fighting, so I don't think they'd be able to launch fireballs and the like (RD magic cards are the closest, IIRC).  Was Vortex a command skill, or counter only?  Could've sworn it was the latter, which is still inferior to hurling lightning bolts on both phases.

I assumed Vortex was just Naesala flapping his wings so hard they produced lethal gusts of wind.

[bethany81707]

On 5/30/2020 at 4:41 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

RD states that the Laguz have somewhat of a cultural habit of arrogance and stupidity. According to Ranulf they need Soren partly because the Laguz as a whole typically just don't bother with strategy. 

This is the big one the game goes with as a symbol. Also Sothe mentioning that the laguz are "Children of Strength to the beorc "Children of Wisdom".

Not only is this a cultural thing, but laguz are also so in touch with their chaotic side that, if a situation is sufficiently high in intensity (like the average battlefield), they lose all sense of reason and continue pushing the objective until they win. Beorc armies can gain the upper hand because they can do things like strategic withdrawals and precision flanking- the reason Soren is so powerful for the Laguz Alliance is because it lets them match the strategy and lean entirely on their strength. Zelgius ultimately defeats them because he finds the force lead by Skrimir and exploits his poor tactical acumen.

The funny thing about Ranulf is that the game sorta implies that he's some kind of avatar of Order among laguz- basically everything mentioned about the laguz's poor planning and fury under pressure doesn't apply to him. Even he can succumb to it under the right circumstances, but the reason he's the main link between the beorc planners and the laguz is that he's the laguz that thinks most like a beorc. Which is a neat parallel to Ike being the beorc that thinks most like a laguz.