How should they make OCs available to be summoned?

[Othin]

I'd like to merge the Askr trio, but I get the impression IS doesn't want to allow that since it'd make it easy to almost always have a merged bonus unit. 

Personally, I have no objection to CYL OCs, but I do hope we get regular versions of Veronica and Bruno at some point. Maybe as the missing Fire/Spd and Earth/Res legendaries using the Mirabilis method?

[XRay]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It doesn't matter to me as long as they become summonable. I'm looking at you, Bruno and Veronica.

Same here, I do not care how they get into my Barracks as long as I can get them in my Barracks.

3 hours ago, Humanoid said:

Unpopular opinion perhaps, but with a few exceptions I really don't care about game representation in FEH

Me too. I do not care too much about who from the other series gets into Heroes, but I do care a little more about Heroes's own characters being playable eventually, since with Cipher gone, there is no way other way to play Heroes's own characters.

48 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Also, half of the last option. They should not be in CYL. Not because they shouldn't be playable, but because people shouldn't have to feel the need to vote for them to get them at all. See choice 1. CYL is the place for regular Fire Emblem heroes in a game called Fire Emblem Heroes to get alt costumes. It isn't the place for people who do not play Fire Emblem to demand characters who are not from Fire Emblem.

There is nothing wrong with people wanting alts for Heroes's own characters. Why is wanting CYL Plumeria any less valid than wanting CYL Anna? Both are still Fire Emblem characters.

[Humanoid]

Mergeable Askr trio might be okay if they extend the rotation to re-integrate Fjorm and add the other free heroes we've gotten since then like Ike, Eir, Peony, and toss in OG Veronica and Bruno in that slot too. However this might be disagreeable for people who've heavily invested in the trio for the purposes of having a bonus unit every single week, so dunno, no real opinion myself since I the only one of the three I've promoted is Sharena and she's mostly base kit.

[Anathaco]

I’d like villains or other NPCs like Fjorm’s siblings to get their own banner after the story ends, a la Book II. The playable, “mascot” characters (Fjorm, Eir, Peony) get their free version plus their presence on another banner, (whether it’s a new heroes banner like Peony, a Hero Fest like Eir, or even on a legendary/mythic  banner, whether as the star of the banner or just introduced kind of like how M!Byleth was) then put them in the legendary pool. So basically, what they did with Book II.

[EricaofRenais]

I think they should have their own banner and then be in the general pool.  I have yet to see anything that makes the Heroes OCs legendary or mythic so them being there has always annoyed me a bit.

[XRay]

17 minutes ago, EricaofRenais said:

I think they should have their own banner and then be in the general pool.  I have yet to see anything that makes the Heroes OCs legendary or mythic so them being there has always annoyed me a bit.

"Legendary" and "Mythic" are technical terms that affects scoring and other game mechanics stuff, just as "Hero" is a technical term for units with names regardless of whether the named unit is a protagonist or antagonist character in their own series. I would not assign the regular meanings of legendary and mythic to Legendary and Mythic Heroes. They could have just named them Arena Heroes and Aether Raids Heroes, but it does not sound as cool.

[EricaofRenais]

1 minute ago, XRay said:

"Legendary" and "Mythic" are technical terms that affects scoring and other game mechanics stuff, just as "Hero" is a technical term for units with names regardless of whether the named unit is a protagonist or antagonist character in their own series. I would not assign the regular meanings of legendary and mythic to Legendary and Mythic Heroes. They could have just named them Arena Heroes and Aether Raids Heroes, but it does not sound as cool.

True, I need to remember that.

[Sayyyaka]

I've always felt that friendly story characters should be free.  I haven't paid attention to the story at all (aside from some bits of book 2/3 here and there), so correct me if there are other circumstances to these characters' inability to join you, but I don't see why Hrid, Ylgr, Helbindi or Mirabilis can't be free.

If they aren't like the above characters, then I think they're fine on their own focuses, I don't think they should be taking up a spot on an Awakening or Thracia focus.

Edit: to add onto this, it's really, really hard to create an attachment to these OCs when so many are 5* exclusive, Mythic-locked or just completely unavailable (Veronica, Bruno, Gustav).  With other characters we've been given reasons to roll them in the form of their source games, that many of us may or may not have played before.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Sayyyaka

[Icelerate]

If they are important to the story/lore of Heroes, than I don't mind them being made legendary or mythic. Legendary Fjorm was fine because she was the main character of book 2. Same goes for Eir and Peony especially because they do deserve mythic status. Lif, Thrasir, Hrid and Gunnthra, should have been regular units instead of being mythic/legendary. 

So I think it should be decided on a case by case basis.  

[Ice Dragon]

31 minutes ago, XRay said:

"Legendary" and "Mythic" are technical terms that affects scoring and other game mechanics stuff, just as "Hero" is a technical term for units with names regardless of whether the named unit is a protagonist or antagonist character in their own series. I would not assign the regular meanings of legendary and mythic to Legendary and Mythic Heroes. They could have just named them Arena Heroes and Aether Raids Heroes, but it does not sound as cool.

While they are functionally labels for gameplay features, that doesn't mean that they don't have lore-related reasons for the characters to qualify for that position. We're never going to get a Mythic Macellan, for example.

[XRay]

25 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

While they are functionally labels for gameplay features, that doesn't mean that they don't have lore-related reasons for the characters to qualify for that position. We're never going to get a Mythic Macellan, for example.

While lore does have some input, that is not the only thing that determines whether or not a character gets debuted as a Legendary/Mythic Hero. Whether a character is from Heroes is also a factor whether they get classified as one. A character's proximity to the the main protagonists and divinity is also a factor, even if the character themselves are not the main protagonists nor divine.

Strictly saying Legendary and Mythic Heroes should be restricted to main protagonists and divinity does not make sense when Intelligent Systems have made it very clear now that being a main character and divineness are not the only things that qualifies a character for Legendary and Mythic status.

[Ice Dragon]

38 minutes ago, XRay said:

While lore does have some input, that is not the only thing that determines whether or not a character gets debuted as a Legendary/Mythic Hero. Whether a character is from Heroes is also a factor whether they get classified as one. A character's proximity to the the main protagonists and divinity is also a factor, even if the character themselves are not the main protagonists nor divine.

Strictly saying Legendary and Mythic Heroes should be restricted to main protagonists and divinity does not make sense when Intelligent Systems have made it very clear now that being a main character and divineness are not the only things that qualifies a character for Legendary and Mythic status.

Story importance (not main-character-ness) is the largest contributor to qualifying as Legendary with more leniency being given to protagonists and Heroes original characters. Those features all still count as lore.

Divinity is the only contributor to qualifying as Mythic. The character doesn't need to themselves be divine, but still needs to either have divine power (as with Altina's blessing from Ashera) or have obtained power specifically rivaling that of the divine (as with Bramimond having a weapon specifically stated to rival divine power and Lif and Thrasir having obtained power that is specifically intended to defeat Hel).

[daisy jane]

9 hours ago, Humanoid said:

Unpopular opinion perhaps, but with a few exceptions I really don't care about game representation in FEH, beyond what already exists. There are plenty of characters, including all the key ones, from all Fire Emblem games already, and if zero new ones are added between now and the day the servers shut down for good, I won't be upset about it. Don't get me wrong: there are still a number of characters I'd like to see added, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it if they never make it in

 

Chalk me one up for the "me either."  and i will put this in another way - I've stated it before, but usually topics like these i feel needs to be brought up. 
for as much crap as "original characters" spin offs etc get - for a lot of people that's how they got introduced to fire emblem in the first place. For me. if it wasn't for Warriors, I wouldn't have been intrigued enough to buy Awakening and Fates and SoV (or even bother with FEH).  and If not for FEH - I wouldn't have known I wanted to play PoR/RD, and the other games.  Sorry to be all Lion King Mufasa but it's the circle of life here. 

I would be as for many people who are all team Console/3ds-FEH is still a LOT of people's first/only experience with the franchise. You can even see it here, there are a tonne of people who like the original characters (and like @Mercakete brings up - every game introduces new characters so why is Heroes spit upon so much, to get in "original characters" that a lot of people may not want outside of those of the fandom etc). 

When I started to play (just simply looking at my obtained). the first few units i ever got was Ryoma (whom I knew), Linde (no idea), Bow Lyn (which confused me because she didn't have a bow in Warriors, but she was my favourite in the game so that's why i picked her outside of anyone else) Valentine Roy, and Bride Thara. some gaps (trying for Micaiah got me a Hardin, and FMorgan/MMorgan). But what really grew me in back were "alts" Hoshido Micaiah (i didn't realise still at the time what seasonals were and I freepulled her), and then Flying Olivia (whom i didn't get because i was on a cruise at the time, so most of the time i was at sea during the the banner). 

If those banners/units didn't exist - if IS simply accepted the vocal "seasonals bad! alts bad!" I lose out because i don't have something to latch on to to get me into the game. I don't learn about more of the games outside of the 3ds era. i probably walk away and just go "eh". 

some of my most used units (Igrene , Fae,  Myrrh), no idea about their games. Haven't played them. but they have gorgeous art, great utility  and it makes me wanting to know about it. 

how does this tie into the Mirabilis (or Peony, or Whomever they include this way) - i think for a lot of people it gives them more connection to this game. sure we can argue it's a reach because the story isn't that awesome or whatever. but people love playing with the units from THIS world and with minimal support with the others. I am a staunch believer that most things Nifl suck (but i've grown to really appreciate Fjorm in all her versions lol). and that two of them shouldn't be legendaries but i wouldn't say they "robbed" a spot or something. (I would with Thrasir and Lif coz how are they mythical i dunno). nor would i say they "robbed/stole" a spot from an awakening character. (or any character). 

if they wanted to have a banner of just the fairies, than go for it. if they wanted to include one in this banner (while they are including a whopping 4-5 units). then that's fine too. I always go to the following: if you don't like the banner - you don't have to pull and you save orbs and/or money. however i do personally feeel this vocalization (so they "know how we feel" is also what kind of hurts banners (in general), because quite frankly it shouldn't TAKE a year for awakening (or fates etc) to have banners. 

just my 2 cents. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 hours ago, Icelerate said:

If they are important to the story/lore of Heroes, than I don't mind them being made legendary or mythic. Legendary Fjorm was fine because she was the main character of book 2. Same goes for Eir and Peony especially because they do deserve mythic status. Lif, Thrasir, Hrid and Gunnthra, should have been regular units instead of being mythic/legendary. 

So I think it should be decided on a case by case basis.  

You mean that Gunthraa's incredible accomplishments of dying immediately and becoming a legendary compass aren't good enough. 😋

 

Or Hrid's accomplishments of doing absolutely nothing. God, Book 2 was a joke.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Fabulously Olivier

[Hilda]

I dont care how they introduce OCs as long as they are introduced either as a seperate banner, free unit whatever. I am still waiting on Regular Veronica and Bruno... for so so so long -_-

In all honesty i hope they introduce Veronica, Bruno and a 3. unit as the new free "Askr-trio" for Book 5 that cant be merged up.

I dont mind that the Askrtrio cant be merged up, the bonus perk is that they are on constant rotation.

[Sunwoo]

7 hours ago, Othin said:

[...] I do hope we get regular versions of Veronica and Bruno at some point. Maybe as the missing Fire/Spd and Earth/Res legendaries using the Mirabilis method?

If they actually do this, I ... might not complain too hard about this, but only because Veronica and Bruno are SUPER overdue. That said, they better not cheapen out on one slot for a character of the game that's being spotlighted along with them, like how Peony basically Tanya off the banner.

I'd still like a male character as our token freebie for book 5, and if it's totally Bruno that works out really well.

[SoulWeaver]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Story importance (not main-character-ness) is the largest contributor to qualifying as Legendary with more leniency being given to protagonists and Heroes original characters. Those features all still count as lore.

Divinity is the only contributor to qualifying as Mythic. The character doesn't need to themselves be divine, but still needs to either have divine power (as with Altina's blessing from Ashera) or have obtained power specifically rivaling that of the divine (as with Bramimond having a weapon specifically stated to rival divine power and Lif and Thrasir having obtained power that is specifically intended to defeat Hel).

This is precisely my problem with Eir - you don't see anything about how she deserves the title of Mythic until nearly the end of the Book, she's just there until you suddenly find out apparently she's the one person in like the entire FEHverse capable of killing Kiran, which isn't until what, Chapter 8 or 9? Like three quarters into the Book is the first time you find out there's anything special about her besides being the only not-skeleton in the...wait, all the generic soldiers are also not-skeletons, and all the Heroes used by the Cohort of the Dead, she's not special there either. That was actually a crying shame, honestly, Hel's troops having a deadened or decaying atmosphere to them would have been really cool and helped cement the aesthetic of the Book. Anyways, it's not until the very very very end of Book III you learn she actually was worthy of the Mythic title(and more importantly the Light type - I don't care how merciful you are, you're Death's daughter, you're a Dark Mythic) all along, and that drives me up the wall, though admittedly it's less of an issue with Eir herself and more an issue with Book III's story.

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Or Hrid's accomplishments of doing absolutely nothing. God, Book 2 was a joke.

And this would be why Hrid is the one Unit I don't mind sacking every copy I have of - casually swiped the status and is obligatorially rerun every few months for doing LITERALLY NOTHING BUT NOT DYING. They had the intelligence to not randomly make Ylgr Legendary since she didn't do anything, but Hrid somehow gets special treatment. Even Gunnthra at least had some serious plot importance for the first half.

EDIT Lol, I forgot to actually chime in on the Topic at hand.
Honestly, I like an abundance of OCs - it's worldbuilding and lore, those are huge pluses for me personally. HOWEVER, this only works if the OCs are properly implemented - do they remain consistent with themselves throughout all their time on screen? Do they randomly become very important near the end for no apparent reason? (-looks at Helbindi-) Do they contribute more than just eyecandy to pad out the roster? (-looks very pointedly at Loki-) OCs need to feel like they belong, which is why, though I've hated Book IV so far,  I have to acknowledge its OCs(most of them, Freyja is on probation until I can tell if there's more to her than just her boobs) aren't badly done - they fit well with the theme the Book is going for, even if I think it was a stupid theme to go for especially immediately after Book III, which I would also argue did a better job with everyone except Eir for the reasons I mentioned above.
That said, Peony and Mirabilis have been rather jarringly implemented. While I can see the value in making them be one-of acquirements like the Askr Trio, I do also like having multiple copies available for fodder purposes(I sacked an Eir on my alternate account for Mythic Boost without losing my only Eir, that's a yes please), so if we went that route Combat Manuals for them would absolutely be a must for me.

Edited June 4, 2020 by SoulWeaver

[Baldrick]

8 hours ago, daisy jane said:

But what really grew me in back were "alts" Hoshido Micaiah (i didn't realise still at the time what seasonals were and I freepulled her), and then Flying Olivia (whom i didn't get because i was on a cruise at the time, so most of the time i was at sea during the the banner). 

If those banners/units didn't exist - if IS simply accepted the vocal "seasonals bad! alts bad!" I lose out because i don't have something to latch on to to get me into the game. I don't learn about more of the games outside of the 3ds era. i probably walk away and just go "eh". 

some of my most used units (Igrene , Fae,  Myrrh), no idea about their games. Haven't played them. but they have gorgeous art, great utility  and it makes me wanting to know about it. 

Imagine if those units that had hooked you into Heroes were replaced by OCs. For example, if Hrid had been on the Awakening banner instead of Flying Olivia. You would have also lost out. Or if instead of Myrrh, Gunnthra was on that Sacred Stones banner. You don’t become interested in learning more about Sacred Stones because Myrrh never becomes one of your most used units.

I said it before, Heroes is not like the mainline games. The old characters, not the new, are the focus; veteran fans get a nostalgia hit and new fans are exposed to the older games in an accessible way. 

 

 

[daisy jane]

1 hour ago, Baldrick said:

Imagine if those units that had hooked you into Heroes were replaced by OCs. For example, if Hrid had been on the Awakening banner instead of Flying Olivia. You would have also lost out. Or if instead of Myrrh, Gunnthra was on that Sacred Stones banner. You don’t become interested in learning more about Sacred Stones because Myrrh never becomes one of your most used units.

I said it before, Heroes is not like the mainline games. The old characters, not the new, are the focus; veteran fans get a nostalgia hit and new fans are exposed to the older games in an accessible way. 

so they were on the banner. it doesn't mean the other ones wouldn't be included. (and there were still a tonne of other units). But that's my point. People hate alts. but alts is what grabbed me into the game. People hate original characters, but there are a lot of  Heroes Original characters that are drawing people into the game, and the OTHER characters is what helps people learn about FE. and i have to say - i think that's for you (well and a WHOLE lot of people). but its very evidenced that another whole lot of people like the characters the game created and quite frankly - i think the game does a good job at balancing both. it could be better. don't get me wrong. It easily simple of just reducing the amount of seasonals, and including new heroes and being more creative with the summoning pools. but I'm not going to raise a pitchfork because they included five new heroes, and also included someone not from the game. it doesn't take away from the fact that it's five new heroes being included. (or 3). ANd quite frankly even if they had their own banners people would complain that that banner was taking away from other games. so regardless - people are mis. 

[XRay]

56 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

The old characters, not the new, are the focus; veteran fans get a nostalgia hit and new fans are exposed to the older games in an accessible way. 

Heroes is a celebration of the entire series, so why should it exclude itself from being celebrated? Heroes's characters have their own fans too, and why should they be excluded?

As a veteran who has played a few other games, playing Heroes and being exposed to the old games I missed does not really make me want to play any of them. I will read the lore, plot, character bios, supports, and game mechanics, but I do not think I will ever be interested enough to play them.

[Baldrick]

1 hour ago, daisy jane said:

so they were on the banner. it doesn't mean the other ones wouldn't be included.

My hypothetical is explicitly considering the case in which they aren’t included.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Heroes is a celebration of the entire series, so why should it exclude itself from being celebrated? Heroes's characters have their own fans too, and why should they be excluded?

Not being in the summoning pool does not mean they are being excluded.

[eclipse]

21 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

I must say I didn't expect the option of being treated like Alfonse, Sharena and Anna to be so popular.

I only heard complaints and complaints about how the trio has been screwed over because they can't be merged (and being free for everyone is probably the reason they have bad kits) and that makes them useless.

They sit at the very bottom of the tier list IIRC. And yet here you are, arguing that they are the way to go for OCs.

 

At this point I must ask you to elaborate a bit more because I am genuinely curious. Do you actually use Alfonse, Sharena and Anna and don't care what the tier list says?

Or you don't care about the gameplay side, you are just collectors (like me) and like to have them all and their pretty art be available for free without needing to worry about merging and stuff?

Or you don't like OCs but don't feel like screwing over people who want to use them by picking option 6?

If you're going to ask this type of question, try to keep your personal biases out.  Because I give zero shits about things like power creep.

[Ice Dragon]

16 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

This is precisely my problem with Eir - you don't see anything about how she deserves the title of Mythic until nearly the end of the Book, she's just there until you suddenly find out apparently she's the one person in like the entire FEHverse capable of killing Kiran, which isn't until what, Chapter 8 or 9? Like three quarters into the Book is the first time you find out there's anything special about her besides being the only not-skeleton in the...wait, all the generic soldiers are also not-skeletons, and all the Heroes used by the Cohort of the Dead, she's not special there either. That was actually a crying shame, honestly, Hel's troops having a deadened or decaying atmosphere to them would have been really cool and helped cement the aesthetic of the Book. Anyways, it's not until the very very very end of Book III you learn she actually was worthy of the Mythic title(and more importantly the Light type - I don't care how merciful you are, you're Death's daughter, you're a Dark Mythic) all along, and that drives me up the wall, though admittedly it's less of an issue with Eir herself and more an issue with Book III's story.

Being the daughter of a god automatically gives you divinity. That in itself is enough to qualify a character as Mythic.

Her default skill set as a passive healer is the exact opposite of death, which is why she is a Light Mythic Hero instead of Dark. She takes heavy inspiration (her name and skills) from the Norse goddess Eir, who is goddess of medicine.

[GrandeRampel]

6 hours ago, eclipse said:

If you're going to ask this type of question, try to keep your personal biases out.  Because I give zero shits about things like power creep.

And this is a good answer. It's also one of the ones I thought of as a possible answer, that you didn't care about competitive play and power creep.

If the way I posed the questioned was biased, or seemed to be formulated in a way to get a reaction I'll let you know it wasn't intentional. Sorry for the mistake, but thank you for your answer.

[SoulWeaver]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Being the daughter of a god automatically gives you divinity. That in itself is enough to qualify a character as Mythic.

Her default skill set as a passive healer is the exact opposite of death, which is why she is a Light Mythic Hero instead of Dark. She takes heavy inspiration (her name and skills) from the Norse goddess Eir, who is goddess of medicine.

And this is another reason why she feels so off to me - randomly the exact opposite of Hel, then surprise, she's not Hel's daughter after all, gee, who'd have seen that coming? Yeah, that's more an issue with the Book's writing, but it still takes away from Eir's character.