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FireFenrir

Your opinion on FEH evolution from 2017 to now.

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As the title say, I was wondering what everybody think about how FEH evolve. What could they improve, what they did/do wrong.

I just think that there's a lot of things that just goes wrong with it, like the new Heroes they putted. Not the characters , but more all the skills that grants +14 buffs or stuff like that. That makes character to op, and that make the game looks too easy to have great heroes. It's not the same than just build your Heroes with Skill Inheritance. That's just my point of view, and I don't know what are you thinking, but if future Heroes they will put are all with those skills buff, it will not be as funny as before I think.

Also, something I don't like much is that this game seems to work a lot with fan service. Like, some spring characters really are (think of Loki for example). Fan service isn't a thing that disturb me for other games, but for Heroes, that does quite a bit, but couldn't really explain why exactly..... But they seem to just put less fan service actually, so that's a good point I guess. 

Althought, Heroes is still a great mobile game to me, because it helped me a lot introduce into Fire Emblem in general. Great point is also that they make 5* easier to have, even if summon can be a really bad with you sometimes, (I sure don't rememher of that Performing Shigure that just camed after 2 years, and more than 5 broken rates) and that's quite a good point depending on how you see it. There's still a bit of "challenge" thanks to this. 

And last thing I'm gonna say is that they putted Heroes from many worlds, and for peoples that just don't played every FE  games (like me), that's a great thing. That makes me discover Heroes I don't know and make me appreciate them, and just make me want to play the game they're from.

Even thought, I'm pretty sad to know that Fire Emblem Cipher TCG will end, most cause of FEH. But that's ain't the reason why I will stop play this game, even if I feel that make me play less to it....

So, what do you think about how it evolves from 2017 to now? I'm just curious about what is everyone thinking of it.

Edited by FireFenrir

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It wasn't available in my country back then and it still isn't now. So I guess they could improve on reach + region wise. 

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14 minutes ago, FireFenrir said:

As the title say, I was wondering what everybody think about how FEH evolve. What could they improve, what they did/do wrong.

I just think that there's a lot of things that just goes wrong with it, like the new Heroes they putted. Not the characters , but more all the skills that grants +14 buffs or stuff like that. That makes character to op, and that make the game looks too easy to have great heroes. It's not the same than just build your Heroes with Skill Inheritance. That's just my point of view, and I don't know what are you thinking, but if future Heroes they will put are all with those skills buff, it will not be as funny as before I think.

But what do you think about how it evolves from 2017 to now? I'm just curious about what is everyone thinking of it.

For the most part, I think what they have done is fine.

I would argue most of the current tier 4 skills are absolutely necessary for balance. With only tier 3 skills, Enemy Phase units are way underpowered compared to Player Phase units. Enemy Phase units need a lot more stats and skill effects to be on the same level of effectiveness as Player Phase units. Player Phase players to this day can still get by with just slapping a Blade tome, Reposition, Fury, and Desperation onto a mage and run a Dancer/Singer and call it day.

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what i mostly care about in FEH is game representation, so whenever a New Heroes Banner with 100% new characters pops up, that alone is enough to make me happy

my main complaint is that many characters (if not almost all of them) from PoR, Genealogy, Echoes and more are only available as 5* units, while many Awakening, Fates, Blazing, Binding and Mystery characters are available at 4/3/2/1*: i know, 5* units will never be demoted, but i see zero reasons why Mist should be locked at 5*, while, Sakura, Lucius, Serra, Maria and other shouldn't, that's just unfair, even more so considering that she has nothing on them

Edited by Yexin

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I remember back then being scared from Myrrh as she was both a dragon and a flier, which meant she could receive hone and fortify buffs from two types of units... Boi, was I naive to think that she was as op as a unit can ever be. This doesn't necessarily mean I don't like the stronger units getting added to the game, but sometimes things get a little absurd, which really hurts my favourites whom I have been using from the very beginning.

1 hour ago, Yexin said:

my main complaint is that many characters [...] are only available as 5* units

This is probably my biggest problem with the game. When I started I was really into Awakening, and, of course, I wanted to build up and use Lucina. Guess who doesn't have a single normal Lucina to this day? She has literally been powercrept into oblivion, there are free sword infantry units available that are far better than her, and instead of being demoted, she just got removed from regular banners. Don't get me wrong, this wasn't a bad move from IS, I remember when I was pitybroken by Mist, so I know what it feels like to pull an off-banner, bad unit, but I don't see why them getting demoted to 3-4* would've been so bad. Most of these characters doesn't have any redeeming quality, they ususally aren't even good fodder, but I would've loved to be able to +10 Ephraim for example... 

But to say something nice about the game as well, since I do enjoy it, so it wouldn't be fair to only complain, this new 4* focus system, and the free 5* after 40 summons thingy are quite good. Even if a unit is clearly only there to be the 4* focus, demotee, we can get seasonal units, and are able to merge them with less orbs. I also managed to get Bunny Fir this spring, and I have yet to experience something super-bad to ruin my mood after that...

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36 minutes ago, coldhand25 said:

I don't see why them getting demoted to 3-4* would've been so bad.

Though this is what I would have liked as well, technically you ruin the concept of created rarity most games with 'old' Units go for with this route - by removing older Units from the pool of obtainable Units, you create an artificial rarity far exceeding the normal rarity of a 5S-exclusive Unit because now it's an unobtainable 5S-exclusive Unit. This is why I think older Seasonals won't ever get the spark effect or an alternate way to obtain them, because it would cheapen the flex of being able to say you have a +10 Spring Camilla.

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What they did right:
- The difficulty in Mythic and Legendary heroes was spot on until recently where older units have a hard time to keep up, but that was expected with the new units powercreep and i dont mind it so far
- I think the rewards they hand out is decent
- The banners have gotten much more diverse which is a good thing
- The inclusion of Mythics like Bramimond, Altina Naga Duma etc was excellent
- There is a decent mix of involved PVE content (Hall of Forms) vs automatic PVE content (Lost Lore)

What they did wrong:
- BHB maps could have used a higher difficulty in the forms of Abyssal or Reinforcements (Tana & Amelia is the only one)
- 4 Mythic blessings... made stuff much more convoluted in my eyes. They should have sticked with 2 Blessings at max, or should have allowed double blessings on regular Units so you dont have to divide your barracks into Arena vs AR
- Duo-Skill units are just... ugh I still havent pulled activly for one until today because i refuse to support such a shit feature.
- i think the powercreep went overboard, the BST increase in combination with the powercreep increase in weapons (1-2 effects vs now what? 3-4 effects) has gone overboard, especially since the start of Book 4, It was still okeish one year ago.
- the slow paceing of Weapon refines is utter garbage
- the inability of IS to implement weapon refines for Distant Counter weapons
- the heavy emphasis on Dancers that basicly just undermines any strategy in a strategy game. I think the game should restrict the use of Dancers to 1 per Team (AR, Arena PVE everything)
- no personal/refine weapons for old Healers
- the inability to tweak the balance in such a way that its not only Special spamming (which makes Healers redundant).
- the inability to further your old +10 favourite units aside from Dragonflowers and Tier4 skill inheritance. Basicly makeing you pray they soon get a refine and that the refine isnt garbage and they get the resplendant treat to make them competetiv again
- the inability to implement ANY FORM of Co-op play.  like seriously, the friend list is outside of unit picking for some specific modes utterly garbage and useless.
- no regular Bruno and Veronica

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The game's got better with time, this showing especially with the writing of newly added characters. There hasn't really been a dud mode added - I'd even argue that Relay Battles were a good concept, just too overtuned. They've since, of course, been replaced in spirit with Mjolnir Strike. Powercreep isn't a real thing. Numbers and skills have to get larger to avoid stagnation and productively explore new design space; do you really want to go back to the days where everyone ran either Fury/Desperation, Fury/QR or DC/QR?

Edited by Parrhesia

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9 hours ago, Yexin said:

my main complaint is that many characters (if not almost all of them) from PoR, Genealogy, Echoes and more are only available as 5* units, while many Awakening, Fates, Blazing, Binding and Mystery characters are available at 4/3/2/1*: i know, 5* units will never be demoted, but i see zero reasons why Mist should be locked at 5*, while, Sakura, Lucius, Serra, Maria and other shouldn't, that's just unfair, even more so considering that she has nothing on them

It’s no coincidence that those five games were the ones represented at launch. They have the highest amount of representation in the common pool, and except for FE7, they have more units in the 3* pool than the 5* pool.

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Honestly, my opinion really hasn't changed too much.

I've never played the game competitively. I just like putting together teams of Fire Emblem characters and training them. It's probably for that reason that aspects like powercreep and P2W mechanics in Aether Raids never really bothered me.

My only real big complaint is that they could stand to flesh out some of the events better. They seem to be focusing more on just adding new ones rather than improving older ones. Honestly, Grand Conquests feels so outdated right now but they change nothing about it.

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The gameplay has gotten really stale, yes, but honestly, I can't blame it too much for that. It happens to any game, and just about every game. The bolder attempts to change up the fundamental gameplay, in the form of larger map special modes, have fallen flat on their face for me, so ultimately I use the "standard" 4v4 small map battles as the metric to measure the game's worth by. And in doing so, I can't really say that the game has substantially evolved at all.

At the time the game released, I said the game had better fundamentals, mechanically, than the mainline games. I still stand by that opinion, with things like the deterministic specials system blowing away the RNG nonsense of the critical hit system, and precise positioning mattering a whole lot more. For comparison, I was sick of Three Houses after 3/4 of one route and while I forced myself to finish that route, I have no intention of revisiting the game.

I do think we're nearer the end than we are to the beginning - and if not, my time with the game certainly is - but no big regrets for it being my first mobile game. Maybe it's a lack of imagination on my part, but I don't think that the appeal can come back in the form of trickle content: I feel the only way to recapture the enjoyment of the actual gameplay would be a full-blown sequel. I don't know if any gacha can get away with that though, being unfamiliar with the history of the genre, thinking particularly about how the whales would react.

In the end, my feelings towards the game now are like what I experienced in my last few years with World of Warcraft. Plenty of fond memories, plus the sunken cost fallacy, causing me to hold on against the tide. It's not smart I'll grant you that, but in my defense I can at least say I'm taking it all a bit less seriously now and there are plenty of times where I willingly reduce my commitments without feeling so bad about it. I've even stopped reading any of the story, along with any of the FB dialogue and anything else like that, since about chapter 2 or 3 of the current book. I have no idea what's going on story-wise now, and honestly don't mind that I don't.

Edited by Humanoid

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7 hours ago, Baldrick said:

It’s no coincidence that those five games were the ones represented at launch. They have the highest amount of representation in the common pool, and except for FE7, they have more units in the 3* pool than the 5* pool.

i perfectly know that, but i don't think it's a good reason to keep non-launch units as 5*-only

Nephenee made sense when she was released to be 5*-only since she introduced Wrath, but now we have Astram, so why keeping Nephenee as 5*-only, and """fixing""" this problem by completely removing her from New Heroes and Special Heroes banners?

also, can we really say that adding new heroes from underrepresented games is ok, when the majority of them will stay as 5*-only units?

excluding Legendary and Special alts, Genealogy has only 21 characters, 12 of which are 5*-only, 4 are TT/GHB rewards, and 5 are 3/4*

also, were they to make a "Lex, Azel, Fury, Midir" banner, for example, 3 of them would be 5*-only units, while the demote would be screwed skills-wise

again, there are more examples, not gonna list them all

"but that's just the way it is" ok but it doesn't mean that they can't do anything about it

there are more things i could say, but i think i've made my point clear

Edited by Yexin

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Heroes right now is a massive improvement on Heroes back then.  There's a lot more to do now (even if I think a lot of the game's modes are filler), you almost always have something to do every day.  Also, the way they now add a 3*/4* unit directly to the pool (assuming they're bringing this back as of the current focus) and have a separate unit as a 4* focus is honestly what I was wanting them to do since the first year, so I will say that I've been heavily pleased in that regard.  They even have 4* focus on seasonals now which is crazy!  I have some issues with AR (AR Fortress is pointlessly punishing for new players), but with Peony/Eir and Altina (who should've been permanently free tbh), you can easily make your way up to t21 as a f2p player, and I feel like that's worth praise. Sparking is also another great improvement, though I feel it should be expanded to legendary focuses.  More on that later.  Accessories and Aether Resort are really nice additions, the former especially so.  You get more value out of your units when you can give them a beard or a helmet.  Overall I enjoy Heroes as it is now, but there are a lot of things I'd like them to work on.

Heroic Grail distribution is horrific for example, either that needs to be fixed or they need to make the grail cost cheaper.  If you missed a TT unit it costs almost a year's worth (my math is probably off by a month or two) of grails to +10 them.  If you're a new player that means you don't get to use grails on any of the other units you missed if you have a grail project.  I see no reason why characters with little to no gameplay value such as Tobin, Clive or Canas need to be this ridiculously expensive.  A more baffling thing is that whales can't even just literally whale for them to get the necessary grails.  What's the point?  If they're worried about Aversas/Kronyas, almost everyone that would +10 them has them already.  Please, just give more grails.  Please.

Many choices with 5* exclusive units are dumb.  Is there anyone really whaling for Lugh or Ranulf at this point in time?  It feels like things like this are only there to be an inconvenience for people that like them.  They don't want to harm their "bottom line" or whatever, I guess, but I don't think they're really getting that much profit from it.  They should've kept doing demotes for 5* units.  Also, generic weapons shouldn't be 5* exclusive.  All the Serpent tomes are, which is awful.  It just restricts SI possibilities even more.  I guarantee all Fox tomes will meet this same fate.  I'm pretty sure Safeguard+ and Barrier Lance+ are 5* exclusive too, and who are they on?  A generic sword dancer and a generic blue flier.  Many units like this should be demoted for the greater good.  Also, while we're talking about the normal summoning pool, colourless is still hell.  I don't really know what my ideal fix for this would be, but some characters may just have to be removed from the pool entirely.  Pretty much every gen 1 healer has worthless fodder due to how poorly handled they were at the beginning of the game.  The best you can hope for is Miracle, the only other potentially valuable stuff would be their generic staves/healing skills that you might need specifically if you're building another healer, and then that costs 20k feathers.  I think it would be cool if FEH introduced a friend point system like some other gacha games.  Using friend points, you could roll on an FP focus that has only old 3*s/4*s to clear up their respective pools and keep them easily available, but I've been sending them feedback for this every now and then since launch so I really don't expect it to ever happen.

The way refines are handled is also really annoying and tedious.  4 per month is beyond ridiculous.  And with them using a gen 2 unit to take a slot in each new batch we might actually be waiting until next year to have all gen 1 units get their refines.  Unless they just do a massive batch of refines for healers at once, since they've decided to ignore them for years.  I can't believe we've gone through two gen 2 5* exclusive green dragons without giving Fae a prf.  I honestly can't imagine how long it'll take to get to current gen units' refines.  The fix to this is obvious...just release refines more frequently.

I don't like legendary focuses.  At all.  There are a lot of skills locked to these characters, and if one of them is a favourite you're in for a rough ride just getting one of them, let alone daring to +10 them.  I don't remember the exact numbers but I think it took inbetween 2 to 3 times the amount of orbs to +10 a legendary unit compared to a normal 5* focus unit.  To be honest, I don't know the best fix for this, but I think adding sparking is a start.  I know IS don't want to make their premium scoring units easily available, though, so I doubt anything will change with this unlike some of my other issues, but there's nothing that makes me want to not roll on a legendary focus like knowing that I could use 300 orbs just to get only characters I didn't want/can't even make use of.  Some early legendary units are so bad.  I sure as hell would never spend money on these things either.  

Personally, I don't think powercreep affects all that much.  My Sophia still takes care of weirdos like normal Mareeta and Fallen FCorrin, but I will say that characters like these are pretty dumb just by concept.  I don't see any reason why Close Call or Repel, or the former two's prfs needed to exist.  These characters could've been made good without them, but I guess someone on the team really just wanted more one man army characters.  When other characters require some decent positioning just to maintain their buffs, these guys can come in and get them for simply existing, it's kind of sad.  This isn't really necessary, but I think they could give older units more buffs.  I forgot where I read this, but someone suggested old units got a stat boost for being +10'd, that way it would take some dedication to make that unit better.  I know dragonflowers already exist, but those would get expensive really fast. 

While not as big of an issue as the others, the distribution of sacred coins could be better.  For old players this isn't an issue, but I don't know how long it'd take for a newer player to catch up, probably years...

If any one of these complaints are addressed this year (hopefully one of the first two), I will consider that a victory.

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I'm very happy with most of the changes, even ones that improve things slower than I'd like still improve things. My only real concerns are the Feh Pass being intrusive (particularly in the quests menu) and the Gen 4 stat boosts, which I think were unnecessary and set a bad precedent.

I'm especially happy about the free summon mechanic introduced in April, as well as the rate of adding proper New Heroes since the start of 2019.

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47 minutes ago, Sayyyaka said:

Personally, I don't think powercreep affects all that much.  My Sophia still takes care of weirdos like normal Mareeta and Fallen FCorrin, but I will say that characters like these are pretty dumb just by concept.  I don't see any reason why Close Call or Repel, or the former two's prfs needed to exist.  These characters could've been made good without them, but I guess someone on the team really just wanted more one man army characters.  When other characters require some decent positioning just to maintain their buffs, these guys can come in and get them for simply existing, it's kind of sad.  This isn't really necessary, but I think they could give older units more buffs.  I forgot where I read this, but someone suggested old units got a stat boost for being +10'd, that way it would take some dedication to make that unit better.  I know dragonflowers already exist, but those would get expensive really fast. 

Close Call and Repel makes Spd tanks more viable. Until Aether Raids and SK!Alm became a thing, there was little to no reason to use Spd tanks since they could not handle multiple rounds of combat per turn as well as slow Def/Res tanks

Solo effects help expand the player's toolbox. Solos are great for Player Phase units who see a little bit of Enemy Phase action at the start of a map, but need more Spd than Fury can provide. In general, one man solo armies are not very viable in high difficulty modes. In player's hands, they lack the stat stacking of super tanks, and using BK!Eliwood and Gaps and Openings makes them very vulnerable to Panic, and since they are away from allies, it is not easy to get rid of Panic and debuffs. In AI hands, they group up too much with other units, and even if you leave them alive as the last unit, raw damage nukes and properly built tanks will still send them flying, so they are not a huge threat.

For old units getting stat buffs, we have that in the form of Resplendent Heroes. It is locked behind a paywall, but I do not think they are going to remove the paywall at this point.

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3 hours ago, Yexin said:

also, can we really say that adding new heroes from underrepresented games is ok, when the majority of them will stay as 5*-only units?

excluding Legendary and Special alts, Genealogy has only 21 characters, 12 of which are 5*-only, 4 are TT/GHB rewards, and 5 are 3/4*

Yes we can, because representation is representation regardless of what rarity they come at.

Even if every Genealogy unit was in the 3/4 pool, including the TT/GHB units, they'd still be less than the 28 Fates units in the 3/4 pool. The best way to solve underrepresentation is to add more banners for underrepresented games. Ideally, it'd be through a mass injection of 3/4 units, but that would make less money so it's quite unlikely.

 

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Isnt character rep always going to be uneven? Considering some have more characters at base, it's already uneven. But I'm okay with that.

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The questionable or bad:
Duo skills are pretty much dead content to anybody who isn't a fan of a specific Duo unit and/or isn't a whale (since they're seasonal units but made with the incentive to be overly competitive for Coliseum-style modes). While there may be some very annoying ones (Duo Ephraim, Duo Micaiah, and Duo Alm are ones I personally loathe fighting against when they're +10 in Arena (Assault).), they're not going to be used a lot by the average F2P (aside from perhaps Duo Ephraim when he becomes available for sparking next month).

While powercreep is inevitable, the rate at which powercreep takes place is pretty concerning in Book 4 -- it feels like there's so much powercreep going on in book 4 thus far alone than in Books 1, 2, and 3 combined. The feeling is compounded by IS trying their damn hardest to make the Speed stat (more than) relevant with units starting at 45+ Spd at +0 and base kit and skills that take advantage of having high Speed like Close Call and Repel. On top of that, infantry units have gotten very strong overall to the point that having an infantrykiller weapon that's better than the Poison Dagger+ wouldn't feel out of place today than in 2017. Though we can't forget that older units are struggling to keep up and nowadays, armored units are probably the weakest movement type overall (there may be a few standouts like Edelgard and Sothis but mobility issues can still rear its head and stats typically don't do enough in the face of a rampant number of units with armorkiller or armor-piercing weapons especially when combined with statcreep of said units). If Story mode doesn't give you an idea of how annoying some of these units are, then Hall of Forms likely will.

IS hasn't really done much with the Divine Codes mechanic despite how much IS hyped it up when it was first revealed. No new paths have been introduced since the introduction of the Compile Manual menu (about 3 months ago) and the rate of gathering Divine Codes still feels like a trickle (not unlike Heroic Grails) despite improvements to acquisition rate. The compilation of manuals only avoided being dead content because of events handing out Ephemera for limited-release manuals (enough to get, at most, both 5* manuals and a 4* manual every month).

There may be a lot of different gamemodes but a lot of them end up feeling the same (Grand Conquests is just competitive Rival Domains, Mjolnir's Strike is just Relay Defense with Coliseum scoring that heavily favors Mythic Heroes). Few specific gamemodes stand out on their own like Hall of Forms, which gives you potentially a lot of room to experiment with unit builds though it also gives you a good look at how overpowered some of the newer units are, especially when combined with higher stats. Tap Battles, while unengaging, can be a treat for those who enjoyed specific music tracks.

Staff units are largely stagnant as a unit type because the Weapon Refinery update in late 2017 made them too good -- Wrathful Staff and Dazzling Staff are a powerful skill combination, especially when combined with post-battle damage and/or movement debuffs or a myriad of other effects. Sure, there may be counters to them, but they're generally expensive (Null C-Disrupt) to get or replace (Mystic Boost).

Good:
Although the speed at which story chapters get introduced has not improved, the story writing at least has, especially for the characters' characters. Book 4, at the very least, seems to be doing a lot to make the characters interesting beyond character design. It's also interesting to note that they're having a celebration for reaching the Midpoint of Book 4 at the release of Chapter 8, which could imply that Book 4 may be longest book in FEH's story mode (Books 1, 2, and 3 are 13 chapters long each; Book 4 could be 15 or 16 chapters long). At the very least, we could hope that IS doesn't rush and end up putting together a cop-out ending to Book 4.

There is a greater variety of games being represented in FEH, even including characters from fellow FE spinoff, Tokyo Mirage Sessions#FE. However, this does come pretty much hand-in-hand with powercreep, especially with the aforementioned rampant powercreep that's been going on in Book 4 (which feels much more blatant with the Judgral units...). With Fire Emblem Cipher ending this year, perhaps the original characters from the Cipher TCG (ie. Emma, Shade, Yuzu, Randal), Warriors (ie. Rowan, Lianna), and the Hasha no Tsurugi manga (ie. Al, Tiena) may find themselves a new home in Askr.

Edited by Roflolxp54

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I'm quite pleased with the game & its generosity thanks to free orbs being so common...

...but the more recent units look like they will heavily force power creep, and look to be marketed as though they are concerned about their income, being obviously much stronger so that people will want to whale on them. 

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I'm generally happy with the game. There are some annoying things with Arena modes that I didn't care for early on, but now I'm getting invested in them. Obviously you should build your favorites, but for I have built some characters for the sake of the type of unit they are. I wanted to build a Brady as an Infantry healer, but Emmeryn just came out who is a direct upgrade of him statwise. Even if I merged the Bradys that I do have he would only be +6. On average, by the time I would get enough of a certain unit to high merge them, their powercreeper comes by. The 4* focus on banners helps with this, but in this case Emmeryn isn't a focus, so she'll probably be powercreept by the time I'm finished building her. Typically I try not to focus on that aspect of the game, but it is a thing. The best thing would be to clean up the summoning pool so I'm not greeted by all of those outdated units.

The powercreep of units that are added is pretty obnoxious at times. In competitive modes it's whatever, because there you will have heavily invested units any way, but it is pretty annoying in some of the single player content when you will need specific counters to some of the really strong units that can appear. In the last tempest trials I struggled when Lysithea, among others, wanted to appear. I try to use unique teams in tempest so that units that I don't use often can get some HM, but it gets difficult.

I'm not 100% aware of a new player's perspective of this game, but I can tell that it isn't too friendly. The Fortress system in AR only exists to hinder newer players, even when I was playing early on people would just prioritize upgrading their defense fort so non whales/heavy investors like me couldn't deal with the stat difference. Sacred seal acquisition must be pretty hard, since they need to buy them first then upgrade them, and they aren't getting to high tiers anytime soon as they start to play. IS has done somethings to help like the Heroes path, and having those unit reviews.

In this type of game you invest a combination of time and money, so a lot of changes are hindered by those factors. I dislike how gated somethings seem for new players, but obviously the time and effort spent by old players can't be ignored. The other thing is that Heroes struggles as its own game in a sense, since I've seen people upset at the OC characters, and the way the availability of older 5* units was handle. Those old characters aren't worth being 5* in the present day, but they were historically rare and some people probably spent lots of money to get them, simply demoting them seems like a kick in the face for those people, but I wouldn't know. What I'm trying to say here is that there is a disconnect between people wanting to collect and build their favorite units, and Heroes trying to do its own thing.

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On 6/6/2020 at 3:22 PM, XRay said:

Close Call and Repel makes Spd tanks more viable. Until Aether Raids and SK!Alm became a thing, there was little to no reason to use Spd tanks since they could not handle multiple rounds of combat per turn as well as slow Def/Res tanks

Repel and Close Call were a mistake how they were handled. high Spd units are allready offensiv powerhouses (if they have a decent attack stat). The effect is too strong makeing slow infantry tanks redundant, which imho isnt healthy for the game.

It should have come with a detriment offense cost or it should not work against specials (ecxept for AoE specials). Its basicly a mini Aegis/Pavise combined without the need to occupy the Special slot and run down the cooldown. Its a really dumb OP skill how it is now, and there is no reason to run any slow Infantry unit at all (unless your Brave Ike) when you have this skill at your disposal.

I am all for SPD tanks existing, but this is too excessiv.

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26 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Repel and Close Call were a mistake how they were handled. high Spd units are allready offensiv powerhouses (if they have a decent attack stat). The effect is too strong makeing slow infantry tanks redundant, which imho isnt healthy for the game.

It should have come with a detriment offense cost or it should not work against specials (ecxept for AoE specials). Its basicly a mini Aegis/Pavise combined without the need to occupy the Special slot and run down the cooldown. Its a really dumb OP skill how it is now, and there is no reason to run any slow Infantry unit at all (unless your Brave Ike) when you have this skill at your disposal.

I am all for SPD tanks existing, but this is too excessiv.

Slow Def/Res tanks have a much higher damage output since they can rely on being doubled to trigger a stronger Special. The only time they do not want to be doubled is when facing against SK!Alm and QOV!Celica since their damage output scales with slow tank's Def/Res.

Repel and Close Call also are less effective or simply do not work against fast enemies, and it is much easier to Spd stack Player Phase units than Enemy Phase units skill wise, although Enemy Phase units can offset some of that disadvantage via Drive stacking.

Personally, I think Lull Atk/Spd is a better generalist tanking skill since it works against everyone, whereas Repel and Close Call only work against slower enemies.

Edited by XRay

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On 6/8/2020 at 1:51 AM, XRay said:

Slow Def/Res tanks have a much higher damage output since they can rely on being doubled to trigger a stronger Special. The only time they do not want to be doubled is when facing against SK!Alm and QOV!Celica since their damage output scales with slow tank's Def/Res.

Repel and Close Call also are less effective or simply do not work against fast enemies, and it is much easier to Spd stack Player Phase units than Enemy Phase units skill wise, although Enemy Phase units can offset some of that disadvantage via Drive stacking.

Personally, I think Lull Atk/Spd is a better generalist tanking skill since it works against everyone, whereas Repel and Close Call only work against slower enemies.

thats so wrong on so many levels, i cant even fathom it. You can Spd stack an Enemy phase unit much much easier, which again makes Slow tanks redundant/less effectiv when compared with Fast Repell tanks. How you dont see how the skill as a whole for what it offers with no drawback isnt destructiv for the games health is beyond me. Neglecting or hurting a unit type class like slow Infantry tanks or mixed balanced infantry units further isnt a good choice.

The skill literally packs in 2 reduction based Specials without the need to ready those specials. All it needs is SPD to make it more effectiv. But yeah lets just throw gamebalance out the window even further.

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2 hours ago, Hilda said:

thats so wrong on so many levels, i cant even fathom it. You can Spd stack an Enemy phase unit much much easier, which again makes Slow tanks redundant/less effectiv when compared with Fast Repell tanks. How you dont see how the skill as a whole for what it offers with no drawback isnt destructiv for the games health is beyond me. Neglecting or hurting a unit type class like slow Infantry tanks or mixed balanced infantry units further isnt a good choice.

The skill literally packs in 2 reduction based Specials without the need to ready those specials. All it needs is SPD to make it more effectiv. But yeah lets just throw gamebalance out the window even further.

The defense team could just as easily take away those Drive buffs with Firesweep-Lunge/Drag Back.

Repel/Close Call is good, but it is not the end-all-be-all of B skills. It does nothing against faster units unless you are running Phantom Spd, and even then, Phantom Spd has its limits. Lull Atk/Spd in contrast works against everyone, and even if the enemy is not running buffs, foes are still getting two stats debuffed. Lull Atk/Spd truly has no conditions nor drawbacks, whereas Repel/Close Call does have conditions that it needs to fulfill in order for it to work.

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I don't like how little they come out with heroes tbh. Starting off the game was great and we got a new heroes banner like twice a month. I believe though we didn't get one when a special heroes banner appeared however. I think they focus on special heroes far too much and I think many characters who make their debut to the game as a special may never get their chance to shine as their own unique hero and that sucks. Something great they had was the farfetched (or whatever you want to call it) banner. We were essentially guaranteed the top characters who haven't made it to the game yet who are on the CYL poll. Special Heroes just need less focus and they should give more focus to New Heroes. I don't think there's even going to be a new heroes banner this coming month, which freaking blows.

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