Jump to content
TriforceLegend

How does my GD Maddening NG+ plan look?

Recommended Posts

Hello! First off, Fire Emblem Three Houses is my second Fire Emblem game, first being Awakening. That was 7+ years ago and I don't really remember too much about it and assume I played on normal difficulty, possibly hard, and most likely on casual mode. Bottom line is I would not consider myself to be a veteran of the series and I have not played any other tactical RPGs. When I started my first play-through with the Black Eagles I decided to try Hard mode (casual) and have been surprised at how easy it is. There have been a couple of spots where I had to re-think my strategy and unwind things via Divine Pulse, but overall I haven't had much trouble and have been playing as if on classic, trying to keep everyone alive. I've been able to play quite recklessly, rushing enemies, splitting my forces, etc. I didn't look up guides because I wanted to experience it on my own and my character paths are a mess and very sub-optimal. I haven't had to pay much attention to passives, supports, etc. It seems strange to me that there's an even easier difficulty!

So now I think I want to try maddening (NG+) on my next play-through with the Golden Deer house. I know I could do a 100% optimal group by not factoring characters I like/dislike, class variety, etc, but I do want to factor that in a bit as it's part of the enjoyment of the experience for me. So that being said, here's the group I've put together on paper. Looking for some comments on if it seems viable, any recommended adjustments (and why), etc. PLEASE NO SPOILERS! I'm on chapter 16 of my first play-through (will probably finish tomorrow) and am just doing some planning, but I haven't seen any of the endings and haven't seen any of the non-Black Eagle path stuff. Ok, so here it is:

Byleth (F) - Falcon Knight

Claude - Barbarossa

Lysithia - Gremory

Marianne - Dancer

Leonie - Bow Knight

Shamir (possibly Ignatz) - Sniper 

Petra - Wyvern Lord

Ferdinand - Wyvern Lord

Mercedes - Gremory

Felix - War Master

Yuri - Trickster

Constance - Dark Flier

 

With Raphael, Hilda, and Caspar being Guard adjutants, since it sounds like physical tanks aren't very good in Maddening. So...what do you think? Can I make it through Maddening with this group or am I setting myself up for failure? Thanks in advance!

 

-Johnny

 

Edited by TriforceLegend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TriforceLegend said:

Byleth (F) - Falcon Knight

Claude - Barbarossa

Lysithia - Gremory

Marianne - Dancer

Leonie - Bow Knight

Shamir (possibly Ignatz) - Sniper 

Petra - Wyvern Lord

Ferdinand - Wyvern Lord

Mercedes - Gremory

Felix - War Master

Yuri - Trickster

Constance - Dark Flier

Byleth- Not sure if you planned on class path, but I recommend during Advance class stage make her a wyvern. Other options you could do is stay as pegasus or assassin. 

Marianne- couple tips: once she has most of her basic skills/spells(physics, thoron, etc), start investing into riding to get +1 mov. Make sure you recruited a healer before you certify her/use her as dancer. Once she becomes a dancer, she won't be healing as often(not to mention the limited heal spells she'll have).

Petra/Ferdinand- I personally recommend you to choose one of them and replace the other with Hilda. It is better to have more in house units in preparation for ch 13.

Shamir- Use Ignatz. Same reason for Hilda. Need more units to use for ch 13. Rn you only have 3 available units you could use by turn 3 for ch 13(Byleth, Claude, and Leonie).

Mercedes- keep her as bishop. You lack healing. She isn't really meant to be an offensive mage anyways and her reason spell list sucks.

Yuri-Personally never found Trickster a good class. Imo sniper is the best class for him(will require more invest thou). Recommend to recruit early.

1 hour ago, TriforceLegend said:

With Raphael, Hilda, and Caspar being Guard adjutants, since it sounds like physical tanks aren't very good in Maddening.

Eh not sure where you got that, but imo physical tanks are better in maddening than in hard mode. Dedue makes early game AM more manageable. Even in endgame I'd argue they are okay. 

I recommend Alois instead of Caspar since he provides mt bonus to Leonie. Other options you could use instead of Caspar: Balthus(Hilda), Sylvain&Ingrid(Felix), or Catherine(Shamir).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the response!

re: Byleth, for my CF play I did Myrmidon -> Mercenary -> Swordmaster and then when the Enlightened One class became available I switched. Hadn’t planned it as I didn’t know it was coming. For the next play I planned to go Brigand/Pegasus Knight for their mastery abilities and then skip advanced classes to go straight into Falcon Knight.

I can’t cite the source for the comment on tanks, but what I’d read was that enemies can pretty much one shot everyone and that avoid tanking was the way to go. Is that not the case?

You mention the Mt bonus from Alois to Leonie... where does that bonus come from? I had only considered the class (And support level) of the adjutant to make them Guards and didn’t know that specific pairings had bonuses.

Lastly, I had planned on getting the movement bonus for Marianne and using Mercedes as my main healer. Why keep Mercedes as Bishop? Is going to Gremory not an upgrade as a healer? I kind of thought it was a neutral class that benefited both white and black mages. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About the only spoileriffic thing I would actually consider worth mentioning is exclusive to the Blue Lions, because you can lose a playable unit there.

3 minutes ago, TriforceLegend said:

Why keep Mercedes as Bishop? Is going to Gremory not an upgrade as a healer? I kind of thought it was a neutral class that benefited both white and black mages. 

Well, it is to a point, but Bishop has extra healing.

4 minutes ago, TriforceLegend said:

You mention the Mt bonus from Alois to Leonie... where does that bonus come from? I had only considered the class (And support level) of the adjutant to make them Guards and didn’t know that specific pairings had bonuses.

Linked attack bonuses. Some units, like Annette and Mercedes for example, get boosted might if the other is in a linked attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, TriforceLegend said:

You mention the Mt bonus from Alois to Leonie... where does that bonus come from? I had only considered the class (And support level) of the adjutant to make them Guards and didn’t know that specific pairings had bonuses.

You can check the info here: serenesforest.net/three-houses/miscellaneous/linked-attacks-gambit-boost/

To make the most of tour adjuntants, since you want them as guard type, the flying units would be adjuntant-less, leaving the following possible set-ups (I wrote in italics deployed characters):

  • Byleth (F) - Falcon Knight: No guard adjuntant. Extra damage with Claude/Yuri/Flayn.
  • Claude - Barbarossa: No guard adjuntant. Extra damage with Byleth/Hilda.
  • Petra - Wyvern Lord: No guard adjuntant.
  • Ferdinand - Wyvern Lord: No guard adjuntant. Extra damage with Lorenz.
  • Constance - Dark Flier: No guard adjuntant.
  • Lysithia - Gremory: No extra damage.
  • Marianne - Dancer: No extra damage.
  • Leonie - Bow Knight: Extra damage with Alois.
  • Sniper options:
    • Shamir - Sniper: Extra damage with Catherine.
    • Ignatz - Sniper: Extra damage with Raphael.
  • Mercedes - Gremory: Extra damage with Annette.
  • Felix - War Master: Extra damage with Sylvain/Ingrid.
  • Yuri - Trickster: Extra damage with Byleth.

Out of the possible guard adjuntants with bonus damage, the easiest ones to make are Alois and Raphael (either brawling or axe+armour), and to some extent Sylvain (he's already strong in axes to grab heavy armour D). Catherine requires a greater investment in axe+armour or in faith in case you want War Cleric (DLC), since she doesn't have a boon in either. Annette can pick up axes fairly easily, but she'll have a harder time in armour due to having a bane in it. Ingrid will require as much investment as Catherine in axe+armour and even more if you want her to go War Cleric, since she doesn't have either boon or starting rank in brawling. Outside the guard adjuntants, you can use Lorenz, Hilda and Flayn as attack adjuntants to Ferdinand, Claude and Byleth if you want the to deal extra damage. Hilda and Flayn are already good with lances and only require flying investment, while Lorenz will require more since he needs both axes and flying without a proficiency in either one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These all sound like good endgame choices for the units at your disposal. What I'd ask, though, is - what path are you planning to take each unit down. For example, Leonie - will you go Cavalier->Paladin en route to Bow Knight, or Archer->Sniper instead? And will you dip her into Pegasus Knight or Brigand, for the useful mastery skills they offer? I would consider adding a "class course" for each unit you have listed, to better evaluate how your plan will play out, especially in the early-to-midgame.

One more question - are you planning to recruit Bernadetta and/or Linhardt? They're needed for Petra's and Leonie's respective Paralogues, post-skip. Not to spoil too much, but the Leonhardt paralogue, in particular, gives a great reward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, TriforceLegend said:

re: Byleth, for my CF play I did Myrmidon -> Mercenary -> Swordmaster and then when the Enlightened One class became available I switched. Hadn’t planned it as I didn’t know it was coming. For the next play I planned to go Brigand/Pegasus Knight for their mastery abilities and then skip advanced classes to go straight into Falcon Knight.

Once you obtain the skills, class change into wyvern. You need to train in axe anyways and you prob have the flying rank to do so.

22 hours ago, TriforceLegend said:

I can’t cite the source for the comment on tanks, but what I’d read was that enemies can pretty much one shot everyone and that avoid tanking was the way to go. Is that not the case?

Early game everybody gets doubled and gets destroyed. I'd say this is the time where tanks shine. Personally, I think avoid tank is the best way to enemy phase end game. Ppl have diff opinions.

22 hours ago, TriforceLegend said:

Lastly, I had planned on getting the movement bonus for Marianne and using Mercedes as my main healer. Why keep Mercedes as Bishop? Is going to Gremory not an upgrade as a healer? I kind of thought it was a neutral class that benefited both white and black mages. 

@Shadow Mir mentioned it but Bishop has a class skill that gives you +10 more hp when healing. Gregory doesn't really provide anything for healing other than giving you more magic. The trade off is not worth it. Gremory is only worth using for units that are great offensive and utility. Ex. Lysithea.

Another tip, make Lysithea a bishop for advance class. Lysithea gains nothing from warlock because she uses dark magic. With Bishop you at least get another warp use and other more uses on other spells. Valkeryia is an option, but I only would do that if the end game class for her was Dark Knight instead of Gremory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To answer the question of class paths, here's what my full plan is (taking into account some recommendations above). I swapped Ignatz in place of Shamir, removed Warlock from Lysithea's path, and Gremory from Mercedes path. 

I'm still wondering if I should swap someone out for Hilda. From what I'm hearing it sounds like having a physical tank early is good so would a good plan be to have Hilda tank early with an armored class and then move into Wyvern Lord toward the endgame -maybe something like Fighter -> Armored Knight -> Wyvern Rider -> Wyvern Lord? And would Yuri be the one she should replace? Or should it be Ferdinand or Petra as I'll have a ton of fliers at that point (is that a liability to have so much weakness to archers)?

Lastly, regarding Byleth -why do I need to train in axes? I was going Falcon Knight intending to stick with swords because of the Sword of the Creator so I figured Falcon Knight was a better fit (although I haven't tried a sword-wielding Falcon Knight before). In fact, it's one of the reasons I wanted to go with female Byleth for this run. 

Still have to do some more research on adjutants as this thread has made me realize there's still a lot I don't know about how they work.

Thanks again for all the comments. This has been super helpful. I finished my BE run today and am excited to do this after I play through the side story!

1213956841_FE3HGDParty.thumb.png.18987631e0442c7a4a54c3513c23fb70.png

 

Edited by TriforceLegend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TriforceLegend said:

I'm still wondering if I should swap someone out for Hilda. From what I'm hearing it sounds like having a physical tank early is good so would a good plan be to have Hilda tank early with an armored class and then move into Wyvern Lord

Uh armor knight is really bad so I highly advise against this. Just put her in brigand/pegasus. If I had to choose, I'd choose Yuri. Personally, I just don't think Yuri is that good. He is like average at best. Also there is nothing wrong having too many fliers. You always can dismount and ignore bow weakness. If you are worried about too many fliers, you could also make Ferdinand a Palidan. He can become a swift strike player phase unit. (having Lorenz as guard adjutant can help).

1 hour ago, TriforceLegend said:

Lastly, regarding Byleth -why do I need to train in axes? I was going Falcon Knight intending to stick with swords because of the Sword of the Creator so I figured Falcon Knight was a better fit

Well you are planning on going brigand, and you need D+ to at least certify. And if you do plan on making her wyvern rider, you should invest until C so you can min certify(assuming you pass flying). You don't need to heavy invest thou. You should prob focus on lances thou cause Byleth is prob gonna use lances more than swords(cause lance faire).

For your class path:

As mentioned before, Bishop for Lysithea for advance class.

Petra can become wyvern rider for advance.

Have Felix and Ignatz become brigand instead of brawler/archer for DB. Unarm combat sucks and Ignatz has hit+20 already so DB would benefit him more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TriforceLegend said:

To answer the question of class paths, here's what my full plan is (taking into account some recommendations above). I swapped Ignatz in place of Shamir, removed Warlock from Lysithea's path, and Gremory from Mercedes path. 

I'm still wondering if I should swap someone out for Hilda. From what I'm hearing it sounds like having a physical tank early is good so would a good plan be to have Hilda tank early with an armored class and then move into Wyvern Lord toward the endgame -maybe something like Fighter -> Armored Knight -> Wyvern Rider -> Wyvern Lord? And would Yuri be the one she should replace? Or should it be Ferdinand or Petra as I'll have a ton of fliers at that point (is that a liability to have so much weakness to archers)?

Lastly, regarding Byleth -why do I need to train in axes? I was going Falcon Knight intending to stick with swords because of the Sword of the Creator so I figured Falcon Knight was a better fit (although I haven't tried a sword-wielding Falcon Knight before). In fact, it's one of the reasons I wanted to go with female Byleth for this run. 

Still have to do some more research on adjutants as this thread has made me realize there's still a lot I don't know about how they work.

Thanks again for all the comments. This has been super helpful. I finished my BE run today and am excited to do this after I play through the side story!

1213956841_FE3HGDParty.thumb.png.18987631e0442c7a4a54c3513c23fb70.png

Nice, this is just the sort of thing I was talking about. Love the formatting! Here are my thoughts:

Byleth could go Soldier first, to gain Reposition, which goes great on any mounted class. If you're trying to do Swords and Flying (but also need Lances for Falcon Knight), then there's no good Advanced option. Staying Pegasus will be your best option, unless you want to branch into axes for Wyvern Rider.

Claude could go Archer before/after Brigand. Hit +20 will help when attacking at 3-range with Failnaught or Longbows. You don't need to train his flying, unless you want a pre-skip wyvern and/or Alert Stance.

Lysithea: Warlock's not the worst, because even though the skills do mothing for her, she has the highest-possible Magic (pre-Gremory) and can get Bowbreaker. Bishop is probably better though, because double-warp. Either is preferable to staying in Mage.

Marianne probably won't have much time to spend as a Bishop before getting Dancer. I'd prioritize training up her swords (Sword Avoid +20 synergizes with Levin Sword and Blutgang) and riding (movement +1), maybe authority too, while mastering Mage.

Leonie sounds great. Darting Blow and Hit+20 are always welcome, and it'll be easy to get her Riding up. Point-Blank Volley is also stellar on an 8/9-move Bow Knight.

Ignatz should work well. If he's just using bows, he can just train Authority to get Rallies. If you want to maximize damage with Hunter's Volley, though, it might be worth mastering Brigand.

Petra is fine, but there's no reason not to go Wyvern Rider, assuming you've mastered both Intermediate classes before level 30.

Ferdinand looks good. If you want him using Swift Strikes, train up to A-Lances. Might be good to train in Armor, too, for Seal Speed, Weight -3, and 12 defense.

Bishop is probably Mercedes' best option. Gremory has wider range for spells, but at a cost of healing less. Priest is better when she's in it (for Healing +5), but Mage offers better mastery - maybe do both?

Sounds like a good course for Felix, but I would favor Brigand over Brawler. Death Blow works spectacularly with gauntlets (for up to 24 extra damage per round, before crits). Same with the Crest of Fraldarius.

I can't speak on the merits of Trickster, but if you want one, Yuri's built for it. Assassin is good too, for damage and movement, at the cost of magic access.

Haven't really used Constance, but this sounds like a natural setup for her.

That's all my assessment. Thanks for reading, and good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For Constance, I would recommend having her mastering Warlock before going into Dark Flier since she will be consistently be using black magic. Bowbreaker on a Dark Flier is a sure way to have her fly in more safely. Otherwise I think everything else looks pretty good. Having black magic range +1 is also a nice to have as well. Maybe magic +2 too if you want to combine it with fiendish blow for more raw damage potential.

It can also be a decent idea to have felix go from fighter, brigand, war monk, grappler then warmaster so you can get death blow, brawl avoid +20 and then the occasionally useful tomebreaker and then quick riposte. Strength +2 and Death Blow is also a nice combo for that +8 attack in addition to having that 20 avoid too. I know it's a little overkill but it's a good filler ability especially when being engaged on enemy phase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just finished up with the DLC story the other day and found Constance to be a bit annoying (sorry Constance fans) so I decided to slot Hapi in her place (as Valkyrie, not Dark Flier). I really liked the shenanigans you could pull off with Yuri's relic and Foul Play so I'm also keeping him in the group. Side note: Holy crap was the DLC HARD! Nothing like Hard mode in the main game.

Anyway, I'm 3 chapters in on my GD run and have just been low-manning the missions in order to utilize all three adjutant spots for the in-house characters I need to level up, but don't want to actually use in my core group (Hilda, Lorenz, and Raph). This seemed to be a good way to maximize XP by doubling up. Plan is to do that until the time-skip and then swap Lorenz out for another guard, like Balthus or Caspar. So far things have been pretty easy, but have required more care. I put it on Casual, but I've been playing as though deaths are permanent and so far no one has died. Granted it's NG+, but it feels like a good step in the right direction that's forcing me to think about game mechanisms I completely ignored on Hard mode. Perhaps I'll do a true Maddening run with BL next.

All of these tips have been extremely helpful, so thanks! I do have one more question. Which characters are important to level up in Heavy Armor for the -3 Weight ability? Should I do it for all of my fliers, and Felix, as they'll be the most likely to be avoid tanks later in the game? I assume it's not worth doing on my archers and mages, whom I'll be doing my best to keep out of enemy range, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TriforceLegend said:

Which characters are important to level up in Heavy Armor for the -3 Weight ability? Should I do it for all of my fliers, and Felix, as they'll be the most likely to be avoid tanks later in the game

I don't find that weight -3 is particularly useful. There are a lot of good skills that you want to prioritize above that like hit +20, death/darting blow, and the prowess skills just to name a few. You probably won't do a lot of dodge tanking either, and there are better skills to use than weight-3 for the characters that can anyway. If you're doing ng+ can't you just get basically every skill with every unit though?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, samthedigital said:

You probably won't do a lot of dodge tanking either

Why is that? I've heard physical tanking at the endgame doesn't work because everyone can basically be OHKO'd anyway. How do you pull enemies without dodge tanking?

47 minutes ago, samthedigital said:

If you're doing ng+ can't you just get basically every skill with every unit though?

No, you can only use renown to purchase skills previously learned by that character. In my case, everyone is either a character I haven't used before or taking a totally different path. I hadn't looked up anything prior to my first run and mastered a bunch of useless classes and just did what I thought sounded interesting. Luckily hard mode was a joke and it didn't matter, but I didn't set myself up to get the advantage of being able to purchase skills in an NG+ run.

Edited by TriforceLegend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, TriforceLegend said:

Why is that? I've heard physical tanking at the endgame doesn't work because everyone can basically be OHKO'd anyway. How do you pull enemies without dodge tanking?

In a pinch Impregnable Wall works, but everyone being one rounded is a bit of an exaggeration. Dodge tanks and units with high defense can lure some enemies, but it's probably not a good idea for a unit to take on a lot of enemies on enemy phase unless they're built specifically for that purpose. A lot of the work is done on player phase; you want to make sure that your units can not be countered by making sure that enemies are dead or otherwise incapacitated.

Quote

Luckily hard mode was a joke and it didn't matter, but I didn't set myself up to get the advantage of being able to purchase skills in an NG+ run.

I would have suggested you play NG instead of NG+ in that case. You can still purchase some weapon ranks and professor levels I'd imagine, but if you are familiar with the mechanics and battalions in general Maddening is not that hard. It's also fairly easy to get a high professor rank early on even though it's tedious.

Edited by samthedigital

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, TriforceLegend said:

Which characters are important to level up in Heavy Armor for the -3 Weight ability? Should I do it for all of my fliers, and Felix, as they'll be the most likely to be avoid tanks later in the game? I assume it's not worth doing on my archers and mages, whom I'll be doing my best to keep out of enemy range, right?

The Weight-3 ability is useful for speedy characters with heavy weapons or magic. It comes with the added benefit of being able to certify as an armour knight and getting an early boost in Def and possibly in HP. If the character is proficent in axes, I'd strongly consider it. However, if the character has a weakness in heavy armour, it might take too much effort that'd better go into authority. Otherwise, the Speed+2 from the myrmidon class can be more useful. Out of your listed characters, I'd say that Claude, Ferdinand, Petra and Felix could benefit from it, due to developing in classes that use axes, which may allow them to get 3-4 points of base Def. Ferdinand would also get an interesting skill along the way. You should still think on your final skillset for each of your characters, as W-3 may be redundant or not fit into it.

By seeing your team and development, I'd use these sets during the game. They'd be filled in order, then switched out when new skills are acquired. I'm not going out of the way you set for the characters unless there's somthing I'd like to remark. Also, I'm not adding NG+ skills.

Spoiler
  • Byleth: Set to use only swords or swords and lances (he'll get a high lance skill to become a Falcoknight and Lancefaire in that class). Since you'll be using like four-five flyers, you can get use of the Triangle Attack ocasionally.
    • Sword Prowess
    • HP+5 >>> Lance Prowess/Axebreaker
    • Speed+2
    • Defense+2 (if soldier is mastered) >>> Darting Blow
    • Death Blow
      • Two of Wrath Strike/Bane of Monsters/Windsweep/Triangle Attack
      • Reposition (if soldier is mastered)/Swap
  • Claude: Mainly an archer, that might use axes as well.
    • Bow Prowess
    • HP+5 >>> (Axe Prowess)/Hit+20 (if going through archer as well)
    • Strength+2
    • Death Blow
    • Close Counter
      • Curved Shot
      • Monster Blast/Smash (if using axes)
      • Encloser
  • Lysithea: She gets a great set of WM spells so WMP can be useful in certain maps. Going through myrmidon she can get Speed+2, and Soulblade can help her going through that.
    • Dark Magic Prowess
    • White Magic Prowess
    • HP+5 >>> Speed+2 (if going through myrmidon after mastering her hidden talent)
    • Magic+2
    • Fiendish Blow
      • Soulblade
      • Wrath Strike
      • Draw Back
  • Marianne: She can be using either swords or black magic offensively, so she could benefit from either Prowess skill.
    • Sword Prowess
    • Black Magic Prowess
    • HP+5 >>> Special Dance
    • Magic+2
    • Fiendish Blow
      • Soulblade
      • Sword Dance
      • Draw Back
  • Leonie: She could be using lances and bows either permanently or temporarily.
    • Bow Prowess
    • Lance Prowess
    • HP+5 >>> Hit+20
    • Defense+2 >>> Close Counter
    • Darting Bow
      • Curved Shot/Break Shot (whichever you prefer, they increase range, but differ in damage and accuracy)
      • Tempest Lance >>> Monster Piercer >>> Lance Jab
      • Point-Blank Volley
  • Ignatz: Getting a mobility art (other than Shove) can also be useful. He can also become a Rally-bot with Rally Speed/Dexterity/Strength.
    • Bow Prowess
    • HP+5 >>> Death Blow (if mastered Brigand)
    • Strength+2
    • Hit+20
    • Close Counter
      • Curved Shot
      • Break Shot
      • Ward Arrow
  • Petra: Lancebreaker is situational, so having a secondary weapon type (like bows), wouldn't hurt either.
    • Axe Prowess
    • HP+5 >>> Lancebreaker
    • Strength+2
    • Death Blow
    • Darting Blow
      • Smash
      • Curved Shot (it's easy and fast for her, and she'd get a 3-range attack)
      • Triangle Attack (unless you like any other axe art for her)
  • Ferdinand: Ferdinand would need to focus on two weapons, just because his Swift Strikes is just too good to be overviewed.
    • Axe Prowess
    • Lance Prowess
    • HP+5 >>> Swordbreaker/Lancebreaker
    • Strength+2
    • Death Blow
      • Tempest Lance >>> Swift Strikes
      • Smash >>> Armored Strike
      • Free
  • Felix: I don't think he'd get to use many offensive combat arts outside Curved Shot (for extra range like Petra), and he could really benefit from movement skills like Draw Back.
    • Brawling Prowess
    • Axe Prowess
    • HP+5 >>> Tomebreaker/Lancebreaker >>> Quick Riposte
    • Strength+2
    • Death Blow
      • Nimble Combo
      • Curved Shot
      • Healing Focus
  • Mercedes: She'd be mainly on healing duty, so her skillset should focus on avoid being attacked, but she doesn't get many skills to do so. You could also set WMP instead of BMP to get +20 Avoid when equipping a non-Nosferatu white spell (Nosferatu is heavy and she'd be doubled).
    • Black Magic Prowess/White Magic Prowess
    • HP+5
    • Magic+2
    • Fiendish Blow (just in case, it's better than Miracle anyway)
    • Renewal (not that useful due her personal skill, but there's nothing best to offer)
      • Draw Back
      • Free
      • Free
  • Yuri: I don't have much experience with him, but this would be my setting for him. The last skill would depend on the map. Steal can be useful in a few maps to get the Aurora/Kadmos/Lampos shields (even if they're dropped afterwards, you'd be getting and advantage to use effective weapons). Close Counter depends on whether you use bows a lot or not. Lethality is unreliable, but when it triggers, it just can be a lifesaver (and you have that free slot anyway). Axebreaker can help depending on the map (it's situational).
    • Sword Prowess
    • Bow Prowess
    • HP+5 >>> Duelist Blow
    • Speed+2
    • Steal/Lethality/Close Counter/Axebreaker >>> Hit+20 (if getting archer along the way)
      • Wrath Strike >>> Finesse Blade
      • Curved Shot
      • Deadeye (this art gets mixed reviews since you lose accuracy with range; however, if you master archer, it gets better)/Windsweep (if you'd rather focus on swords)
  • Constance/Hapi: Both can take a similar path, and since both have a boon in flying (and neutral lances), they can get the pegasus knight class for darting blow.
    • Black/Dark Magic Prowess
    • HP+5 >>> Uncanny Blow (if mastered Valkyrie)
    • Magic+2
    • Fiendish Blow
    • Darting Blow
      • Draw Back
      • Triangle Attack (if in a flyer class)
      • Free

I haven't accounted for S-rank weapon skills, but if you get them, I'd say you equip the Magic Range+1 immediately. The Crit+10 would depend on how much you rely on critical hits to trigger and Faire skills would likely replace the Strength/Magic+2 skills or the secondary weapon Prowess.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, paladin21 said:

The Weight-3 ability is useful for speedy characters with heavy weapons or magic. It comes with the added benefit of being able to certify as an armour knight and getting an early boost in Def and possibly in HP. If the character is proficent in axes, I'd strongly consider it. However, if the character has a weakness in heavy armour, it might take too much effort that'd better go into authority. Otherwise, the Speed+2 from the myrmidon class can be more useful.

Weight -3 is not very useful. Speed +2 is basically always more useful, and instances where weight -3 would help are limited anyway. Units are often using combat arts or can kill with lighter weapons, and doubling thresholds are spread apart between class types, so it limits the usefulness of the skill further. It doesn't help that there isn't any reason to train in Heavy Armour much anyway given that the skill and class choices aren't good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, samthedigital said:

Weight -3 is not very useful. Units are often using combat arts or can kill with lighter weapons, and doubling thresholds are spread apart between class types, so it limits the usefulness of the skill further.

It doesn't help that there isn't any reason to train in Heavy Armour much anyway given that the skill and class choices aren't good.

It takes 25 Strength to not get weighed down by a basic Iron Sword. At pretty much every point in the game, Weight -3 is going to be a relavant skill. 

Even if a unit wanted to equip a Training Weapon for extra AS, it'd still be useful in preventing units from getting weighed down by Shields and help out their durability by a substancal amount.

On top of that, it allows unit with C Axes to take the Armor Knight Certifaction. That gives any unit a base 12 Defense regardless of how bad their defense was previously in any class of their choosing. 

The Armor Classes may be pretty bad in this game, but the skill is most certainly worth investing in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, samthedigital said:

Weight -3 is not very useful. Speed +2 is basically always more useful, and instances where weight -3 would help are limited anyway.

Speed+2 is quite direct, but you need to spend time in a beginner class to get, which can affect your character performance. Late game, Weight-3 gets obsolete for lighter weapons, but can still be useful for hevier weapons and magic in general, since spells can become quite heavy and not every mage is Lysithea to knock everybody out with one hit. And, unless you certify for physical classes, none of your dedicated mages are going to reach 15 Str anytime soon, with specifically Lysithea and Marianne struggling to get above 10. That's the reason I recommend raising their rank in swords to certify as myrmidon/thief/(trickster)/swordmaster, and raise their base Str (and maybe other stats).

6 hours ago, samthedigital said:

Units are often using combat arts or can kill with lighter weapons, and doubling thresholds are spread apart between class types, so it limits the usefulness of the skill further.

Just as it limits Speed+2. That's the reason I said that it depends on the unit and the benefit it may take from it. Like @LoneRecon400 said, it requires 25 Strength to not be slowed down by an iron sword if you're not equiping anything else with weight. From Str 15 on, both skills are equally useful, netting you an AS+2 (you'd be losing 1 AS from Weight-3 for being too strong). However, if you use lances, you need 20 Str for Spd+2 to be as relevant as Weight-3, and 25 Str for axes, which can fall into late game.

Sometimes you may not even be able to rely on Combat Arts and light weapons to kill the targets, and it might happen for 1 AS, being that the difference between killing the opponent and not.

7 hours ago, samthedigital said:

It doesn't help that there isn't any reason to train in Heavy Armour much anyway given that the skill and class choices aren't good.

Even if the classes aren't that good, armour knight can give you 3-5 points of base Def, wich can be worth around ten levels. It isn't that difficult to get to D for neutral units, and if they already use axes, there's no reason not to do it. You don't even have to use the class anyway.

Now, getting heavy armor past C rank is something I would advise against. Smite at B and Weight-5 require too much investment that'd better go on weapons and authority. But getting to D rank for any axe user not named Raphael or Dedue (who can get 12 Def before being able to certify for AK), is far from being useless. and the Weight-3 can still find some uses and it's not that big of an investment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

It takes 25 Strength to not get weighed down by a basic Iron Sword. At pretty much every point in the game, Weight -3 is going to be a relavant skill. 

Even if a unit wanted to equip a Training Weapon for extra AS, it'd still be useful in preventing units from getting weighed down by Shields and help out their durability by a substancal amount.

On top of that, it allows unit with C Axes to take the Armor Knight Certifaction. That gives any unit a base 12 Defense regardless of how bad their defense was previously in any class of their choosing. 

The Armor Classes may be pretty bad in this game, but the skill is most certainly worth investing in.

Agreed. Wt -3 increases most units' AS and avoid more than Speed +2 can throughout your run. The only reasons to run Spd +2 instead of Wt -3 is if the unit has Lance Jab, which scales on Speed, or if the unit is already strong enough not to suffer penalties from weapons (brawling units for example).

Every unit has options better than armour to spend time in, and Great Knight (with its high certification requirements) is the only one that's remotely usable in combat. But if you do end up getting a unit with Wt -5 (and I'm not recommending that you train armour to A+ for that exact purpose, this is only if you happen to get there naturally) you'll find that combined with Strength boosts/growths from armoured classes, they suffer no AS/avoid penalty for every weapon, (though potentially a heavy weapon and a heavy shield might be too much). 

21 hours ago, samthedigital said:

You probably won't do a lot of dodge tanking either

This is just not true.

Or at least, I found that without ridiculously slow tactics like turtling, dodge tanks have to be employed on Maddening. I'm not a fan of them because Fire Emblem is one of those cursed series where enemies will kill you with 10% hit rates and you'll miss a kill with a 90% hit rate far more often than seems likely, but some missions all but demand them. Sometimes turtling isn't even an option because you can't protect your squishy units from Pass/fliers/archers/ambushes - dodge tanks aren't perfect, but you ought to develop at least a couple because they make many maps a lot easier.

You won't develop a serious def tank outside of Dedue until the late game - I actually managed it with Sylvain by running him through Fortress and GK to get Pavise and Wt -5, and then gave him Aegis Shield and a high-Prt battalion. But even then Sylvain regularly takes damage from any unit that doesn't use swords or fists - dodge-tanking is the way to go, and can be utilised much earlier on Maddening than def-tanking. 

I also use predominantly player phase tactics, but there are so many enemies on Maddening, and reinforcements move on the turn they arrive, so it can be very tough to bait selectively and not die. So having someone reliably dodge things is often the best way to ensure that you can have a profitable player phase, otherwise you end up overwhelmed in your player phase or with casualties

On 6/7/2020 at 6:16 PM, TriforceLegend said:

Yuri - Trickster

I've just done a Maddening run, and can safely assure you that Assassin is better than Trickster for Yuri. Yuri has a weird spell list which seems quite attack-oriented but is fairly useless on its own - the spells are only good when they double because Yuri's mag growths are so-so, and while Yuri himself gets some of the best speed in the game, you aren't doubling anything that has a sword or flies pretty much ever. And you faster primary mages (i.e. Constance) will be able to double the enemies Yuri can double with magic, so he doesn't add anything except Silence which is situational.

8 hours ago, paladin21 said:
  • Sword Prowess
  • Bow Prowess
  • HP+5 >>> Duelist Blow
  • Speed+2
  • Steal/Lethality/Close Counter/Axebreaker >>> Hit+20 (if getting archer along the way)
    • Wrath Strike >>> Finesse Blade
    • Curved Shot
    • Deadeye (this art gets mixed reviews since you lose accuracy with range; however, if you master archer, it gets better)/Windsweep (if you'd rather focus on swords)

I also can't recommend this - Yuri should have Curved Shot as a reliable way to hit threes, but he shouldn't seriously invest in Bows unless he's going for Sniper and Hunter's Volley. Deadeye is all but useless on Maddening - Yuri has good hit but even Hit +20 won't allow him to hit consistently further than Curved Shot. My Yuri build was as follows:

Skills: Sword Prowess, Axebreaker, Lethality, Poison Strike, Vantage. CAs: Curved Shot, Finesse Blade, Windsweep (and Assassinate). Stick his Relic on him if you don't want to give it to Dancer Marianne, but otherwise a Crit/Evasion Ring is nice.

As you can see I ran Yuri through Dark Mage - it isn't hard for him, and Poison Strike adds some much needed bite to his attacks. Lethality is worth a skill slot because why not, but Duelist's Blow is pretty useless (it was fun in CS, but it won't stop anyone who was already gonna hit a sword user from hitting, and it makes little sense to boost player phase avoidance in general).Vantage isn't necessary at all, because with his relic and his speed stat we're hoping never to sink below 50% health on enemy phase, but is there just in case he can crit someone before they kill him.

Replacement skills can be HP +5/ Str +2 (Yuri wants help for Strength mainly, but HP/Def/Res as well, because if something gets through his dodge-tanking past midgame he's gonna die). Yuri is also a great candidate for Wt -3, and because of his low strength it finds immediate utility in increasing his avoidance (you should expect 70+ avoidance from him by endgame). If you can get Sword Crit +10/Swordfaire then definitely use the remaining slot on those in the late-game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

I also can't recommend this - Yuri should have Curved Shot as a reliable way to hit threes, but he shouldn't seriously invest in Bows unless he's going for Sniper and Hunter's Volley. Deadeye is all but useless on Maddening - Yuri has good hit but even Hit +20 won't allow him to hit consistently further than Curved Shot.

Like I said, I don't have much experience with Yuri, and what I wrote was from a theory point of view, so I appreciate your comments about Deadeye in particular and everything about Yuri in general. Having that in mind, I had placed Windsweep as an alternate art. The whole point was having an art to reliably avoid being countered.

9 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

As you can see I ran Yuri through Dark Mage - it isn't hard for him, and Poison Strike adds some much needed bite to his attacks.

I would have done that as well, but I mostly stuck to the class progression @TriforceLegend posted. I think Poison Strike can be good on not-so-heavy hitters, like Yuri or Ignatz.

13 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Lethality is worth a skill slot because why not, but Duelist's Blow is pretty useless (it was fun in CS, but it won't stop anyone who was already gonna hit a sword user from hitting, and it makes little sense to boost player phase avoidance in general).

I see your point, and I was thinking about the extra avoid as an additional countermeasure for when his Crest wouldn't trigger, but Lethality in its place is a solid choice.

21 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Replacement skills can be HP +5/ Str +2 (Yuri wants help for Strength mainly, but HP/Def/Res as well, because if something gets through his dodge-tanking past midgame he's gonna die).

Yes, totally agree with the Str+2, and taking a level in bows lets you certify for Fighter. However, I use HP+5 mainly as a filler until I get better skills later on, like I do with Def+2 (as Res+2 is lord-locked and no one use it in my teams).

26 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Vantage isn't necessary at all, because with his relic and his speed stat we're hoping never to sink below 50% health on enemy phase, but is there just in case he can crit someone before they kill him.

I wouldn't actually invest into Vantage, since most of the time he doesn't have enough power to kill before being killed. I'd use him as a sneak attacker, using swords and bows to hit the enemy from beyond out of their range (or maybe magic, but he lacks a 1-3 range spell, and as a Trickster he wouldn't actually have that many charges). This makes me question myself why I placed Duelist Blow there.

42 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Yuri is also a great candidate for Wt -3, and because of his low strength it finds immediate utility in increasing his avoidance (you should expect 70+ avoidance from him by endgame).

Yes, if instead going myrmidon for the Spd+2, he goes fighter for the Str+2, that'd totally work.

38 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

If you can get Sword Crit +10/Swordfaire then definitely use the remaining slot on those in the late-game.

I'm totally with you here. However, it also depends on how Yuri is intended to be used, either as a finisher or as a chipper, since the former would benefit from using only one weapon type, and the latter from using two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, paladin21 said:

Like I said, I don't have much experience with Yuri, and what I wrote was from a theory point of view, so I appreciate your comments about Deadeye in particular and everything about Yuri in general. Having that in mind, I had placed Windsweep as an alternate art. The whole point was having an art to reliably avoid being countered.

I would have done that as well, but I mostly stuck to the class progression @TriforceLegend posted. I think Poison Strike can be good on not-so-heavy hitters, like Yuri or Ignatz.

I see your point, and I was thinking about the extra avoid as an additional countermeasure for when his Crest wouldn't trigger, but Lethality in its place is a solid choice.

Yeah sorry if I sounded aggressive before. I agree that whatever Yuri does, he doesn't want any counters.

5 minutes ago, paladin21 said:

I wouldn't actually invest into Vantage, since most of the time he doesn't have enough power to kill before being killed. I'd use him as a sneak attacker, using swords and bows to hit the enemy from beyond out of their range (or maybe magic, but he lacks a 1-3 range spell, and as a Trickster he wouldn't actually have that many charges). This makes me question myself why I placed Duelist Blow there.

11 minutes ago, paladin21 said:

I'm totally with you here. However, it also depends on how Yuri is intended to be used, either as a finisher or as a chipper, since the former would benefit from using only one weapon type, and the latter from using two

Yeah Vantage was wasted on Yuri. I ran him through Mercenary in my midgame hoping to give him some bulk, which didn't pan out. In terms of the spell/range thing, Yuri should be carrying around a Levin Sword+ regardless of build. His magic isn't amazing, but he can still do his dodgetank thing with it, and it did better than Rapier+ against armours/cavs throughout the game (Rapier+ is great though). 

I found (having trained his Bows to B) that bows just weren't that helpful. Curved Shot with a Mini Bow+ is basically all he needs as an assassin - it will hit without Bow Prowess, and although it can't double from one space, I found its higher crit and not needing a skill slot for Close Counter worth the sacrifice on the rare occasion where Yuri had to have an enemy phase after using Curved Shot. In the first place, Curved Shot was a safety mechanism for if/when Levin Sword+ didn't hit, and I suppose Bow Prowess is useful in that every little helps. But the sword skills benefit Yuri (I think more tangibly) by enhancing Windsweep/dodgetanking - Yuri has great crit, but even his crits don't kill Maddening enemies late-game. While I suppose after a certain threshold it doesn't matter how much chip damage you do, that threshold is quite variable - I'd prefer to maximise Yuri's sword output (regardless of whether it ends up killing or not) rather than spend that skill slot increasing a Curved Shot hit by 8 or 10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, paladin21 said:

Sometimes you may not even be able to rely on Combat Arts and light weapons to kill the targets, and it might happen for 1 AS, being that the difference between killing the opponent and not.

It's rare for this particular scenario to be the case for reasons listed above. It might help for a handful of enemies on a map, but other solutions will always exist too, and there are many more skills that are always going to be useful compared to Weight -3.

1 hour ago, haarhaarhaar said:

This is just not true.

Or at least, I found that without ridiculously slow tactics like turtling, dodge tanks have to be employed on Maddening. I'm not a fan of them because Fire Emblem is one of those cursed series where enemies will kill you with 10% hit rates and you'll miss a kill with a 90% hit rate far more often than seems likely, but some missions all but demand them. Sometimes turtling isn't even an option because you can't protect your squishy units from Pass/fliers/archers/ambushes - dodge tanks aren't perfect, but you ought to develop at least a couple because they make many maps a lot easier.

With good gambit usage and management it's rare that a unit has to take on more than one enemy at a time, and at worst if no unit can deal with enemies  Impregnable Wall works as I mentioned earlier. Enemies move in groups, so luring a single enemy is usually sufficient. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, samthedigital said:

With good gambit usage and management it's rare that a unit has to take on more than one enemy at a time, and at worst if no unit can deal with enemies  Impregnable Wall works as I mentioned earlier. Enemies move in groups, so luring a single enemy is usually sufficient.

I agree that Impregnable Wall is a brilliant gambit for this, but getting overwhelmed happens a lot in Part I, especially with the early game and the first few paralogues you do. Even once your units get good battalions/charm stats (and dodge-tanking gets better), there are still lots of occasions where enemies are spread out enough, tough enough and mobile enough to overwhelm you. Edelgard's paralogue or Petra's paralogue are good examples (in fairness Edelgard's paralogue is rough full stop). If you are ever attacked from multiple fronts (which happens at least sometimes on Maddening) then only having multiple Impregnable Wall users will save you. And offensive gambits don't solve everything, because some tough units will have high enough charm (or you'll have too low a charm stat) to reliably hit enemies. 

I guess in theory it's possible to play the game on Maddening without anyone being a dodge tank, and NG+ will make that more possible (especially with its supply of battalions for the early game). But not using high-avoidance units on a Maddening run sounds more like a challenge run than a normal tactic, at least because you are frequently not in a position where you can protect your softer units if the enemy is within range on their phase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Yeah sorry if I sounded aggressive before. I agree that whatever Yuri does, he doesn't want any counters.

It's not that you sounded aggresive, but I didn't think I had made my point of view clear enough. I wrote quite a post there, and I didn't go with much detail through all of the characters.

During my playthroughs, Deadeye had been somewhat useful for me with both Bernardetta and Ashe. It would deal more damage than Curved shot at 3 range, and if needed, it could get greater reach. Since I used them as chippers before my main units would go in to finish the enemy off, I found its utility good enough to propose it. However, I always relied on Hit+20 and Bow Prowess for it to work, otherwise it's a terrible waste.

18 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Yeah Vantage was wasted on Yuri. I ran him through Mercenary in my midgame hoping to give him some bulk, which didn't pan out. In terms of the spell/range thing, Yuri should be carrying around a Levin Sword+ regardless of build. His magic isn't amazing, but he can still do his dodgetank thing with it, and it did better than Rapier+ against armours/cavs throughout the game (Rapier+ is great though). 

I found (having trained his Bows to B) that bows just weren't that helpful. Curved Shot with a Mini Bow+ is basically all he needs as an assassin - it will hit without Bow Prowess, and although it can't double from one space, I found its higher crit and not needing a skill slot for Close Counter worth the sacrifice on the rare occasion where Yuri had to have an enemy phase after using Curved Shot. In the first place, Curved Shot was a safety mechanism for if/when Levin Sword+ didn't hit, and I suppose Bow Prowess is useful in that every little helps. But the sword skills benefit Yuri (I think more tangibly) by enhancing Windsweep/dodgetanking - Yuri has great crit, but even his crits don't kill Maddening enemies late-game. While I suppose after a certain threshold it doesn't matter how much chip damage you do, that threshold is quite variable - I'd prefer to maximise Yuri's sword output (regardless of whether it ends up killing or not) rather than spend that skill slot increasing a Curved Shot hit by 8 or 10.

Yeah, I suppose we have different approaches here, since I'd be using bows more often than you, but I'd give him a Levin+ for sure, like I do to every mixed character I get (like Ingrid or Manuela). However, reaching B in bows would make Yuri eligible for a Magic Bow/Magic Bow+ as well. Did you try using him that way? I think it would be useful for Wyverns at least. I used Mercedes with bows instead black magic in a run, and if she attacked, she would wreck havoc (she's way stronger magically anyway).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...