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The direction of FEH with Limited Hero and Resonant Battles

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So a change was made to the Limited Legendary Hero Battle, where the enemies on the map retain their original stats and they added Abyssal difficulty. I was able to beat the map with my +10 Linus, Brave Lyn (who stopped being freely available), and others. But, that bares the question of how they expect the general player base to clear this kind of content. On any other map you could use Reinhart, or some other nukes with a bunch of dancers, but the limited hero battles nerf that. They even release the hardest of the limited hero battles last, so you have less time to figure out a solution.

I'm guessing they expect people to invest more into a variety of units rather than just building their favorites and niche picks. Even the new game mode Resonant Battles wants you to use units from a variety of games. On new hero banners you're guaranteed at least one new unit after 135 orbs, and you get around 300 orbs per month. Then there are tempest and GHB units.

The rewards from both of those game modes include Divine Codes, which you can use to get more premium skills. Therefore you won't have to summon as often for those skills, and the new units that come out will have a bunch of premium skills anyway. Since, the rewards are kind of underwhelming you could easily not care for either of the game modes much, but it is kind of weird. I wouldn't say that you are encouraged to spend much for these game modes, but also why are the rewards not great for needing to spend a lot to score high in Resonant Battles and have the versatility for the Abyssal Limited Legendary Hero Battle? These maps provide some challenge without gate keeping too good of any rewards.

So what do you think about the direction heroes has been going with these game modes? Technically as some one who hordes a lot of units and has a good variety anyways, I don't find these game mode very difficult, but I know not everyone plays the way that I do. Another thing is that maybe they are trying to push you into learning about other games and characters more, especially for new players to the series. Stuff like forging bonds and meet the heroes help you to learn more about characters you may not know about. Now you care more about those characters, build them up, and they provide game modes for you to use them?

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I don't like it at all. I'm not cool with deployment restrictions in general.

 

On the flip side, at least the rewards for these modes are on the low end (though I think that Resonant Battles should have feathers added, because one can never have too many).

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Not a fan of Limited Hero Battles, as new players need a bigger pile of Feathers and Grails as an emergency buffer to get any free unit and promote them 5* to follow free guides.

Not a huge fan of adding another weekly competitive mode as that simply further accelerates the increasing resource gap between new players and veterans. As for the mode itself though, it is pretty nice in that it is different from other weekly competitive modes, and you can also just copy free guides to get the guaranteed 310 scoring. It also faces the same issue as Limited Hero battles in that players need to conserve a bigger pile of resources to follow free guides.

Edited by XRay

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Those kind of things like restricting heroes deployment is what I call "cheap difficulty" in video games. It is generally done by handicapping the players instead of fixing the game itself to be harder. It DOES works, but it also kills the enjoyment of the players since you are very restrained.

The worse part that in Limit Hero Battles' case, it's very inconsistent and varies between each player. For example, I literally cannot do the battle against Julius even on hard difficulty. The only five stars Sacred stones I have is Halloween Myrrh and Amelia, both unmerged with no fancy premium skills on them. All the others have been turned into combat manuals already. I tried to use a 4 star Cormag base kit and a level 1 4 star Tethys and it didn't help in the slightest. I would have been successful if not for all the reinforcements. I cannot waste feathers for this game mode, I have enough feathers to waste for merges for my favorites and arena core.

Expecting players to invest in a variety of units is NOT how you play this game. You either invest in your favorites or units that you need for a specific reason (Arena, AR, etc). You will never invest in a unit because he/she comes from a specific game.

Resonant battles is not that bad, we are going to lose points for not using 4 heroes of the two titles but you already lose points if you don't plan to summon for HH. The gamemode is super easy once you figured how to cheese it.

The funniest part is they restricted dancers on the one gamemode that is just P vs E, yet didn't touch on AR defense teams.

Edited by Nym

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They should have let duo units be used to increase score although with the hindrance of only applying to one game instead of two. The gameplay itself is fun despite being short. 

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I like deployment restrictions. I have almost 400 unique 5* units by now, I want to keep more than the strongest of them significant. I don't expect this to affect my summoning much, although it does increase my interest in rounding out my dancer roster with Phina and Larum. Mostly it's just a reason to give some units that have been sitting on the sidelines a while some more skills and time in the spotlight.

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People complain that the game's PVE content isn't challenging enough, then complain that they can't beat the new thing. Only issue I think is that the Limited Hero Battles aren't around long enough, and ideally they should be permanently available.

Much of the game's biggest issues revolve around preying on people's FOMO, whether that's not getting a high enough score, not summoning the hero you want, or making you want to collect every last reward, regardless of how badly you actually want them or how boring they can be to get. This isn't any different. At least they're challenging, when far too much content is better off auto-battle'd.

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@Johann

That's something I was thinking about just didn't remember the term. I was saying you could ignore it, but it's still something that is there and you will still want to get it.

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Personally I think the restrictions are a nice change of pace, even if I may find myself struggling on a particular game title.

For most titles it shouldn't an issue to any diligent player since you inherently fill out various games just by building cheap hard-counter type units for AA. (for example, in the Julius map my main killers were a 4* L'arachel with normal Blarblade and a mage Eirika)

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The Limited Hero Battles accomplish what they set out to do by providing an additional layer of challenge on otherwise non-challenging content.  Go into any of the GHB/BHB threads and you'll have more than half the posters exclaiming how easy it was.  Little wonder when the best strategy for PvE is to invest in a small handful of units at the expense of everything else.  The Limited Hero Battle have their flaws for sure, but I appreciate that it encourages a diverse barracks and forces players to rethink their usual strategies. 

I expect Resonant Hero Battles to go the same way of Aether Raids where it's easy to score and rank well in the beginning, but as time goes on the top level rewards will become increasingly out of reach to those without merged Harmonic Heroes.  At the end of the day it will be a handful of divine codes and dragon flowers.  Probably not worth getting bent out of shape over. 

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I have never played FEH for the challenge so any attempt to add challenge is something I'm automatically not fond of. I simply don't believe that's the role I want a mobile game to take. However, as long as that challenge can be defeated by simply copying video guides, that's good enough for me, and that assumes the particular content has meaningful reward in the first place. I have, for example, not done any Abyssal LHBs the first one or two (even then going straight to a guide) because there is simply no incentive to. To change up that formula for the LHBs is disappointing and the reward should have remained cosmetic.

What I dislike more though is limited time content and the incentivisation to log in every day, and indeed multiple times every day. I don't want to do it, but you lose out on so much material reward by doing so. The layering of content upon content every single day as the game has developed is probably the main reason I no longer find it enjoyable to play. I understand the business rationale for making it so, of course, but my predominant feeling about the game every day is now "ugh, fine, let's get this over and done with".

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I really do enjoy this new sort of difficulty as it allows to make teams that I normally wouldn't try out. Also the rewards for skipping or not being able to clear the really hard content like abyssals or the limited hero battles is nothing too massive as some golden accessories or 20 codes might not be that worth it to many people. As for the new mode, if free guides can allow for "max" scoring all someone needs to do is keep a copy of each free unit.

I am more annoyed by the arena scoring system that requires not so optiomal builds to take out all the +10 max invested Duos (Michy, Ephraim, Alm) and Legends (Chrom, Alm, Edelgard, Leif). Something that is really hard as F2P. But that's not the point here. 

Edited by SuperNova125

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I really think Limited Hero Battles are a good idea. The stakes are low but the challenge can be high, and it really takes people out of their comfort zone. Especially the people who only spam Nino/AoEs with multiple dancers to beat everything, or just followed f2p guides and never played for themselves. With Limiteds, you either think harder and try to dig around in your toolbox more for units and ideas, or you give up and lose basically nothing. It's satisfying if you beat it but I don't really think there's much to be frustrated about if you can't.

Tangentially, this is probably the only mobile game fanbase I know of that complains so much about not being able to clear content because they didn't want to invest in certain things that are good or useful. Maybe because it's tied to a franchise where almost any unit is """good""" if your pour all your EXP into them (and even then, this is still partially true for a large chunk of FEH's content), but man people can't handle the fact that some things don't work all the time. I guess it's partially the game's fault for not encouraging experimentation because of how SI is tied to premium fodder, when otherwise people might experiment a bit and realize that they just had to make certain changes and they could beat a map.

Resonant Battles, on the other hand, are kinda stupid imo. It's a competitive mode, and it forces you to pull for this new seasonal-locked unit type if you want to score well, similar to Allegiance Battles... Yet at the same time, the actual gameplay itself is so easy that you wonder to yourself if the word "competitive" can even be used to describe it. There's already f2p-friendly step-by-step guides on how to get max score in the current RB, and someone could just follow that to the tee because it never changes. And even though it doesn't have Arena scoring and a bunch of arbitrary restrictions, the nature of the mode encourages one to abuse high movement units like cavs and flying beasts, and if you like to play Enemy Phase, armors, infantry etc. etc. then too bad, you're just shooting yourself in the foot by using them.

The rewards of the mode are still kinda whatever at least, but it truly baffles me that there are people who defend this new mode yet hate Limiteds, even though Limiteds are in fact far less restrictive because you can approach the problem in whatever way you want with the tools you have, and also aren't a weekly repeating mode that pushes one to spend orbs. Maybe because it's just easier to play?

Edited by SatsumaFSoysoy

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3 hours ago, Johann said:

People complain that the game's PVE content isn't challenging enough, then complain that they can't beat the new thing. Only issue I think is that the Limited Hero Battles aren't around long enough, and ideally they should be permanently available.

You are missing the point.

There's a major difference between something being difficult to beat and something being impossible to beat because you don't have the necessary tools to do it.

I could try as hard as I could on the Julius map, but there's no way I am going to beat that map with two unmerged armors (Halloween Myrrh and Amelia). The rest are 4 stars, and there's not even a healer from SS I could use. My fault for foddering Cav Erika, sure, but I couldn't know at the time she would get a good refine and IS was going to implement gamemodes with unit restrictions.

And then, you have other titles like Awakening that are literally a walk in the park for me.

It's different for every player, but this is the major problem I have with this gamemode.

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2 minutes ago, Nym said:

My fault for foddering Cav Erika, sure, but I couldn't know at the time she would get a good refine and IS was going to implement gamemodes with unit restrictions.

I think every player (unless they are completely new or something) should know that if they are not going to keep at least one of every free unit, they are going to risk not being able to follow free guides. There is no good reason to get rid of them in my opinion, as Barracks is cheap to expand and less expensive fodder can be used. Just because free guides have not used a unit yet does not mean they will not use a unit in the future.

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4 minutes ago, XRay said:

I think every player (unless they are completely new or something) should know that if they are not going to keep at least one of every free unit, they are going to risk not being able to follow free guides. There is no good reason to get rid of them in my opinion, as Barracks is cheap to expand and less expensive fodder can be used. Just because free guides have not used a unit yet does not mean they will not use a unit in the future.

I never needed PM1's guides before.

Trust me, I wish I had her right now. I won't turn people into books this quickly now.

But I still keep my point. This is not the good way to add difficulty. 

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13 minutes ago, XRay said:

I think every player (unless they are completely new or something) should know that if they are not going to keep at least one of every free unit, they are going to risk not being able to follow free guides. There is no good reason to get rid of them in my opinion, as Barracks is cheap to expand and less expensive fodder can be used. Just because free guides have not used a unit yet does not mean they will not use a unit in the future.

Personally, I committed early on to keeping at least one copy of every unit I get, free or not. Felt vindicated when Dragonflowers showed up, then again here.

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32 minutes ago, Nym said:

This is not the good way to add difficulty. 

I would agree that this is a weird and bad way to add difficulty if they were applying deployment restrictions to new Hero Battles... But they're not. They're putting restrictions on older, easier Hero Battles to give older players a new challenge. And again, you lose basically nothing for not being able to do it except maybe getting a bruise on the ego.

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Resonant battles are whale bait, and not even a good one at that. From what the scores look like I see that it worked with the Leviathans that just +10 everything under the sun because they can, but if you stop to think for a little bit you'll see that the rewards are not worth spending thousands of orbs to +10 a shittier Duo hero. The game mode is extremely easy after you get how it works so meh. 

As for limited hero battles. I find them to be a good challenge and the rewards being meh stuff means that you won't be left behind due to being unable to complete the maps. I also like that it kinda vindicates those 200+ units I have in my barracks instead of just having like 20 units at +10 and nothing else. I can see how this can be frustrating to those that like to play with just a few core units and get rid of everything else, but that's where the meh rewards work because they aren't losing much by not doing these maps and their super units can still be used in modes where you get orbs, grails and bigger amounts of toilet paper. 

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I mean, I can see what they're doing by limiting deployment only to units from certain games, but my favorite part of Heroes is mixing all my favorite characters from different games and having them work alongside each other, so I'm not super fond of being limited to just one game because of that. But they're quick and painless to get over with, so it's not like it's a Tempest Trial-level activity that's restricting you to only one game.

Just don't give us any TMS-only quests when Itsuki is the only one who's not 5-star exclusive.

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This is an idea I was talking to a friend about just a few days ago actually. The move IS is currently going is indeed getting people to spend more and more orbs. The spark system is not IS being generous, but rather trying to get people to spend at least half of their monthly orb income on a guaranteed new unit. People are happy to get something certain at neutral IVs, but down goes the orb stash. Feel bad? Just buy more! Just look at this path new heroes banner we got this month with Anna. We got 5 tickets, on top of the forging bonds tickets, on top of the free summon; even spending 4 orbs after each free pull will push a player towards 20 out of 40 summons! Might as well continue, no? I’ve seen plenty of players on various forums and on Twitter debating if they “should keep going” because they’re “almost” to the 40th mark. They don’t need to, but that number is taunting them even more harshly than a pity rate % can.

Modes like these, however easy or difficult they may be to some, will at least get people to consider keeping copies of “good” units despite how nice their fodder may be. 

Next month, we have the Duo Ephraim banner coming back. I wonder how many orb stashes that banner is going to delve its claws into. IS knows what they were doing bringing it back as a voting option, just a few weeks before the new Brave Heroes are released.

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Be responsible for your own decisions, including foddering off freebies.  Own it.  And make sure to never do that again in a gacha game.

I like the Limited Hero battle idea, but I really wish it was around for two weeks.  It would give me more time to experiment.  Had a hell of a time with Julius, and only finished it because I said "screw it" and sunk 20,000 feathers into a unit I wouldn't build otherwise.

I don't treat Resonant Battles, or any other PvP modes seriously.  Missing out isn't going to break me.

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I already got bored of Limited Hero Battles and Resonant Battles have nothing interesting.  These modes are just plain unfun and I think it's dumb that the game expects players with new accounts to spend all their grails on units from the right games just so they can participate in these restricted battles, when grails are already disgustingly scarce and they might have a favourite in the grail unit list they want to +10 instead.

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I like this direction, it adds a new layer of challenge.

In all honesty i am not bothered by it, because i allready did this challenge since almost 2 years with the Askrtrio basicly. Now its not only just Askrtrio and I like it.

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19 hours ago, Humanoid said:

What I dislike more though is limited time content and the incentivisation to log in every day, and indeed multiple times every day. I don't want to do it, but you lose out on so much material reward by doing so.

You don’t really lose anything, that’s one of their deceptions. The rewards are always being drip-fed, and will be until the game stops being supported, at which point everyone will lose everything they’ve built up no matter how frequently they logged in.

Seriously, think about why you play Heroes. Are you just running on a hamster wheel, or do you have a goal in mind, something that means you “win”? And does your goal require you to play every day, even if you don’t want to?

Edited by Baldrick

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