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RainbowMoon

Is there really anything about Hubert that makes him likable? (Crimson Flower spoilers)

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I actually like Hubert a lot as a character, though not necessarily as a person. Not sure I'd want him as a friend lol. He's the secretive type willing to get his hands dirty for a greater cause and doesn't care if nobody even notices. He believes the ends justify the means. Reminds be a little of Prof. Snape from Harry Potter. As a matter of fact, the way he is kinda reminds of some students from House Slytherin as well. His background coming from a Noble family who's long done the dirty work for the ruling family is probably what makes him this way.

On 6/20/2020 at 3:19 PM, RainbowMoon said:

So in other words, Edelgard's supposed best friend has been betraying her trust for years by going off and needlessly soaking her name in blood, all without her consent, and all the while pretending that he'd never do such a thing.

Tbh i highly doubt that Edelgard doesn't know what he's up to. In a way, he's doing her a favor by doing the dirty work, this protects her via 'plausible deniability' while her agenda is being pushed. Several conversations, I believe even before A level support, indicate that she's aware he's doing a lot of underhanded things and she chooses to look away allowing him to continue. Of course, part of the reason he does this is because he wants to protect her and her image as well, out of his love for her. Btw, Dorothea's support with 'Hubie' calls him out on this quite a bit.

On 6/20/2020 at 3:19 PM, RainbowMoon said:

And while I didn't like his threatening "overprotective dad" speeches towards Byleth at all

I didn't quite see it this way as an "overprotective" reaction. I think Hubert is just completely dedicated to Edei's cause and doesn't fully trust Byleth (until I think Part 2?). This is evident when he criticizes Edelgard for revealing too much to Byleth on some occasions, saying we can't trust him/her, we don't know where they stand. So he makes it very clear to Byleth that he's willing to assassinate him/her if he/she gets in the way of their plans.

This is very similar to Seteth's suspicions of Byleth with regard to Rhea's illogical trust. No one at the time understood why Rhea was treating Byleth the way she was, making him (sry I'm just going with 'him' moving forward ūüėÖ) a professor, handing him the sword of the creator, etc. The reality of the situation is that in the background of all this Edie had been planning her revolution in secret and is looking for anything she can get to aid her cause. She, as the flame emperor, planned from the very beginning the kidnapping of the lords. I assume she planned to kill Dimitri and Claude to get them out of the picture early on were it not for Byleth's intervention.

When Byleth does show up Rhea obviously immediately realizes who he is and a cold-war begins between Rhea and Edelgard each trying to win Byleth over to their side. At first Edelgard doesn't understand who Byleth is but her interest is piqued further by Rhea's inexplicable favoritism. When Byleth gets the sword of the creator is when Edelgard immediately starts making moves, asking puzzling questions, revealing some of her desires to try to win him over. Evidently, neither Seteth nor Hubert are aware of this war of manipulation and they are both frustrated by their respective leader's trust of and desperation to gain Byleth's favor. Crimson Flower was my first run and I constantly felt like I was being tugged towards one side or the other. I thought it was brilliantly done tbh.

Whoah, I think I digressed quite a bit here, my bad. Anyway, someone like Hubert is always a problematic character that raises ethical questions like 'do the ends justify the means'? But it comes from his complete devotion to his cause (and complicated love, again like Snape). That said, I enjoyed his twisted sense of humor taking advantage occasionally of Bernie's hyper-anxiety or his discussions with Ferdinand as others noted. He is also extremely logical and strategic. I enjoyed the fact his likes included coffee and a board game (chess, in my mind).

 

Edited by Owns

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I don't think he's meant to be likable but there are some things that speak well of Hubert. 

He's a very selfless man. Not only does he devote his entire being to another person but he does so at his own expense. He's actively working to abolish the privileges that he and the rest of house Vestra have enjoyed for centuries. It could be that part of the reason why he's so loyal to Edelgard is that he entirely agrees with her ideology. 

Hubert is harsh but usually kinda fair. He's harsh on those he deems to be foolish but if those flaws aren't there he typically doesn't mistreat people. He's very openly nice to the overall competent Petra and has a decent relation with Dorothea and Hanneman. If the flaws of people are annoying but also harmless like Caspar or Bernie he tries disciplining them but also treats them with a little bit of fondness while the larger character flaws such as Linhardt and Ferdie gets the most of his venom. And he's very willing to change his mind on people as we can see with Ferdinant. 

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On 6/24/2020 at 3:47 AM, Owns said:

Tbh i highly doubt that Edelgard doesn't know what he's up to. In a way, he's doing her a favor by doing the dirty work, this protects her via 'plausible deniability' while her agenda is being pushed. Several conversations, I believe even before A level support, indicate that she's aware he's doing a lot of underhanded things and she chooses to look away allowing him to continue. Of course, part of the reason he does this is because he wants to protect her and her image as well, out of his love for her. Btw, Dorothea's support with 'Hubie' calls him out on this quite a bit.

To be fair, I did check out his supports with Ferdinand, which make it pretty clear he's doing things that El specifically told him not to do. How much she's actually aware of is never clearly stated, but I think at most El knows that Hubert's sneaking around and acting against her orders. What exactly he's doing, I don't think she knows. But she's been friends with him for long enough and trusts him well enough not to be concerned about his loyalty. Whatever he's doing must be for the greater good. My initial dislike towards Hubert was because that seemed like a really scummy thing for him to do, especially to his childhood best friend, even if it was to her benefit. I still don't like that that's what he did, but I can understand that it came from a good place, even if I feel it was the wrong thing to do. And I do like that El even calls him out on it in their A-support, telling him that even though she appreciates his help, it's not right that he leaves her in the dark about everything. I'll definitely check out the Dorothea supports too. Dorothea's another character I really enjoy because she's so sweet and considerate to all her friends, especially Petra and Ingrid, but she won't take crap if someone's giving it, like Hubert or Felix.

On 6/24/2020 at 3:47 AM, Owns said:

Anyway, someone like Hubert is always a problematic character that raises ethical questions like 'do the ends justify the means'?

Much like Edelgard herself, actually. In some ways, he's essentially El if she didn't know where to draw the line or when to stop. El's his moral compass in a sense. As long as she's there to help reel him in and keep him from going too far, she can trust that he'll do the right thing. If El wasn't there, then we may have seen a more villainous take on Hubert than what we got.

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1 hour ago, RainbowMoon said:

Much like Edelgard herself, actually. In some ways, he's essentially El if she didn't know where to draw the line or when to stop. El's his moral compass in a sense.

Oh this is a very interesting perspective! Hadn't thought of it that way. The extremist who's willing to go farther for a cause than the leader of the cause i guess. I'm doing Blue Lions route currently so i hope no one spoils anything from that route but I suspect this same line of reasoning extends to Byleth as a moral compass for El too. I'm a bit rusty now on some of the details of Black Eagle supports and dialogue but I remember something stood out that El says to Byleth after choosing to side with her. Something along the lines of were it not for you, professor, I might've turned into a cold and harsh person. It's pretty obvious that if player chooses to side with the Church then that turns El into 'the villain' and I thought that was an interesting line of dialogue for them to include. It shows how dynamic people can be and how having someone as an influence in their lives can change their trajectory. Especially in this case, someone as consequential as Byleth who can single-handedly turn the tides of war. Again I haven't completed any other routes yet so I can't know for sure but I suspect that were it not for Byleth as an ally, El would've become more desperate and be forced to take more extreme measures in her attempt to achieve her goal, making her more 'villainous'. Which also made me wonder how different Rhea would've been in Part 2 if she had Byleth on her side.

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2 hours ago, Owns said:

Which also made me wonder how different Rhea would've been in Part 2 if she had Byleth on her side.

Rhea's a bit more of a difficult case since a lot of her "evil" actions (the ones that cement her as a villain for me) take place before the start of the game or in Part 1, so they happen regardless of route. I don't know if you've done the Church route yet so I'll hide the spoilers, but let's just say Jeralt was right to be wary of her, especially concerning Byleth's well-being. That said, she does come to regret her actions if

Spoiler

you A-support her on the Church route, which is pretty damn creepy imo when you realize that Byleth's technically both her mother and granddaughter.

But otherwise,

Spoiler

she's the final boss of the Church route and you're forced to kill her.

 

(Sorry if I got any parts of Silver Snow's story/ending wrong. I haven't played that route so I'm relying on Google here.)

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21 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

(Sorry if I got any parts of Silver Snow's story/ending wrong. I haven't played that route so I'm relying on Google here.)

Spoiler

She is the final boss of SS regardless of support, having A-support with her means she lives after the final battle, while not having it means she dies.

 

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I think he's likeable in the same way certain villains are seen as likeable. Characters like Raistlin in Dragonlance, Mr Sinister from Marvel, Ashnard in PoR

 

People like characters who are unabashedly evil. They dont care what their perception is from the rest of the world, they are just after their own personal goals.

In the case of Hubert, its doing anything and everything for Edelgard. He's blindly loyal. Its both the main defining characteristic of Hubert, and his greatest flaw. He will do anything for her, no matter how evil it is. He will walk over the bodies of thousands if it meant Edelgard was even a step closer to her own ambitions.

Thats what makes Hubert interesting. Thats why people like him, at least thats the idea I get.

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For me, there is nothing redeemable about him. Characters who are assholes just for the sake of it never really click with me (well, some do, if they're at least funny about it, like Azama). But Hubert is a hard no. If I were to ever play CF again, he'd be hitting the bench~ 

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On 6/25/2020 at 2:37 PM, RainbowMoon said:

Rhea's a bit more of a difficult case since a lot of her "evil" actions (the ones that cement her as a villain for me) take place before the start of the game or in Part 1, so they happen regardless of route. I don't know if you've done the Church route yet so I'll hide the spoilers, but let's just say Jeralt was right to be wary of her, especially concerning Byleth's well-being. That said, she does come to regret her actions if

  Reveal hidden contents

you A-support her on the Church route, which is pretty damn creepy imo when you realize that Byleth's technically both her mother and granddaughter.

But otherwise,

  Reveal hidden contents

she's the final boss of the Church route and you're forced to kill her.

 

(Sorry if I got any parts of Silver Snow's story/ending wrong. I haven't played that route so I'm relying on Google here.)

Also another difference is that Rhea became very protective of Byleth if you sided with her, to the point she's willing to die for Byleth

If you side against her in CF she lost her mind though

Hubert's personality is pretty much the same regardless which route you choose

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On 6/20/2020 at 6:34 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

He is Literally Dracula, he was the main villain of Vampire FE before it leaked and they decided to settle on a school setting instead. If you ever wondered how he could be a teenager- thats your answer.

Similarly, Dedue was originally the senior vampire hunter who sacrificed themself to protect the young hunter Dimitri. But not before Dimitri's reckless charge at the immortal enemy led Hubert to respond stabbing his long nails into Dimitri's eye. Afterwards, Dedue himself became a vampire who Dimitri later put out of his misery. Edelgard was a young vampire hunter of decades prior who met the same sad fate of becoming the enemy, but wasn't brainwashed like Dedue was, at first she resigned herself to a peaceful existence amongst her new kind, but the emptiness and guilt led her to covertly continue the holy fight in her vampiric state. Edelgard for that reason worked towards becoming Hubert's second-in-command, not that he entirely trusted her. Lysithea was made a vampire bride within a few years of Vampire FE's start, but was set free by the heroes rather early on. Rhea was the leader of the Wallach Church's Special Inquisition- the institution tasked with matters of the undead.

Awesome fanfiction 

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Idk he's hot (except for his S Support image)

Jokes aside, I didn't care for him that much in my first CF run. I was amazed by him in his last VW moment. That letter hit me hard. 

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I just came back to this topic to say I'm glad to see how far this discussion about a character I never thought I'd like has come! Everyone's different opinions on Hubert have convinced me to give him another chance. And I have to say, his timeskip personality's actually started to grow on me. He's far from the irredeemable douchebag I'd made him out to be at first. His warming up to the other Black Eagles and his more caring side he shows towards Byleth and El have made up for his abrasive attitude in part 1. I've also gotten a few of his supports with Bernie, Dorothea and El, and they're surprisingly fun to watch! I love how he trolls Bernie! And his convos with El really show that even though she knows he's working in secret, she still trusts him absolutely. Shines a whole different light on that particular part of his character. I also enjoyed his paralogue and its unique side story that deals with TWSITD, though saving those dumbass mages was a hassle (thank Lysithea for Warp).

Come NG+, I'll be giving a second chance to all the students who gave me a bad first impression like Hubert, including Sylvain and Leonie :)

Spoiler

Might be benching/not recruiting Felix again though. He steals kills and the more of his supports I get the less I like him...

 

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I like Hubert, but his interactions with Byleth are terrible. This guy is supposed to be a master of tact and manipulation? "Don't disappoint me or work against me, or I'll kill you," he says. Wow, very persuasive and subtle. The way Byleth responds to his aggression is also totally unrealistic. I get that Byleth is emotionally dead, but even they would understand that they're being threatened. They're a trained mercenary. Just saying "lol okay" to someone threatening to kill you isn't plausible, and would've totally taken me out of the scene if I wasn't already dumbfounded by Hubert saying it in the first place.

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