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Anacybele

The Race Issue: Is it going too far? Has Disney hopped on the train now too?

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I don't usually post in this section because I'm not confident in my ability to not get too heated with people, but I really want to bring this topic to light now.

As people probably know, there's been kind of a race war going on in the US after the George Floyd incident. There were tons of riots, even some in my normally lowish crime rate city of Pittsburgh. Those seem to have died down, but there are still other notable things going on.

And while I have zero problem with peaceful protests and can fully support equal rights for everybody regardless of race, sexuality, gender, and whatever else, I do honestly feel that some people are taking things way too far.

Seattle's been partially taken over, some people are actually calling for defunding the police of all things (seriously, these people need to read Lord of the Flies. A country with no one to enforce the law is just dangerous and nothing more than chaos), and things as minor as food brand names are being changed because they happen to have a black person on the label. A little kid's show called Paw Patrol is under fire simply for depicting a police dog. Police-related shows like COPS are being taken off the air despite having been popular. I could go on, but I think this is enough. Nobody complained about this stuff before. I don't understand why it's such a problem now. I'd like to understand more, at the very least. As of right now, the attitudes some people have are potentially ruining fun things for people.

And worst of all, some innocent people, some not even black, have gotten hurt and even died in the riots. A girl who was literally trying to leave a brewing riot got shot and killed. She was only 21. A police woman in the Pittsburgh area was also murdered by a rioter. Businesses got attacked and wrecked. I just want all this to stop... I want people to stop hating each other like this and get along more. I want to feel safer going into town by myself again. Those being violent and hateful are no better than the cops that killed Floyd. (Also, apparently protests and riots are happening in other parts of the world too? What kind of reason do any people in those places have for this behavior? This is a US problem, not theirs.)

And now I'm also afraid Disney's getting involved in the wrong way as well, because they announced that Splash Mountain, an iconic log fume ride in their parks, is being completely changed. Why is this relevant? Because Splash Mountain features characters and music from an old Disney movie called Song of the South, which even at the time of its release was highly controversial due to its portrayal of black people and slaves. I've never seen it, but this is what I know. I haven't found any confirmation that this is why the ride is being changed, but I do fear that the race issue is a factor and that would sadden me. Splash Mountain has been iconic and popular for decades. I love the ride a lot myself, and the iconic "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah" music is some of my favorite from Disney. And what's more, it's being changed to The Princess and the Frog themewise, which features, you guessed it, black people as main characters. I do admit, Tiana has been shafted lately as an official Disney princess because she hardly even appears in their merch. But I would not want this ride to be changed because some people are suddenly offended at it or to just throw in another black character. I'd rather Splash Mountain be changed to Tiana and company because Disney just wants to give them more spotlight. As a company, I don't have as much respect for them as I used to, but I don't want to keep losing respect for them. I want to just love this theming and stuff, not be afraid that it's only there because of controversy and crap. I don't want my favorite Disney princess and movie to just be used like that. And because Disney may be going down the wrong road here, who's next after them? Nintendo? Microsoft? I'm literally scared of so much cool stuff being ruined now because it was "offensive."

Does anyone agree with me that things are going way too far? How do others feel about this change to something so big as Splash Mountain?

Edited by Anacybele

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I don't like to get involved in political discussion on the forums I'm a part of because I get tired of hearing about politics as is and I just want to relax when I'm browsing, but I agree with you. The peaceful protestors and those wishing for true, common sense reform are getting silenced by those seeking to take advantage of the situation for their own personal agendas instead of for the good of the country. There is no excuse for theft and violence to take place in any circumstance. This whole situation just demonstrates how American society in general has been taking almost every issue to the extreme. There's no balanced, measured responses to issues anymore, only the most diverging opinions and drastic solutions for problems that need thoughtful analyses and careful approaches.

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10 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

I don't like to get involved in political discussion on the forums I'm a part of because I get tired of hearing about politics as is and I just want to relax when I'm browsing, but I agree with you. The peaceful protestors and those wishing for true, common sense reform are getting silenced by those seeking to take advantage of the situation for their own personal agendas instead of for the good of the country. There is no excuse for theft and violence to take place in any circumstance. This whole situation just demonstrates how American society in general has been taking almost every issue to the extreme. There's no balanced, measured responses to issues anymore, only the most diverging opinions and drastic solutions for problems that need thoughtful analyses and careful approaches.

Huh? What do you mean politics? This isn't about the government or Trump or anything. But otherwise, yeah, I agree.

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Just now, Anacybele said:

Huh? What do you mean politics? This isn't about the government or Trump or anything. But otherwise, yeah, I agree.

Because this issue has been wrongly made into a political one by politicians and other corrupt individuals who are manipulating it to their benefit. That's why I referred to it as "political."

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Just now, twilitfalchion said:

Because this issue has been wrongly made into a political one by politicians and other corrupt individuals who are manipulating it to their benefit. That's why I referred to it as "political."

Ohhh. Yeah, that's a fair point then. You are right, that's been happening too. I guess I kinda refrained from directly bringing it up because I'm afraid I'd regret it.

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3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I guess I kinda refrained from directly bringing it up because I'm afraid I'd regret it.

I understand. Tensions are high nowadays and it seems like even expressing a personal opinion can get you flamed unnecessarily.

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Just now, twilitfalchion said:

I understand. Tensions are high nowadays and it seems like even expressing a personal opinion can get you flamed unnecessarily.

Yeah, exactly. I don't feel safe talking much about it anywhere. Even disregarding my own bad social habits.

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Not to be rude but I don't think Disney changing a 30-year-old ride is really the sterling example of extreme attitudes you think it is. Splash Mountain has been under fire for its theme for years, and according to Disney itself this retheme has been in the works for a year (though who knows if that's actually true). Besides, Disney's prone to changing or removing rides regardless of popularity, so this would hardly be the first time.

In general, I'd really recommend doing more research on the events of the protests, on why they're happening and on what's actually being asked by protesters, instead of assuming companies grasping for wokeness cookies are representative of the movement. You seem to only have a very surface-level and heavily skewed perspective on them (which is understandable given all the misinformation going around), and it wouldn't hurt to get a broader view at the problem.

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7 minutes ago, epilepsyduck said:

Not to be rude but I don't think Disney changing a 30-year-old ride is really the sterling example of extreme attitudes you think it is. Splash Mountain has been under fire for its theme for years,

Proof? I've never seen anything that says or implies this and I love researching Disney stuff.

7 minutes ago, epilepsyduck said:

In general, I'd really recommend doing more research on the events of the protests, on why they're happening and on what's actually being asked by protesters, instead of assuming companies grasping for wokeness cookies are representative of the movement. You seem to only have a very surface-level and heavily skewed perspective on them (which is understandable given all the misinformation going around), and it wouldn't hurt to get a broader view at the problem.

Dude, there is NO good reason for riots, murder, or destroying property. I will never understand this. I'm not just assuming things either. I've literally seen photos and video of people carrying "Defund the police" signs. And video footage of the Seattle situation. I'm not saying I can't do more research, but I can't agree that my perspective is as heavily skewed as you're saying either.

Edited by Anacybele

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@Anacybele No. No to all of that. The bottom line is, you have to ask yourself which you care more about-- Disney rides and video games, or enduring and ubiquitous racism and the wishes of the people who suffer every day of their lives because of it.

19 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

I don't like to get involved in political discussion on the forums I'm a part of because I get tired of hearing about politics as is and I just want to relax when I'm browsing, but I agree with you. The peaceful protestors and those wishing for true, common sense reform are getting silenced by those seeking to take advantage of the situation for their own personal agendas instead of for the good of the country. There is no excuse for theft and violence to take place in any circumstance. This whole situation just demonstrates how American society in general has been taking almost every issue to the extreme. There's no balanced, measured responses to issues anymore, only the most diverging opinions and drastic solutions for problems that need thoughtful analyses and careful approaches.

Keep in mind that one of core issues with these riots is that black people are being killed by police while doing normal everyday things like going to the store. You have a genuine privilege if you get to ignore the discussion and relax, when the victims of police violence and racists can't. In that sense, everything is inherently political, including the decision to stay out of it. That's not to say "oh, how dare you!" for finding it stressful, confusing, and not knowing how to approach it, but you'll be doing yourself a huge favor if you make efforts to educate yourself.

For what it's worth, theft and destruction as a result of the protests is complicated by the fact that, except when it's directly targeting things the protests are based on (like Confederate statues or police cruisers), it's often done by people who aren't protesting, but looking to start shit. White supremacists groups specifically went out of their way to incite violence and destruction in an effort to make the protestors look worse and give the cops an excuse for further force.

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1 minute ago, Johann said:

No. No to all of that. The bottom line is, you have to ask yourself which you care more about-- Disney rides and video games, or enduring and ubiquitous racism and the wishes of the people who suffer every day of their lives because of it.

I care about both, thanks. You don't need to change perfectly good entertainment to keep people from suffering. And you DON'T need to riot, murder, and destroy.

Edited by Anacybele

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Just now, Anacybele said:

I care about both, thanks. You don't need to change perfectly good entertainment to keep people from suffering. And you DON'T need to riot, murder, and destroy.

Except it's not perfectly good, and you're refusing to admit that because it's a thing you like. The beauty of this is that your opinion on the matter isn't going to stop Disney or other companies from looking at where they've fucked up and make changes.

The protestors aren't murdering. On the contrary, they are being murdered. Some destruction is justifiable if you consider that there are limits to peaceful protesting when what they are against is a direct existential threat. Much of white America cares more about property than it does about the well-being black people, and destroying property is the only way to get their attention. You should also take note of what I said in the post right above yours regarding white supremacist groups inciting violence.

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4 minutes ago, Johann said:

Except it's not perfectly good, and you're refusing to admit that because it's a thing you like. The beauty of this is that your opinion on the matter isn't going to stop Disney or other companies from looking at where they've fucked up and make changes.

The protestors aren't murdering. On the contrary, they are being murdered. Some destruction is justifiable if you consider that there are limits to peaceful protesting when what they are against is a direct existential threat. Much of white America cares more about property than it does about the well-being black people, and destroying property is the only way to get their attention. You should also take note of what I said in the post right above yours regarding white supremacist groups inciting violence.

And just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's offensive or has to be changed. I don't even really watch Paw Patrol or COPS, btw, and I think changing or getting rid of them is ridiculous.

And yeah, they're being murdered by other "protesters," the rioters. Someone participating in a riot shot that 21 year old girl and the rioters make the peaceful protesters look worse.

Oh wow, so you'd be okay with someone just randomly coming to my house, bashing in the windows, and robbing it just because I happen to be a white person? Thanks much.

I'm not condoning anything white supremacists do either. But you're acting like any white person is problematic. Not all of us are racist fucks.

Edited by Anacybele

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3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

And just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's offensive or has to be changed. I don't even really watch Paw Patrol or COPS, btw, and I think changing or getting rid of them is ridiculous.

And yeah, they're being murdered by other "protesters" the rioters. Someone participating in a riot shot that 21 year old girl and the rioters make the peaceful protesters look worse.

Oh wow, so you'd be okay with someone just randomly coming to my house, bashing in the windows, and robbing it just because I happen to be a white person? Thanks much.

I'm not condoning anything white supremacists do either. But you're acting like any white person is problematic. Not all of us are racist fucks.

If you want a example of people dying, at least two people were shot inside CHAZ when it going on.

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Just now, Anacybele said:

And just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's offensive or has to be changed. I don't even really watch Paw Patrol or COPS, btw, and I think changing or getting rid of them is ridiculous.

This isn't about you or me or what we like or don't like. It's about removing things that normalize racism and the glorification of police.

Just now, Anacybele said:

And yeah, they're being murdered by other "protesters" the rioters. Someone participating in a riot shot that 21 year old girl and the rioters make the peaceful protesters look worse.

The protesters are largely non-violent. Police are responding to these non-violent protests with excessive force all across the country, and to retaliate with guns is basically suicide. The police are looking for an excuse to use even greater force.

You'll need to show some receipts about that girl, I'll bet you the world that she wasn't shot by protestors.

Just now, Anacybele said:

Oh wow, so you'd be okay with someone just randomly coming to my house, bashing in the windows, and robbing it just because I happen to be a white person? Thanks much.

That's not what's happening. At all.

Just now, Anacybele said:

I'm not condoning anything white supremacists do either. But you're acting like any white person is problematic. Not all of us are racist fucks.

Nobody has said this. If losing Splash Mountain and COPS is the worst thing that happens to you, consider yourself blessed.

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@Johann I've told her on Discord she's taking what you said the wrong way, jsyk. She's calmed down, seemingly...

My opinion:

The Paw Patrol ban was a hoax. Changing stuff like Aunt Jemina and that is unnecessary and feels like skirting around the issue. Not sure about COPS though. Changing Splash Mountain to a Princess and the Frog ride can also be seen as changing it to a more modern movie.

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13 minutes ago, Johann said:

That's not what's happening. At all.

Except it is. I've seen video of, for example, a community grocery store that was completely destroyed inside. Shelves were knocked over, food was all over the floor, drinks and other liquids were spilled, there was hardly any viable product left in this place and locals still went in with carts looking for what could be salvaged. This was their nearest grocery source. It nearly made me cry. Also, the lady filming was black, btw. She just wanted to feed her kids and now she has a hard time doing that. Rioting and destruction does not do the black community any favors.

13 minutes ago, Johann said:

This isn't about you or me or what we like or don't like. It's about removing things that normalize racism and the glorification of police.

The police are meant to be protectors and heroes. There's nothing wrong with portraying that. And how would you portray them then? As evil demons because a few bad ones murdered people? Normalizing racism is wrong, but that is obviously not what a little kid's show or a freaking syrup bottle is doing.

Edited by Anacybele

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Any time I see sentiment like the one stated on the original post, I have this video from Trevor Noah as a riposte:

 

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Dirty Little Secret--The whitewashed, dumbed-down history we all learned in grade-school:

i.e. Martin Luther King led the Civil Rights Movement. And then Congress passed the Civil Rights Act. And then there was equality under the law and Black people were treated equally and America became a post-racial society:

...that was a lie...  

From slavery and the 3/5th's Rule to segregation and lynching to red-lining and the creation of the modern american "ghetto" to ongoing predatory practices in policing and criminal justice--its been one, continuous, unbroken line.

Racism never went away.

We're still closer to 1968 then to true equality under the law.
We're still fighting the same culture war against the same entrenched opposition.   

The reason its more visible now is that with cellphone technology being as advanced and commonly-used as it is: everyone is walking around these days with recording devices in the palm of their hands.

And things that we use to hear about but never see are regularly uploaded to facebook and youtube now. 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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2 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Dirty Little Secret--The whitewashed, dumbed-down history we all learned in grade-school:

i.e. Martin Luther King led the Civil Rights Movement. And then Congress passed the Civil Rights Act. And then that was then Black people were treated equally and America became a post-racial society, and racism stopped being a problem in this country.

...that was a lie...  

From slavery and the 3/5th's Rule to segregation and lynching to red-lining and the creation of the modern american "ghetto" to ongoing predatory practices in policing and criminal justice--its been one, continuous, unbroken line.

Racism never went away.

We're still closer to 1968 then to true equality under the law.
We're still fighting the same culture war against the same entrenched opposition.   

The reason its more visible now is that with cellphone technology being as advanced and commonly-used as it is: everyone is walking around with recording devices now in the palm of their hand.

And things that we use to hear about but never see are regularly uploaded to facebook and youtube now. 

Yeah, this is a fair point. The internet and smartphones do allow people to show stuff more easily than ever before.

I will also say that while I still am completely against all the violence and rioting, if good change does still come in the end, I can fully appreciate that.

Edited by Anacybele

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Here's the thing: 

1. There are riots and protests going on everywhere in the world because George Floyd was the final nail in the coffin for EVERYONE. After years upon years upon years of police brutality and racism all across the globe, this was when people decided enough was enough. 

2. I understand why people are angry about the whole Disney and TV show thing, but here's what I think: Isn't doing more to make things a bit better more favorable than doing nothing to change anything at all? If Disney is getting rid of a racist ride's theme in order to, well, get rid of a racist ride's theme, that's perfectly fine. After all, they're only changing the theme to something NOT racist, so why does it matter? 

I usually don't really get involved in serious discussions, but I feel quite strongly about this topic. 

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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

some people are actually calling for defunding the police of all things

^^^
I actually don't think thats a terrible idea btw.

And do note that defund does not mean abolish.

It means reduce their funding + cut back their operations.
____

We have too many police in this country, doing too many things that are not reasonably related to legitimate needs of public safety. 

And we have too many domestic policy items that are going underfunded (i.e. healthcare, education, science and the arts, etc.), because we let police and military spending cannibalize our entire budget.

I happen to think it would be a very, very, VERY good thing if we had a smaller army. Fewer cops. Fought less wars, criminalized fewer things (see the drug laws), and arrested/imprisoned fewer people.

Then reinvested the money saved from defunding police and military operations in--say--schools and hospitals. 

 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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6 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

^^^
I actually don't think thats a terrible idea btw.

And do note that defund does not mean abolish.

It means reduce their funding + cut back their operations.
____

We have too many police in this country, doing too many things that are not reasonably related to legitimate needs of public safety. 

And we have too many domestic policy items that are going underfunded (i.e. healthcare, education, science and the arts, etc.), because we let police and military spending cannibalize our entire budget.

I happen to think it would be a very, very, VERY good thing if we had a smaller army. Fewer cops. Fought less wars, criminalized fewer things (see the drug laws), and arrested/imprisoned fewer people.

Then reinvested the money saved from defunding police and military operations in--say--schools and hospitals. 

 

Okay then, but that's still a difficult thing to properly pull off. Too much defunding and the police may not be able to properly do their jobs. What really needs to be done is more proper training and such. And that would require funds.

Same goes for the military. And I know this from experience. Obama defunded the military and I was living near Ft. Bragg, NC when he was in office. Because of the defunding, Bragg no longer had enough money to do things like celebrate 4th of July and whatnot. They canceled their entire event for it. And more importantly, they also lost a lot of soldiers because they couldn't afford to keep them.

I'm fine if this defunding and cutback can be pulled off without jeopardizing innocent people and lives. Completely fine with it. But I'm not sure we can trust the government to do it right.

I don't agree with a smaller army. This country is huge. A big country needs a big army to be able to defend it.

Edited by Anacybele

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1 minute ago, Shoblongoo said:

And do note that defund does not mean abolish.

It means reduce their funding + cut back their operations.

Thank you, I was about to write the same. People/Media utterly misrepresenting something and then mocking that distorted statement for its naivity really grinds my gears.

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