The Race Issue: Is it going too far? Has Disney hopped on the train now too?

[Armchair General]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Okay then, but that's still a difficult thing to properly pull off. Too much defunding and the police may not be able to properly do their jobs. What really needs to be done is more proper training and such. And that would require funds.

Same goes for the military. And I know this from experience. Obama defunded the military and I was living near Ft. Bragg, NC when he was in office. Because of the defunding, Bragg no longer had enough money to do things like celebrate 4th of July and whatnot. They canceled their entire event for it. And more importantly, they also lost a lot of soldiers because they couldn't afford to keep them.

I'm fine if this defunding and cutback can be pulled off without jeopardizing innocent people and lives. Completely fine with it. But I'm not sure we can trust the government to do it right.

You know, back in the day, the Highway Patrol for certain states consisted around 16 troopers. Nowadays it's closer to 200 at the very least. Of course, nowadays, we have specialized branches and aviation that warrants an increase in personnel.

[Fabulously Olivier]

20 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Okay then, but that's still a difficult thing to properly pull off. Too much defunding and the police may not be able to properly do their jobs. What really needs to be done is more proper training and such. And that would require funds.

Same goes for the military. And I know this from experience. Obama defunded the military and I was living near Ft. Bragg, NC when he was in office. Because of the defunding, Bragg no longer had enough money to do things like celebrate 4th of July and whatnot. They canceled their entire event for it. And more importantly, they also lost a lot of soldiers because they couldn't afford to keep them.

I'm fine if this defunding and cutback can be pulled off without jeopardizing innocent people and lives. Completely fine with it. But I'm not sure we can trust the government to do it right.

I don't agree with a smaller army. This country is huge. A big country needs a big army to be able to defend it.

Our army isn't just the biggest in the world. It's bigger than the next 10 armies combined.

 

So yes, it needs to be defunded. We need to stop allocating half of our federal budget to boom boom explosions, and the Republicans need to stop pretending that their gross overallocation of funds to the military is fiscally responsible.

 

We're suffering domestically because the Idiot Party is obsessed with killing people, leaving nothing for the education, infrastructure, health care, and safety nets we actually need. And none of it would be unachievable if most of our budget wasn't wasted on Michael Bay wetdreams.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Fabulously Olivier

[Anacybele]

6 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

You know, back in the day, the Highway Patrol for certain states consisted around 16 troopers. Nowadays it's closer to 200 at the very least. Of course, nowadays, we have specialized branches and aviation that warrants an increase in personnel.

Crime rates were higher back then too, at least in some places. Fayetteville, the city I lived in in NC near Ft. Bragg, was nicknamed "Fayette-nam" because the crime was out of control. Now, it's much better, probably due to more police and law enforcement.

[Shoblongoo]

18 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

What really needs to be done is more proper training and such. 

I...don't think so...

My experience working with cops + trying to take down the crooked ones (and i do this ALOT in my profession), has led me to a saddening but inescapable conclusion:

Police in America are adequately trained to know how they are supposed to act.

The problem is not that they lack effective training. 

The problem is they have become accustomed to working in an environment where there's no real civil or criminal accountability for police misconduct. And where they feel confident nothing bad will happen to them, if they just ignore their training and do whatever-the-hell-they-want.

...and so thats exactly what many of them do....   (there's no disincentive) 

Training cannot achieve the desired result of making officers behave professionally, unless failure to follow training has real criminal and civil penalties. 

And that is the reform that is needed.

Bad cops don't need more training. They need more fear of punishment. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Shoblongoo

[Lord Raven]

17 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Too much defunding and the police may not be able to properly do their jobs.

The police's job is to serve suburban whites. Fuck 'em.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

Just now, Shoblongoo said:

I...don't think so...

My experience working with cops + trying to take down the crooked ones (and i do this ALOT in my profession), has led me to a saddening but inescapable conclusion:

Police in America are adequately trained to know how they are supposed to act.

The problem is not that they lack effective training. 

The problem is they have become accustomed to working in an environment where there's no real civil or criminal accountability for police misconduct. And where they feel confident nothing bad will happen to them, if they just ignore their training and do whatever-the-hell-they-want.

...and so thats exactly what many of them do....   (there's no disincentive) 

Training cannot receive the desired result of making officers behave professionally, unless failure to follow their training has real criminal and civil penalties. 

And that is the reform that is needed.

Bad cops don't need more training. They need more fear of punishment. 

That's fine too. Maybe it's really a bit of both, but whatever the case, something has to happen.

 

[Lord Raven]

The premise of the thread is "I'm sick of the race problem being in my face." Minorities are sick of their race factoring into every little thing they do in every single interaction with white people. Everywhere from being more likely to be fired, less likely to be taken seriously, and anytime there's a protest you get told a) you're making us uncomfortable (like we don't already feel constantly uncomfortable), b) do it on your own time (then how will anyone understand?), and c) we're post racial thanks to MLK peacefully doing things (all a lie).

Centuries of slavery becoming gaslighting, and the US is still wildly segregated. 

So yeah, if suburban whites could just be accepting towards black people, then maybe their targets wouldn't be getting looted right now by opportunists.

Seriously, it wasn't just George Floyd. That Karen in Central Park knew what could possibly happen if she called the police on a black dude and weaponized that. Breonna Taylor's boyfriend shot back at some dudes who broke into his house and killed his girlfriend, without a knock or identification. Ahmaud Arbery was killed by former police whose local judges didn't wanna prosecute. The list goes on and on and on, and there's so many we don't even know.

 

 

Is it going too far? Fuck all that, it's always been too far. Now people are pushing back. Especially since Trump is openly a white supremacist.

And to think Trumpies and radical centrists gaslighted us into saying "listen to the other side." Fuck all that.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

The premise of the thread is "I'm sick of the race problem being in my face."

No, it's "I'm sick of all the violence and innocent people getting hurt." Nothing more.

[Lord Raven]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

No, it's "I'm sick of all the violence and innocent people getting hurt." Nothing more.

Yeah, now imagine saying this for four centuries and nobody listened. And instead voted for an open white supremacist named Donald Trump.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Lord Raven

[Armchair General]

13 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

I...don't think so...

My experience working with cops + trying to take down the crooked ones (and i do this ALOT in my profession), has led me to a saddening but inescapable conclusion:

Police in America are adequately trained to know how they are supposed to act.

The problem is not that they lack effective training. 

The problem is they have become accustomed to working in an environment where there's no real civil or criminal accountability for police misconduct. And where they feel confident nothing bad will happen to them, if they just ignore their training and do whatever-the-hell-they-want.

...and so thats exactly what many of them do....   (there's no disincentive) 

Training cannot achieve the desired result of making officers behave professionally, unless failure to follow training has real criminal and civil penalties. 

And that is the reform that is needed.

Bad cops don't need more training. They need more fear of punishment. 

And being tried for murder isn't enough of an fear for them?

[Nym]

2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

(Also, apparently protests and riots are happening in other parts of the world too? What kind of reason do any people in those places have for this behavior? This is a US problem, not theirs.)

I am just going to respond to that.

The reason is simple: there is still racism in the world. It shouldn't be in a thing in 2020 but it still exists. George Floyd's cruel death ignited the anger of everyone, proving that racism shouldn't exist especially for people in position of power like police officers. This is why there have been riots in other parts of the world.

Riots are riots and unfortunately, some people are just here to cause damage and steal. A few dozen rioters vandalize a music store and stole a few items in my city, but they all got arrested. This was about two weeks ago, and the majority of these have been very peaceful. Even those who insulted the police for no reasons were told to shut up.

[Lord Raven]

Just now, Armchair General said:

And being tried for murder isn't enough of an fear for them?

They haven't been tried for murder until very, very, very recently.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Lord Raven said:

Yeah, now imagine saying this for four centuries and nobody listened. And instead voted for an open white supremacist named Donald Trump.

No person has said it for that long though. Because nobody lives that long. And don't you dare start shitting on people for who they vote for. This is not the place for that.

[Johann]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Except it is. I've seen video of, for example, a community grocery store that was completely destroyed inside. Shelves were knocked over, food was all over the floor, drinks and other liquids were spilled, there was hardly any viable product left in this place and locals still went in with carts looking for what could be salvaged. This was their nearest grocery source. It nearly made me cry. Also, the lady filming was black, btw. She just wanted to feed her kids and now she has a hard time doing that. Rioting and destruction does not do the black community any favors.

No, it's not, nobody is breaking into your home because you're white. You're telling a different story all of a sudden. You're also mistaking the random acts of destruction for the actual protests. It doesn't delegitimize the protests nor does it mean you're a target. You are speaking out of a fear and assumptions.

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

The police are meant to be protectors and heroes. There's nothing wrong with portraying that. And how would you portray them then? As evil demons because a few bad ones murdered people? Normalizing racism is wrong, but that is obviously not what a little kid's show or a freaking syrup bottle is doing.

They are meant to, but they are anything but. Instead, they're effectively a special class of people who are largely immune to the laws they're supposed to uphold for everyone else, while being equipped physically and legally with the means to do whatever they want. Corruption is rampant, and there are also little to no effective mechanisms in place for "good" cops or regular people to challenge that corruption.

[epilepsyduck]

1 minute ago, Armchair General said:

And being tried for murder isn't enough of an fear for them?

Not when they are so rarely even charged for such crimes, much less convicted.

[Lord Raven]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

No person has said it for that long though. Because nobody lives that long.

...

ever heard of history...  because black people have been enslaved and brutalized for 401 years on this land. Native Americans have been slaughtered en masse then put on reservations to die while nobody cares about them.

Nobody lives that long, but 401 years of oppression has breaking points.

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

And don't you dare start shitting on people for who they vote for. This is not the place for that.

Considering the president retweets people shouting White Power, puts 88 dollar baseballs on his shop, retweeted a guy saying "the only good democrat is a dead democrat," "when the looting starts the shooting starts" (reference to a racist miami mayor from the 60s), who gassed protesters to make a virtue signalling photo-op at a church after calling the military to take down peaceful protesters, actively tried to send out wanted posters for people who took down racist confederate statues...

yeah, i'm not going to give voting for Trump much of a pass. His dumbassery and racism -- in poorly handling a pandemic that is disproportionately targeting black people among other things -- was part of the reason this whole protest sparked off.

Reap what you sow.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Lord Raven

[Armchair General]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

No person has said it for that long though. Because nobody lives that long. And don't you dare start shitting on people for who they vote for. This is not the place for that.

Nobody can predict how an politician will turn out.

4 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

They haven't been tried for murder until very, very, very recently.

That isn't much of an excuse. Shit's been going on since that guy who was beaten by the jailors in LA. It ain't hard to wise up and take a hint.

[Lord Raven]

1 minute ago, Armchair General said:

That isn't much of an excuse. Shit's been going on since that guy who was beaten by the jailors in LA. It ain't hard to wise up and take a hint.

What are you talking about?

Police officers have almost never faced a conviction for murder until recently. It was rare as shit.

Ever heard of Qualified Immunity?

1 minute ago, Armchair General said:

Nobody can predict how an politician will turn out.

lmfao we predicted his poor reaction to everything four years ago on this forum, including the racism, but we were told that he wasn't racist and his supporters weren't either and yet here we are

Edited June 29, 2020 by Lord Raven

[Karimlan]

18 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

The problem is not that they lack effective training. 

The problem is they have become accustomed to working in an environment where there's no real civil or criminal accountability for police misconduct. And where they feel confident nothing bad will happen to them, if they just ignore their training and do whatever-the-hell-they-want.

...and so thats exactly what many of them do....   (there's no disincentive) 
 

Say it with me now: I M P U N I T Y.

And calling out the Orange Nutjob at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue for stoking the fires of racism ever brighter and stronger ought to be a civic duty, thank you very much.

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

...

ever heard of history...  because black people have been enslaved and brutalized for 401 years on this land. Native Americans have been slaughtered en masse then put on reservations to die while nobody cares about them.

Nobody lives that long, but 401 years of oppression has breaking points.

Uh. You do realize slavery was abolished well over 100 years ago, right? It's illegal. Anyone that gets caught doing it gets busted. Native Americans being mass-slaughered happened hundreds of years ago too. You can't blame today's Americans for things that happened centuries ago. It isn't my fault that I might have had some shitty ancestors. I didn't choose who they are.

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Anacybele

[Fabulously Olivier]

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

No person has said it for that long though. Because nobody lives that long. And don't you dare start shitting on people for who they vote for. This is not the place for that.

You made an expressly political thread regarding race issues of all things and you think you can say that this is not the place for that?

 

This is the pot calling the kettle black, and then racially targeting them for it.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

You made an expressly political thread regarding race issues of all things and you think you can say that this is not the place for that?

I said it isn't the place to insult someone for who they want to be in office, not that it isn't the place to discuss race issues. Why you think these are exactly the same topic, I don't know.

[Lord Raven]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Uh. You do realize slavery was abolished well over 100 years ago, right? It's illegal. Anyone that gets caught doing it gets busted.

LMAO

First off, no, this is 100000% false. Prisons are a good source of slavery. Guess who gets disproportionately thrown into prison? And guess how legal it is?

(It's pretty fucking legal)

Second off, slavery isn't the only form of oppression. Segregation exists. You know Terry Bradshaw's career started not long after the Civil Rights act of 1968? And you know segregation is still happening? And you know how black people make far lower wages and have far lower wealth than their white counterparts on average?

They modified slavery to fit the constitution. That's all.

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I said it isn't the place to insult someone for who they want to be in office, not that it isn't the place to discuss race issues. Why you think these are exactly the same topic, I don't know.

When the man in office a) is trying to make it worse, b) threatens protesters, and c) exhibited all these signs blatantly during his campaign (and we clamored about it to deaf ears), yes I think it's wise to blame Trump voters. Or at least inform that they are responsible, since they're the ones complaining the most.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Lord Raven

[Armchair General]

9 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

What are you talking about?

Police officers have almost never faced a conviction for murder until recently. It was rare as shit.

Ever heard of Qualified Immunity?

lmfao we predicted his poor reaction to everything four years ago on this forum, including the racism, but we were told that he wasn't racist and his supporters weren't either and yet here we are

Specifically, Rodney King. But that was on federal charges and after an failed trial and a wave of rioting.

[Lord Raven]

Just now, Armchair General said:

Specifically, Rodney King. But that was on federal charges and after an failed trial and a wave of rioting.

Yeah and again, it's like saying "they wanna get married now??? wasn't Don't Ask Don't Tell enough???"