What changes would you make to Binding Blade in a potential remake?

[Benice]

7 hours ago, Sooks1016 said:

I agree with this whole post, but you and I have a very different definition of “worth using”. Actually, I generally think the replacement units end up as worse than the original, but maybe that’s just the players punishment for the other ones dying

Yes, indeed. If Allance die, there's nothing wrong with Noah. (And sort of Treck.) Noah joins with okay bases and can promote soon after he joins. His growths aren't as good as Allance's, but he has better bases and a higher joining level, meaning a stat-screwed or dead Allance have a decent backup. He won't be as good, but he will be good enough. Same with most classes-Fir joining after Rutger with lower bases and level, (Fir is still pretty good,) Thea, (at least on NM) joining with lower bases and after Shanna, etc.

7 hours ago, Sooks1016 said:

As does a drought of promotion items, because if one of your promoted units dies and you don’t have any more of that promotion item and won’t for a while, or a prepromote in that class, that’s a big fat F.

I agree, but the amount of prepromotes you get helps a lot for this. Every class, (barring Sages and by technicality Wyvern Lord) has a prepromote who is usually worse than their unpromoted counterparts once they're trained, but still quite good. Juno is the only real exception I can think of. Since you can S-rank multiple weapons, you don't really need an S of every weapon type or class. IMO the biggest strike against the ironmanability in terms of units is the fact that Lilina, a unit who will be OHKO'd on hard, recruits basically every enemy unit.

7 hours ago, Sooks1016 said:

Although you need your first nomad alive to recruit your second one, which is odd.

Eh, Sue only has to survive two maps, one of which she really shouldn't be in danger. She also is basically needed for the third, Dayan, since if she doesn't live to recruit Shin, you ain't headed to Sacae.

5 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Haven't got that far but the ones in the Holy Tomb annoyed me since they spawn at the stairs...then get essentially free movement moving down the hallway. 

This happens all the time. If you get the Ingrid/Dorothea paralogue...

Welp.

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Benice said:

(barring Sages and by technicality Wyvern Lord)

What do you mean technicality? No one joins as a wyvern lord.

[joevar]

make the Divine Weapons and/or Binding blade have permanent use. whenever i see playthru videos, either people forgot the Hammerne exist, or already use them a bit and forgot to use them again till ending. And that leads to almost unused Roy, even after promotion. because they are afraid breaking BB and still equip other weapon

[Benice]

3 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

What do you mean technicality? No one joins as a wyvern lord.

Milady joins with an Elysian whip IIRC, and she is really the best use of it. One may want to let her level as a wyvern rider, but there isn't a huge reason to do this.

[Hello72207]

43 minutes ago, joevar said:

make the Divine Weapons and/or Binding blade have permanent use

This is a terrible Idea, mainly because of how early you get some divine weapons. You get Durandal in chapter 8x, and there are 20 chapters left in the game. What's gonna stop me from dumping this effectively 23 might unbreakable sword on Rutger and snapping the game in half for the remainder of the game.

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, Hello72207 said:

This is a terrible Idea, mainly because of how early you get some divine weapons. You get Durandal in chapter 8x, and there are 20 chapters left in the game. What's gonna stop me from dumping this effectively 23 might unbreakable sword on Rutger and snapping the game in half for the remainder of the game.

Needing S rank in swords.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Sooks1016

[Hello72207]

24 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

Needing S rank in swords

If you promote him in 8x like most players do, Rutger can easily have S swords because he only needs 100 sword xp, which if he doesn't have, he's close.

Quote

Milady joins with an Elysian whip IIRC,

Melady does not join with an Elysian whip, but you get one in chapter 12 that she uses quite nicely.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Hello72207

[joevar]

11 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

If you promote him in 8x like most players do

"most player" who have beaten the game multiple times, with good knowledge of the guide, tier list and know about henning being a difficulty spike, then yes those people could/should promote rutger at that time, otherwise no

im having a hard time finding any casual play video be it normal or hard mode which promote rutger at that point unless its unusual run with personal restriction/ rules

Edited October 21, 2020 by joevar

[Jotari]

32 minutes ago, joevar said:

"most player" who have beaten the game multiple times, with good knowledge of the guide, tier list and know about henning being a difficulty spike, then yes those people could/should promote rutger at that time, otherwise no

im having a hard time finding any casual play video be it normal or hard mode which promote rutger at that point unless its unusual run with personal restriction/ rules

They would if there was a massively powerful legendary weapon granted really early that has infinite uses. Binding Blade could pretty safely get infinite uses though. Only three chapters (effectively) left to use it. Basically have to reserve Hammerne use for it if you want to get some real use out of Roy.

Though while we're talking legendary weapons, can I have Eckesaches please? They make a point of the fact that it's just sitting there on the ground is pointed out yet I don't get it. Yeah, yeah the description says it's only used by the King of Bern...but why? None of the other legendary weapons are prf save the Binding Blade which is canonically binded to Roy.

[Hello72207]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

None of the other legendary weapons are prf save the Binding Blade which is canonically binded to Roy.

The binding blade chose Roy, so it could make sense that maybe Eckesachs chose the kingdom of Bern's family, Hartmut's descendants, to wield it and nobody else. Roy and his crew canonically get it, but the blade didn't choose them so it won't let them wield it.

42 minutes ago, joevar said:

"most player" who have beaten the game multiple times, with good knowledge of the guide, tier list and know about henning being a difficulty spike, then yes those people could/should promote rutger at that time, otherwise no

So it would only be balanced towards new players who don't early promo Rutger, and even if they wait till chapter, say, 14, that's still like 10 chapters of the game with a infinite use 22 might sword. Anybody who plays it again will promote Rutger there and snap the game in half.

[ping]

6 minutes ago, joevar said:

"most player" who have beaten the game multiple times, with good knowledge of the guide, tier list and know about henning being a difficulty spike, then yes those people could/should promote rutger at that time, otherwise no

im having a hard time finding any casual play video be it normal or hard mode which promote rutger at that point unless its unusual run with personal restriction/ rules

In basically every FE game, promoting early makes the game easier, not harder. If anything, "don't promote before Lv.20" is a (very common) challenge run, right alongside "don't use the Jeigan". Lategame stats are severely overrated.

That aside, if you play at a fairly leisurely pace and with said self-restrictions, you can get your first Lv.20 promotions in chapter 11 or 12. You'd still get access to an unbreakable overpowered weapon way too early.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Increasing the uses of the Divine Weapons to 30, like the Sacred Twins of SS, is an option, would that extra ten uses be too good? Or, as I've suggested before, a free full-repair of every Divine Weapon after Chapter 22 from the all-gathered resonance, that way you can them ready again to bust the Dragon Temple.

[joevar]

12 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

Anybody who plays it again will promote Rutger there and snap the game in half.

haha, alright2, we can scratch that divine weapon idea, altho i still want to uphold BB infinite uses idea. since the game doesnt include it in 8 legendary weapon so we can separate it no?

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Increasing the uses of the Divine Weapons to 30, like the Sacred Twins of SS, is an option, would that extra ten uses be too good? Or, as I've suggested before, a free full-repair of every Divine Weapon after Chapter 22 from the all-gathered resonance, that way you can them ready again to bust the Dragon Temple.

if i had to choose then the latter. so all expended Divine weapon will just sit in convoy until ch.22, after that ready to use again.

[Jotari]

43 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

The binding blade chose Roy, so it could make sense that maybe Eckesachs chose the kingdom of Bern's family, Hartmut's descendants, to wield it and nobody else. Roy and his crew canonically get it, but the blade didn't choose them so it won't let them wield it.

So it would only be balanced towards new players who don't early promo Rutger, and even if they wait till chapter, say, 14, that's still like 10 chapters of the game with a infinite use 22 might sword. Anybody who plays it again will promote Rutger there and snap the game in half.

Why would Eckesachs have this feature when none of the other legendary weapons do? Eliwood was personally given Durandal by Roland and is still alive yet anyone can use it. Why would Eckesachs choose exclusively the king of Bern and not Roy, the inheritor of Hartmut's other sword? Sure Eckesachs can just randomly be different from the other legendary weapons, which is what the case seems to be in game, but I don't exactly want excuses for why I can't use the legendary weapons when all the precedent allows me.

[Benice]

RE: Legendary weapons, I think that BB should be unbreakable because of how late you get it and that the rest should repair for about 5 uses per chapter, maybe? Either way, they do not permanently break. Also, I want Roy to get a good prf weapon after ch. 8 from Cecilia and another in ch. 16 where he'd  (hopefully) promote.

1 hour ago, Hello72207 said:

Melady does not join with an Elysian whip, but you get one in chapter 12 that she uses quite nicely.

Ah, my bad.

2 hours ago, Sooks1016 said:

Needing S rank in swords.

Generally speaking, (moreso on hard) one will see the use of having an earlypromoted Rutger who dominates most of the game to a latepromoted one who misses out on being a bosskiller at the parts of the game where he'll be your best one. He'll probably last until close to endgame regardless, really.

[Sooks]

Just now, Benice said:

Also, I want Roy to get a good prf weapon after ch. 8 from Cecilia and another in ch. 16 where he'd  (hopefully) promote.

Why 16? And why should we mess with Roy’s promotion at all?

[Whisky]

In regards to Eckesachs being usable by only Zephiel, and that the Binding Blade chose Roy. Echesachs is a Divine weapon. The Binding Blade is different from the Divine weapons. So it makes sense that the Binding Blade has different mechanics but it doesn’t make sense for Echesachs to be different from other Divine weapons. Also, it’s sort of implied that anyone could have used the Binding Blade if they inserted the Fire Emblem into it. Roy was just the one who happened to be in that situation. There’s a conversation about that in the game between Roy and Elphin. The gameplay reason for it might be that they didn’t want to give you two S rank Swords. You currently get one S rank weapon for each weapon type.

-

In regards to Divine weapons being unbreakable, it would be too unbalanced. It’s mostly fine the way it is now. Each weapon gets 20 uses and you can choose how and when to use those 20 uses throughout the game. Use them early on when they are useful, or ration them for later, that’s the player’s choice. You also get a Hammerne later on to be able to choose to repair up to three of them. They need to have limited durability in order for the game to be able to able to give them to you throughout the game. 

Could they be increased to 30 uses? Sure, i think that would be reasonable, but I think 20 or 30 could work. I don’t think 30 uses would make the game better, just different (and easier).

One potential way to attempt to balance unbreakable Divine Weapons, could be to have them start weaker and grow stronger with each one you get. Again, I wouldn’t consider this an improvement, just different. You would have an unbreakable weapon but it wouldn’t be super strong. As it is now, you get the super strong Durandal and can choose to use it when in a tight spot or up against a powerful boss, or ration it for later. This puts the choice on the player and is an aspect of resource management. That’s why I like the Divine Weapons how they are now.

Edit: The Binding Blade, I would be more okay with being unbreakable since you get it so late and it’s meant to be something even more special than the Divine Weapons. Though there are still balance reasons to not do this, including that since you do get it so late, 20 uses is even for it be plenty useful. You have a whole army to fight with, Roy doesn’t need to do everything himself.

5 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

Why 16? And why should we mess with Roy’s promotion at all?

Because Roy’s promotion comes super late in the game (though that’s the case for a lot of lords in the series) and Chapter 16 is when Roy is titled as the leader of the Eturian Alliance Army so it would be an appropriate time for a promotion. He literally gets a promotion in the story here.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Whisky

[Interdimensional Observer]

Just now, Sooks1016 said:

Why 16? And why should we mess with Roy’s promotion at all?

Roy's promotion comes too late, that is bad. 16 is where he saves Etruria and gets appointed commander of the combined Etrurian-Lycian army. It's a good timing regarding his personal achievements, comparable to Ike going Lord after C17 PoR for the sake of leading that Begnion contingent.

 

4 minutes ago, Benice said:

Also, I want Roy to get a good prf weapon after ch. 8 from Cecilia

What would be useful though? Just a generally strong sword?

Rapier should be buffed the 2 Mt to the Blazing & SS 7 Mt value. That'd be a whole 6 damage more on Cavs and Armors, not negligible 

[Benice]

4 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

Why 16? And why should we mess with Roy’s promotion at all?

Part of the reason that Roy is so bad is that

1. He promotes with one to three real chapters left.
2. His promoted class is his unpromoted class with one more movement.

He gains nothing from promotion, and his already mostly lackluster stats can't possibly hold up and he is likely to get OHKO'd or ORKO'd in the lategame. I think it makes more sense for him to promote in ch. 16 and to gain a horse or something from promotion, not to mention new battle animations and weapon types.

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

What would be useful though? Just a generally strong sword?

Maybe a magic (levin?) sword, since Cecilia is a mage. At that point in the game, there are practically no generic cavaliers or armors, so the rapier ain't doing much for quite a while.

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Whisky said:

 

One potential way to attempt to balance unbreakable Divine Weapons, could be to have them start weaker and grow stronger with each one you get. Again, I wouldn’t consider this an improvement, just different. You would have an unbreakable weapon but it wouldn’t be super strong. As it is now, you get the super strong Durandal and can choose to use it when in a tight spot or up against a powerful boss, or ration it for later. This puts the choice on the player and is an aspect of resource management. That’s why I like the Divine Weapons how they are now.

 

I actually really like this idea from a narrative stand point. It would really foreshadow and build to the moment where they're all gathered and you get the to play the real ending. Right now that plot point is just "Endings that way, go get it. Hope you didn't take twenty turns to finish that one level!" But if they got stronger every time you collected one then that moment would suddenly become an event that the game has been working it's way towards. The divine weapons would feel like they've finally achieved what they're meant to be rather than just a gps pointer that guards an arbitrary lock cutting you off from the true ending.

20 minutes ago, Whisky said:

You have a whole army to fight with, Roy doesn’t need to do everything himself.

 

But I want him doing everything himself after having him sit out of combat for 70% of the game damnit!

[Sooks]

43 minutes ago, Whisky said:

Because Roy’s promotion comes super late in the game

37 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Roy's promotion comes too late, that is bad.

34 minutes ago, Benice said:

Part of the reason that Roy is so bad is that

1. He promotes with one to three real chapters left.
2. His promoted class is his unpromoted class with one more movement.

He gains nothing from promotion, and his already mostly lackluster stats can't possibly hold up and he is likely to get OHKO'd or ORKO'd in the lategame.

I knew all of this and I was going to say it being bad but not to the point of unusable is just how it was designed and shouldn’t be changed, but is that really how he performs on hard mode?

[Benice]

9 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

I knew all of this and I was going to say it being bad but not to the point of unusable is just how it was designed and shouldn’t be changed, but is that really how he performs on hard mode?

Yep. He is really that bad. Assuming Roy is capped out before promotion, he will have 42 physical bulk, (41 w/wtd, which he will be facing a lot) Taking ch. 21 as an example, generic wyvern riders will have more-or less these stats:

Spoiler

Dragon Riders: 1239472130984712093470923740923874 (actually just 20)

2 L10 w/ Steel Lance

26-27 Atk, 81-82 Hit, 6 Crit----39¬-40 Hp, 14 Def, 2 Res, 21-25 Avo, 8-9 AS, 5-7 CEV

18 L20, 10 w/ Steel Lance + Javelin (-4 Atk, +2 AS, +4 Avo), 5 w/ Killer Lance (+20 Hit, +30 Crit, +3 AS, +6 Avo) & Vulnerary, 3 w/ Steel Lance

30 Atk, 84-91 Hit, 6-8 Crit----44-49 (50) Hp, 15-17 Def, 3-5 Res, 29-35 (36, 37) Avo, 11-13 (14) AS, 7-9 (10) CEV

Generic unpromoted units won't OHKO Roy, but he sure won't survive two.

Meanwhile: Wyvern Lords. Promoted.

Spoiler

5 L10 Dragon Lords w/ Silver Lance

39-40 Atk, 100-107 Hit, 8-9 Crit----55-58 Hp, 17-19 Def, 3-5 Res, 35-41 Avo, 14-16 AS, 7-9 CEV

Some will have exactly enough to OHKO Roy, or extremely close-Roy cursed even one point of HP or def will die in one hit. He'll also get ORKO'd very easily in Sacae, as nomads will double him and anything promoted will OHKO or ORKO.

Keeping Roy safe isn't that hard, but he won't be pulling his weight.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Benice

[joevar]

43 minutes ago, Benice said:

Yep. He is really that bad. Assuming Roy is capped out before promotion, he will have 42 physical bulk, (41 w/wtd, which he will be facing a lot) Taking ch. 21 as an example, generic wyvern riders will have more-or less these stats:

all the more reason BB should be Unbreakable, since that is his only saving grace in endgame. (super good Prf weapon)

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Why would Eckesachs choose exclusively the king of Bern and not Roy, the inheritor of Hartmut's other sword?

because roy would look silly using it since its even bigger than durandal duh :v

 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

What would be useful though? Just a generally strong sword?

Regal sword maybe? by virtue of champion sword headcanon .  

1 hour ago, Whisky said:

One potential way to attempt to balance unbreakable Divine Weapons, could be to have them start weaker and grow stronger with each one you get. Again, I wouldn’t consider this an improvement, just different. You would have an unbreakable weapon but it wouldn’t be super strong. As it is now, you get the super strong Durandal and can choose to use it when in a tight spot or up against a powerful boss, or ration it for later. This puts the choice on the player and is an aspect of resource management. That’s why I like the Divine Weapons how they are now

i have that same idea, but might have to tweak the lore tho, should be easy if they choose to expand the 8 Divine general story in paralogue of some kind (like how they become close comrade, and their soul memory triggering again when all 8 weapon gathered, thus unlocking their full potential)

[German FE Nino]

I mean, Eckesachs is already special among the weapons because it is the only one not effective against dragons, just that it has enough might to get through their defense. Many people often say "Yo, lorewise it is effective, it just is not programmed in because Zephiel never fights dragons". And to that, I will say fae fights him, so point instantly invalid. I would just assume it was specifically made to be Hartmuts personal sword and that is why its functions are diffrent and the seal on it was not a physical one like the other weapons, but rather that only his successors can use it which explains why it has diffrent conditions for its use.

[Whisky]

22 minutes ago, German FE Nino said:

And to that, I will say fae fights him, so point instantly invalid.

Fae is a special type of dragon though, a Divine Dragon. The other Divine Weapons don’t appear to be effective against Divine Dragons either since they aren’t effective against Idoun, only the Binding Blade is.