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What changes would you make to Binding Blade in a potential remake?


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6 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

That...might be a good idea, given that the Fire Emblem portion of the conversation had become a minority of the word count.

 

Hahahah yep, sure did say that, definitely want it continually associated with me.

I have more recently pointed out how only full blooded manaketes could transform into dragons until...well, FE7, the worst game ever made. So while it may be canon to Elibe, it's still stupid and only applies when the writers throw away all concept of effort and deliberation.

 

It is best game. I wouldn't even mind additions like turnwheels which may significantly alter how you play, but they smooth things over rather than break them.

 

Then they would be wrong!

FE6 is pretty good, I think it's a lot closer to what people would consider a "good Fire Emblem game" than Gaiden was. Gaiden really shows its age throughout its design choices, I think Binding Blade doesn't need many updates to be enjoyable for new players. That, and I think remakes are obligated to be closer to the original than not.

 

This would be good.

 

nick-young-meme_zqggxy.png&f=1&nofb=1

disapproving-corgis-5.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

There are just to many units in fe6, I shouldn't have to bench them as soon they join me. It is also too long to beat some of the later levels to the point that it can become a chore to play through

Edited by MSAtlos
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4 minutes ago, MSAtlos said:

There are just to many units in fe6, I shouldn't have to bench them as soon they join me

But...  every post NES FE has limited deployment, barring SoV, unless I am mistaken-moreunits allows for more versatility and customization without sacrificing enemy quality, (like what happened to Three Houses).

Anyways, I probably have said these already but...

  • Buff the brave axe's hit by 5
  • Buff lances a fair bit, since they really badly got the short end of the stick.
  • Have Bors join with an axereaver, (if nothing else) so he stands something of a fighting chance...
Edited by Benice
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16 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

disapproving-corgis-5.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

 

Hahaha. I love this reply. I am also confused by what it was responding to. Binding Blade, a test of patience? Binding Blade plays so smoothly though. FE7 has Battle Before Dawn, Sands of Time, mass enemy spam in a lot of maps, and a lot more FOW maps too. I don’t understand the love for that game.

I of course agree with you that Binding Blade is the best game.

I don’t like the idea of Turn Wheel being in Binding Blade, but maybe if it’s optional. I’ve played an Ironman of Binding Blade fairly recently. I lost some really good units like Miledy and Lalum (which forced me to kill Percival), it was more challenging moving forward but I still beat the game (not the secret ending, but I beat Zephiel). The game is designed well for permadeath. You can lose units and continue on without them. If Divine Pulse was in the game, I probably wouldn’t have lost any units at all. It would become easy.

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1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

 

I have more recently pointed out how only full blooded manaketes could transform into dragons until...well, FE7, the worst game ever made. So while it may be canon to Elibe, it's still stupid and only applies when the writers throw away all concept of effort and deliberation.

 

Isn't

Spoiler

Al not a full blooded manakete but he can transform?

(Granted different continuity? I think, that FE6 Champion's Sword Manga is weird.)

We were discussing that Manga a bit (none of us have read it but I did read a bit online about it.) since apparently

Spoiler

Al Can suddenly  become a dragon later in the manga and it apparently heavily screws things up in the Elibe continutiy

 and my friend suggested as basically a similar thing but it doesn't come out of nowhere since you have to sorta set it up in the prequel and well, Roy is kinda weak.

Do they ever imply non-full blooded manaketes can't transform in 6?,I know Wyverns are apparently slightly different in the game's continuities if I remember, in some of them they're degenerated dragons. (Yet I don't think that's ever mentioned in the Elibe games and it sounds like something that would if it was.) Magic works differently in some of the continuities if I remember. 

(That's kinda the problem I guess with multiple continuities but alot of similar stuff, You're not too sure which applies to which continuity.)

Not a big fan of the Turn wheel, I honestly abused it too much in Echoes and I'd prefer not having the option. (And I know in Three Houses it's used as a crutch for terrible level design, in addition to Byleth forgetting about it in the plot.), Design a game that doesn't need a turnwheel, it's way too tempting to abuse and it's literally refilled for free after a single battle.

I do think maybe a few maps need a few small changes. (Such as the "I'm going to instant kill Sophia!" Wyverns in Nabata that you can only see ahead of time with a thief using a torch sometimes.) but the game is mostly fine, if admittingly clearly expecting you to already know how to play FE going in.

Edited by Samz707
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8 hours ago, Benice said:

or maybe he has innately high magic from Ninian,

The problem with doing that is that in the original FE6, Ceclila states in her support with Lilina that Roy had almost no skill with magic, so changing it in a remake would change what is canon.

5 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I have more recently pointed out how only full blooded manaketes could transform into dragons until...well, FE7, the worst game ever made. So while it may be canon to Elibe, it's still stupid and only applies when the writers throw away all concept of effort and deliberation.

And that was only half-dragons. Roy is a quarter dragon if Ninian x Eliwood is canon.

8 hours ago, Benice said:

Or maybe he can ride wyverns or something

I can't see Roy riding wyverns, because wyverns come from Bern, who is kinda the main protagonist for the majority of the game, and Roy had never really been to Bern, so he would never have had training riding one.

 

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27 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

The problem with doing that is that in the original FE6, Ceclila states in her support with Lilina that Roy had almost no skill with magic, so changing it in a remake would change what is canon.

Hm, true. Maybe he can use a different sort of power that stems from his bloodline, like Sorcerers from D&D? A different direction would probably be better, though.

35 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

I can't see Roy riding wyverns, because wyverns come from Bern, who is kinda the main protagonist for the majority of the game, and Roy had never really been to Bern, so he would never have had training riding one.

True, but one of the themes in FE6 is, (at least as far as I can tell) legacy being about what you stand for and what you do rather than your bloodline-Such as Roy being paralleled to Hartmut despite Zephiel being Hartmut's decendant, so something that has to do with wyvens might help reinforce the point? Even though actually riding one could be a stretch... Maybe if there was a thing about a wyvern that will only allow a descendant of Hartmut to ride it?

I dunno. I just kinda want him to get a really good promotion...

Ooh! What if he actually had three tiers of promotion? Like, he promotes to great lord after ch. 16 when he becomes the leader of the Etrurian army, then again after defeating Murdock or something?

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5 hours ago, MSAtlos said:

There are just to many units in fe6, I shouldn't have to bench them as soon they join me it is also too long to beat some of the later levels

Benching units early just means you have choice about which units to use early on. That's a clear strength of FE6 compared to other games.

7 hours ago, Whisky said:

Hahaha. I love this reply. I am also confused by what it was responding to. Binding Blade, a test of patience? Binding Blade plays so smoothly though. FE7 has Battle Before Dawn, Sands of Time, mass enemy spam in a lot of maps, and a lot more FOW maps too. I don’t understand the love for that game.

I of course agree with you that Binding Blade is the best game.

I thought it was funny how we spent a third of a page arguing about the merits of balance and then someone comes in and says the game needed more balance.

It is a masterpiece of a game, of course. I don't think a turnwheel would destroy its difficulty or anything. FE6 doesn't call out for one, but it's a fairly hard game and a few rewinds wouldn't do too much to mitigate that. Maybe I'm just bad, though. I haven't played Three Houses, but from what I understand the problem with Divine Pulse is that it's used as a chapter design crutch to justify nonsense. FE6 is already a well designed game though, so it might cut out a few full-chapter resets but it wouldn't warp the game around it, since it's a layer on top.

7 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Do they ever imply non-full blooded manaketes can't transform in 6?

While I can't speak for the inferior manga continuity, I think FE6 implies it by having no half-blood dragons transform. I think Sofia even makes explicit reference to having a dragonstone in one of her supports but she can't use it in gameplay.

2 hours ago, Benice said:

True, but one of the themes in FE6 is, (at least as far as I can tell) legacy being about what you stand for and what you do rather than your bloodline-Such as Roy being paralleled to Hartmut despite Zephiel being Hartmut's decendant, so something that has to do with wyvens might help reinforce the point? Even though actually riding one could be a stretch... Maybe if there was a thing about a wyvern that will only allow a descendant of Hartmut to ride it?

Seems like the sort of thing you'd get in Chapter 20-something.

Roy's promotion bonuses are underwhelming by FE6's superior promotion bonus standard, but I actually think they're fine. Using Roy as a primary combat unit is never going to be ideal but having the ability to work towards his level cap with more than a few chapters left would be nice. Perhaps it would make him too resilient to getting picked off by enemies (FE6 is essentially a series of escort missions), but a regularly trained Roy is already stocky enough to take a hit anyway.

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33 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I haven't played Three Houses, but from what I understand the problem with Divine Pulse is that it's used as a chapter design crutch to justify nonsense.

From what I have played, (which is very little, only the first seven chapters with no grinding on Hard) this is somewhat true, (HECKIN' AGGRO LINES BEING MORE LIKE AGGRO LIES) although on non-maddening modes, the game is generally easy enough that you wouldn't need it-Except for this one map where your units randomly get redeployed into a new location, which can be in enemy range-This killed one of my units, as it moved her from a safe location into an archer's range.

35 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

aps it would make him too resilient to getting picked off by enemies (FE6 is essentially a series of escort missions), but a regularly trained Roy is already stocky enough to take a hit anyway.

I feel like, as a fellow lover of FE6, Roy could stand to be a better unit-I don't think he should Ike it, but I feel like he should be able to hold his own at multiple points, hence why I suggested maybe Roy getting three tiers of promotion compared to everyone else's 2? I dunno, it is kinda annoying for Roy to somewhat reasonably be OHKO'd by a siege tome, and FE6 does use quite a few, (which I don't feel is a flaw, aside from a few ambush spawn ones.) I feel like Roy could also stand to have a skill that makes him useful outside of combat? (You know, if they made FE6 a bit more like Berwick, giving him the Commander skill could be really helpful... But nah, they'd never do that.)

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9 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

The problem with doing that is that in the original FE6, Ceclila states in her support with Lilina that Roy had almost no skill with magic, so changing it in a remake would change what is canon.

And that was only half-dragons. Roy is a quarter dragon if Ninian x Eliwood is canon.

I can't see Roy riding wyverns, because wyverns come from Bern, who is kinda the main protagonist for the majority of the game, and Roy had never really been to Bern, so he would never have had training riding one.

 

If they go the full mile I guess with any FE7 Remake save-link stuff, maybe Roy still has no skill in magic normally but if Ninian's his mother then he has skill in magic perhaps? so that bit stays the same and only changes if Ninian is his mother? so it stays like the original for every other possible version. (Including No FE7 save link)

Granted, it'd mean it'd be more difficult to make another game set in Elibe if there's a good few changes depending on Roy's Parents  but, ehhh if Awakening is the series standard for sequels to previous continuities, I can live with only two games set in Elibe. 

Just spit-balling here as I'm not really too sure myself.

Edited by Samz707
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9 hours ago, Benice said:

I dunno. I just kinda want him to get a really good promotion...

We could give him a horse like Eliwood. Promoting him in ch 16 to a horse would do wonders for him. Giving him lances would help too.

1 hour ago, Samz707 said:

but if Ninian's his mother then he has skill in magic perhaps?

But why would he have more skill in magic if his mother was Ninian? There is no evidence given I believe in FE6 that dragons are necessarily better at magic then humans are, and Ninian doesn't exactly know magic herself.

1 hour ago, Samz707 said:

FE7 Remake save-link stuff,

 

9 hours ago, Benice said:

I dunno. I just kinda want him to get a really good promotion...

OOHHH!!!! If you want a good save-link, why not have it this way. If Fiora is Roy's mother, Roy promotes to having a pegasus and getting lances and swords. If Lyn was Roy's mother, then Roy promotes to having a horse and bows. If Ninian is Roy's mother, then he can promote to a horse and lances like he would with no mother specified, but he has a slightly higher speed and resistance base at the beginning of the game. If no mother is specified, then he is normal and promotes to a horse and lances.

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It is already very much implied that Ninian IS Roys mother, through Eliwoods relationship to her to the point of waifuing her with him being a diffrent ending, FEH giving her Iceflowers as a reference to Rliwood giving Roys mother some in the backstory and Roys growths being worse than Eliwoods except for luck...which is a usually high stat for dancers like Ninian. So the entire savelink-idea here does not work in context because nothing changes if one pairs eliwood with Ninian.

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I actually believe that making Roy not a great combat unit was a deliberate choice by the creators, instead he's supposed to shine as a tactical leader. So what about making Roy basically a rally bot? Would make him more useful yet doesn't change the gameplay too much.

On 9/19/2020 at 3:16 PM, Hello72207 said:

OOHHH!!!! If you want a good save-link, why not have it this way. If Fiora is Roy's mother, Roy promotes to having a pegasus and getting lances and swords. If Lyn was Roy's mother, then Roy promotes to having a horse and bows. If Ninian is Roy's mother, then he can promote to a horse and lances like he would with no mother specified, but he has a slightly higher speed and resistance base at the beginning of the game. If no mother is specified, then he is normal and promotes to a horse and lances.

What about giving Roy a sworddance ability is Ninian is his mother? I like the other ideas though. Also have his stats be different for each mother. Both his bases and growths could just be father base stat and growth + mother base stat and growth /2.

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18 minutes ago, whase said:

Both his bases and growths could just be father base stat and growth + mother base stat and growth /2.

The problem with that is that if Ninian is his mother, Roy would have horrific str/skl compared to the other mothers due to a 0 base and 5% growth from his mother, while having absolutely ridiculous Res and speed, making him an overkill version of Fiora or Lyn mother. I'd really in a remake just like it if Roy got a horse on promotion and they mentioned the mother's name with a link, without causing ridiculous stat changes. In a BB remake I'd really just like it if Roy promoted after even chapter 16, and got a horse on promotion, along with slightly better bases.

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Gonna share 2 new takes for this thread:

1-  "Lilina" Mode for the game (a.k.a a more politic-oriented story): So I think I saw this suggestion on reddit or 4chan about a Lilina mode, where it's basically like Hector mode (new maps, changing old maps, different cutscenes and so on), but the reason why I even want to suggest this, is because how I love both the more "mystical, dragon, backstory" lore from the game, but at the same time, I also love my worldbuilding with different cultures and how the nations of Elibe are interacting with each other under the new "Disturbance of Bern" thing going on. It can be any character rather than Lilina, I just thought of her because well, she's the daughter of the Marquess of Ostia, so why not? Unless you want to have Cecila or Merlinus as better alternatives...

Basically:

Roy Mode: The first priority of the story is about the Dragons, the Scouring, the Divine Weapons, and having the most cutscenes related to Zephiel and Bern... because well, they're the main bad guys right? Still keeping the nice worldbuilding aspect of the story.

Lilina Mode: Basically the opposite: Talks about the worldbuilding and the culture, giving more of a spotlight to the other nations rather than only Bern, having some interesting cutscenes about the interactions between each nation and their leaders and such. Still keeping the nice "mystique" aspect of the story. (I mean, they both still end the same, but the journey is different)

2- Gaiden Chapters but better: They are easily some of the worst parts of the game imo, they always have some dumb gimmick that actually is not really dangerous, just annoying, and they are very tedious to play, either because of the length of the map itself, or because of the annoying gimmick that they pull off (Looking at you Sacae Gaiden). 

Either make the maps shorter, or change the current objective for something else (would be a nice change of pace from only seizing eh?) Like, maybe a "Defeat the Boss" on the Armads Caverns? (he isn't on a throne btw). Or maybe a "Whack the Bolting Mage" so after you defeat 3-4 bolting mages on the Forblaze Water Temple (bolting mages should have bad stats), you unlock a way to go to the Throne Room and beat up Oates. Just some ideas I had in my head.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/19/2020 at 1:42 PM, Benice said:

I feel like Roy could also stand to have a skill that makes him useful outside of combat? (You know, if they made FE6 a bit more like Berwick, giving him the Commander skill could be really helpful... But nah, they'd never do that.)

commander skill like the one in Valkyria Chronicles game, which buff, temporary heals, or giving whatever advantage with limited use ? now thats something i could see implemented in FE games.
i also think that Roy dont have to be most powerful unit/lord. heck, he doesnt have to as powerful as eliwood for that matter.

 

being a good commander actually more fitting since he was studying in under a general before game event, and IIRC in champion sword manga theres a talk about how despite being so young he's managing/commanding a large army from everywhere

On 9/25/2020 at 7:33 AM, Arte71 said:

2- Gaiden Chapters but better: They are easily some of the worst parts of the game imo, they always have some dumb gimmick that actually is not really dangerous, just annoying, and they are very tedious to play, either because of the length of the map itself, or because of the annoying gimmick that they pull off (Looking at you Sacae Gaiden).

either they remake the maps and/or change the prerequisites to access it. anything important that easily missable or cant be achieved without a walkthrough is always getting criticized as bad point (by today standards,... not mine okay?)

Feels like Lilina route is a given if original Binding blade created after FE7 or FE8. dunno why she wasnt important to plot even tho she's featured heavily in cover

Edited by joevar
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22 minutes ago, joevar said:

i also think that Roy dont have to be most powerful unit/lord. heck, he doesnt have to as powerful as eliwood for that matter.

No, I agree about this. I simply think he'd need something to make him good from a support standpoint.

On 9/24/2020 at 5:33 PM, Arte71 said:

Gaiden Chapters but better: They are easily some of the worst parts of the game imo, they always have some dumb gimmick that actually is not really dangerous, just annoying,

Yep. I agree 100%, the gaidens are all something of a mark on FE6's map design. Well, the armads one is okay, but the rest are not. I'd also like gaiden requirements to be made very clear, or to be automatically unlocked.

On 9/24/2020 at 5:33 PM, Arte71 said:

or change the current objective for something else (would be a nice change of pace from only seizing eh?)

Indeed-I think FE6 could stand to have more defense maps and the like. I personally don't mind Sieze every time, as they manage to do it differently enough that it doesn't feel like you're playing the same chapter every time, but a variety of objectives certainly wouldn't hurt unless they make everything rout.

Edited by Benice
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On 8/26/2020 at 3:33 AM, ping said:

Even Roy/Lilina is never been "confirmed"

it is tho (at least to me), by that FE cipher double page artwork featuring both of them with their divine weapon (meaning its endgame/post-game, not just them being childhood friend before war). iirc roy&lilina duo is based on marth&caeda. unless you want to argue cipher is not supervised by IS...

27 minutes ago, Benice said:

No, I agree about this.

wait what?? confused which you agree and not

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2 minutes ago, joevar said:

wait what?? confused which you agree and not

I agreed with your statement that Roy doesn't have to be a really good unit, only a good support unit. Sorry about the confusion!

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2 hours ago, Benice said:

No, I agree about this. I simply think he'd need something to make him good from a support standpoint.

Yep. I agree 100%, the gaidens are all something of a mark on FE6's map design. Well, the armads one is okay, but the rest are not. I'd also like gaiden requirements to be made very clear, or to be automatically unlocked.

 

Yeah I agree, while I do like FE6, the game almost never warns you about Gaidens til' you get the message that the area has been sealed and such. (totally never had to restart a chapter because I wasn't even aware it had a Gaiden.)

 

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On 9/25/2020 at 7:33 AM, Arte71 said:

Gonna share 2 new takes for this thread:

1-  "Lilina" Mode for the game (a.k.a a more politic-oriented story): So I think I saw this suggestion on reddit or 4chan about a Lilina mode, where it's basically like Hector mode (new maps, changing old maps, different cutscenes and so on), but the reason why I even want to suggest this, is because how I love both the more "mystical, dragon, backstory" lore from the game, but at the same time, I also love my worldbuilding with different cultures and how the nations of Elibe are interacting with each other under the new "Disturbance of Bern" thing going on. It can be any character rather than Lilina, I just thought of her because well, she's the daughter of the Marquess of Ostia, so why not? Unless you want to have Cecila or Merlinus as better alternatives...

Basically:

Roy Mode: The first priority of the story is about the Dragons, the Scouring, the Divine Weapons, and having the most cutscenes related to Zephiel and Bern... because well, they're the main bad guys right? Still keeping the nice worldbuilding aspect of the story.

Lilina Mode: Basically the opposite: Talks about the worldbuilding and the culture, giving more of a spotlight to the other nations rather than only Bern, having some interesting cutscenes about the interactions between each nation and their leaders and such. Still keeping the nice "mystique" aspect of the story. (I mean, they both still end the same, but the journey is different)

im really interested in this idea.
But if they decide to make Roy & lilina route, how do you guys want it handled? Is it like Echoes SoV/Sacred stone split-parallel story path, the same-y but different blazing blade, or branching story path like Three house? *Didnt play Radiant dawn yet, dunno how the split plays

given that there are 54 playable unit, if you split it half, theres 27. thats still more than average unit count in 3H first playthru. but if the end still same it could lead to problem at the end of lilina route. Unless you want to pull Crimson flower Ending which putting down the big bad guy off-screen you just cant defeat Idunn without putting Roy in the spotlight.
No, this not argument about Lilina is a weak girl who cant wield BB (she can still turn you to ash in second with forblaze), its just that Roy is the inheritor of Hartmut's will

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1. Buff Roy in general. Yes it makes sense that he has low stats because he’s just a kid, but it’s no fun not being able to really use him until much later on.

2. Better supports. I really think they should focus on making the characters and story better.

3. Better hit rates.

4. Keep ambush spawn in harder game modes.

5. Better endings. Give better closure to different endings.


 

 

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Just now, German FE Nino said:

They kinda already do this in my eyes, but I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Well, giving it the SoV treatment would go a long way-More accessible supports and voice acting would make a huge difference. Well, that and axing Merlinus' role a lot..

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1 hour ago, Benice said:

Well, giving it the SoV treatment would go a long way-More accessible supports and voice acting would make a huge difference. Well, that and axing Merlinus' role a lot..

I think maybe giving some of his dialogue to other characters talking to Roy could work, Merlinus would still exist as the "Default" for if the character is dead but giving Marcus and other characters dialogue could work.

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