Special Heroes Silhouettes (July 8th)

[Othin]

34 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

If it's Sylvain and Ingrid, Felix kind of feels like he'd get in to. In the Blue Lions, those three were kind of their own little friend group, as I recall. But then that'd mean 3 of the 4 units in the banner would be units whose base forms are not in the game yet. Not that that matters, considering every other seasonal banner seems to give us at least one such unit, so who's gonna notice it when THREE such units get in...

I could see them going the easy route and picking up Summer F!Byleth because "one girl on a summer banner? Not in this house."

4 of the 5 units on the 2019 bride lineup were new, so it's not impossible.

[Sunwoo]

The dudes of Blue Lions did very well in CYL4, if I recall correctly, so perhaps IS thinks THIS particular male-dominated banner will sell. Another theory I have is that the house will be Blue Lions-dominated, and we'll get Duo Dimitri+Dedue instead of a Harmonized Hero. Sylvain, Ingrid, Ashe, and Felix will be the others.

I'm probably wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is what we get. Sylvain, Ashe, Felix, and Dimitri were all high-scorers. And their fault for putting Annette and Mercedes out so early but none of the non-Dimitri dudes anyway.

[Anacybele]

8 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

The dudes of Blue Lions did very well in CYL4, if I recall correctly, so perhaps IS thinks THIS particular male-dominated banner will sell. Another theory I have is that the house will be Blue Lions-dominated, and we'll get Duo Dimitri+Dedue instead of a Harmonized Hero. Sylvain, Ingrid, Ashe, and Felix will be the others.

I'm probably wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is what we get. Sylvain, Ashe, Felix, and Dimitri were all high-scorers. And their fault for putting Annette and Mercedes out so early but none of the non-Dimitri dudes anyway.

Yeah, I rather agree. Though in IS's defense, they were probably planning on Mercedes and Annette before they really knew how popular the Blue Lions guys sans Dedue were.

[Sunwoo]

Their fault for assuming "hurr durr girl always sell well" and not giving any of the dudes who did get in (except for m!Byleth) as good skills as their female counterparts

[Othin]

10 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

The dudes of Blue Lions did very well in CYL4, if I recall correctly, so perhaps IS thinks THIS particular male-dominated banner will sell. Another theory I have is that the house will be Blue Lions-dominated, and we'll get Duo Dimitri+Dedue instead of a Harmonized Hero. Sylvain, Ingrid, Ashe, and Felix will be the others.

I'm probably wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is what we get. Sylvain, Ashe, Felix, and Dimitri were all high-scorers. And their fault for putting Annette and Mercedes out so early but none of the non-Dimitri dudes anyway.

I don't want to set my hopes that high, but that'd be pretty great.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Their fault for assuming "hurr durr girl always sell well" and not giving any of the dudes who did get in (except for m!Byleth) as good skills as their female counterparts

True too. I never did understand why they only give the popular girls such great treatment and don't so much do the same for the popular guys.

[CustardPudding]

17 hours ago, zuibangde said:

For some reason I thought the girl on the right is Patty... lol

If it was all my orbs would be gone lol

[Gregster101]

17 hours ago, zuibangde said:

For some reason I thought the girl on the right is Patty... lol

God I wish it was Patty

[charmedx3]

2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

No way, Sylvain will definitely get screwed if he's the TT unit. I'd much rather see Felix get screwed since I don't like him. Free units almost always get shit stats and skills.

It looks like I will not be able to pull on the banner anyway because my card suddenly does not work anymore and I don't have any orbs after I was looking for Elincia merges on the revival banner.

Oh wow, I never thought I'd see another person that favors both those pairings! Awesome to hear!

Yeah! The feeling is the same! 😄I wish our pairings were more popular (although thankfully I've seen a good fair amount of Sylvain with Byleth mostly by Japanese artists, probably her most popular ship outside of the three lords, but not that much of Fred and Robin because Chrom -.-). 

Can't wait for tonight's announcement and that it doesn't let us down! 

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

No way, Sylvain will definitely get screwed if he's the TT unit. I'd much rather see Felix get screwed since I don't like him. Free units almost always get shit stats and skills.

While free units generally get less than desirable skills, their stat distribution is not shit and is more than viable. Heroes have not released units like Henry and Felicia in a long while. SP!Rhys got good HP and Res, stats for support units where it matters the most. Iago similarly got high HP to do his job well, and got decent enough Res to do Sabotages as well. TSOIA!Minerva, Bartre, Travant, etc. got relatively minmaxed stats, and Heath got a well rounded stat distribution to fill a variety of roles.

[Tybrosion]

22 minutes ago, XRay said:

TSOIA!Minerva, Bartre, Travant, etc. got relatively minmaxed stats, and Heath got a well rounded stat distribution to fill a variety of roles.

Yeah with all due respect, there is no saving Travant when Altena exists and can do anything he can do better (given that she has nearly the exact same stat line but can get IVs, which of course includes a +4 Def asset on top of the +3 Earthly Gae Bolg gives).

That's probably part of the reason why Travant is currently the only Book IV unit at the bottom of the GamePress tier list.

[Vicious Sal]

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

No way, Sylvain will definitely get screwed if he's the TT unit. I'd much rather see Felix get screwed since I don't like him. Free units almost always get shit stats and skills.

 

 

Pretty much all recent free units are decent to amazing. They don’t have decked out kits but still are far from unusable. Many have great prf weapons as well. Travant is the most recent heavily shafted free unit.

I’d rather not have Felix be the freeby, I have plenty sword infantry units, which he has a high chance of being if he is on the banner. 

Just put Sylvain as the TT, just so that people can whine about males always getting the short end of the stick. 

Or is Sylvain being the TT reward something you don’t want just because of the 2700 grail cost to +10 him?

[SirErrant]

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

The dudes of Blue Lions did very well in CYL4, if I recall correctly, so perhaps IS thinks THIS particular male-dominated banner will sell. Another theory I have is that the house will be Blue Lions-dominated, and we'll get Duo Dimitri+Dedue instead of a Harmonized Hero. Sylvain, Ingrid, Ashe, and Felix will be the others.

I'm probably wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is what we get. Sylvain, Ashe, Felix, and Dimitri were all high-scorers. And their fault for putting Annette and Mercedes out so early but none of the non-Dimitri dudes anyway.

If this actually happens, I literally will not have any orbs left for Brave Dimitri. It sucks to be a F2P player sometimes...

 

32 minutes ago, XRay said:

While free units generally get less than desirable skills, their stat distribution is not shit and is more than viable. Heroes have not released units like Henry and Felicia in a long while. SP!Rhys got good HP and Res, stats for support units where it matters the most. Iago similarly got high HP to do his job well, and got decent enough Res to do Sabotages as well. TSOIA!Minerva, Bartre, Travant, etc. got relatively minmaxed stats, and Heath got a well rounded stat distribution to fill a variety of roles.

Still, you can't deny that free units get the short end of the stick when it comes to stats. I can't name any free unit off the top of my head that's just as good or better than any of the summoning units from the same banner. 

[Anacybele]

50 minutes ago, XRay said:

While free units generally get less than desirable skills, their stat distribution is not shit and is more than viable. Heroes have not released units like Henry and Felicia in a long while. SP!Rhys got good HP and Res, stats for support units where it matters the most. Iago similarly got high HP to do his job well, and got decent enough Res to do Sabotages as well. TSOIA!Minerva, Bartre, Travant, etc. got relatively minmaxed stats, and Heath got a well rounded stat distribution to fill a variety of roles.

 

16 minutes ago, SirErrant said:

Still, you can't deny that free units get the short end of the stick when it comes to stats. I can't name any free unit off the top of my head that's just as good or better than any of the summoning units from the same banner. 

Pretty much this, yeah. Also don't forget that Sylvain is a male. Males especially get the short end of the stick. Even if they're popular (see Forrest, for example). There ARE a few free units that have been good (not counting stuff like CYL units and RD Ike and Altina, of course), but not many.

Oh yeah, another reason I'd like Felix to be the freebie is because he could be an infantry sword user and there are already so many of those in the pool.

1 hour ago, charmedx3 said:

Yeah! The feeling is the same! 😄I wish our pairings were more popular (although thankfully I've seen a good fair amount of Sylvain with Byleth mostly by Japanese artists, probably her most popular ship outside of the three lords, but not that much of Fred and Robin because Chrom -.-). 

Can't wait for tonight's announcement and that it doesn't let us down! 

Yeah, same. The only popular FE pairing I really like is Ike x Elincia. And I wouldn't say they're extremely popular, just fairly so.

Yes, indeed!

[Hilda]

42 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

 

Pretty much all recent free units are decent to amazing. They don’t have decked out kits but still are far from unusable. Many have great prf weapons as well. Travant is the most recent heavily shafted free unit.

I’d rather not have Felix be the freeby, I have plenty sword infantry units, which he has a high chance of being if he is on the banner. 

Just put Sylvain as the TT, just so that people can whine about males always getting the short end of the stick. 

Or is Sylvain being the TT reward something you don’t want just because of the 2700 grail cost to +10 him?

If Felix is on this banner my orbs are gone ._.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

Yeah with all due respect, there is no saving Travant when Altena exists and can do anything he can do better (given that she has nearly the exact same stat line but can get IVs, which of course includes a +4 Def asset on top of the +3 Earthly Gae Bolg gives).

That's probably part of the reason why Travant is currently the only Book IV unit at the bottom of the GamePress tier list.

Travant's performance is near identical to Altena's. Players have access to skills to fine tune the performance of their units where small variations in base stats simply does not matter for Enemy Phase units. I have showed PROOF and EVIDENCE over and over and over and over and over so many freaking times already of why Travant's stat distribution being more than enough and sufficient, and I have yet to see anyone giving me proof and evidence otherwise. I have even done the rocket science already so people can just look at the numbers to see for themselves.

And I would not put too much stock in GamePress's tier list as it is kind of shit in my opinion.

If people want to say Travant's stat distribution is shit, then they better back it up with proof and evidence instead of parroting whatever nonsense GamePress is putting up.

 Calculator

Challenger List: Against Hard List, no ranged and no green enemies. Both sides +10 with 6/6/6/6 bonus buffs.

Spoiler

CHALLENGER LIST  
Travant (5*+10)  
Weapon: Reprisal Lance+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Sturdy Stance 3  
B: Dull Close 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
  
Altena (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Earthly Gae Bolg  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Sturdy Stance 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Sturdy Stance 2  

Travant 165:5:15
Altena 167:4:14

There is practically NO discernible difference in performance when they are used under normal circumstances.

Altena is better than Travant when you add green enemies to the mix, but that is not under normal circumstances as players normally do not pit regular tanks against the color they are weak against. And Travant is no slouch against greens either, as he is not dying significantly more than Altena, he just cannot secure as many green kills. Not securing green kills is an issue, but it is not a significant issue because the only time a player shoves a unit into frequent combat against a stronger color is when the unit is a Counter-Vantage unit or is a super tank. Altena and Travant do not make good super tanks in my opinion due to flier weakness, so their performance against green units have much less weight than their performance against red, blue, and colorless enemies.

Challenger List: Against Hard List, with green enemies but no ranged enemies. Both sides +10 with 6/6/6/6 bonus buffs.
Travant 185:13:59
Altena 205:11:41

53 minutes ago, SirErrant said:

Still, you can't deny that free units get the short end of the stick when it comes to stats. I can't name any free unit off the top of my head that's just as good or better than any of the summoning units from the same banner. 

I am denying it because "free units getting the short end of the stick when it comes to stats" simply is not true. If anything, people here are denying Travant is anywhere as good as Altena, simply because he does not have access to more natures nor an exclusive Weapon. I call that argument absolute bull crap, and I have brought proof and evidence that natures and flashy exclusive Weapons are not the end all and be all of combat performance. Some people here get so caught up in the superficial appearances and cosmetics of exclusive Weapons or overestimate the impact of natures, and they do not bother to actually check how much those things matter or how it can be simulated through other skills and set ups.

Bring me proof and evidence to back up the claim where Travant sucks. As far as I know, NO ONE has ever done so.

Travant is absolutely usable and not screwed over, and people who are denying it have not spent the time and effort to actually make him usable. If players can make shitty Counter-Vantage units with 75 Atk work in Aether Raids, they can make Travant work.

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Pretty much this, yeah. Also don't forget that Sylvain is a male. Males especially get the short end of the stick. Even if they're popular (see Forrest, for example). There ARE a few free units that have been good (not counting stuff like CYL units and RD Ike and Altina, of course), but not many.

Forrest is not screwed over. He has 35 base Res, which is amongst the highest for support units. The only support unit with higher base Res is BB!Rafiel with 41 and Wrys with 36; BB!Rafiel is going to be running Wings of Mercy as a Dancer/Singer so it is not like he is going to be using Sabotage anyways, and Wrys got less movement and cannot deal chip damage. All Forrest needs to do is heal and Sabotage, and that is it. Since he is not infantry nor flier, he does not need a high HP stat either since he cannot run Sudden Panic nor Infantry Pulse. He also got cavalry movement to get to places quickly, and he can better line up Ploys if players want to cheap out on his C skill. Not every healer needs to be a Firesweep nuke to kill stuff.

[Anacybele]

25 minutes ago, XRay said:

Forrest is not screwed over.

Sorry, but I still disagree and I've seen people in the past disagree with this too.

[Xenomata]

24 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Sorry, but I still disagree and I've seen people in the past disagree with this too.

I have to disagree with that. Speaking as someone who uses Wrys (who Forrest matches pretty evenly in stats), Forrest has a number of advantages over Wrys while serving the same role of debuffer, and you don't know what it means to be weakened when you are guaranteed to be Sabotage Atk'd because no one has more than 54 Res.
Forrest is Wrys, but missing a few points of Res, which really isn't even that big a deal considering how much Res is needed. And I have to think that those who disagree are people who don't use debuffers.

@XRay I argue that Travant's base skill kit sucks, and that's where most people draw the line. Silver Lance+, Ignis, Vantage, and Flier Guidance you have to admit are pretty shoddy skills, so you're basically starting from nothing to make Travant match his adopted daughter.
The only "free" units who I say were truly screwed in stats were the earliest free units, when the game was still dedicated to making units match a certain appearance compared to simply making strong units as they do now.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Xenomata

[XRay]

10 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Sorry, but I still disagree and I've seen people in the past disagree with this too.

That is because they are trying to force a Forrest into a role that he is not suited for. Support units are not as flashy as combat units, but that does not mean they are not as important as combat units. Iago is not a super amazing combat unit either, but he does a really good job of debuffing enemies.

[Bankai]

17 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Sorry, but I still disagree and I've seen people in the past disagree with this too.

As someone who actually is working on building a +10 Forrest no he's not screwed over unless you count him just being a healer being bad. His performance is still good enough to take out most enemies outside of super res heavy units. Heck I've been soloing GHB with mostly just Forrest.

[Anacybele]

I seem to recall when Forrest first came out, people were going on about how he got shafted just like his dad (because Leo isn't great either).

[Xenomata]

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I seem to recall when Forrest first came out, people were going on about how he got shafted just like his dad (because Leo isn't great either).

That's most likely in comparison to the units he came out with, and that's not fair because every single demote unit gets similarly "shafted".

I don't even need to speak metaphorically, if you got the Sparking on his debut banner and had to choose between Forrest, Rinkah, Midori, and Lilith, most people aren't going to choose the person who doesn't have:

• A powerful weapon
• Powerful skill fodder
• Amazing stats (being compared to Wrys probably doesn't look good on a resume)
• An extent of rarity (Midori is currently the only other unit from that banner I have)

The generic mass public are all about initial appearances, they barely focus on the deeper levels of a units potential.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Xenomata

[Anacybele]

11 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

That's most likely in comparison to the units he came out with, and that's not fair because every single demote unit gets similarly "shafted".

I don't even need to speak metaphorically, if you got the Sparking on his debut banner and had to choose between Forrest, Rinkah, Midori, and Lilith, most people aren't going to choose the person who doesn't have:

• A powerful weapon
• Powerful skill fodder
• Amazing stats (being compared to Wrys probably doesn't look good on a resume)
• An extent of rarity (Midori is currently the only other unit from that banner I have)

The generic mass public are all about initial appearances, they barely focus on the deeper levels of a units potential.

Yeah, I suppose that's all true.

If Sylvain is the TT unit, it won't bother me much if he still has good stats anyway. Especially if he's good enough for Phoenixmaster to use in guides. 😛

[DLNarshen]

Travant (and other similar units) sucks because this is a game of finite resources and he offers no incentive for players to build him over cheaper, common-pool units that perform similarly or better.  Oversaturated meta-irrelevant class, no exclusive weapon, no special abilities, no special perks like high BST.   He is "usable" like nearly every character in this game, but players who aren't die-hard Travant and/or Ippei fans are generally looking for more than that.  Again excluding personal biases, I could never in good conscious recommend that someone invest a lot of resources into a unit like Travant...or Heath...or Haar...etc.  All those combat numbers above tell me is that if I really need a unit with that particular stat line and class, I'll invest in Altena and take my grails elsewhere.  

[Xenomata]

14 minutes ago, DLNarshen said:

Travant (and other similar units) sucks because this is a game of finite resources and he offers no incentive for players to build him over cheaper, common-pool units that perform similarly or better.  Oversaturated meta-irrelevant class, no exclusive weapon, no special abilities, no special perks like high BST.   He is "usable" like nearly every character in this game, but players who aren't die-hard Travant and/or Ippei fans are generally looking for more than that.  Again excluding personal biases, I could never in good conscious recommend that someone invest a lot of resources into a unit like Travant...or Heath...or Haar...etc.  All those combat numbers above tell me is that if I really need a unit with that particular stat line and class, I'll invest in Altena and take my grails elsewhere.  

That's still not fair to people like Anacy who prefer to focus on their favorite units more than who is considered the best (hell become one with heaven when the day comes that the two align) and if given the choice, yes I would rather focus on my favorite unit before the best unit.

You're looking at raw numbers and effects, code basically. You can do that anywhere, you don't need to also demoralize the people who just want to look at their favorite characters be awesome, at least not if they're not asking for it.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Xenomata