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New Heroes: Heroes, Light and Shadows

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4 hours ago, Sasori said:

Oh Lena, what did they do to you? First Forrest, then Em and now this. Why do they insist on making healers as boring as possible. Its like they only remember their boring day 1 staves. Her other skills are just as lame.

Forrest is perfectly usable. He is not a nuke, but his stat spread and mobility lets him do what he does well, which is support. He got one of the highest Res stats out of all the staff units and can use Sabotage Res really well. He also brings Fortress Res and Res Ploy to the 3*/4* pool.

Emmeryn is perfectly fine. In fact, she is more than fine in my opinion. With +HP, she got the highest HP out of all the staff units tying with Azama. High HP is invaluable on an infantry support unit since it means that they can Infantry Pulse other infantry units. Out of all the infantry staff units, she also got one of the highest offensive stat total at 66 (32+34), surpassed only by Loki (68=33+35) and Mikoto (67=35+32). She also brings Res Opening to the 3*/4* pool.

Not sure about Lena's stats, but she brings Atk Ploy into the 3*/4* pool.

Just because a unit was not built to match your specific play style does not mean Intelligent Systems screwed a unit over. That would be like me complaining about Edelgard being a shitty melee unit instead of being a ranged unit just because I hate using melee units.

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>Kris's banner

Aw man this is an easy skip, I don't care at all about 'em-

>Also Lena and Julian

Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff-

Kris is a sword infantry with Blade of Shadow (SC-1, if foe initiate/has 100% HP, neutralises penalties and gives them -5 Atk/Spd/Def), Noontime, HP/Spd 2, Spurn 3 (If unit faster, reduces damage by up to 40%. If unit has less than 76% HP, +5 damage when special triggers) and Joint Drive Atk (So he's a good fodder). Julian is a Colourless dagger with the Caltrop Dagger+ (Cav effectiveness, Disables attack priority (Screw you B!Ike), usual dagger debuff), Moonbow, Close Foil and Lull Atk/Spd (So he looks pretty decent actually and him colour sharing with Lena's nice). Lena's an infantry staff with Gravity, Recover, Heavenly Light, Def/Res 2 and Atk Ploy 3 (Please have good stats. You'll demote too). Finally Kris arrives as a lance infantry with Spear of Shadow (SC-1, if foe initiate/has 100% HP, neutralises penalties and gives them -5 Atk/Spd/Def), Moonbow, Fury 4, Spurn 3 and Rouse Spd/Res 3. Then we see Freyja is a green beast (:(). Also, turns out Eremiya is the GHB (Sweet.) And she's a staff? Why no mage?

Old Mystery was a better 10 year present. After three and a half years though, best Archanean character finally arrives. Also it's worst. Hopefully Lena's got stats to work with.

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I expect Lena to have around 32 Base Atk. I found a similar (not the same) 3* Blue Fáfnir in Book 4 Ch 8-1, and it has 13 Res. If my match is right, she should have 31-32 base Atk, 41-42 with Gravity equipped.

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One good reason I can think of to hold off on Nyna is to feature her alongside FE1 Hardin. Which could work as either a New Heroes banner or as seasonals. Speaking of seasonals, that could make it easier to add Xane, since it'd give a reason for him to not be doing his normal chameleon thing. 

I also want Elice as a face unit at some point, rather than just a duo secondary.

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1 minute ago, Othin said:

One good reason I can think of to hold off on Nyna is to feature her alongside FE1 Hardin. Which could work as either a New Heroes banner or as seasonals. Speaking of seasonals, that could make it easier to add Xane, since it'd give a reason for him to not be doing his normal chameleon thing. 

I also want Elice as a face unit at some point, rather than just a duo secondary.

Isn't the entire reason people even like Xane his chameleon thing? It's not like anyone in FE1/3 actually has a personality or any other reason to care.

Edited by Fabulously Olivier

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6 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Isn't the entire reason people even like Xane his chameleon thing? It's not like anyone in FE1/3 actually has a personality or any other reason to care.

Most Archeneans don't have much personality but Xane is an exception. He seems rather personable.

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Just now, Etrurian emperor said:

Most Archeneans don't have much personality but Xane is an exception. He seems rather personable.

Yeah Xane is one of the few Archanea characters to really have a personality along with Julian, Minerva, Merric, Hardin, etc.

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

Forrest is perfectly usable. He is not a nuke, but his stat spread and mobility lets him do what he does well, which is support. He got one of the highest Res stats out of all the staff units and can use Sabotage Res really well. He also brings Fortress Res and Res Ploy to the 3*/4* pool.

Emmeryn is perfectly fine. In fact, she is more than fine in my opinion. With +HP, she got the highest HP out of all the staff units tying with Azama. High HP is invaluable on an infantry support unit since it means that they can Infantry Pulse other infantry units. Out of all the infantry staff units, she also got one of the highest offensive stat total at 66 (32+34), surpassed only by Loki (68=33+35) and Mikoto (67=35+32). She also brings Res Opening to the 3*/4* pool.

Not sure about Lena's stats, but she brings Atk Ploy into the 3*/4* pool.

Just because a unit was not built to match your specific play style does not mean Intelligent Systems screwed a unit over. That would be like me complaining about Edelgard being a shitty melee unit instead of being a ranged unit just because I hate using melee units.

I could have worded it better, but my main complaint is not that the units are bad, but that they are very boring. Forrest and Lena’s kits are both mostly day 1 stuff. Day 1 staff, assist and special. They bring ploys, but those aren’t very new and exiting either. Fortress res is also old and not something you easily slap on someone.

There are other staves to create or to reuse. Such as Maribelle’s. These staves and assists are already available everywhere.

Its all very meh when compared to someone like Mustafa. If I don’t want to use him, then he has the ever useful bonfire, a new axe and def tactics. I think he and other non healers just add much more when they demote.

 

Edited by Sasori

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3 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

Whatever banner they're going to release, there are going to be people disappointed because "favourite x" wasn't on the banner, or it wasn't "title y" represented. So no, I don't think ignoring a part of a community, which Is has 0 interaction with anyway (when was the last time you saw people from IS at Serenes, r/fireemblem or the FeTube scene?) is going to hurt them very much, especially since Tellius hasn't been ignored, there have been plenty Tellius characters, it just so happens that they didn't line up with your specific preferences. So a minute part of the "community that they are actively ignoring" is mad, whereas a large portions just shrugs, and is happy with the Tellius they got. You're pretending you're a majority, when the opposite shows, it's a hand full of people here talking about "Muh Tellius Banner got robbed!" and the rest doesn't care, or is happy about something else getting in.

And to be fair, I don't really care all that much about the opinion of someone who calls me a goddamn jerk when they're acting like a spoiled three year old throwing a temper tantrum.

 

As I said before, if the game is not fun for you someone anymore in any way shape or form, because the game developer is "actively ignoring them" and whatever other reason there are to sap your own enjoyment of the game, why play? 

Well that's the thing. I don't honestly think people can complain "IntSys hates tellius" When there have been tellius characters added to the game this year. If people don't want to count that as being in the game. that's their own prerogative because i know there are a lot of people who would have been a heck of a lot happier had some of those "It doesn't count as tellius representation." seasonals had been from Judgral and not be Julia. honestly,

There are five months until the end of the year, November generally has two new heroes banners,  and by my count there are four games that could have a new hero banner - and allowing TMS to have another slot. (maybe with a FB this time). And the thing is when Tellius has a banner people would probably still be mad because SOMEONE got left off or it's not what it was expected or whatever. just take what the game gives you. if you don't like the banner. use your tickets and split.  just keep saving your orbs or whatever until they do have a banner.  

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Just now, Gregster101 said:

Yeah Xane is one of the few Archanea characters to really have a personality along with Julian, Minerva, Merric, Hardin, etc.

I still like to think of what FE would have been like if Minerva was the first lord over Marth. Wouldn't she make one Hell of a Smash rep and face of the franchise?

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@Anacybele NMotE and SD are a bit more distinct than that. I'd actually put them in pretty similar territory to RD and PoR. It's something like this:

FE1 (DDatSoL): Totally original game
FE3 (MotE) Book 1: remake of FE1 updated for the SNES
FE3 Book 2: Direct sequel to FE1/Book 1 featuring returning characters, new characters, and a continuation of plot points from FE1.
FE11 (SD): Remake of FE1
FE12 (NMotE): Remake and expansion of FE3 Book 2. Compared to FE11, it includes a significant number of new characters and updated art, both official and in-game portraits, for returning characters. Also adds a completely new subplot featuring original characters (Legion, Clarisse, etc.)

So I guess the best way to compare it would be if when IS released RD, they'd included a remake of PoR for the Wii with updated graphs and controls as a Book 1 of sorts with RD being the book 2. As for FE11 and 12, it's actually a pretty close 1:1 parallel with PoR and RD if you ignore their overall remake status. The relationships are a bit... odd... so I get the confusion.

Oh, right, banner. It's meh. I like Julian and Lena fine, but they don't look terribly interesting in Heroes and aren't exactly favorites I've been hyped for. The Krises are the avatars I'm probably most apathetic on, which is a bit sad in that it means I like them more than 2 of the 4, but I have no urge to pull for them. Eremiya was always my least favorite of the assassin group and while her art is nice, I'm not hugely digging it. Probably a pass for me, but cool to see them get in, and Kris was a weird omission.

Edited by bottlegnomes

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I do think it's nice having Res Ploy and now Atk Ploy available on units summonable at 4* in the regular pool, personally. I just wish the other skills were more interesting, we've been getting the same staff weapon/assist/special skills forever.

What bugs me about Tellius's continued absence is that, looking over the other game-focused banners so far in Book 4: FE4, FE5, FE7, and Fates all had gone longer than Tellius since their previous New Heroes banner (and TMS hadn't been in Heroes at all), while Three Houses has been way behind other games in terms of representation because of its late start, so those all make sense to go first. Awakening seemed a bit stranger, but Awakening Anna was the most-voted missing character on both CYL3 and CYL4, so I can understand prioritizing it. But FE3 going ahead of Tellius seems so random, we're now doing games that have already gotten New Heroes banners since CYL3. I guess because of the anniversary? But still, it's irritating. I hope we at least finally get that new Tellius banner in September.

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37 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

@Anacybele NMotE and SD are a bit more distinct than that. I'd actually put them in pretty similar territory to RD and PoR. It's something like this:

FE1 (DDatSoL): Totally original game
FE3 (MotE) Book 1: remake of FE1 updated for the SNES
FE3 Book 2: Direct sequel to FE1/Book 1 featuring returning characters, new characters, and a continuation of plot points from FE1.
FE11 (SD): Remake of FE1
FE12 (NMotE): Remake and expansion of FE3 Book 2. Compared to FE11, it includes a significant number of new characters and updated art, both official and in-game portraits, for returning characters. Also adds a completely new subplot featuring original characters (Legion, Clarisse, etc.)

So I guess the best way to compare it would be if when IS released RD, they'd included a remake of PoR for the Wii with updated graphs and controls as a Book 1 of sorts with RD being the book 2. As for FE11 and 12, it's actually a pretty close 1:1 parallel with PoR and RD if you ignore their overall remake status. The relationships are a bit... odd... so I get the confusion.

Oh, right, banner. It's meh. I like Julian and Lena fine, but they don't look terribly interesting in Heroes and aren't exactly favorites I've been hyped for. The Krises are the avatars I'm probably most apathetic on, which is a bit sad in that it means I like them more than 2 of the 4, but I have no urge to pull for them. Eremiya was always my least favorite of the assassin group and while her art is nice, I'm not hugely digging it. Probably a pass for me, but cool to see them get in, and Kris was a weird omission.

This is all fine and dandy, but there's still the fact that even IS considers RD more distinct from its predecessor than New Mystery since they split up the two Tellius games in the catalogue, but didn't do so for Archanea's games. And I still consider it a bit more distinct too. Because several characters go through noticeable appearance changes, as I mentioned before, there are a bunch of new characters, and as you pointed out, there isn't a remake of PoR added to it.

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I do think that the "why is this game/character getting left out" frustration is likely something IS deliberately causes, to build hype for when they do get added. They seem to have a habit of slow-rolling certain things to make them more exciting later, once there's been more of a chance for people to really get invested in their conspicuous absence.

Speaking personally, there have been a lot of characters where I've been excited for them to be added because they'd seemed weirdly left out, but wouldn't have thought much of them if they'd been added earlier. Julian, Lena, and the Krises are all in that group.

Edited by Othin

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33 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

This is all fine and dandy, but there's still the fact that even IS considers RD more distinct from its predecessor than New Mystery since they split up the two Tellius games in the catalogue, but didn't do so for Archanea's games. And I still consider it a bit more distinct too. Because several characters go through noticeable appearance changes, as I mentioned before, there are a bunch of new characters, and as you pointed out, there isn't a remake of PoR added to it.

10 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I would count New Mystery and SD together, actually. RD is more different from PoR than NM is from SD, isn't it? New Mystery is a remake of a remake with a few extra things, I think.

I'm not saying you have to consider them equally distinct. I probably do, but as you mentioned, IS doesn't for the sake of FEH. I was referring to your previous post and specifically the bolded part. I should also note that Book 1 and Book 2 are completely distinct. Each can be played without touching the other and 1 has no bearing on 2. As far as art, I suppose it could be chalked up to different artist, but I like to think there was some intentional aging with characters like Marth, if not nearly as significant as RDs changes, but it was also only a year later.

But yeah, mostly just meant FE3 is more of a sequel than a remake.

Edited by bottlegnomes

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I personally count all related games together, except for Binding Blade/Blazing Sword and Geneology/Thracia which have mostly distinct casts that make them unfeasible to lump together.

 

I lump RD with PoR, counting reps for one as reps for the other. Same for SD/NM, and BR/CQ/Rev.

 

What I truly consider asinine is the need to break Geneology, Awakening, and Fates into Gen 1 or Gen 2, as if that somehow makes them need more banners than they actually do.

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7 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

I'm not saying you have to consider them equally distinct. I probably do, but as you mentioned IS, doesn't for the sake of FEH. I was referring to your previous post and specifically the bolded part. I should also note that Book 1 and Book 2 are completely distinct. Each can be played without touching the other and 1 has no bearing on 2. As far as art, I suppose it could be chalked up to different artist, but I like to think there was some intentional aging with characters like Marth, if not nearly as significant as RDs changes, but it was also only a year later.

But yeah, mostly just meant FE3 is more of a sequel than a remake.

Okay, fair enough then.

I feel like IS is also setting themselves up to be forced into a lot of Tellius spam down the road though, which can also be tiring, even for a huge fan like me. Tellius not only still has a large portion of its cast missing period, but it also has a lot of excuses for non-seasonal alts since characters like the Greil Mercs got outfit changes and even noticeably aged in the case of characters like Mist, Sothe, Boyd, etc. It's like Three Houses with its time skip. It has a lot of excuses for alts. Some probably have a low chance of ever being in, like PoR Sothe, but still.

The way some other games' rosters are being pretty depleted, I can easily see Tellius being the last one with absentees and quite a few of them. I don't actually expect every single character in the series to be in this game before it officially ends, but a majority might be.

Edited by Anacybele

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8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Okay, fair enough then.

I feel like IS is also setting themselves up to be forced into a lot of Tellius spam down the road though, which can also be tiring, even for a huge fan like me. Tellius not only still has a large portion of its cast missing period, but it also has a lot of excuses for non-seasonal alts since characters like the Greil Mercs got outfit changes and even noticeably aged in the case of characters like Mist, Sothe, Boyd, etc. It's like Three Houses with its time skip. It has a lot of excuses for alts. Some probably have a low chance of ever being in, like PoR Sothe, but still.

The way some other games' rosters are being pretty depleted, I can easily see Tellius being the last one with absentees and quite a few of them. I don't actually expect every single character in the series to be in this game before it officially ends, but a majority might be.

I'd view a few months of Tellius spam as much needed justice.

 

Because let's face it. Even if Tellius got 2 banners back to back and Awakening goes an entire year without one, Awakening has almost its entire roster in Heroes, while Tellius has one of the lowest percentages.

 

The same is true for Thracia and Sacred Stones. Even after getting a new banner, Thracia and Sacred Stones need another one more than Awakening/Fates do. 

 

It's not about length of time, but rather frequency, and the frequency of Awakening/Fates banners makes them feel underwhelming (and I say that as someone who likes Awakening). All length of time between banners does is drive the point home when a game doesn't have enough characters/is missing a lot of characters you want.

Edited by Fabulously Olivier

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1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I'd view a few months of Tellius spam as much needed justice.

 

Because let's face it. Even if Tellius got 2 banners back to back and Awakening goes an entire year without one, Awakening has almost its entire roster in Heroes, while Tellius has one of the lowest percentages.

 

The same is true for Thracia and Sacred Stones. Even after getting a new banner, Thracia and Sacred Stones need another one more than Awakening/Fates do. 

 

It's not about length of time, but rather frequency, and the frequency of Awakening/Fates banners makes them feel underwhelming (and I say that as someone who likes Awakening). All length of time between banners is drive the point home when a game doesn't have enough characters/is missing a lot of characters you want.

Yeah, that's true too. But another problem is my bank account. lol I don't want to be bombarded with a ton of stuff I want all at once. XD

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1 hour ago, Sasori said:

I could have worded it better, but my main complaint is not that the units are bad, but that they are very boring.

I do not see anything wrong with boring. Personally, I rather have boring but effective stuff over different but crap stuff.

1 hour ago, Sasori said:

They bring ploys, but those aren’t very new and exiting either.

I do not like Ploys either and I think they are kind of crap, but the primary advantage they have over Sabotage is that the positioning requirement is much more under the player's control. Sabotage's positioning requirement is pretty lenient and it can be influenced by the player, but it is not completely under player control since you still reliant on the AI to make stupid positioning mistakes, and Sabotage has issues when the enemies are split up or when it is down to the last enemy.

Even if they are not new nor exciting, they still bring more formerly premium debuffing options to a much more friendly price.

1 hour ago, Sasori said:

Fortress res is also old and not something you easily slap on someone.

Fortress Res is old but that does not mean it is not good. For Sabotagers, Res is the only stat that matters, and having Fortress Res in the cheaper summoning pool is a pretty big deal. The primary difference between it and Fort. Def/Res is literally 1 point in Res, and Def difference is irrelevant. Fortress Res is the second best A skill for an entire class of support units for a really cheap price.

1 hour ago, Sasori said:

There are other staves to create or to reuse. Such as Maribelle’s. These staves and assists are already available everywhere.

Having Trilemma would be nice, but it is not that great in my opinion, so I honestly do not care whether it gets into the lower summoning pools. Even if it gets demoted there, people will still complain about units getting screwed without considering that what does not work for them does not necessarily mean it does not work for others. Just because I do not think Trilemma is great does not mean others do not think it is great too. Trilemma does not really have a place in the meta right now, and I cannot really think of a niche for it either, but it is something and I am sure someone will figure out a niche for it.

Hell, even Defiants have a tiny niche in the present day since you can put two on Kaden and have him give someone two stats +7, although it is not always easy to pull off the HP requirement. With a Rouse and two Defiants, that is a little over all stats +6.

1 hour ago, Sasori said:

Its all very meh when compared to someone like Mustafa. If I don’t want to use him, then he has the ever useful bonfire, a new axe and def tactics. I think he and other non healers just add much more when they demote.

Just because you think it is meh does not mean it is actually meh. I could literally use the same words you do to describe units too, and I would sound super biased and have a huge double standard.

Even if I do not use Forrest himself, he still has the ever useful Panic, a critical A skill for debuffers, and a budget debuffing skill. Emmeryn has Res Opening for helping specialized tanks counter Blazing mages and keeping the buffer in the back, and she got freaking Wings of Mercy. Lena got the ever useful Gravity and another budget debuffing skill.

Bonfire is literally everywhere and most players have huge piles of Bonfire fodder already, so Mustafa having Bonfire brings nothing to the table. Def Tactic is also pretty old and kind of crap since it has restrictive team composition requirements. All Mustafa brings is a new axe, but that is still a budget non-optimal option as you want to use Guard Axe for its Guard effect, as it is much easier to offload stats than to offload skills to buffers. 

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Pretty surprised it wasn't a Tellius Banner since Archanea hasn't gone on that long since its last one, that said this banner makes sense. Love them or hate them, both Kris have been at or near the top of their respective region, Julian and Lena have been odd omissions in the game for way too long, and Eremiya is one of the last major villains (the other being Medeus, who's probably getting a Mythic) not in the game. it's a good set for Archanea considering where its current roster is at this point in time.

That said, this banner is a skip for me since I'm not a fan of Kris and Lena is the obvious demote so she's not high in priority either, so it's just Julian holding down the fort and he's not enough to get me invested in the banner.

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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Okay, fair enough then.

I feel like IS is also setting themselves up to be forced into a lot of Tellius spam down the road though, which can also be tiring, even for a huge fan like me. Tellius not only still has a large portion of its cast missing period, but it also has a lot of excuses for non-seasonal alts since characters like the Greil Mercs got outfit changes and even noticeably aged in the case of characters like Mist, Sothe, Boyd, etc. It's like Three Houses with its time skip. It has a lot of excuses for alts. Some probably have a low chance of ever being in, like PoR Sothe, but still.

The way some other games' rosters are being pretty depleted, I can easily see Tellius being the last one with absentees and quite a few of them. I don't actually expect every single character in the series to be in this game before it officially ends, but a majority might be.

The game that's likely to be slowest to fill out its full roster is FE5, by far. In the long run, I think Tellius is likely to also surpass Archanea and FE6. Those two have a head start and are currently better represented, but like FE5, they have some really forgettable units, more so than anything in Tellius.

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