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How does this look for a Blue Lions NG+ Hard plan?


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Byleth - Myrmidon > Mercenary > Swordmaster

I went Enlightened One my first time around and I wasn't overall impressed with Byleth's spell list. She got two good healing spells and made Blutgang pretty useful, but I always found that she did her best with just a Silver Sword. So I'm going the pure sword route this time, staying in Swordmaster for Swordfaire and Sword Crit. I'm also giving her a Crest of Charon and Catherine's Thunderbrand.

Dimitri - Soldier > ???? > High Lord > Great Lord

I like having my lords end up in their unique classes. But what's a good path to make the most out of Great Lord Dimitri? I'm guessing Soldier since that's the go-to beginner class for lance. But I'm not sure where to go from there until he unlocks High Lord.

Ingrid - Soldier > Pegasus Knight > Falcon Knight

I'm not gonna screw with success here. Took this path with Ingrid on Black Eagles and she was just too damn good for me to make her anything else here. Only thing I'm doing differently this time is handing her a Crest of Gautier and the Lance of Ruin since Sylvain's going the magic route and won't need it.

Ashe - Myrmidon > Thief > Assassin

I'm not sure if I should make Ashe my Assassin or have him go Bow Knight and make Shamir my Assassin instead.

Marianne - Monk > Priest > Bishop > Holy Knight

I'm going for more of a mixed Marianne build than the last time where she was a healer and nothing else. She'll have her Faith magic for healing, a Levin Sword for fighting and Canto for not dying.

Hilda - Soldier > Pegasus Knight > Falcon Knight

Everyone says she makes a great flier, and I really really don't wanna make her a Wyvern Lord. Mainly just for Fashion Emblem (if that's a thing lol) reasons. So Falcon Knight seemed like the next best thing. I'll just give my Wyvern Lord Seteth her crest and relic.

Sylvain - Monk > Mage > Warlock > Dark Knight

Might as well make use of that budding talent of his since his Reason spell list seems pretty nice. Just gotta give him Caduceus Staff and he's good to go.

Lysithea - Monk > Mage > Gremory

Pretty self-explanatory. Should I bridge the gap between Mage and Gremory with anything just for stat boosts? I know some people get the Fortress Knight cert just to fix her tissue paper defense, but that seems like an awfully huge investment in otherwise useless skills for her, even on NG+. Do you think I should go for it?

Catherine - Swordmaster

My goal here is basically a replacement Felix. I want her to crit, I want her to double and I want her to dodge. Makes the most sense to keep her in Swordmaster for this since she has it right from the get-go and it's the best pure sword class from what I've seen. Then if I just hand her a Killing Edge, feed her any speed items I get and throw on a Crit Ring or Evasion Ring she should be set.

Shamir - Sniper > Bow Knight

Basically the same concern I had with Ashe.

Seteth - Wyvern Rider > Wyvern Lord

He's a natural Wyvern Lord. Wyvern Lords are OP. Seems like a good plan to me haha

Flayn - Dancer

Flayn's pretty much considered the best Dancer in the game, and it looks like she's got some pretty useful support spells to go with it. So I figure why not since it's always a good idea to have a Dancer and she seems like the perfect choice.

A couple of other questions. Who will be my two most movement-challenged units? I just wanna know who to give the March Ring and Sacred Galewind Shoes to. Also, NG+ means I can freely switch between everyone's timeskip and pre-timeskip looks, even in part 1, yes?

 

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Aha so this is my topic! First thing's first: you'll want to use all your in house units for at least chapter 13. Trust me. If you don't your life will become difficult. Felix is a powerhouse in any martial class, make use of him, and Mercedes is the best healer in the game. She doesn't get warp but you're recruiting Lysithea so she doesn't need it.

Byleth is good in just about anything except pure magic where they're just serviceable.

Dimitri is a freaking monster. Get him death blow if you can but I usually go soldier -> paladin or lord and brigand for death blow. Make sure to train his authority for ridiculous strats.

Ingrid is prone to strength issues. Some time in brigand would help or you could take her wyvern lord to patch that up.

That's an okay progression for Ashe, but you might wanna get him Hit+20 just to be safe.

Marianne and Hilda are fine if you're convinced to use them here instead of on GD where they're legitimately better. Of course I'm the type that prefers to use in house units mostly and only recruit 2 per house.

Sylvain looks fine but you might need to give him magic boosters.

Make sure to bridge the gap with Lysithea with warlock. She has Mastermind so she can master more things than most units.

The rest look fine. Once you get everyone on mounts you'll only have to worry about movement on your footlocked units, especially your mages. You may wanna give those movement increasers to Dimitri or Byleth since they won't be mounted. Or Lysithea for even more range.

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While nothing wrong with Ashe as an Assassin because of his lore of him once being a thief, he already has the locktouch ability permanently, which makes it redundant imo. Still him gaining Death Blow and Hit +20 since he has a boon in bows and axes makes it easier for him to inflict big damage. I tend to do wither Sniper or Wyvern Lord with him pending on what role I need him to play.

Ingrid may need strength +2 and or Death Blow (definitely Death Blow) to help her strength issues out. You could in theory go Fighter > Brigand > Pegasus Knight > Wyvern Rider > Falcon Knight. You'll get a handful of useful abilities to give to her. 

Dimitri going down any physical route will make him your MVP for sure. His bane in axes may getting axes to D+ or C rank a chore since it will take longer. But Death Blow certainly helps. Though his high strength growth could make it a non issue for him however so Death Blow might not be needed. You can either give him higher speed growths by putting him in Myrmidon > Thief > Swordmaster then High Lord > Great Lord. Or take him down the cavalier route and then master Paladin for Aegis. You could even keep him in Paladin since he'll keep lancefaire and have his stats be well balanced aside from a speed penalty.

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3 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

Marianne - Monk > Priest > Bishop > Holy Knight

I'm going for more of a mixed Marianne build than the last time where she was a healer and nothing else. She'll have her Faith magic for healing, a Levin Sword for fighting and Canto for not dying.

I can't recommend this in good faith (heh). Holy Knight is pretty lousy as far as Master classes go; Dark Knight does what it can but better, and it's not that great either. All told, I'd consider Gremory much better than this. Heck, staying in Bishop is better.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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2 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

Lysithea - Monk > Mage > Gremory

Pretty self-explanatory. Should I bridge the gap between Mage and Gremory with anything just for stat boosts? I know some people get the Fortress Knight cert just to fix her tissue paper defense, but that seems like an awfully huge investment in otherwise useless skills for her, even on NG+. Do you think I should go for it?

 

If you have the dlc, then I'd rid of Gremory and do Monk > Mage > Valkyrie as it will put them on a mount and give boosts to their dark magic. Otherwise I'd bridge the gap with Warlock and not train her to be a Fortress Knight for defence. Instead (if you want to and don't somehow kill everything with her before they get the chance to get to her) train for mercenary and get vantage if you plan on her to be more up-close as she will demolish anything in her path. She'd need to take damage though but in hard mode it's not that hard (ironic). If she does die in one hit then you can give her a defence person and she'll live through an attack. Also don't forget to get Lorenz for his relic to put on Lysithea for massive range and damage (also the chance to take half damage is a nice bonus).

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3 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

Lysithea - Monk > Mage > Gremory

Pretty self-explanatory. Should I bridge the gap between Mage and Gremory with anything just for stat boosts? I know some people get the Fortress Knight cert just to fix her tissue paper defense, but that seems like an awfully huge investment in otherwise useless skills for her, even on NG+. Do you think I should go for it?

If it seems like an awfully huge investment, that's because it is. Especially since it involves investing in two weaknesses. And I don't think it's worth it.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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2 hours ago, Barren said:

Ingrid may need strength +2 and or Death Blow (definitely Death Blow) to help her strength issues out. You could in theory go Fighter > Brigand > Pegasus Knight > Wyvern Rider > Falcon Knight. You'll get a handful of useful abilities to give to her. 

Dimitri going down any physical route will make him your MVP for sure. His bane in axes may getting axes to D+ or C rank a chore since it will take longer. But Death Blow certainly helps. Though his high strength growth could make it a non issue for him however so Death Blow might not be needed. You can either give him higher speed growths by putting him in Myrmidon > Thief > Swordmaster then High Lord > Great Lord. Or take him down the cavalier route and then master Paladin for Aegis. You could even keep him in Paladin since he'll keep lancefaire and have his stats be well balanced aside from a speed penalty.

Thanks for the advice on Ingrid. That definitely looks like a strong route for her. Would you recommend mastering all those classes for her? Or just the ones that give useful skills like Brigand? And I should take this path with Hilda too, yes?

That first route for Dimitri looks very tempting. I do enjoy my speedy powerhouses who can just nope everything. I'd rather not train him in riding for the Cavalier route since he's gonna be unmounted in the end. Can he stick with lance all the way through? Or should he switch to swords temporarily while he's in the sword-based classes? Also how important is Death Blow for him? Is it a must-have or just something that's good to get if it's not too much trouble?

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I can't recommend this in good faith (heh). Holy Knight is pretty lousy as far as Master classes go; Dark Knight does what it can but better, and it's not that great either. All told, I'd consider Gremory much better than this. Heck, staying in Bishop is better.

Damn... I was hoping for a good "combat healer" type build for Marianne so she can fight alongside Hilda to build up support (for shipping reasons). I can definitely go Gremory though and just give her a Levin Sword.

1 hour ago, Gabeatron9002 said:

If you have the dlc, then I'd rid of Gremory and do Monk > Mage > Valkyrie as it will put them on a mount and give boosts to their dark magic. Otherwise I'd bridge the gap with Warlock and not train her to be a Fortress Knight for defence. Instead (if you want to and don't somehow kill everything with her before they get the chance to get to her) train for mercenary and get vantage if you plan on her to be more up-close as she will demolish anything in her path. She'd need to take damage though but in hard mode it's not that hard (ironic). If she does die in one hit then you can give her a defence person and she'll live through an attack. Also don't forget to get Lorenz for his relic to put on Lysithea for massive range and damage (also the chance to take half damage is a nice bonus).

I'll bridge the gap with Valkyrie since Warlock feels pretty useless on her (no black magic and all), but I still want Gremory for double warp. Maybe I'll grab Vantage for her though just so she doesn't die to a cheap shot.

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

If it seems like an awfully huge investment, that's because it is. Especially since it involves investing in two weaknesses. And I don't think it's worth it.

Yeah I've seen people do it but it always felt like "You trained her in all that crap just for some defense?!" to me haha

2 hours ago, Barren said:

While nothing wrong with Ashe as an Assassin because of his lore of him once being a thief, he already has the locktouch ability permanently, which makes it redundant imo. Still him gaining Death Blow and Hit +20 since he has a boon in bows and axes makes it easier for him to inflict big damage. I tend to do wither Sniper or Wyvern Lord with him pending on what role I need him to play.

Oh yeah true! I forgot about his Locktouch ability. I'll probably take him down the Bow Knight route and make Shamir my Assassin then.

3 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

You may wanna give those movement increasers to Dimitri or Byleth since they won't be mounted. Or Lysithea for even more range.

Ah, thanks! I'll give the ring to Dimitri and the boots to Lys so she can still equip Thyrsus.

3 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Felix

Nope.

3 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Sylvain looks fine but you might need to give him magic boosters.

Like Spirit Dust/Magic Herbs? I'll definitely keep this in mind.

Thanks everyone for your feedback!

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1 minute ago, RainbowMoon said:

Nope.

Like Spirit Dust/Magic Herbs? I'll definitely keep this in mind.

Thanks everyone for your feedback!

You need more of a reason than just "nope", not to mention how dismissive that was. The other 3 routes are not like Crimson Flower, they have Chapter 13 and you are locked to your in house units, you cannot use any of the recruits you plan on using. None of them. You get Byleth, Dimitri, Felix, Annette, Sylvain, Mercedes, Ingrid, Ashe, and one other and that is it. If you don't raise your in house units that map could very well cause a hard block. Thankfully you're not playing on Maddening but you are still playing on Hard and you have not mentioned Mercedes or Annette alongside Felix and that will put you either down 3 units or with 3 super weak units that will be active hindrances. You need to at least train your in house units enough to cover your hind end for that chapter which means getting them to at least advanced classes in general.

And yes, like spirit dust or magic herbs. I'd go more for the latter since you can grow those in the greenhouse so you're likely to have more of them. Also keep training Sylvain's lance rank because once you get him in dark knight he'll still probably be doing more damage (and be more accurate) with Swift Strikes than his magic xD

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10 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

You need more of a reason than just "nope", not to mention how dismissive that was. The other 3 routes are not like Crimson Flower, they have Chapter 13 and you are locked to your in house units, you cannot use any of the recruits you plan on using. None of them. You get Byleth, Dimitri, Felix, Annette, Sylvain, Mercedes, Ingrid, Ashe, and one other and that is it. If you don't raise your in house units that map could very well cause a hard block. Thankfully you're not playing on Maddening but you are still playing on Hard and you have not mentioned Mercedes or Annette alongside Felix and that will put you either down 3 units or with 3 super weak units that will be active hindrances. You need to at least train your in house units enough to cover your hind end for that chapter which means getting them to at least advanced classes in general.

To be completely fair, in Felix's case SPOILERS FOR POST TIMESKIP

Spoiler

He joins on the other side of the map, which I think (from memory) can kind of just chill considering there aren't too many enemies that way. Plus Ingrid and Sylvain can baby him if they get into any combat- especially on Hard

For what it's worth, @RainbowMoon, I'm not sure if you used Felix before and hated him or have only seen him around the monastery and don't like the look of him, but if it's the latter I advise you to at least give him a chance- he's a much better character than first impressions would make him seem, especially on BL. Plus he's a monster unit wise, as Silver-Haired Maiden also said.

If you decide to use Mercedes or Annette, the former can go Monk- Priest- Bishop- Gremory (or stay in Bishop), and the latter can go Monk- Mage- Warlock- Gremory or Monk- Mage (master this for fiendish blow)- Wyvern Rider- Wyvern Lord (this is to take advantage of the magic combat art she gets with axes fairly early on). The two of them can take Flayn and Seteth's slots until they join.

Anyway, good luck with the run!

EDIT: Oh, and yes, you can freely switch between pre and post timeskip attire for all your units

 

Edited by Anathaco
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If you have access to DLC, Valkyrie is definitely a good advanced class for Lysithea thanks to Canto and Dark Magic range +1, and potentially Movement +1 if you manage to reach Riding A+. Otherwise, I'd suggest that Bishop is also worth considering when progressing from Mage to Gremory, as it provides double Warp and like previous commenters noted, Warlock doesn't bring much noticeable utility to Lysithea. 

For Marianne, I'd argue that it's better to go for Mage instead of Priest for Intermediate Class in order to master Fiendish Blow. Miracle is not a skill worth mastering IMHO. If you want her to keep up with Falcon Hilda for shipping reason, the DLC exclusive class Dark Flier as a flying mage is probably worth considering. She can also potentially make use of Transmute thanks to her good Res growth. Or she can go DLC Valkyrie as well, and mastering Uncanny Blow can improve her spells' accuracy. Otherwise, staying in Bishop or Gremory is probably easier to manage for healing purpose, as your other Physic user Sylvain might not have the same range as Marianne. When I don't use Marianne as the dedicated healer unit, I also quite like some of the offensive builds for her, even though they certainly have their own pros & cons, such as Assassin (Levin Sword/Soulblade + Stealth + good Mvt for infantry class but no spell), Mortal Savant (Levin Sword/Soulblade + spell access but more vulnerable on enemy phase) or Falcon Knight (Frozen Lance + flying canto but no spell and no magic lance in BL route).

Edited by DriftingWaterBottle
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Aww. Last time in my Silver Snow , my character (You choose) in the final class.

 

Ingrid --> Pegasus Knight or Cavalier

Ashe --> Sniper

Marianne --> Bishop

Hilda --> Warrior

Sylvain --> Paladin

Lysithea --> Warlock

If I want master class I agree with Ingrid as Falcon Knight , Hilda for Wyvern Lord and Lysithea for Gremory.

 

But let me tell you. Felix and Annette is the key character on Azure moon because the sword (Rodrigue give by talk him) for Felix and Annette relic.

Edited by drattakbowser
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8 hours ago, Anathaco said:

To be completely fair, in Felix's case SPOILERS FOR POST TIMESKIP

  Hide contents

He joins on the other side of the map, which I think (from memory) can kind of just chill considering there aren't too many enemies that way. Plus Ingrid and Sylvain can baby him if they get into any combat- especially on Hard

For what it's worth, @RainbowMoon, I'm not sure if you used Felix before and hated him or have only seen him around the monastery and don't like the look of him, but if it's the latter I advise you to at least give him a chance- he's a much better character than first impressions would make him seem, especially on BL. Plus he's a monster unit wise, as Silver-Haired Maiden also said.

If you decide to use Mercedes or Annette, the former can go Monk- Priest- Bishop- Gremory (or stay in Bishop), and the latter can go Monk- Mage- Warlock- Gremory or Monk- Mage (master this for fiendish blow)- Wyvern Rider- Wyvern Lord (this is to take advantage of the magic combat art she gets with axes fairly early on). The two of them can take Flayn and Seteth's slots until they join.

Anyway, good luck with the run!

EDIT: Oh, and yes, you can freely switch between pre and post timeskip attire for all your units

 

It's a bit of both with Felix, actually. On my CF run I recruited him early on since I heard he was an excellent unit. I don't really care for "tsundere" type characters, so I was a bit put off by his abrasiveness (I went the B-support route with all my recruits) but I figured he'd warm up sooner or later so I let him join and brought him into every battle. After not too long, he'd definitely become the beast on the battlefield that everyone said he was. But the problem was that he just killed too many enemies. Bernadetta and Lysithea would just end up standing there behind him on every auxiliary battle, not getting a single EXP because all the enemies were too busy committing suicide by Felix. I started to pull Felix back to keep him away from enemies just so the others had a chance to get some kills. But as I'm already wondering if Felix is more of a burden than a help, I start to get more of his supports. So I'm thinking this is where that prickly shell of his will start to melt away. And while his suppprts with Lysithea were genuinely hilarious, just because she's the only one who doesn't back down from him, I couldn't help but feel his character was going nowhere. Even in his B and A-supports, he always snaps right back into his abrasive funk. I felt like Bernadetta put it best in their A-support when she said "Aww... there's that shell again." The shell never goes away, even in the monestary. Even when someone gets him to open up a bit, he always crawls right back in. His C and B-supports with Dorothea I think got me the most because they show just how bitter and angry he is inside that he can be so openly hostile to someone as sweet and good-natured as Dorothea. She wasn't even poking fun at him like Lysithea or freaking out like Bernadetta, she was just being friendly and outgoing like always. I get what the Tragedy of Duscur, as well as his brother's death, did to him emotionally. I get that both those things left wounds deeper than what a nice chat with Dorothea can heal. And I get that the way he acts towards everybody (including his father) is just his way of hiding the constant pain he feels inside. I mean for as much as Felix hates him, he's actually very similar to Dimitri in what he experienced, just not in how he chooses to process his feelings. So I get it, I sympathize with it, but I just can't get behind how he chooses to deal with it. But for the sake of the topic I'll stop here since I've already said a lot haha

18 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

You need more of a reason than just "nope", not to mention how dismissive that was. The other 3 routes are not like Crimson Flower, they have Chapter 13 and you are locked to your in house units, you cannot use any of the recruits you plan on using. None of them. You get Byleth, Dimitri, Felix, Annette, Sylvain, Mercedes, Ingrid, Ashe, and one other and that is it. If you don't raise your in house units that map could very well cause a hard block. Thankfully you're not playing on Maddening but you are still playing on Hard and you have not mentioned Mercedes or Annette alongside Felix and that will put you either down 3 units or with 3 super weak units that will be active hindrances. You need to at least train your in house units enough to cover your hind end for that chapter which means getting them to at least advanced classes in general.

And yes, like spirit dust or magic herbs. I'd go more for the latter since you can grow those in the greenhouse so you're likely to have more of them. Also keep training Sylvain's lance rank because once you get him in dark knight he'll still probably be doing more damage (and be more accurate) with Swift Strikes than his magic xD

Sorry for my rudeness before, that was crappy of me. You're absolutely right, I should've given a good reason in my OP. Thanks for the head's up about chapter 13, that does sound hard if you've been using mostly out of house characters up to that point. I was already planning on training Mercedes as a healer adjutant for Dimitri, and I'll definitely make sure Annette's in an advanced class by then too. I just don't wanna use Felix again, if that's alright.

Also thanks for the advice about Sylvain. I'll grow up some magic herbs for him, but I'm not so sure about training him in lance with no magic lance available.

8 hours ago, Anathaco said:

EDIT: Oh, and yes, you can freely switch between pre and post timeskip attire for all your units

Perfect! Dimitri's timeskip hair is everything!

7 hours ago, DriftingWaterBottle said:

If you have access to DLC, Valkyrie is definitely a good advanced class for Lysithea thanks to Canto and Dark Magic range +1, and potentially Movement +1 if you manage to reach Riding A+. Otherwise, I'd suggest that Bishop is also worth considering when progressing from Mage to Gremory, as it provides double Warp and like previous commenters noted, Warlock doesn't bring much noticeable utility to Lysithea. 

For Marianne, I'd argue that it's better to go for Mage instead of Priest for Intermediate Class in order to master Fiendish Blow. Miracle is not a skill worth mastering IMHO. If you want her to keep up with Falcon Hilda for shipping reason, the DLC exclusive class Dark Flier as a flying mage is probably worth considering. She can also potentially make use of Transmute thanks to her good Res growth. Or she can go DLC Valkyrie as well, and mastering Uncanny Blow can improve her spells' accuracy. Otherwise, staying in Bishop or Gremory is probably easier to manage for healing purpose, as your other Physic user Sylvain might not have the same range as Marianne. When I don't use Marianne as the dedicated healer unit, I also quite like some of the offensive builds for her, even though they certainly have their own pros & cons, such as Assassin (Levin Sword/Soulblade + Stealth + good Mvt for infantry class but no spell), Mortal Savant (Levin Sword/Soulblade + spell access but more vulnerable on enemy phase) or Falcon Knight (Frozen Lance + flying canto but no spell and no magic lance in BL route).

Oh, I didn't even think of a Dark Flier Marianne! That sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. Faith, Reason, a Levin Sword and a way to get outta dodge easily.

And yeah since I'm set on Gremory for Lys I'll go for Bishop instead of training her in riding.

Edited by RainbowMoon
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10 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

snip

That’s fair. He has some supports in BL that are really sweet (Annette, Ashe, Sylvain) but generally he stays abrasive through the whole support. I like that, personally, but it’s definitely a matter of opinion.

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On 7/22/2020 at 5:39 PM, RainbowMoon said:

Thanks for the advice on Ingrid. That definitely looks like a strong route for her. Would you recommend mastering all those classes for her? Or just the ones that give useful skills like Brigand? And I should take this path with Hilda too, yes?

That first route for Dimitri looks very tempting. I do enjoy my speedy powerhouses who can just nope everything. I'd rather not train him in riding for the Cavalier route since he's gonna be unmounted in the end. Can he stick with lance all the way through? Or should he switch to swords temporarily while he's in the sword-based classes? Also how important is Death Blow for him? Is it a must-have or just something that's good to get if it's not too much trouble?

Hilda can go down a similar class like Ingrid. However, Ingrid has a better dex stat growth than Hilda though Hilda has better strength. So maybe give her either an accuracy ring or have her spend time in the archer class to have her learn hit +20. Hilda can also fill that Falcon Knight/Wyvern Lord role really well like Ingrid can since they are both fast. Ingrid being faster however can help double hit enemies or at least prevent herself from being double attacked because of her innately higher speed stat so that could be the difference there.

Having weight -3 can also help with AS, especially for Hilda since Heavy Armor is her budding talent. So combining that with Darting Blow works well. Getting both Death Blow and Darting Blow for both Hilda and Ingrid will no doubt come in handy for them. Death Blow for Ingrid especially since she struggles with a strength growth of 35% while hilda's 45% strength growth is better in comparison.

Death Blow in general pending on your build is one of the more useful abilities to learn for any would be front/mid line attacker. So going out of your way to learn Death Blow especially if you're planning on OHKOing enemies. Dimitri can still have lances on the side while in his sword class. Him having Windsweep as an option to prevent any enemy counter attack is always useful swordfaire or no. As far as him learning Death Blow, it really depends on your route because you don't want your development to be stretched out too thin unless you're willing to grind all the weapon experience. There are methods however to do this within a few minutes with the broken/rusted weapons if you so chose.

I tend to have him learn arguably one of the more broken combos he has access too: Battalion Vantage + Battalion Wrath since you can set him up to be a crit hit machine and wipe out everything he encounters. You can even give him the Chalice of Beginnings acessory and he'll have counter attack equipped at all times. Just watch out for other gambit users.

Edited by Barren
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Here's my new plan with some of the changes you all suggested. How does it look? Is there anything else you'd recommend?

Byleth - Brigand (Master) > Myrmidon > Mercenary (Master) > Swordmaster

Dimitri - Brigand (Master) > Soldier > Myrmidon > Mercenary (Master) > Swordmaster > High Lord > Great Lord

This seems like a very long road, especially since Dimitri misses out on a huge chunk of instruction time after the timeskip. Should I maybe skip Soldier and go straight to Myrmidon to speed (heh) things along? I also decided to go Mercenary instead of Thief to pick up Vantage since I don't expect Dimitri to be stealing anything other than kills.

Ingrid - Brigand (Master) > Soldier > Pegasus Knight (Master) > Wyvern Rider (Master) > Falcon Knight

Ashe - Brigand (Master) > Fighter > Archer (Master) > Sniper > Bow Knight

Marianne - Monk > Mage (Master) > Bishop > Dark Flier

Do I still need Bishop or can she go straight to Dark Flier from Mage?

Hilda - Brigand (Master) > Soldier > Pegasus Knight (Master) > Wyvern Rider (Master) > Falcon Knight

Sylvain - Monk > Mage (Master) > Warlock > Dark Knight

Lysithea - Monk > Mage (Master) > Bishop > Gremory

Catherine - Brigand (Master) > Swordmaster

Shamir - Brigand (Master) > Archer (Master) > Assassin

Seteth - Brigand (Master) > Wyvern Rider (Master) > Wyvern Lord

Flayn - Dancer

Flayn for the most part won't be doing much besides dancing and healing so I'm not taking her through Mage.

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1 hour ago, RainbowMoon said:

Here's my new plan with some of the changes you all suggested. How does it look? Is there anything else you'd recommend?

Byleth - Brigand (Master) > Myrmidon > Mercenary (Master) > Swordmaster

Dimitri - Brigand (Master) > Soldier > Myrmidon > Mercenary (Master) > Swordmaster > High Lord > Great Lord

This seems like a very long road, especially since Dimitri misses out on a huge chunk of instruction time after the timeskip. Should I maybe skip Soldier and go straight to Myrmidon to speed (heh) things along? I also decided to go Mercenary instead of Thief to pick up Vantage since I don't expect Dimitri to be stealing anything other than kills.

Ingrid - Brigand (Master) > Soldier > Pegasus Knight (Master) > Wyvern Rider (Master) > Falcon Knight

Ashe - Brigand (Master) > Fighter > Archer (Master) > Sniper > Bow Knight

Marianne - Monk > Mage (Master) > Bishop > Dark Flier

Do I still need Bishop or can she go straight to Dark Flier from Mage?

Hilda - Brigand (Master) > Soldier > Pegasus Knight (Master) > Wyvern Rider (Master) > Falcon Knight

Sylvain - Monk > Mage (Master) > Warlock > Dark Knight

Lysithea - Monk > Mage (Master) > Bishop > Gremory

Catherine - Brigand (Master) > Swordmaster

Shamir - Brigand (Master) > Archer (Master) > Assassin

Seteth - Brigand (Master) > Wyvern Rider (Master) > Wyvern Lord

Flayn - Dancer

Flayn for the most part won't be doing much besides dancing and healing so I'm not taking her through Mage.

Uhh, Brigand is an intermediate class. Also, I don't think it's worth going out of your way to have Dimitri get Death Blow (and your planned class path for him is too long in the first place).

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1 hour ago, RainbowMoon said:

Here's my new plan with some of the changes you all suggested. How does it look? Is there anything else you'd recommend?

Byleth - Brigand (Master) > Myrmidon > Mercenary (Master) > Swordmaster

Dimitri - Brigand (Master) > Soldier > Myrmidon > Mercenary (Master) > Swordmaster > High Lord > Great Lord

This seems like a very long road, especially since Dimitri misses out on a huge chunk of instruction time after the timeskip. Should I maybe skip Soldier and go straight to Myrmidon to speed (heh) things along? I also decided to go Mercenary instead of Thief to pick up Vantage since I don't expect Dimitri to be stealing anything other than kills.

Ingrid - Brigand (Master) > Soldier > Pegasus Knight (Master) > Wyvern Rider (Master) > Falcon Knight

Ashe - Brigand (Master) > Fighter > Archer (Master) > Sniper > Bow Knight

Marianne - Monk > Mage (Master) > Bishop > Dark Flier

Do I still need Bishop or can she go straight to Dark Flier from Mage?

Hilda - Brigand (Master) > Soldier > Pegasus Knight (Master) > Wyvern Rider (Master) > Falcon Knight

Sylvain - Monk > Mage (Master) > Warlock > Dark Knight

Lysithea - Monk > Mage (Master) > Bishop > Gremory

Catherine - Brigand (Master) > Swordmaster

Shamir - Brigand (Master) > Archer (Master) > Assassin

Seteth - Brigand (Master) > Wyvern Rider (Master) > Wyvern Lord

Flayn - Dancer

Flayn for the most part won't be doing much besides dancing and healing so I'm not taking her through Mage.

For Dimitri, you're really better off mastering one beginner class since you'll usually want to jump to an intermediate class afterwards. Speed +2 seems more useful than Defense +2 imo. Mastering Mercenary for Vantage is fine since it is a better skill in comparison to Thief. The difference in growths though is that Mercenary gets a +5% buff to his strength and speed stats. Thief meanwhile gets a +10% buff to dex and speed. Dimitri has a solid dex stat growth of 50% innately so you can probably afford for him to go Mercenary. Plus like @Shadow Mirsaid, based off your own class path going for Brigand (at least for Dimitri) may throw you off track. Plus his really high strength growth of 60% should carry him throughout the game.

For Marianne, you don't necessary need her to go Bishop before Dark Flier. Actually, if you have her go mage, you can also have her go warlock and master that class to learn bowbreaker. Dark Fliers are weak to arrows so bowbreaker would add that extra layer of protection for her since she'll be constantly using black magic anyways.

Flayn being a dancer and nothing else can be fine. Sword Avoid + Sword Prowess along with Axebreaker and Special Dance should be enough to help her out a bit.

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1 hour ago, RainbowMoon said:

Dimitri - Brigand (Master) > Soldier > Myrmidon > Mercenary (Master) > Swordmaster > High Lord > Great Lord

I have a suggestion for Dimitri that's much simpler and makes good use of his unique abilities. He's the only character in the game who gets battalion vantage as well as battalion wrath. If you set him up with a 1/3 endurance battalion he will be an enemy phase monster. I highly recommend using this setup whenever possible. Giving him an accuracy ring can help make his counter attacks more reliable but isn't necessary. Mastering Brigand won't help if you're relying on battalion vantage/wrath combo since Death Blow is a player phase ability. His weakness in axes just makes getting him there such a waste imo, and he has the highest str growth in the game, he'll be fine without Death Blow.

As for how to build him, I think there are multiple routes you can take. I liked getting his sword to A since he also learns Windsweep who only Byleth can also learn from non-dlc characters. It's great against bosses or tough enemies who can't be OHKO'd. I'd still be training him in lances as well though, they deal more damage, and combining a crit weapon like Killer Lance+ or Killer Sword+ or Cursed Ashiya Sword+ with Battalion Wrath/Vantage gets you to very high crit values. When you run into pesky long range mages towards the endgame, use Retribution gambit on him with Rally Res/Spd, Pure water, Evade Ring and just have him stand somewhere to bait them all during enemy phase. Here's a link to a post showing this tactic.

so: Soldier* / Myrmidon* > Thief > Swordmaster / Assassin > High Lord* > Great Lord*.

Going up the Thief and SM classes will boost his speed, with which an evade ring makes him quite dodgy. Not quite an evade tank who will dodge everything, but pretty good, especially under cover of trees. Ch 13 will be much easier if he can evade. Thief also helps his already high dex growths for more crits. Assassin is better to level as than SM simply because it also boosts dex, not just speed but requires bow training to certify. This is more or less the build I used for my maddening run though I also had him certified in Cavalier for an early canto as needed.

Alternatively, you could go: Soldier* > Cavalier > Paladin* > High Lord > Great Lord. Advantage here being he gets canto which is great and overall better stats but lower speed. Aegis from Paladin is a very nice ability and is triggered by Dex% which goes well with his high Dex growth. You get Dex+4 from riding too. In the end, I don't recommend a complicated route for Dimitri because you won't be able to train him for a good chunk of Part 2.

45 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Sylvain - Monk > Mage (Master) > Warlock > Dark Knight

The simplest and arguably strongest path for Sylvain is simply Soldier > Cavalier / Brigand* > Paladin* and stick to paladin. He learns Swift Strikes which is very strong and will get you far. Having a strength in axes means he can also easily pick up Death Blow along the way meaning he gets a total +12 damage when he uses Swift Strikes! That said, I did a hybrid Dark Knight build for him and he was pretty good at both magic and physical attacks, but it was very heavy investment: Soldier* / Monk >  Dark Mage* / Cavalier > / Paladin* / Dark Bishop* > Dark Knight. Getting him some levels in mage classes helped build his magic enough to ORKO armored units in the endgame (with some adjacency bonuses and sometimes Magic Staff was needed to get enough damage) . While he was still able to ORKO some physical units using Swift Strikes, and easily any riders using Spear of Assal.

45 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Lysithea - Monk > Mage (Master) > Bishop > Gremory

Not sure why you're going Bishop here. I think Warlock is better for bow breaker to make her better against archers. I doubt Bishop's Renewal will make much of a difference considering she will get killed easily by anyone if she's hit.

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1 hour ago, Owns said:

Not sure why you're going Bishop here. I think Warlock is better for bow breaker to make her better against archers. I doubt Bishop's Renewal will make much of a difference considering she will get killed easily by anyone if she's hit.

I think it's because with Lysithea as a Bishop would have the earliest access to 2x warp since the bishop class offers double uses of white magic. So for movement purposes it's nice to have it early on. Though Gremory would still be her go to end game class since it doubles the use all magic. Renewal isn't that great on her like you said since her defenses and hp are paper thin. Like she'll die to a stiff breeze of a hit. Renewal is better used on tank units since they tend to take less damage anyways. Even with her Thyrsus staff granting her Aegis + Pavise because of her naturally high dex stat growth can only do so much for her. I use it because of the extra range it offers her which can also be combined with dark magic range +1 in her case giving her a combined whooping 5 range spell list for her to play around with.

So it's 2 range because of her spells, plus 2 more from the staff plus 1 more for the ability makes this 5 move class quite good

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42 minutes ago, Barren said:

I think it's because with Lysithea as a Bishop would have the earliest access to 2x warp since the bishop class offers double uses of white magic. So for movement purposes it's nice to have it early on. Though Gremory would still be her go to end game class since it doubles the use all magic. Renewal isn't that great on her like you said since her defenses and hp are paper thin. Like she'll die to a stiff breeze of a hit. Renewal is better used on tank units since they tend to take less damage anyways. Even with her Thyrsus staff granting her Aegis + Pavise because of her naturally high dex stat growth can only do so much for her. I use it because of the extra range it offers her which can also be combined with dark magic range +1 in her case giving her a combined whooping 5 range spell list for her to play around with.

So it's 2 range because of her spells, plus 2 more from the staff plus 1 more for the ability makes this 5 move class quite good

Oh that's a good point about boosting her faith skill. I'll keep it in mind for my current GD run. I usually prefer warlock for dedicated mages because the black tomefaire is also nice to have, but in Lysithea's case her damage will likely be high enough to not need it. Oh and her learned spells are dark magic anyway, so black tomefaire wouldn't be of benefit. Bowbreaker can be useful too but isn't too important. I suppose Dark Knight could bump her damage with Dark Tomefaire but again, she probably doesn't need it. Even the canto and movement bonus of dark knight is easily compensated for by Thyrsus like you pointed out. Having double warp uses on the other hand is a great tool to have. Hadn't considered all these points before, so basically getting Lysithea to Gremory asap is clearly the best option as you suggested. Glad I ran into you this early in my GD run lol.

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@RainbowMoon Nice to see that you'll be playing through Azure Moon now! 

On 7/22/2020 at 11:28 AM, RainbowMoon said:

Ashe - Myrmidon > Thief > Assassin

I'm not sure if I should make Ashe my Assassin or have him go Bow Knight and make Shamir my Assassin instead.

On 7/22/2020 at 4:39 PM, RainbowMoon said:

Oh yeah true! I forgot about his Locktouch ability. I'll probably take him down the Bow Knight route and make Shamir my Assassin then.

Personally, I think that Ashe works best going through this route: 

Fighter -> Brigand -> Wyvern Rider -> Wyvern Lord (you can mix up Archer/Sniper in there if you want)

Ashe tends to get stat screwed, especially in Strength, so giving him access to Death Blow and making him a Wyvern Lord fixes most of those issues. Plus, having a flying locktouch unit is pretty fun to use. He'd still be a great Bow Knight (or Assassin? Idk, I've never tried that), but I personally prefer Wyvern Lord Ashe.

3 hours ago, Owns said:

When you run into pesky long range mages towards the endgame, use Retribution gambit on him with Rally Res/Spd, Pure water, Evade Ring and just have him stand somewhere to bait them all during enemy phase.

You mean, kill every last one of them?

Yeah, for Dimitri, I had him go through Lord (because it looked cool) and Cavalier/Paladin for good growths in everything besides Speed and that sweet unexpected Aegis proc. I do agree that Battalion Vantage + Battalion Wrath sounds very fun. I haven't tried it yet, but it's definitely on my to-do list now.

3 hours ago, Owns said:

That said, I did a hybrid Dark Knight build for him and he was pretty good at both magic and physical attacks, but it was very heavy investment: Soldier* / Monk >  Dark Mage* / Cavalier > / Paladin* / Dark Bishop* > Dark Knight. Getting him some levels in mage classes helped build his magic enough to ORKO armored units in the endgame (with some adjacency bonuses and sometimes Magic Staff was needed to get enough damage) . While he was still able to ORKO some physical units using Swift Strikes, and easily any riders using Spear of Assal.

Trying to build a hybrid Dark Knight Sylvain right now, thanks for the tips! Nice to see that investing in magic and lance for Swift Strikes is a pretty valid option. Unpopular opinion, but I think mixed attacker units are super cool; I mean, I know they're not optimal or anything, but it just seems more fun to wield magic and physical weapons at the same time. 

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Uhh, Brigand is an intermediate class. Also, I don't think it's worth going out of your way to have Dimitri get Death Blow (and your planned class path for him is too long in the first place).

Ah jeez I'm dumb lol

I keep thinking it's beginner for some reason. I'll go back and fix my post. Thanks for catching that.

So if I drop Brigand and just go Soldier > Myrmidon > Mercenary (Master) > Swordmaster > High Lord > Great Lord, do you think that'll be enough given the time frame?

27 minutes ago, Barren said:

For Marianne, you don't necessary need her to go Bishop before Dark Flier. Actually, if you have her go mage, you can also have her go warlock and master that class to learn bowbreaker. Dark Fliers are weak to arrows so bowbreaker would add that extra layer of protection for her since she'll be constantly using black magic anyways.

Will going the pure black magic route hurt her white magic potential though? I still want her to be able to function as a healer.

23 minutes ago, Owns said:

Not sure why you're going Bishop here. I think Warlock is better for bow breaker to make her better against archers. I doubt Bishop's Renewal will make much of a difference considering she will get killed easily by anyone if she's hit.

Mainly to get double Warp earlier on than Gremory like @Barren said. I wasn't planning on mastering Bishop, just using it as something to bridge the gap between Mage and Gremory.

1 hour ago, Owns said:

The simplest and arguably strongest path for Sylvain is simply Soldier > Cavalier / Brigand* > Paladin* and stick to paladin. He learns Swift Strikes which is very strong and will get you far. Having a strength in axes means he can also easily pick up Death Blow along the way meaning he gets a total +12 damage when he uses Swift Strikes! That said, I did a hybrid Dark Knight build for him and he was pretty good at both magic and physical attacks, but it was very heavy investment: Soldier* / Monk >  Dark Mage* / Cavalier > / Paladin* / Dark Bishop* > Dark Knight. Getting him some levels in mage classes helped build his magic enough to ORKO armored units in the endgame (with some adjacency bonuses and sometimes Magic Staff was needed to get enough damage) . While he was still able to ORKO some physical units using Swift Strikes, and easily any riders using Spear of Assal.

Damn... so a magic Sylvain really isn't worth it then? I'd hoped to make him into something different since Ingrid and Hilda pretty much do everything he does as a Paladin but with the added bonus of flight. Should I give him his Lance of Ruin back? I was planning on giving it to Ingrid with the matching crest item since she can't get Lúin without Dorothea (I'm not recruiting any Black Eagles). Or would she make better use of it?

2 hours ago, Owns said:

I have a suggestion for Dimitri that's much simpler and makes good use of his unique abilities. He's the only character in the game who gets battalion vantage as well as battalion wrath. If you set him up with a 1/3 endurance battalion he will be an enemy phase monster. I highly recommend using this setup whenever possible. Giving him an accuracy ring can help make his counter attacks more reliable but isn't necessary. Mastering Brigand won't help if you're relying on battalion vantage/wrath combo since Death Blow is a player phase ability. His weakness in axes just makes getting him there such a waste imo, and he has the highest str growth in the game, he'll be fine without Death Blow.

As for how to build him, I think there are multiple routes you can take. I liked getting his sword to A since he also learns Windsweep who only Byleth can also learn from non-dlc characters. It's great against bosses or tough enemies who can't be OHKO'd. I'd still be training him in lances as well though, they deal more damage, and combining a crit weapon like Killer Lance+ or Killer Sword+ or Cursed Ashiya Sword+ with Battalion Wrath/Vantage gets you to very high crit values. When you run into pesky long range mages towards the endgame, use Retribution gambit on him with Rally Res/Spd, Pure water, Evade Ring and just have him stand somewhere to bait them all during enemy phase. Here's a link to a post showing this tactic.

so: Soldier* / Myrmidon* > Thief > Swordmaster / Assassin > High Lord* > Great Lord*.

Going up the Thief and SM classes will boost his speed, with which an evade ring makes him quite dodgy. Not quite an evade tank who will dodge everything, but pretty good, especially under cover of trees. Ch 13 will be much easier if he can evade. Thief also helps his already high dex growths for more crits. Assassin is better to level as than SM simply because it also boosts dex, not just speed but requires bow training to certify. This is more or less the build I used for my maddening run though I also had him certified in Cavalier for an early canto as needed.

Alternatively, you could go: Soldier* > Cavalier > Paladin* > High Lord > Great Lord. Advantage here being he gets canto which is great and overall better stats but lower speed. Aegis from Paladin is a very nice ability and is triggered by Dex% which goes well with his high Dex growth. You get Dex+4 from riding too. In the end, I don't recommend a complicated route for Dimitri because you won't be able to train him for a good chunk of Part 2.

Okay, so if I'm set on a foot locked path, I should go Soldier* / Myrmidon* > Thief > Swordmaster / Assassin > High Lord* > Great Lord*, with a good batallion to match his skills and a high crit weapon like Killing Edge or Killer Lance. I'd rather use the Chalice of Beginnings though instead of an Accuracy Ring if that's okay. Now I know you're saying Thief > Assassin is the best for dex growths, but how well would Mercenary > Swordmaster work in its place if I don't want to train him in bow for Assassin?

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24 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

Ah jeez I'm dumb lol

I keep thinking it's beginner for some reason. I'll go back and fix my post. Thanks for catching that.

So if I drop Brigand and just go Soldier > Myrmidon > Mercenary (Master) > Swordmaster > High Lord > Great Lord, do you think that'll be enough given the time frame?

I think that's still too long.

25 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

Damn... so a magic Sylvain really isn't worth it then? I'd hoped to make him into something different since Ingrid and Hilda pretty much do everything he does as a Paladin but with the added bonus of flight. Should I give him his Lance of Ruin back? I was planning on giving it to Ingrid with the matching crest item since she can't get Lúin without Dorothea (I'm not recruiting any Black Eagles). Or would she make better use of it?

In fact, in part 1, you don't need to have recruited both characters the paralogue is centered around. That changes in part 2, where you need both characters. Part 2 also has more paralogues that require characters from two different houses.

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55 minutes ago, SirErrant said:

You mean, kill every last one of them?

Yep, every last one of them that he can bait at least. With the exception of units using Arms. You can't counter attack units hitting you with fire orbs, ballista, onager, etc. Those you'll still have to look out for. Impregnable Wall helps in those cases, or Warp/Stride+Rescue assassination tactics.

 

55 minutes ago, SirErrant said:

Trying to build a hybrid Dark Knight Sylvain right now, thanks for the tips!

For what it's worth, if I had to do it again, I'd skip Dark Mage and just master Mage for Fiendish Blow. While Poison Strike was very good in the mid-game when he still wasn't at full strength, I stopped using it in the late game it just wasn't important on him. Then again it was very useful in the early-mid game allowing him to take a chunk out of an enemy from range then another unit finishing them off. Up to you. Lifetaker from Dark Bishop on the other hand was excellent and made him much more sustainable. For example some armored units wield a tomahawk, he can ORKO them but not without taking heavy damage. Lifetaker means he regains full HP after the battle. Similarly with Spear of Assal against enemy riders. Often he can double attack them instead of using Swift Strikes, regaining his HP and saving on weapon repair costs (hard to get Mythril). Bear in mind though, that you will need to make full use of adjacency damage bonuses to get ORKO's in the last couple of chapters with this build. But that was on Maddening, if you're playing Hard you should be good. (Also, Fiendish Blow would've fixed this issue). I should also mention I got his lance skill to S+ too so he had Lancefaire as well as Black Tomefaire as a Dark Knight.

49 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

Now I know you're saying Thief > Assassin is the best for dex growths, but how well would Mercenary > Swordmaster work in its place if I don't want to train him in bow for Assassin?

Merc > SM works fine. You could also do Thief > SM without the need of bows. Merc gets you Vantage; not too important if you use Battalion Vantage, but still useful and better than steal. The main advantage of Thief over Merc is better speed and dex growths which I think are worth it but both routes are okay. Oh and thieves can move through forest tiles without movement penalty which is extremely useful.

Edited by Owns
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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

In fact, in part 1, you don't need to have recruited both characters the paralogue is centered around. That changes in part 2, where you need both characters. Part 2 also has more paralogues that require characters from two different houses.

Fair warning: this is true, but you do not get all of the rewards if both characters aren't recruited.  As an example: Ingrid's paralogue will not give you Lúin if you haven't recruited Ingrid, and it will not give you the Goddess Ring if you haven't recruited Dorothea.

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