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TheChoZenOne

Three Houses Maddening Help/Opinions

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I am doing a stream on my channel of me doing Maddening Mode with no new game+ or Divine Pulse uses. I'm using only the Golden Deer. Is it smart to make my units that have low strength become a brigand for Death blow skill and some of my slower units to become pegasus knights for Darting Blow skill? Should I also get "Weight -5 "from Armor skill C rank for all my units that want to double more? Lastly should I spent time having some of my units in an armor knight class for extra defense? Any other skills I should grab from other classes? Thank you for the tips guys. I am still semi casual at FE so just want to know if this is optimal enough to get this challenge completed because it's been kicking my butt so far lol Also here is the stream for anyone interested!! 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, TheChoZenOne said:

Is it smart to make my units that have low strength become a brigand for Death blow skill and some of my slower units to become pegasus knights for Darting Blow skill? Should I also get "Weight -5 "from Armor skill C rank for all my units that want to double more? Lastly should I spent time having some of my units in an armor knight class for extra defense?

I think Darting Blow wouldn't help slower units much (and off the top of my head, some of the slower units in the game are male anyway). Also, C Heavy Armor gives you Weight -3; Weight -5 requires A+ Heavy Armor (and isn't worth it, as for all that effort, you only get 2 more AS than you would with Weight -3). As to Armored Knight, just qualifying for the class raises your defense to 12 if it was lower than that.

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You're doing a maddening livestream having never beaten maddening before? I've never followed livestreams so don't know what people look for in them, but is that smart?

You can check out some of the builds listed here for ideas on what to do with your characters. Some have screenshots showing equipped abilities and so on. Good luck.

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some things really quick...
Do the paralouges. I can't stress that enough. It will make your life so much easier (or at least easier as maddening goes)
If you're not doing recruitless, then some valuable units to get (in my opinion at least) would be Bernadetta (she can do wicked damage with her personal skill and Vengence, if you get her to C+ in lances and have low-ish health (defence pair up will be super useful if you want to do that)),  Felix (he does pretty good damage and his crest activates way too often imo (not complaining)), Ingrid (she made a very great dodge tank in my maddening playthrough, having enemy hit rates be >10 is amazing), and Mercedes (she makes a fantastic healer, which can allow Marianne to be a dancer without losing a primary healer (Linhardt would also be a good option if you want The Exhaustable (Bernadetta's bow) and still have a great healer)).
Farming and Fishing. I find that weapons break often in maddening (most likely because I use a lot of combat arts to kill things) and fishing can provide the gold to afford all those weapons while farming can provide you with stat boosting items so you don't have to try as hard to kill things in one round.
That's all the advice I can think of right now, and good luck

Edited by Gabeatron9002
worded a phrase poorly

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I think Darting Blow wouldn't help slower units much (and off the top of my head, some of the slower units in the game are male anyway). Also, C Heavy Armor gives you Weight -3; Weight -5 requires A+ Heavy Armor (and isn't worth it, as for all that effort, you only get 2 more AS than you would with Weight -3). As to Armored Knight, just qualifying for the class raises your defense to 12 if it was lower than that.

Thank you for the tips and clearing that up!! Means a lot!! 😁

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1 hour ago, Owns said:

You're doing a maddening livestream having never beaten maddening before? I've never followed livestreams so don't know what people look for in them, but is that smart?

You can check out some of the builds listed here for ideas on what to do with your characters. Some have screenshots showing equipped abilities and so on. Good luck.

It's not about being smart lol I want to do it because I just do. It's for fun and because I enjoy the challenge and I know there's gonna be a lot of struggles but thats what makes the journey more entertaining. Also thanks for the tips!! 

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55 minutes ago, Gabeatron9002 said:

some things really quick...
Do the paralouges. I can't stress that enough. It will make your life so much easier (or at least easier as maddening goes)
If you're not doing recruitless, then some valuable units to get (in my opinion at least) would be Bernadetta (she can do wicked damage with her personal skill and Vengence, if you get her to C+ in lances and have low-ish health (defence pair up will be super useful if you want to do that)),  Felix (he does pretty good damage and his crest activates way too often imo (not complaining)), Ingrid (she made a very great dodge tank in my maddening playthrough, having enemy hit rates be >10 is amazing), and Mercedes (she makes a fantastic healer, which can allow Marianne to be a dancer without losing a primary healer (Linhardt would also be a good option if you want The Exhaustable (Bernadetta's bow) and still have a great healer)).
Farming and Fishing. I find that weapons break often in maddening (most likely because I use a lot of combat arts to kill things) and fishing can provide the gold to afford all those weapons while farming can provide you with stat boosting items so you don't have to try as hard to kill things in one round.
That's all the advice I can think of right now, and good luck

I am doing a recruitless besides having Hapi as well but thank you for all the advice!! It means a lot!! 😁

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1 hour ago, TheChoZenOne said:

It's not about being smart lol I want to do it because I just do. It's for fun and because I enjoy the challenge and I know there's gonna be a lot of struggles but thats what makes the journey more entertaining. Also thanks for the tips!! 

It certainly is a fun challenge. The no divine pulses restriction sounds tough, I recommend checking out the Iron Man builds by @Atano, linked in that post I referenced before. He has some tips/explanations in his posts and comments section for how he survived it. Enjoy your run and good luck.

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1 hour ago, Owns said:

It certainly is a fun challenge. The no divine pulses restriction sounds tough, I recommend checking out the Iron Man builds by @Atano, linked in that post I referenced before. He has some tips/explanations in his posts and comments section for how he survived it. Enjoy your run and good luck.

Thank you man!! 😁 Will do!!

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Hi! Just checked your first video (not everything, I skipped through just to see how you would play), and I want to raise my opinion on Ignatz: you should not make him a Bow Knight, he'll never have the strength and speed to one round anything with this class. You should keep him as a Sniper and focus early Authority ranks to get access to Rally Speed.

Since you spend your first instructs on him on Riding, it's unlikely you'll get it for Chapter 2, but you can fix that for Chapter 3, it will ease the beginning of the game by allowing your units not to be doubled by anything.

Get D Authority asap, unlock his hidden talent in Reason (Seal Strength) and unlock Break Shot at C+ Bow. After that, get D+ rank in Axe so he can get Brigand at level 10 for Death Blow, and you can just straigth up keep instructing him in Bow and Authority for the rest of the game and unlock Sniper as his final class. He'll be amazing and super useful throughout the game, especially in the beginning, and will one-round a lot with Hunter's Volley and a Killer Bow+ one you master Sniper. He's way worse as a Bow Knight since he loses his ability to kill stuff.

I also recommend to get A rank Authority on him before the time skip (totally doable without too much focus), so you can give him the Indech Sword Fighters as a battalion (unlocked with Manuela and Hanneman paralogue), since it's the only battalion with Retribution you'll get in a recruitless NG VW run, and he's the main contender for it with his boon in Authority and the stats that the battalion provides (+8 damage, extra hit and crit).

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I was watching your stream and you were at the Battle of Eagle and Lion map. After that map you get a battalion that has the Impregnable Wall gambit. That gambit lets you safely bait enemies. And pay attention to battalions in general, I think some of your units could be missing out on stuff like +3 Atk or Magic so that they can actually do damage to the Maddening enemies. I agree with what Myssdii is saying about Ignatz, but I don't think Seal Strength matters that much especially since you weren't build your Ignatz that way from the beginning.

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Maddening NG with no divine pulses, particularly if you are unfamiliar with maddening, is a bad idea.  The game is plenty hard on maddening even with divine pulses, and unless you've memorized the game script the same-turn reinforcements can easily kill a unit out of nowhere.  The plus side is that the first few missions of the game are some of the toughest, so you should have a good idea of the scale of how difficult it is early in the run.

The biggest challenge in Maddening is dealing with enemy units' insane speed.  There are two general strategies to combat this: Rely on units with powerful combat arts to ORKO enemies before they can attack or rely on extremely fast units in fast classes to ensure they can't be followed up.  Personally, I prefer the latter route particularly if you're doing Pulse-less run, as getting ORKOs generally requires never missing with the combat arts, and misses do have a tendency to happen.

If you're going with the former strategy, the key units are Ferdinand (Swift Strikes), Sylvain (Swift Strikes), Seteth (Swift Strikes), and Bernadetta (Vengeance).  Swift Strikes allows for two consecutive attacks prior to an enemy counterattack, which provides the opportunity to kill an enemy before damage is returned.  Throw in some mages/archers and maybe a warmaster and you have a team.  The weakness of the strategy is that it heavily taxes your weapon durability (non trivial through the midgame), it leans heavily on lances (enemies with the lancebreaker skill will be extremely dangerous), and if your units start taking attacks they will be torn through like paper.

If you're going for the latter strategy, the key units will be Petra, Felix, Ingrid, and Leonie.  These are the units with the highest speed growths in the game, and typically want to be put in classes that further enhance it.   Further, its straightforward to turn these units into dodgetanks such that physical units will pose very little threat to you for most of the game.  Ensure that from this group you have at least one sword-user, one lance-user, and one axe-user (I like Assassin Felix, Falcon Knight Ingrid, and Wyvern Lord Petra) to take advantage of axebreaker, swordbreaker, and lancebreaker respectively, tack on Alert Stance/Alert Stance+ and be on your way.  Again, throw in some mages/archers and maybe a warmaster and you have a team.  The downside to this strategy is that its more micromanaging.  You need to pay attention to the classic weapon triangle and make sure that you have the right units taking attacks from the right enemies.  The upside is that when it's functioning properly, you units can have avoidance rates of over 100%.  It's very satisfying to see an enemy attack one of your units and only have a 12% chance to hit.

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11 hours ago, Myssdii said:

Hi! Just checked your first video (not everything, I skipped through just to see how you would play), and I want to raise my opinion on Ignatz: you should not make him a Bow Knight, he'll never have the strength and speed to one round anything with this class. You should keep him as a Sniper and focus early Authority ranks to get access to Rally Speed.

Since you spend your first instructs on him on Riding, it's unlikely you'll get it for Chapter 2, but you can fix that for Chapter 3, it will ease the beginning of the game by allowing your units not to be doubled by anything.

Get D Authority asap, unlock his hidden talent in Reason (Seal Strength) and unlock Break Shot at C+ Bow. After that, get D+ rank in Axe so he can get Brigand at level 10 for Death Blow, and you can just straigth up keep instructing him in Bow and Authority for the rest of the game and unlock Sniper as his final class. He'll be amazing and super useful throughout the game, especially in the beginning, and will one-round a lot with Hunter's Volley and a Killer Bow+ one you master Sniper. He's way worse as a Bow Knight since he loses his ability to kill stuff.

I also recommend to get A rank Authority on him before the time skip (totally doable without too much focus), so you can give him the Indech Sword Fighters as a battalion (unlocked with Manuela and Hanneman paralogue), since it's the only battalion with Retribution you'll get in a recruitless NG VW run, and he's the main contender for it with his boon in Authority and the stats that the battalion provides (+8 damage, extra hit and crit).

Understood. Thank you for the tips!! 😁

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6 hours ago, LoneStar said:

I was watching your stream and you were at the Battle of Eagle and Lion map. After that map you get a battalion that has the Impregnable Wall gambit. That gambit lets you safely bait enemies. And pay attention to battalions in general, I think some of your units could be missing out on stuff like +3 Atk or Magic so that they can actually do damage to the Maddening enemies. I agree with what Myssdii is saying about Ignatz, but I don't think Seal Strength matters that much especially since you weren't build your Ignatz that way from the beginning.

I see. Thank you for the tips!! 😁

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5 hours ago, SumG said:

Maddening NG with no divine pulses, particularly if you are unfamiliar with maddening, is a bad idea.  The game is plenty hard on maddening even with divine pulses, and unless you've memorized the game script the same-turn reinforcements can easily kill a unit out of nowhere.  The plus side is that the first few missions of the game are some of the toughest, so you should have a good idea of the scale of how difficult it is early in the run.

The biggest challenge in Maddening is dealing with enemy units' insane speed.  There are two general strategies to combat this: Rely on units with powerful combat arts to ORKO enemies before they can attack or rely on extremely fast units in fast classes to ensure they can't be followed up.  Personally, I prefer the latter route particularly if you're doing Pulse-less run, as getting ORKOs generally requires never missing with the combat arts, and misses do have a tendency to happen.

If you're going with the former strategy, the key units are Ferdinand (Swift Strikes), Sylvain (Swift Strikes), Seteth (Swift Strikes), and Bernadetta (Vengeance).  Swift Strikes allows for two consecutive attacks prior to an enemy counterattack, which provides the opportunity to kill an enemy before damage is returned.  Throw in some mages/archers and maybe a warmaster and you have a team.  The weakness of the strategy is that it heavily taxes your weapon durability (non trivial through the midgame), it leans heavily on lances (enemies with the lancebreaker skill will be extremely dangerous), and if your units start taking attacks they will be torn through like paper.

If you're going for the latter strategy, the key units will be Petra, Felix, Ingrid, and Leonie.  These are the units with the highest speed growths in the game, and typically want to be put in classes that further enhance it.   Further, its straightforward to turn these units into dodgetanks such that physical units will pose very little threat to you for most of the game.  Ensure that from this group you have at least one sword-user, one lance-user, and one axe-user (I like Assassin Felix, Falcon Knight Ingrid, and Wyvern Lord Petra) to take advantage of axebreaker, swordbreaker, and lancebreaker respectively, tack on Alert Stance/Alert Stance+ and be on your way.  Again, throw in some mages/archers and maybe a warmaster and you have a team.  The downside to this strategy is that its more micromanaging.  You need to pay attention to the classic weapon triangle and make sure that you have the right units taking attacks from the right enemies.  The upside is that when it's functioning properly, you units can have avoidance rates of over 100%.  It's very satisfying to see an enemy attack one of your units and only have a 12% chance to hit.

Lol I know, I'm crazy. XD But I'm doing it for fun and for an extra challenge. Wish me luck. Also thank you for all the tips, it means a lot. I will keep this in mind for one of my future runs because im using only Golden Deer for this one.

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21 hours ago, SumG said:

Maddening NG with no divine pulses, particularly if you are unfamiliar with maddening, is a bad idea.  The game is plenty hard on maddening even with divine pulses, and unless you've memorized the game script the same-turn reinforcements can easily kill a unit out of nowhere.  The plus side is that the first few missions of the game are some of the toughest, so you should have a good idea of the scale of how difficult it is early in the run.

The biggest challenge in Maddening is dealing with enemy units' insane speed.  There are two general strategies to combat this: Rely on units with powerful combat arts to ORKO enemies before they can attack or rely on extremely fast units in fast classes to ensure they can't be followed up.  Personally, I prefer the latter route particularly if you're doing Pulse-less run, as getting ORKOs generally requires never missing with the combat arts, and misses do have a tendency to happen.

If you're going with the former strategy, the key units are Ferdinand (Swift Strikes), Sylvain (Swift Strikes), Seteth (Swift Strikes), and Bernadetta (Vengeance).  Swift Strikes allows for two consecutive attacks prior to an enemy counterattack, which provides the opportunity to kill an enemy before damage is returned.  Throw in some mages/archers and maybe a warmaster and you have a team.  The weakness of the strategy is that it heavily taxes your weapon durability (non trivial through the midgame), it leans heavily on lances (enemies with the lancebreaker skill will be extremely dangerous), and if your units start taking attacks they will be torn through like paper.

If you're going for the latter strategy, the key units will be Petra, Felix, Ingrid, and Leonie.  These are the units with the highest speed growths in the game, and typically want to be put in classes that further enhance it.   Further, its straightforward to turn these units into dodgetanks such that physical units will pose very little threat to you for most of the game.  Ensure that from this group you have at least one sword-user, one lance-user, and one axe-user (I like Assassin Felix, Falcon Knight Ingrid, and Wyvern Lord Petra) to take advantage of axebreaker, swordbreaker, and lancebreaker respectively, tack on Alert Stance/Alert Stance+ and be on your way.  Again, throw in some mages/archers and maybe a warmaster and you have a team.  The downside to this strategy is that its more micromanaging.  You need to pay attention to the classic weapon triangle and make sure that you have the right units taking attacks from the right enemies.  The upside is that when it's functioning properly, you units can have avoidance rates of over 100%.  It's very satisfying to see an enemy attack one of your units and only have a 12% chance to hit.

Cyril:  joins with C and a half bows, gets point blank volley at C+. Has the axe rank at base to qualify for Brigand. Meanwhile, you're suggesting an A rank lance combat art lol.

Also Cyril:  has the same speed growths as Petra and Leonie.

You didn't mention him. It makes me weep.

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2 hours ago, Ownagepuffs said:

Cyril:  joins with C and a half bows, gets point blank volley at C+. Has the axe rank at base to qualify for Brigand. Meanwhile, you're suggesting an A rank lance combat art lol.

Also Cyril:  has the same speed growths as Petra and Leonie.

You didn't mention him. It makes me weep.

Point Blank Volley (and more generally Hunter's Volley) are both good combat arts that work in the more aggressive strategy.  I did neglect to mention those.  I assumed Hunter's Volley was a given, but it's fair to give Point Blank Volley particular note (for both Cyril and Leonie).

Cyril has comparable base speed growth as the other fast units in the game, but has likely won't get need the other units in terms of speed.  First, Cyril starts out with only 6 base speed (compared to 9+ for most of the other fast units I mentioned).  Second, Cyril is a male and so does not get access to Darting Blow, which is tremendously useful in the midgame until the speed growth rates can make a real difference.  And third, Cyril is best served as an archer of some sort (he has serious accuracy issues if you send him down the Wyvern class progression), and those classes (archer, sniper, bow knight) do not provide any sort of bonus to speed growth that the other units are likely to take advantage of (even if you're doing a Wyvern Lord Petra you're still able to pick up Darting Blow pretty easily and spend some time as a Pegasus Knight).

I've trying using Cyril on Maddening and he just doesn't make the cut as a good unit.

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He gets PBV in the same month you recruit him if you focus it. 1 level later he can go brigand. From there he can go wyvern from flying and axe focus. Then if you feel like vengeance he can do some lances once he meets minimum benchmarks for wyvern. You need Lance for lord anyway so might as well pick up Vengeance.

His speed is irrelevant because he has a brave combat art. It eventually grows to a surprisingly high point, though. I don't know how you're struggling with accuracy. You're saying you tried to use him and he doesnt make the cut. He more or less starts ORKOing the moment you get him. This is still during the point of the game where you're using 2-3 units to gang up for a kill.

Cyril is best served as a PBV Wyvern. It's something only he will be doing for a very, very, long time. Never encountered any accuracy issues going down Wyvern. Why are you making him an archer class? Did you not forge? Or use linked attacks? Or an accuracy ring?

I'm using Cyril on Maddening and he dumpsters a lot of my army. He does at C+ what units literally wait until A rank for.

Edited by Ownagepuffs
Sentence structure

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2 hours ago, Ownagepuffs said:

Never encountered any accuracy issues going down Wyvern.

When I was trying out a Wyvern Cyril I was using axes.  And compared to the other Wyvern units I've used it was a poor build.  Not fast enough to double and not accurate enough.  I'd not thought of doing a bow-centered build for wyvern, since it seems like it would hurt to give up a class-based X-faire ability and effectively forgoing the possibility of getting to S+ weapon proficiency since you don't get a class bonus there.  I'd really worry about damage output as you get towards the end of the game when enemy HP tends to balloon.

I've never favored the brave combat art approach to maddening.  Typically by the time you gain access to those combat arts the units in your party already have access to Darting Blow.  It makes the combat arts unnecessary, and typically those units are significantly more survivable on enemy phase just due to their speed (and that's before considering things like Alert Stance and X-breaker skills).

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On 7/23/2020 at 3:28 AM, Myssdii said:

Hi! Just checked your first video (not everything, I skipped through just to see how you would play), and I want to raise my opinion on Ignatz: you should not make him a Bow Knight, he'll never have the strength and speed to one round anything with this class. You should keep him as a Sniper and focus early Authority ranks to get access to Rally Speed.

Since you spend your first instructs on him on Riding, it's unlikely you'll get it for Chapter 2, but you can fix that for Chapter 3, it will ease the beginning of the game by allowing your units not to be doubled by anything.

Get D Authority asap, unlock his hidden talent in Reason (Seal Strength) and unlock Break Shot at C+ Bow. After that, get D+ rank in Axe so he can get Brigand at level 10 for Death Blow, and you can just straigth up keep instructing him in Bow and Authority for the rest of the game and unlock Sniper as his final class. He'll be amazing and super useful throughout the game, especially in the beginning, and will one-round a lot with Hunter's Volley and a Killer Bow+ one you master Sniper. He's way worse as a Bow Knight since he loses his ability to kill stuff.

I also recommend to get A rank Authority on him before the time skip (totally doable without too much focus), so you can give him the Indech Sword Fighters as a battalion (unlocked with Manuela and Hanneman paralogue), since it's the only battalion with Retribution you'll get in a recruitless NG VW run, and he's the main contender for it with his boon in Authority and the stats that the battalion provides (+8 damage, extra hit and crit).

You will be surprised. My Ignatz is extremely blessed this run, im so happy with him. His strength and speed is really great, so maybe bow knight would be good for the extra movement and bowfaire I believe you get from it? All I know is my Ignatz is my best unit by far

Edited by TheChoZenOne

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4 minutes ago, TheChoZenOne said:

You will be surprised. My Ignatz is extremely blessed this run, im so happy with him. His strength and speed is really great, so maybe bow knight would be good for the extra movement and bowfaire I believe you get from it? All I know is my Ignatz is my best unit by far

Yeah, Bow Knight gets more movement and bow range compared to Sniper. Generally most people seem to prefer the brave combat art Sniper gives, but there’s no harm in certifying for it and switching between them if you think one class would do better on a certain map.

Anyway, with regards to the actual topic, you’re a madman. I’m completely down with that, I’ll have to check your stream out at some point. I don’t have any specific tips other than “brave combat arts good”. Sniper has been mentioned already, but I’ll add Grappler: it gets a combat art that lets the unit attack 3 times when the class is mastered. I don’t know if you have a plan for, say, Raphael or if he’s benched, but he’s a good fit for Grappler if you so desire. 
 

Other than that, there’s not much else to say other than good luck!

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15 minutes ago, Anathaco said:

Yeah, Bow Knight gets more movement and bow range compared to Sniper. Generally most people seem to prefer the brave combat art Sniper gives, but there’s no harm in certifying for it and switching between them if you think one class would do better on a certain map.

Anyway, with regards to the actual topic, you’re a madman. I’m completely down with that, I’ll have to check your stream out at some point. I don’t have any specific tips other than “brave combat arts good”. Sniper has been mentioned already, but I’ll add Grappler: it gets a combat art that lets the unit attack 3 times when the class is mastered. I don’t know if you have a plan for, say, Raphael or if he’s benched, but he’s a good fit for Grappler if you so desire. 
 

Other than that, there’s not much else to say other than good luck!

Haha, thank you so much!! It's greatly appreciated!! Be sure to leave a like and subscribe if you want to see more fire emblem content!! And yeah definitely making Raphael a Grappler.

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15 hours ago, TheChoZenOne said:

You will be surprised. My Ignatz is extremely blessed this run, im so happy with him. His strength and speed is really great, so maybe bow knight would be good for the extra movement and bowfaire I believe you get from it? All I know is my Ignatz is my best unit by far

Sniper also gets Bowfaire, it's pretty much Hunter's Volley VS the extra movement and range. HV gives extra damage, hit and crit rate, which is absolutely busted, and you're guaranteed to double even the fastest units like QR Swordmasters and Falcon Knights. I mean, my latest Sniper Ignatz pretty much one-rounded any 10-elite on the final map of VW with at least 60% crit rate on HV, I don't think Bow Knight would have done it unless fed to death with stat boosters (when units like Goneril have 50 AS...).

If you like having the extra movement for support, go Bow Knight and with good stats he'll pull some weight, but if you want to one-round stuff on every map, stick with Sniper 🙂

I'm still happy to hear about blessed Ignatz, so have fun with him ^^

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10 hours ago, Myssdii said:

Sniper also gets Bowfaire, it's pretty much Hunter's Volley VS the extra movement and range. HV gives extra damage, hit and crit rate, which is absolutely busted, and you're guaranteed to double even the fastest units like QR Swordmasters and Falcon Knights. I mean, my latest Sniper Ignatz pretty much one-rounded any 10-elite on the final map of VW with at least 60% crit rate on HV, I don't think Bow Knight would have done it unless fed to death with stat boosters (when units like Goneril have 50 AS...).

If you like having the extra movement for support, go Bow Knight and with good stats he'll pull some weight, but if you want to one-round stuff on every map, stick with Sniper 🙂

I'm still happy to hear about blessed Ignatz, so have fun with him ^^

Oh nice!! Thanks for letting me know!! I think I will go for Sniper Ignatz then most likely!! 😁

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