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mangasdeouf

Conquest's fault is the base stats

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Hi,

So, now that I've taken the time to think of the origin of the problem rather than the problem itself, which is units having trouble with ennemies in early game in a FE game with PU and attack stance available, I'll explain myself.

You have access to a limited number of units, and in CQ OG you can't grind. You units at the moment they join have LOWER stats than several of the ennemies although they outnumber your troops. You may have 50% growth rate or even 70%, it ain't gonna save you if you have to play against seal speed ennemies who nearly double you before they even activate seal speed (looking at Effie with burning eyes), or against ennemies who can take 6 def away from your units.

I know what you'll say: "But if you know how to play the damn game, you know can kill them without being sealed, thresholds" nanani nanana. I don't think having to rely on insane level ups for Corrin in the first 6-7 chapters of the game is a good way to balance a game, neither is the fact that all your units need several hundreds of gold worth of TEMPORARY stat boosters just to not die in 1 attack stance +1 normal attack at the beginning of the game.

Look at Radiant Dawn part 3: the GMs all have a role they can play well enough from the get go. Gatrie is a General, Effie is a knight. Gatrie can take several hits of very powerful ennemies at base, Effie can take 2 hits and die at base. Gatrie's speed is busted to the point he can double some ennemies, while Effie's 55% spd growth allows to get to an average of...yeah, 12.7 speed at level 20, which is lower than Keaton's level 15 base speed and he's not particularly fast. Fast knight you said? Actually Effie can get doubled quite a lot and even take damage from the ennemies who double her, unlike Gilliam who can gain 1 point of speed and sit there for the whole game and not care at all since it's all he needs to break the speed threshold to not get doubled by any axeman in the early game while his def slowly grows into the amazing steel wall it becomes. Effie's speed lets her get doubled, Effie's def lets her get hurt (and not by paper balls, but rather by trucks of overstatted ennemies overloaded with skills giving them the edge on your already shitty units with non OP skills yet and who barely ever double anything aside from Niles who can't hurt anything but mages and pegasi, barely better than Kaze who can only hurt mages). And add to that the fact the ennemies also use attack or guard stance to inflate their damage or prevent you from ORKOing them, and that's what I call shitty game balance.

The level design would be fine if stat debuffs didn't exist at all and ennemy damage could be calculated easier (if you could know beforehand who would attack stance with who, in which order they would attack so you know how to prevent them from doing so, for example), but with these "OMG so flashy I want to play as a full ninja with poison, debuffs and OP stuff" ways to push naruto and ninjago fans into finally buying the game (just for them to get deceived because they'll manage to game over in chapter 1 in phoenix mode at any rate since they come from the most casual appealing part of kikooland) to make more cash and not to actually give the player a satisfying experience.

Look, most Faceless have 11-12 def from chapter 7 onwards in HARD, 24+ HP, 9-ish speed and nearly as much res as def, so you can't even burst them with a magic unit (reclassed Corrin/Felicia). Your own tanks have less HP than any ennemy on the map except Arthur who badly wants a bronze weapon to have actual accuracy and 0% crit chance against him. But Arthur, although he's a tanky juggernaut, lacks the defence to really do this job, and he lacks the speed to be a killer (sadly since he's probably the highest damage unit at base and his accuracy means that he wouldn't be OP if he was able to double).

On top of shitty retainers' base stats compared with ennemies, look at your units' levels, except Mozu, everyone is already past level 5 (Effie Silas 6, Arthur 7), which means...that they won't have many levels to actually benefit from high growth rates since exp gains are garbage as soon as you get 2-3 levels ahead. Which means they'll get like 2 points of each stat or something like that before stagnating for 2 chapters. And become shit again.

Now you have Camilla who joins just at the same time as her vastly inferior retainers (who I'd really have loved to be available in chapter 7 or 8 instead of 3rd turn of chapter 10 so they could actually be levelled up at that point, especially Beruka who starts with Arthur's speed but 2 levels higher, with lower growth and also 3 chapters later, in a chapter with ninja spamming and archers and defend the 4 escape points against 7 move fast pegasi she's 1 or 2 damage short of OHKOing anytime even with support, although they come by 3 at some point so you can't put 2 units to kill each one of them while being rushed by 24 damage onis on 2 sides, by ninja+spear fighters from another side and by Oboro and Hinata ll at the same time).

Camilla has stats your best units would get by level 18-20 or even after promotion. But she's already promoted. If you use her, she steals exp from your growth units who need it to be even relevant at all. If you don't let her get kills, she will become irrelevant once she can finally gain decent exp per kill. Unlike Seth, she's vulnerable to 25% of the ennemy units in the game since they love spamming bow wielders to put their arrows far in your butt. And they move in groups so she can't even kill the 1 archer in the formation and call it a day, because there's still 1 or even 2 of them around.

Xander has OP sword, but I'd prefer him having a lance in order to not be laughed at by ninjas who will enjoy debuffing the hell out of him and spamming poison strike so any shitty leftover ennemy can pick up Xander's life. Duessel is so much better at the same job it's not even funny (and actually Duessel takes more frontal damage than Xander since his defence isn't as high compared with ennemy damage and his level is also too high to gain substancial exp even from bosses, while Seth had all the chapter 1-8 to benefit from increased exp per kill to overlevelled units and that's the only reason he is so OP, because of the coded bonus exp to promoted units in early game, there's even a patch to disable it on FEBuilderGBA, but unlike Xander, Duessel doesn't face stat reductions, entrap, hex rods, freeze although sleep is even more annoying but still it's curable unlike freeze and hex, and Duessel doesn't suffer from poison strike shenanigans playing Awakening counter shenanigans but better without needing to die to apply their braindead tactics). Actually, since his stats are totaly those of a GK, I'd love him to be a GK and have a PERSONAL AXE, just like his dad (because 3 of his classes use an axe and he was birthed by an axe wielding overstatted king and his sister also wields an axe, even the little healer sister can wield a goddamn axe, why does Xander use a damn sword of all things in the game where swords really are at a disadvantage even with OP stats, range and 1-2 normal weapons can't double anymore?)! It would at least make sense from a story perspective (LOL story having sense in Fates).

So yeah, you start with some garbage units, with shitty stats, you have to face ennemies with higher stats than your units although they already outnumber you, and your only way to make up for it is to use attack stance against single ennemies to hope to kill them before you get killed (with very unequal accuracy) or dual guard and hope it doesn't get you killed. You also have to waste a ton of gold into temporary stat boosters just to not be cannon fodder for 8 chapters instead of having directly the base stats allowing your units to do their job. Add to all that the fact that you have to buy nearly every single healing item you need or want since they give you nearly none from the beginning of the game, that weapons above iron are about as useful as your fingers instead of toilet paper after you took a shit, and instead of these shitty weapons they give you for free because they know most won't even use them more than 3x in a playthrough due to how gimmicky they are (instead of letting durability, availability and price balance them), you'll have to buy or find tons of iron weapons you'll have to forge in order to have actual weapons and not even more stat debuffs on your already mediocre units (especially non royals). And shurikens give 2 speed for free while daggers have +5 accuracy, nice joke IS, next time try to think and playtest before selling the final product.

I've seen many people on these boards explain thresholds, strategies to kill this or that. I think I shouldn't need to follow an LTC guide just to enjoy the game in hard if there are only 2 non lunatic difficulties since normal should be called easy and phoenix mode is complete disrespect of the series. Or they could let you play phoenix on any difficulty if that's what we want to just take revenge on these * annoying ennemies on the hardest difficulty. It's a single player game, not an online MMO or MOBA where you have to ensure the player isn't OP from the get go facing handicapped ennemies (which is actually common in PVP MMO or MOBA since they release OP heroes or classes to sell skins and cosmetics or payable classes etc., thanks microtransactions for ruining gaming experience in general). I don't want my game to be a puzzle game in hard, I don't care if it is in lunatic since it's a mode for experts. Hard is for people who want non poop-made ennemies and actual ennemy density, not for masochists who like to play puzzle in a tactical RPG (and an RPG should always let you do things in the way you want, not trying to force you into doing specific things to cheese it, that is for LTC/speedrunning, not for casual play).

That's it, what are your thoughts?

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5 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

Duessel is so much better at the same job

The enemy stats in Sacred Stones are laughable, even on the highest difficulty, so I don't see how you can do a serious comparison of the two and say that Duessel is much better than Xander is.

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48 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

The enemy stats in Sacred Stones are laughable, even on the highest difficulty, so I don't see how you can do a serious comparison of the two and say that Duessel is much better than Xander is.

Duessel is inferior to Gilliam as a same type of unit but prepromote and overlevelled. His defense at level 8 GK is similar to level 18-20 knight Gilliam and his HP is barely better. Yet he still gets the job done. If you think SS is so easy wih weak ennemies I think you don't remember how much a simple 20% hit stone can completely kill your unit, because it can't move for several turns unless you can recover the stoned unit, who can't dodge on top of 30 free crit rate for the attacking unit. Sure, luna shamans don't scare me much with their 60 hit rate and 9 magic. But the sleep/berserk priests, purge/bolting sages, fast valkyries you can hardly ORKO (mainly ch17 where they're mixed with paladins and GKs not far from wyvern lord + wyvern riders and their reinforcements) with accurate magic, the vicious armor/horse slaying weapons hidden in formations you think you can ignore because your units are so gr8, the dangerous snipers (ch9 Eirika's route anyone?), the dragonzombies 2HKOing nearly everyone aside from capped HP units (even then, only a few dragon-Z have 29 attack, most have 30-31 and that's in normal since I barely played that stage on hard)...Lyon's 50-ish attack with magic (most physical units without pure water take 70-80% of their HP in 1 hit of Naglfar and Lyon's surrounded by gorgons who can gang up on any unit left in range if you didn't manage to 1 turn Lyon from the moment you can access him)...

I think people seriously underestimate TSS difficulty. It's by no means POR level of easy (seriously, past the chapters without BEXP it's so easy that you have to limit yourself on BEXP or let Marcia die in ch2 or 3 or never touch her in order to make the game any difficult in hard, even before that the only moment it's tense is the defend the fort chapters where you're surrounded and Boyd can easily fall due to bad biorythm and tempest amplifying it, ennemies barely get more than 2 AS for nearly 1/3rd of the game and even Gatrie has a chance to double with heavy weapons before he even ignores their weight, he can double several ennemies in the pirate chapter at the beginning with the steel lance that slows him down...). And so many people find POR to be such an amazing game although I could play it blindly in hard and the only hard part would be the last few chapters when ennemies suddenly start having something looking like stats and bosses having actual stats (and Ashnard if what I read is true about his broken stats and he steals the medallion).

Meanwhile TSS has several tricky ennemies or formations in several chapters past chapter 9 (chapter 10 Eirika has Pablo, whose crit rate and magic power + speed are all dangerous on top of being on a castle door for free avoid and def, chapter 11 Ephraim has anti-squishy tactics and you have to rush with Ephraim to save L'Arachel from her stupid suicide mission (even Dozla has a hard time with so many eyeballs looking bad at him, but they're magic eyeballs), chapter 12 Ephraim has a quite harsh start although it goes down when the starting point stops sending reinforcements, chapter 13 Eirika has so many cavalier reinforcement spam that you need to build a wall in order to protect you squishies, while running to the ballistas to avoid being shot, and putting Eirika just far enough from Cormag's starting point to avoid being OHKOed by a killer lance, and the boss is quite impressive if you don't use slayer weapons (he can crit kill several of your units or simply let them very low while taking little damage from non overlevelled units), then chapter 13 Ephraim has bolting on a very annoying map and hunt for the villages + stealables, chapter 14 Eirika has high crit rate 1-2 range swordmaster boss that really demands something like swordbreaker, swordslayer or a wall that can tank crits from him twice in a row and stay alive, with +30/40 avoid from throne on top of his speed and (maybe) luck. Ephraim has a boss that can OHKO your mages and is just a better version of Eirika's chapter 13 boss, but with long range staves and co.

Chapter 15 has Valter with a dangerous spear and fili shield, you need high crit evade or Caellach's crit shield in order to fight Valter safely, and he's still dangerous with his class that can activate pierce, his middling speed and good attack. Ch 16 has long range magic and groups of promoted ennemies who don't loose much AS with steel weapons (except warriors because steel axe is 15 Wt, I think none of them loose any AS), treasures, thieves to stop from stealing your treasures, ch 17 has civilians, fimbulvetr sage crossing the bridge when it's down, wyverns, brave weapon hero reinforcement alongside normal reinforcements, ch 18 has stone spam, eggs to kill on differents heights, ch 19 has darkness, snipers in top right corner with warriors, a useless Manfred who can't tke a hit to defend and low level unpromoted guards on the neutral side who barely slow the ennemies, and treasures to steal with thieves to intercept. It also has a postgame mode which has decent moments and allows you to do something after you completed the story rather than Final Fantasy IV DS save before boss and then just New game + but nothing after you beat the boss, can't even save after completing the game.

TSS is worth more than most people here advertise it for. And the story is decent and Lyon's a good bad guy with the moments when he's himself and tells the reasons for him to unleash the demon king and the moments when the DK is just being a dick pretending Lyon is still there while he's just playing like he is. I've seen much worse (especially with Conquest even though I didn't play much past chapter 22 or 23, one chapter after all the PCs are available) and my first blind run was very enjoyable, unlike POR and Conquest for different reasons.

Why is Duessel better than Xander? Because no debuff BS (inevitable end if I've read right) and poison strike spamming exist in TSS. When you look at the ennemies' main parameters you know what to expect and can build your tactics based on secured data, meanwhile with all the variables in CQ, there are so many things that can go wrong, so much more things to check that it's just a waste of time, attention and annoying to try and predict what can happen on the EP. Given how many ennemies there are you would expect this to be an EP centered game, but due to overcomplication of mechanics and of the data to take into count, you're better off simply doing your best to PP it because it makes overcomplicated things less relevant. Too flashy for its own good.

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In Chapter 7 there's choke-points available to limit the amount of enemies and positional skills such as Lily's Poise to assist with taking out the enemies. Additionally Silas can take advantage of his Vow of Friendship personal skill to greatly improve his combat even just by performing his action before you heal Corrin. I'd hardly say tonics are necessary for this map as the layout assists quite a lot.

2 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

just to not die in 1 attack stance +1 normal attack

Guard stance is there for precisely that reason as well.

 

2 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

why does Xander use a damn sword of all things

Probably because he's supposed to be equal to Ryoma and having an axe or a lance would diminish that symmetry.

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1 hour ago, mangasdeouf said:

Why is Duessel better than Xander? Because no debuff BS (inevitable end if I've read right) and poison strike spamming exist in TSS.

So your argument is that Duessel is better than Xander simply because Xander's game has different game mechanics than TSS? Well then, if the game mechanics are different, then I don't see how it is fair to compare the two of them in the first place. Also, if you managed to hack Duessel in to Conquest, I doubt he'd be much better than Xander is, if indeed he is.

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3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Duessel is inferior to Gilliam as a same type of unit but prepromote and overlevelled. His defense at level 8 GK is similar to level 18-20 knight Gilliam and his HP is barely better. Yet he still gets the job done. If you think SS is so easy wih weak ennemies I think you don't remember how much a simple 20% hit stone can completely kill your unit, because it can't move for several turns unless you can recover the stoned unit, who can't dodge on top of 30 free crit rate for the attacking unit. Sure, luna shamans don't scare me much with their 60 hit rate and 9 magic. But the sleep/berserk priests, purge/bolting sages, fast valkyries you can hardly ORKO (mainly ch17 where they're mixed with paladins and GKs not far from wyvern lord + wyvern riders and their reinforcements) with accurate magic, the vicious armor/horse slaying weapons hidden in formations you think you can ignore because your units are so gr8, the dangerous snipers (ch9 Eirika's route anyone?), the dragonzombies 2HKOing nearly everyone aside from capped HP units (even then, only a few dragon-Z have 29 attack, most have 30-31 and that's in normal since I barely played that stage on hard)...Lyon's 50-ish attack with magic (most physical units without pure water take 70-80% of their HP in 1 hit of Naglfar and Lyon's surrounded by gorgons who can gang up on any unit left in range if you didn't manage to 1 turn Lyon from the moment you can access him)...

I think people seriously underestimate TSS difficulty. It's by no means POR level of easy (seriously, past the chapters without BEXP it's so easy that you have to limit yourself on BEXP or let Marcia die in ch2 or 3 or never touch her in order to make the game any difficult in hard, even before that the only moment it's tense is the defend the fort chapters where you're surrounded and Boyd can easily fall due to bad biorythm and tempest amplifying it, ennemies barely get more than 2 AS for nearly 1/3rd of the game and even Gatrie has a chance to double with heavy weapons before he even ignores their weight, he can double several ennemies in the pirate chapter at the beginning with the steel lance that slows him down...). And so many people find POR to be such an amazing game although I could play it blindly in hard and the only hard part would be the last few chapters when ennemies suddenly start having something looking like stats and bosses having actual stats (and Ashnard if what I read is true about his broken stats and he steals the medallion).

Meanwhile TSS has several tricky ennemies or formations in several chapters past chapter 9 (chapter 10 Eirika has Pablo, whose crit rate and magic power + speed are all dangerous on top of being on a castle door for free avoid and def, chapter 11 Ephraim has anti-squishy tactics and you have to rush with Ephraim to save L'Arachel from her stupid suicide mission (even Dozla has a hard time with so many eyeballs looking bad at him, but they're magic eyeballs), chapter 12 Ephraim has a quite harsh start although it goes down when the starting point stops sending reinforcements, chapter 13 Eirika has so many cavalier reinforcement spam that you need to build a wall in order to protect you squishies, while running to the ballistas to avoid being shot, and putting Eirika just far enough from Cormag's starting point to avoid being OHKOed by a killer lance, and the boss is quite impressive if you don't use slayer weapons (he can crit kill several of your units or simply let them very low while taking little damage from non overlevelled units), then chapter 13 Ephraim has bolting on a very annoying map and hunt for the villages + stealables, chapter 14 Eirika has high crit rate 1-2 range swordmaster boss that really demands something like swordbreaker, swordslayer or a wall that can tank crits from him twice in a row and stay alive, with +30/40 avoid from throne on top of his speed and (maybe) luck. Ephraim has a boss that can OHKO your mages and is just a better version of Eirika's chapter 13 boss, but with long range staves and co.

Chapter 15 has Valter with a dangerous spear and fili shield, you need high crit evade or Caellach's crit shield in order to fight Valter safely, and he's still dangerous with his class that can activate pierce, his middling speed and good attack. Ch 16 has long range magic and groups of promoted ennemies who don't loose much AS with steel weapons (except warriors because steel axe is 15 Wt, I think none of them loose any AS), treasures, thieves to stop from stealing your treasures, ch 17 has civilians, fimbulvetr sage crossing the bridge when it's down, wyverns, brave weapon hero reinforcement alongside normal reinforcements, ch 18 has stone spam, eggs to kill on differents heights, ch 19 has darkness, snipers in top right corner with warriors, a useless Manfred who can't tke a hit to defend and low level unpromoted guards on the neutral side who barely slow the ennemies, and treasures to steal with thieves to intercept. It also has a postgame mode which has decent moments and allows you to do something after you completed the story rather than Final Fantasy IV DS save before boss and then just New game + but nothing after you beat the boss, can't even save after completing the game.

TSS is worth more than most people here advertise it for. And the story is decent and Lyon's a good bad guy with the moments when he's himself and tells the reasons for him to unleash the demon king and the moments when the DK is just being a dick pretending Lyon is still there while he's just playing like he is. I've seen much worse (especially with Conquest even though I didn't play much past chapter 22 or 23, one chapter after all the PCs are available) and my first blind run was very enjoyable, unlike POR and Conquest for different reasons.

Why is Duessel better than Xander? Because no debuff BS (inevitable end if I've read right) and poison strike spamming exist in TSS. When you look at the ennemies' main parameters you know what to expect and can build your tactics based on secured data, meanwhile with all the variables in CQ, there are so many things that can go wrong, so much more things to check that it's just a waste of time, attention and annoying to try and predict what can happen on the EP. Given how many ennemies there are you would expect this to be an EP centered game, but due to overcomplication of mechanics and of the data to take into count, you're better off simply doing your best to PP it because it makes overcomplicated things less relevant. Too flashy for its own good.

I don't see the point of this comparison. At all. You're comparing characters from two games that are night and day. Also, a base level Seth can put in work in Sacred Stones's endgame. Sacred Stones enemies are that bad. Anyway, Duessel's hurt by his class - Great Knight is just not a good class in Sacred Stones. It has only 6 move despite being mounted. This, in essence, reduces him to a foot unit that takes worse movement penalties. 

Edited by Shadow Mir

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10 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

But [Camilla]'s already promoted. If you use her, she steals exp from your growth units who need it to be even relevant at all.

Nope. You just lost all credibility in two sentences.

Effie is bulkier than you seem to think (thanks to the tools you have on hand), and Niles is actually perfectly usable on a casual run (and is great against the ninja rape zones). If you're dying to enemies Attack Stancing you, use Guard Stance. Etc., etc., etc. I pity the poor person who actually decides to do a line-by-line takedown of this...

Oh yeah... YOU CAN'T GAME OVER IN C1 PHOENIX MODE. Normally, I wouldn't attack hyperbole, but the rest irritated me to the point where that line just grated.

Actually, your second post is just as ridiculous. Duessel, worse than Gilliam? In what world? The world of grinding Gilliam to level 20 in the Tower of Valni?

...I might argue that Ephraim route Duessel is better than Xander, but... the crux of the argument would be availability, not their respective combat. And even then, it'd be dubious, because Xander's around for more chapters despite being less available percentage-wise. Also, Xander has much better Mov...

5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, a base level Seth can put in work in Sacred Stones's endgame. Sacred Stones enemies are that bad.

I see this as more "Seth is go(o)d" than "SS enemies are bad", but either way. 👍

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18 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Look, most Faceless have 11-12 def from chapter 7 onwards in HARD, 24+ HP, 9-ish speed and nearly as much res as def, so you can't even burst them with a magic unit (reclassed Corrin/Felicia). Your own tanks have less HP than any ennemy on the map except Arthur who badly wants a bronze weapon to have actual accuracy and 0% crit chance against him.

Taken from the map itself, on Lunatic difficulty:

1x Boss faceless with 31HP/11STR/13DEF/8RES and Wary Fighter

2x paired faceless with 25HP/11STR/11SPD/10DEF/9RES (+2 through PU, on their own there are the same as the solo ones)

13x solo faceless with 25HP/9STR/9SPD/8DEF/7RES

A Lv. 10 +STR/-LCK Corrin has 7 Mag, with Dragonstone you deal 14/13/12 dmg. A +MAG/-LCK Corrin has 12 MAG, raising that to 19/18/17.

Effie has more STR/DEF than Arthur (13/14 to 10/6), the latter having +6HP of which 5 are due to HP+5. Neither have any business doubling.

18 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Camilla has stats your best units would get by level 18-20 or even after promotion. But she's already promoted. If you use her, she steals exp from your growth units who need it to be even relevant at all. If you don't let her get kills, she will become irrelevant once she can finally gain decent exp per kill.

Exp gains are not a problem in Fates. Also the classic anti Jagen/(Jeigan?) argument but this time it falls even shorter because Camillas stats grow like fucking weed.

The Beruka v Arthur comparison makes little sense and is partially wrong. Comparing them at base, Beruka has +1STR/+5SKL/+1SPD/+5DEF7+3RES. Arthur has a total of 35% SPD growth compared to Berukas 30% Spd growth, so the class makes the difference. In their base classes, without any shenanigans, Arthur will end up with +16HP/+10STR/-2SKL/+4SPD/-10DEF7-7RES at 20/20.

18 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Xander has OP sword, but I'd prefer him having a lance in order to not be laughed at by ninjas

It´s called a Javelin. He won´t double Ninjas without investment anyway.

As for Steel and Silver weapons... why not use them? The former only reduces your speed by what -3? so that´s a clear indicator for using AS or a buff unit that doesn´t care about being doubled. And that you shouldn´t spam Silver weapons like in every other damn game and use them for enemies you can´t deal with otherwise seems evident.

As for the weapons you get in MyCastle, Ninjas in my game still tremble from remembering the Berserker Axe (as one example).

Quote

Hard is for people who want non poop-made ennemies and actual ennemy density, not for masochists who like to play puzzle in a tactical RPG

Ignoring the fact that IS made it very clear that Conquest is for players who want a challenge and think about what they are doing. 

Quote

(and an RPG should always let you do things in the way you want, not trying to force you into doing specific things to cheese it, that is for LTC/speedrunning, not for casual play).

No. It´s a strategy game, it has to impose limits on the player, like any other game belonging to any defined category, because otherwise it´s a fucking sandbox. If you want a game that allows you to do whatever you want to, look no further than Minecraft. 

18 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

That's it, what are your thoughts?

You should 1) either not play the game because you clearly can´t enjoy it or 2) you should stop trying to come up with nonsense why Conquest is bad and spend more time playing it, because that may yield better results for you than failing to make arguments where there are none to be had.

Edited by Imuabicus

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12 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I think people seriously underestimate TSS difficulty. It's by no means POR level of easy

It's not PoR levels of easy. It's even easier.

6 hours ago, Seafarer said:

I see this as more "Seth is go(o)d" than "SS enemies are bad", but either way. 👍

That's another way to see it. In any instance, the fact that endgame enemies are that weak is rather damning.

17 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

That's it, what are your thoughts?

You should give up on making bullshit arguments and actually play the game instead of posting nonsense "arguments" like this one:

17 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

But she's already promoted. If you use her, she steals exp from your growth units who need it to be even relevant at all.

Especially considering the fact that you later turn around and sing the praises of Duessel, who comes in at level 8 promoted (10 on Eirika route).

Edited by Shadow Mir

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Because of some stuff, I hadn´t mentioned have a second post.

For the stat comparison in chapter 7:

Only Arthur has more HP than the Faceles due to HP+5. No new unit in chapter 7 of Conquest has less STR than the Faceless, with Silas tying the PU-Faceless and the Boss at 11STR. All new units in Chapter 7 have less SPD than the Faceless. All new units have more DEF than solo Faceless, with Arthur having -1 on PU-Faceless and Silas having equal Defence. The Boss surpasses every new unit except Effie in DEF, his being 13 versus hers being 14.

A reclassed Felicia or Corrin would not have access to magic weapons. Assuming some trickery we deal with E-Rank tomes, allowing us Fire (3MT), Ember (1MT) and Disrupting Gale (4MT, +3SPD on Attack). A reclassed Lv. 5 Felicia – assuming Strategist with Lv. 5 being the most logical choice in my eyes (granting Live to Serve) – has ~13MAG and 11SPD dealing damage as follows: with Fire 9/8/7, with Ember 7/6/5 with DG 20/9/8. None of this takes Attack Stance or Guard Stance or Tonics into account.

As for the Beruka v Arthur comparison, for one I failed to mention that Beruka is of course a Wyvern Rider/Lord so she has more Mov than Arthur.

Secondly Beruka/Arthur are next to interchangeable units. Use this here: https://zekareisoujin.github.io/FEFatesStatCalc/ and check their stats in WL and Berserker respectively. Arthur will always edge out with more HP/STR and Beruka will have a significant lead in LCK.

As for the rest of your unit evaluations regarding Effie, Niles & Kaze.

In her starting chapter Effie receives 5/14/12 damage from enemies whilst dealing 12/10/7 damage. This does not take AS/GS into account. Considering we are talking about chapter 7 with its3 major chokepoints, there is no reason to assume any of your units should take more than 1 round of combat a turn or the player not using Elise PS and possibly Servant 1 Aura. Effies SPD is barely high enough to not be doubled should you care by virtue of Tonics/PU and from the middle stages of the game up to lategame she will not have to worry about damage.

As for Niles. Name a more broken Skill than Capture. Niles is good enough to deal with most flying enemies – enemies that you specifically seem to have a problem with in Chapter 10. Other than that, he is slightly unreliable chip damage, one of the few units capable of safely killing or damaging enemy mages and is also the only user of Locktouch until after chapter 11. And his promotions offer him some options on what to do with is life.

As for Kaze. He kills Mages, he steals shit, he´s accurate, he chunks enemies thanks to Poison Strike, he debuffs. He´s Conquest equivalent of a Swiss Knife. If he had Charlottes STR growth he would be broken beyond belief.

19 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

And add to that the fact the ennemies also use attack or guard stance to inflate their damage or prevent you from ORKOing them, and that's what I call shitty game balance.

If an enemy using GS surprises you it´s solely on you. The game gives you 100% information on what´s happening on the screen. As for enemy AS, yeah that can be confusing at first but that´s why we also can use GS.

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2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Because of some stuff, I hadn´t mentioned have a second post.

For the stat comparison in chapter 7:

Only Arthur has more HP than the Faceles due to HP+5. No new unit in chapter 7 of Conquest has less STR than the Faceless, with Silas tying the PU-Faceless and the Boss at 11STR. All new units in Chapter 7 have less SPD than the Faceless. All new units have more DEF than solo Faceless, with Arthur having -1 on PU-Faceless and Silas having equal Defence. The Boss surpasses every new unit except Effie in DEF, his being 13 versus hers being 14.

A reclassed Felicia or Corrin would not have access to magic weapons. Assuming some trickery we deal with E-Rank tomes, allowing us Fire (3MT), Ember (1MT) and Disrupting Gale (4MT, +3SPD on Attack). A reclassed Lv. 5 Felicia – assuming Strategist with Lv. 5 being the most logical choice in my eyes (granting Live to Serve) – has ~13MAG and 11SPD dealing damage as follows: with Fire 9/8/7, with Ember 7/6/5 with DG 20/9/8. None of this takes Attack Stance or Guard Stance or Tonics into account.

As for the Beruka v Arthur comparison, for one I failed to mention that Beruka is of course a Wyvern Rider/Lord so she has more Mov than Arthur.

Secondly Beruka/Arthur are next to interchangeable units. Use this here: https://zekareisoujin.github.io/FEFatesStatCalc/ and check their stats in WL and Berserker respectively. Arthur will always edge out with more HP/STR and Beruka will have a significant lead in LCK.

My point was that Beruka would be really appreciated if she didn't come underlevelled in a hard enough chapter, short of killing even the weakest ennemies and if my memory doesn't fail she's only D rank in axes, the same rank as base Arthur 3 chapters earlier. If she had time to grow and help your team in earlier chapters, she wouldn't be forgotten so often by so many players just because Camilla shows up at the exact same turn as her and massively better.

As for the rest of your unit evaluations regarding Effie, Niles & Kaze.

In her starting chapter Effie receives 5/14/12 damage from enemies whilst dealing 12/10/7 damage. This does not take AS/GS into account. Considering we are talking about chapter 7 with its3 major chokepoints, there is no reason to assume any of your units should take more than 1 round of combat a turn or the player not using Elise PS and possibly Servant 1 Aura. Effies SPD is barely high enough to not be doubled should you care by virtue of Tonics/PU and from the middle stages of the game up to lategame she will not have to worry about damage.

Effie's problem is that, unlike Benny, her HP is barely average, on top of having little more speed than him before promotion (not any significant speed lead since none can double and Benny can allow himself to be doubled because his res and HP are good on top of his def and he's equipped with defensive formation or whatever the knight lv 10 skill is called, letting him gain 3 damage reduction whenever he's on terrain with bonus, which is nice for him since there's terrain in a good number of maps after his joining, while Effie's terrain is very limited before he joins and she's still outclassed by him in anything a knight should do, like hitting things without OHKOing them since you want other units to gain exp from the ennemies they weaken, and the hitting part is quite important seeing how much of an accuracy lead he has over her, tanking several damage sources, chokepoints holding, he can do these very well at base, has C base lance rank for slayer weapons and steel, since he will never double as a knight anyway and he can still hit with steel unlike many CQ units with anything other than dagger/sword).

Effie helps in early, but she's better benched for me. Literally any tanky unit does this better than her. And any actually fast unit has less problems getting to double (she has 3 personal base speed, that means as a ninja she would have 10 speed at level 6, that's even less than Saizo 1 level higher and he's not particularly fast). Better put Niles in Redemptor and watch him annihilate earlygame.

As for Niles. Name a more broken Skill than Capture. Niles is good enough to deal with most flying enemies – enemies that you specifically seem to have a problem with in Chapter 10. Other than that, he is slightly unreliable chip damage, one of the few units capable of safely killing or damaging enemy mages and is also the only user of Locktouch until after chapter 11. And his promotions offer him some options on what to do with is life.

I never said Niles is bad, he is not bad he's just not very accurate with a bow, not very strong and doesn't gain any damaging skill before vengeance, a lv5 sorceror skill that got nerfed from Awakening and requires to take damage in order to deal more. And Niles can't shoot every one of the pegasi while not being in range of the other ennemies running through the dried river. He dies pretty fast against physical hits too.

As for Kaze. He kills Mages, he steals shit, he´s accurate, he chunks enemies thanks to Poison Strike, he debuffs. He´s Conquest equivalent of a Swiss Knife. If he had Charlottes STR growth he would be broken beyond belief.

Charlotte's equivalent as a ninja exists, she's called Kagero, has actual res instead of HP without any other defensive stat and she can actually hit since she wields good weapons. Too bad she's not the ninja of Conquest instead of fail Kaze who's just a mage killer and on every other aspect he's barely better than ennemy ninjas. He doesn't pop as a master ninja like you can see them pop out of nowhere as soon as chapter 11 in Rev.

If an enemy using GS surprises you it´s solely on you. The game gives you 100% information on what´s happening on the screen. As for enemy AS, yeah that can be confusing at first but that´s why we also can use GS.

Didn't say they surprise me, they're just annoying to deal with, since either they double most of your units with about 18-19 Mt as soon as chapter 9 (samurais) or they are hard to ORKO and if you fail you get def sealed (don't remember if there's a duo of seal def spear fighters in ch9, although I know I've fought a few quite early in the game and that -6 def is seriously game breaking especially with archers waiting nearby to have a shot at the weakened unit). Attack stances feel completely randomly chosen by the AI and it's hard to guess what ennemy will attack first, who will be front and who will be back up. That's why I call the game PP Emblem, since if you expect to play this one on EP you'll just get trainrecked and truck-san will send you in another world, hopefully with swords and magic. I like some parts of Fates, hence why I still play it from time to time, like the big SANDBOX that is skill buying, building your units, but honestly I think they went too far on the strategical/tactical aspect to the point where it feels like if you don't follow LTC strats you just get stomped for no satisfying reason.

I'd like to be able to turtle, take more turns and take all the exp per map instead of being pushed into cheesing tactics because of how annoying the game mechanics are. Because that's how I like to play, and I hate when someone forces me to play in a way I don't like to if I don't want to suffer and loose my hair trying to play the way I like. Radiant Dawn was unbalanced, but still enjoyable from part 2 chapter 2 onwards. Because the game mechanics were satisfying, the diversity was great and you could play the game in many different ways. There were ways to make up for bad things (boss abuse allowed Laguz to increase weapon rank and gain experience at low risk in human form when the circumstances allowed them to do it, as well as made up for poor availability, just like BEXP).

I feel like Conquest should have BEXP or a similar mechanic in order to make up for very low overlevelled experience (and their thought on what overlevelled means, since your units start overlevelled for their base stats to be any decent except the royals, I think CQ units should have similar levels to BR units without changing their stats so they could actually grow fast enough to be more than the Dawn Brigade Forever, so they could actually hope to catch up to royals, just like Jill catches up to Haar and has better endgame performance than him although she needs much more time and investment to get there, while CQ has very few units like that, even Mozu with her very high growths still has shitty HP and middling attack to make up for how fast and accurate she is). Also most FE games I've played feature decent HP pools for PCs, but Fates doesn't, making the other problems even worse than they already are. If you take 14 damage while having 29 HP, you survive 2 hits. If you take 14 damage while having 25 HP, you survive 1 hit. Same defence, same ennemy attack, massive performance difference. That's the difference between Fates and the FEs I find more satisfying to PLAY even if on paper Fates seems better.

As for Camilla, sure she has high growths, but if she takes 1 level up with the amount of exp that would allow someone else to get 3-4 levels and become semi-independent while 1 level doesn't let Camilla do much more, then I prefer making the other unit semi-independent so that I can rely on 2 units instead of 1. And I'm sad of the treatment of form changers, even if there are good ideas, the execution is poor (not doubling without tonics and loosing def and attack vs maybe being doubled by fasties without tonics but gaining def, it would be great in a game where your stats can't magically decrease due to game mechanics, it's not when these very edgy stats can get blown out of their thresholds with 1 dagger or 1 seal applying because you missed an 89% hit kill and got debuffed because accuracy formula sucks since Awakening if not since NDS remakes with nerfed skill and 1 more point of speed to double made ennemies have generally more speed than ever before, at least except in Radiant Dawn normal and hard where speed thresholds are basically cap the thing or you're screwed because knights have as much speed as if they were mercenaries; and single RNG hit rate).

 

Edited by mangasdeouf
Better wording, writing, more spacing

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If she had time to grow and help your team in earlier chapters, she wouldn't be forgotten so often by so many players just because Camilla shows up at the exact same turn as her and massively better.

Beruka can fly, so she doesn't need inflated stats to be useful. If many people forget her it's because they're trying to compare her directly to Camilla which is a mistake.

Quote

As for Camilla, sure she has high growths, but if she takes 1 level up with the amount of exp that would allow someone else to get 3-4 levels and become semi-independent while 1 level doesn't let Camilla do much more, then I prefer making the other unit semi-independent so that I can rely on 2 units instead of 1.

You can still use Camilla and dump experience on other units. It might not be possible to milk all of the experience in a map that way, but it's not necessary to do that even if you want a full team.

Anyway, this reads as personal grievances that you have with the game rather than any real issue that the game might have.

Quote

Look at Radiant Dawn part 3: the GMs all have a role they can play well enough from the get go. Gatrie is a General, Effie is a knight. Gatrie can take several hits of very powerful ennemies at base, Effie can take 2 hits and die at base. Gatrie's speed is busted to the point he can double some ennemies, while Effie's 55% spd growth allows to get to an average of...yeah, 12.7 speed at level 20, which is lower than Keaton's level 15 base speed and he's not particularly fast. Fast knight you said? Actually Effie can get doubled quite a lot and even take damage from the ennemies who double her, unlike Gilliam who can gain 1 point of speed and sit there for the whole game and not care at all since it's all he needs to break the speed threshold to not get doubled by any axeman in the early game while his def slowly grows into the amazing steel wall it becomes. Effie's speed lets her get doubled, Effie's def lets her get hurt (and not by paper balls, but rather by trucks of overstatted ennemies overloaded with skills giving them the edge on your already shitty units with non OP skills yet and who barely ever double anything aside from Niles who can't hurt anything but mages and pegasi, barely better than Kaze who can only hurt mages). And add to that the fact the ennemies also use attack or guard stance to inflate their damage or prevent you from ORKOing them, and that's what I call shitty game balance.

I'll use this as an example. You think that it's a bad idea for units to have specialized roles. I would personally use FE7 and FE8 as examples of poor unit design because every unit has effectively the same role. They all want to be able to fight as many enemies as possible at 1-2 range. The units that do it better are generall the ones that have more movement.

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6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

My point was that Beruka would be really appreciated if she didn't come underlevelled in a hard enough chapter, short of killing even the weakest ennemies and if my memory doesn't fail she's only D rank in axes, the same rank as base Arthur 3 chapters earlier. If she had time to grow and help your team in earlier chapters, she wouldn't be forgotten so often by so many players just because Camilla shows up at the exact same turn as her and massively better.

Sacred Stones does the same thing, except even worse. Look at Marisa, who joins at level 5 long after Joshua has had a head start, and Gerik comes either in the same chapter or right after. Why the hell would I use her over the other two???

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

I feel like Conquest should have BEXP or a similar mechanic in order to make up for very low overlevelled experience (and their thought on what overlevelled means, since your units start overlevelled for their base stats to be any decent except the royals,

Honestly, I think BEXP wouldn't be that much of a solution, if Path of Radiance is any indication.

7 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Charlotte's equivalent as a ninja exists, she's called Kagero, has actual res instead of HP without any other defensive stat and she can actually hit since she wields good weapons. Too bad she's not the ninja of Conquest instead of fail Kaze who's just a mage killer and on every other aspect he's barely better than ennemy ninjas. He doesn't pop as a master ninja like you can see them pop out of nowhere as soon as chapter 11 in Rev.

She's also rather inaccurate despite this - how powerful you are is meaningless if you miss.

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

She's also rather inaccurate despite this - how powerful you are is meaningless if you miss.

This jumped off the page as wrong to me so I went and looked it up.

Kagero with an Iron Shuriken has about the same accuracy as Ryoma with Raijinto*, and nobody complains about his accuracy. And if she needs more accuracy she can switch to bronze, or dual when that gets her WTA.

*for example: at Level 20/15, Swordmaster Ryoma has +3 skl and +11 luck compared to Master Ninja Kagero which works out to +10 hit, but she gets +5 from class and another +5 from iron shuriken vs raijinto, so they're dead even

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On 7/24/2020 at 7:06 AM, Seafarer said:

Oh yeah... YOU CAN'T GAME OVER IN C1 PHOENIX MODE. Normally, I wouldn't attack hyperbole, but the rest irritated me to the point where that line just grated.

Not even if Corrin dies?

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3 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Not even if Corrin dies?

I just checked this, Corrin kinda just respawns when you suicide on Xander.

As for @mangasdeouf:

I´m not sure I follow your comparisons anymore. Effie joins in chapter 7, Benny in chapter 13. They have the same class so arguing skills is useless. Since Effie will probably see combat for at least 6 chapters she´s sure to gain another weapon rank. By the time Effie hits Bennys level (Lv. 15) she has                        -3HP/+5STR/-2SKL/+4SPD/-2DEF/-3RES. As for accuracy problems… eh? He ends up with about +5SKL which is about +7.5 Hit whereas Effie gains I think +3.5 Hit from her +7LCK lead so Benny wins with a +4Hit. Effie CAN be brought to 1HKO thresholds – that usually involves either tonics, PU or specific weaponry.

Yes. I mentioned all of that. I don´t know why anyone would rely on proccskills at the very least in Fates. They are nice to have because when they activate, they are exactly that – nice, but they are also unreliable (for the most part). The dried river? So, a passive approach to chapter 10 then, though the Pegasi tend to be quite a bit ahead of enemies, even if the river is dried no?

Again, not sure where the comparison on Charlotte v Kagero came about considering it was about Kazes STR stat and growth. Just a Mage Killer? Kaze has higher HP/RES than Kagero, the only thing she bests him in is strength but Kaze also has Kageros base SPD at Lv. 3 my guy, at level 10 he´s 5 points ahead a trend that will keep going till he´s maxed. That´s a lot of time spent doubling enemies. They also – almost coincidentally - use the same weapons. As for Kaze v regular MN can I point you to the fact, while he has 2 less STR than them due to modifiers he also has 3 more SPD, so he is but a tonic away from doubling THE FASTEST ENEMIES IN THE GAME. Also, yeah MN in chapter 11 of REV, the epitomy of game balance.

As for your final three paragraphs. WTF. If you want to play slow play slow. There´s a few chapters that force you to be fast/efficient (Chapter 10/12) some that give you a good reason to be fast (Chapter 8/16 for example). If you don´t like Seal Skills, then just wait the 6 turns? Yeah Conquest is a lot easier when played proactively – because it gives you great control over your units and how they are kitted out. The HP pools are the way they are because of AS and GS because otherwise they wouldn´t work. As for catch up to royals, that is what happens. Ever heard about how Camilla seemingly falls off in the lategame? That´s because enemies and allies start scaling up to her. Conquest gives you everything you need to play how you like with certain limitations to force you to think how you go about it. How you implement your playstyle depends on your "creativity" more than anything else.

Edited by Imuabicus

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3 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Kaze has higher HP/RES than Kagero, the only thing she bests him in is strength but Kaze also has Kageros base SPD at Lv. 3

Really?! Do you honestly think that strength is the one thing that Kagero has better than Kaze? You must be playing the game with a broken screen. 😎

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On 7/23/2020 at 12:22 PM, mangasdeouf said:

 

I know what you'll say: "But if you know how to play the damn game, you know can kill them without being sealed, thresholds" nanani nanana. I don't think having to rely on insane level ups for Corrin in the first 6-7 chapters of the game is a good way to balance a game, neither is the fact that all your units need several hundreds of gold worth of TEMPORARY stat boosters just to not die in 1 attack stance +1 normal attack at the beginning of the game.

Use skills...you can easily give Corrin +7-8 Damage Reduction with lilypoise+demoiselle/gentilholme+servant's personal (before including the +4 defense from Dragon Stone) from chapter 6 onward, and get someone a C support w/ Corrin and you can replace the servants personal with Supportive to get +7DR from the same kinda boosts on whomever you want. Even without Guard Stance you can tank anything you need without wasting money on tonics or pairing units in the early game, even on Lunatic as long as you utilize those kind of buffs.

 

On 7/23/2020 at 12:22 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Actually Effie can get doubled quite a lot and even take damage from the ennemies who double her, unlike Gilliam who can gain 1 point of speed and sit there for the whole game and not care at all since it's all he needs to break the speed threshold to not get doubled by any axeman in the early game while his def slowly grows into the amazing steel wall it becomes. Effie's speed lets her get doubled, Effie's def lets her get hurt (and not by paper balls, but rather by trucks of overstatted ennemies overloaded with skills giving them the edge on your already shitty units with non OP skills yet and who barely ever double anything aside from Niles who can't hurt anything but mages and pegasi, barely better than Kaze who can only hurt mages). And add to that the fact the ennemies also use attack or guard stance to inflate their damage or prevent you from ORKOing them, and that's what I call shitty game balance.

Effie's real value is her ludicrous single attack damage, which makes her the best attack stance partner until/unless you start crit hunting with a Berserker. Sure she can tank too, especially when you remember about her extra 3 damage reduction while on terrain, and she can easily take advantage of the +7 DR from support skills as described above, you can make her tank, as long as you set it up. Her speed could use some help, but could be worse, if you promote to GK she hits the Xander base speed at promotion, and when she hits his base level she should be +2 on his base, which should keep a fair number of enemies from doubling her, and anything you do to try and fix his speed you could do to fix her speed. As long as she is getting the kinda xp to be a main team member she should be fine.

 

On 7/23/2020 at 12:22 PM, mangasdeouf said:

 

Camilla has stats your best units would get by level 18-20 or even after promotion. But she's already promoted. If you use her, she steals exp from your growth units who need it to be even relevant at all. If you don't let her get kills, she will become irrelevant once she can finally gain decent exp per kill. Unlike Seth, she's vulnerable to 25% of the ennemy units in the game since they love spamming bow wielders to put their arrows far in your butt. And they move in groups so she can't even kill the 1 archer in the formation and call it a day, because there's still 1 or even 2 of them around.

Seeing as Camilla's internal level makes her gain experience like a level 16 unit, having the stats of a level 18-20 unit (which is debatable) is still really good from an experience gain perspective.

 

On 7/24/2020 at 10:29 AM, mangasdeouf said:

 

My point was that Beruka would be really appreciated if she didn't come underlevelled in a hard enough chapter, short of killing even the weakest ennemies and if my memory doesn't fail she's only D rank in axes, the same rank as base Arthur 3 chapters earlier. If she had time to grow and help your team in earlier chapters, she wouldn't be forgotten so often by so many players just because Camilla shows up at the exact same turn as her and massively better.

Camilla gets used for her broken base stats, Beruka for the amazing utility of the Wyvern Lord class. Camilla's stats are too good to waste her action on a tactical lunge that helps the army, or defense rally to bolster defenses, or carry another unit across a gap, but Beruka is just the lady for those kinda maneuvers. I find the utility offered by Wyvern Lord incredibly useful for the support it can give, and Beruka is an easy unit to slot in for that utility, and she can even easily shift to her alternate class as a Berserker without having to work on weapon rank, whether you want her to stay that way for the attack stance crit hunting, or just to grab both defense and strength rally together.

 

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On 7/26/2020 at 1:08 AM, NinjaMonkey said:

Not even if Corrin dies?

Nope. Corrin's death is only a game over in Classic mode and in C5 Casual. In Casual mode (except C5), they come back after the battle like anyone else, and in Phoenix mode they come back next turn like anyone else. This is different to Awakening, where Chrom or Robin dying is a game over in Casual mode.

In Phoenix mode, you can only game over if the map gives the enemy a victory condition that doesn't involve killing your units. This means that you can't game over in Birthright, before C10 in Conquest, or before C6 in Revelation.

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22 hours ago, Seafarer said:

Nope. Corrin's death is only a game over in Classic mode and in C5 Casual. In Casual mode (except C5), they come back after the battle like anyone else, and in Phoenix mode they come back next turn like anyone else. This is different to Awakening, where Chrom or Robin dying is a game over in Casual mode.

In Phoenix mode, you can only game over if the map gives the enemy a victory condition that doesn't involve killing your units. This means that you can't game over in Birthright, before C10 in Conquest, or before C6 in Revelation.

AFAIK, Phoenix mode is a game over if all your units die on the same turn before you get your next turn (thus they can't respawn).

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4 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

AFAIK, Phoenix mode is a game over if all your units die on the same turn before you get your next turn (thus they can't respawn).

Okay. You're wrong. Re-read what you quoted to find out how it actually works.

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On 7/25/2020 at 5:52 AM, samthedigital said:

I'll use this as an example. You think that it's a bad idea for units to have specialized roles. I would personally use FE7 and FE8 as examples of poor unit design because every unit has effectively the same role. They all want to be able to fight as many enemies as possible at 1-2 range. The units that do it better are generall the ones that have more movement.

Units having different roles is great b in conquest it feels like only have he units have useful role whilst the other half are trash.

Edited by The Exalt

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Units having different roles is great b in conquest it feels like only have he units have useful role whilst the other half are trash.

If we use the strictest definition of the word useful then this is true, but it's also true of every other game in the series. It's similar if we take a loose interpretation of the word.

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