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Three Houses has now been out for one year! How have your opinions on it changed since release?


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2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Pacing with the war is an issue that exists in all routes. I mean, look how quickly it took Dimitri to liberate Faerghus after Gronder. A single chapter. Then there's how quickly it was to take down the Empire after you cross into their territory. After Fort Merceus, it's just Enbarr straight from there in the two chapter back to back conquest.

 We have to remember that unlike other FE games, that has the war spanning 15-20 chapters, 3H has the war spanning 10 chapters at best. 

That is true. But Cornelia was likely never a particularly hard nut to crack. She holds the capitol but to the west are lords who are only begrudgingly loyal and to the east are regions that are fiercely pro Dimitri. The Empire does fall a little too quickly after taking the battle to their soil but you've been fighting the Empire the entire second route at that point

The war has 10 chapters which is decent enough if all those 10 chapters could be spend on the Empire. But in Crimson Flower you get fewer then 10 chapters and those all need to be split between the factions. 2 for the Alliance, 2 for the Kingdom and 2 for the Church which just reflects poorly on all three factions. The church for all its power doesn't have the landmass that real countries do so for them it can be excused, but it really should take longer than 2 chapters to conquer whole nations. 

8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Of course Edelgard would have the least problems in her route. Her route has Byleth with her. Remember that in non-CF routes, Byleth opposes her, and it's only because of Byleth that Edelgard is defeated. Here, Byleth is with her, which is why Edelgard has little issue in her battles. Or how in that route, the group aren't scattered to the wind, but rather they all stick together.

I think that Crimson Flower actually lends itself to the fiercest fighting. In the other routes the Knights of Seiros are scattered, the Alliance is impotent and the Kingdom has been toppled. Edelgard has complete millitary dominance and indeed only loses because of Byleth. But in Crimson Flower the Kingdom doesn't fall and rather than getting scattered the Knights of Seiros find shelter in the Kingdom. Dimitri and Rhea would have far more men and resources to oppose Edelgard with. That Edelgard's enemies are more united and more powerful should make things far harder for her. 

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1 minute ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That is true. But Cornelia was likely never a particularly hard nut to crack. She holds the capitol but to the west are lords who are only begrudgingly loyal and to the east are regions that are fiercely pro Dimitri. The Empire does fall a little too quickly after taking the battle to their soil but you've been fighting the Empire the entire second route at that point

The war has 10 chapters which is decent enough if all those 10 chapters could be spend on the Empire. But in Crimson Flower you get fewer then 10 chapters and those all need to be split between the factions. 2 for the Alliance, 2 for the Kingdom and 2 for the Church which just reflects poorly on all three factions. The church for all its power doesn't have the landmass that real countries do so for them it can be excused, but it really should take longer than 2 chapters to conquer whole nations. 

You can "explain" the reasons, but those very same "reasons" are also all able to be applied onto CF as well. It's not just in one route. Explanations are given in every route, and that is why it's so quick and easy. 

But those non-CF routes DOESN'T spend all those 10 chapters in the Empire. And the worst part is, ALL those chapters are basically the exact same type of run.

1) Free Garreg Mach from bandits.

2) Defend Garreg Mach from Randolph. 

3) Go to Aillel, the Valley of Torment, for reinforcements.

4) Go to Bridge of Myrrdin.

5) Gronder.

6) Fort Merceus.

7) Enbarr.

There's nothing unique about it. They all do the exact same thing. 

5 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think that Crimson Flower actually lends itself to the fiercest fighting. In the other routes the Knights of Seiros are scattered, the Alliance is impotent and the Kingdom has been toppled. Edelgard has complete millitary dominance and indeed only loses because of Byleth. But in Crimson Flower the Kingdom doesn't fall and rather than getting scattered the Knights of Seiros find shelter in the Kingdom. Dimitri and Rhea would have far more men and resources to oppose Edelgard with. That Edelgard's enemies are more united and more powerful should make things far harder for her. 

Actually, the opposite. 

There's a stalemate between the Empire and Kingdom, which is actually a very good thing that leads to fewer casualties. 

The Alliance has been left alone for five whole years. Claude even admits that the Alliance is mostly unscathed.

In non-CF routes, it's been made clear that the Alliance is fractured with violent discord being spread, and the Kingdom is basically in the midst of a civil war. 

The fighting is actually much worse in non-CF routes, but in CF, there's a deadlock where no side has made any huge moves that led to devastating results.

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Yeah CF's general skimpiness really holds it back. You didn't have an easy time with either Dimitri or Claude in their respective routes, with Byleth. The Church + a far less divided Kingdom should have been a far more significant threat, particularly if she isn't willing to use her Slitherer allies to their full potential.

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30 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You can "explain" the reasons, but those very same "reasons" are also all able to be applied onto CF as well. It's not just in one route. Explanations are given in every route, and that is why it's so quick and easy.

Oh for sure. There's always a reason. Political instability is how Edelgard manages to topple the Alliance so quickly. She marches through pro imperial Gloucester after taking the bridge. And yeah that's a sound strategy for taking on the Alliance. It takes the world building into account. But it still should take more than two chapters. It would be far more interesting if Claude engaged Edelgard as she was crossing Gloucester for instance or if there's a big battle in front of Derdriu that could end one way or the other depending on what the Gloucester knights do. And considering the missing chapters there would have been room for it if they made Crimson Flower the same length as the others. 

Besides Claude and Cornelia don't really have the same stature. Cornelia is a minor villain. For her one chapter is sufficient. Claude is one of the three stars. Regardless of the explanations as to why he falls quickly he should have lasted longer than he did. 

30 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

But those non-CF routes DOESN'T spend all those 10 chapters in the Empire. And the worst part is, ALL those chapters are basically the exact same type of run.

1) Free Garreg Mach from bandits.

2) Defend Garreg Mach from Randolph. 

3) Go to Aillel, the Valley of Torment, for reinforcements.

4) Go to Bridge of Myrrdin.

5) Gronder.

6) Fort Merceus.

7) Enbarr.

That's one big weakness and a reason I appreciate Crimson Flower. It doesn't follow the same routine as the other routes do. Small difference aside they do feel the same. But on this particular topic its still primarily one faction you're facing the entire time. Aside from the starting bandits its always the empire, their puppets or their Slitherer partners. It gives you one enemy for the entire route and the amount of time fighting them makes them feel like a toughter enemy then two faction that seem to collapse the moment Edelgard sneezes on them. 

30 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

 

There's a stalemate between the Empire and Kingdom, which is actually a very good thing that leads to fewer casualties. 

The Alliance has been left alone for five whole years. Claude even admits that the Alliance is mostly unscathed.

That's possible. Its possible that those five years in Crimson Flowers have been spend with skirmishes or just eyeing the opposing force, and that's why the borders haven't changed much. However its also possible the borders haven't changed much because both sides have been tossing armies at each other for five years without any success. Stalemates don't need to mean that the conflict isn't very severe or doesn't have intense action. The Three Kingdoms that Fodlan is probably based on spend most of their wars with completely static borders and it was still a very bloody affair, with each of the nations tossing armies of thousands into the meat grinder without getting anything done. Things like Sothis narration or Dorothea's sullen attitude does suggest a certain amount of blood has been spilled even if the borders haven't changed. It might be more that there's a deadlock because neither side made a successful huge move rather than them not having made such moves at all. 

I guess it depends on exactly what happens. The battle between the eastern Fearghus lords and the Dukedom might have been more bloody if everyone was just twiddling their thumbs for five years during crimson flower. But if they didn't then the combined armies of the Church and Kingdom should put things on a far larger scale then a civil war in Fearghus . Acheron aside the Alliance seems to bicker more than fight it out. Even gloucester, the worst of the worst seems more interested in just not pissing off Edelgard rather than playing games to topple Riegan. There's a lot of concern in Verdant Wind of Gloucester being forced to oppose them if they play their cards wrong but this is resolved. We don't hear much of anti and pro imperial lords mustering forces to fight each other. At worst Gloucester just lets Edelgard march trough his lands or sends Lorenz to the bridge. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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It generally doesn't take very long to conquer an enemy territory in Fire Emblem. In FE6, conquering Bern is 2 maps if you exclude the gaiden. In FE8 Ephraim, Grado is 3. In FE9, Daein is 4. In non-CF, Adrestia is either 4 to 5 depending on route. CF having conquests of 2 and 3 maps respectively doesn't feel terribly out of line, especially since there are a variety of reasons that the Alliance, in particular, should not have been a long fight (both sides want to minimize conflict, Edelgard having support from Gloucester).

I like that I can easily recall the narrative purpose of each map in Three Houses. I wouldn't precisely object to adding one or two more, but it's within bounds I consider reasonable, and adding significantly more would just lead to it feeling bloated, the way Part 3 in Radiant Dawn does IMHO. (I love RD, I'm not trying to throw shade.)

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2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Oh for sure. There's always a reason. Political instability is how Edelgard manages to topple the Alliance so quickly. She marches through pro imperial Gloucester after taking the bridge. And yeah that's a sound strategy for taking on the Alliance. It takes the world building into account. But it still should take more than two chapters. It would be far more interesting if Claude engaged Edelgard as she was crossing Gloucester for instance or if there's a big battle in front of Derdriu that could end one way or the other depending on what the Gloucester knights do. And considering the missing chapters there would have been room for it if they made Crimson Flower the same length as the others. 

Besides Claude and Cornelia don't really have the same stature. Cornelia is a minor villain. For her one chapter is sufficient. Claude is one of the three stars. Regardless of the explanations as to why he falls quickly he should have lasted longer than he did. 

You do realize how the other routes treat the other stars, right?

Rhea is non-existent in AM, and exposition bot in SS/VW.

Claude vanishes in SS, and hardly does anything in AM (made it into a meme even).

Dimitri dies in SS/VW, and in the former comes as a ghost. 

Despite how SS has this tragedy of former student turning for, Edelgard does little beyond that one reunion fight scene, as she doesn't show up until you fight her in Enbarr. She plays no real role other than being a foe. 

Like, the non-CF routes completely undermines and tosses away one or more of the stars like they don't matter.

CF at least treats the other lords with more respect and have a bit more effort into them to show something. Minor it might seem, compare it to the other routes, and minor becomes major.

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That's one big weakness and a reason I appreciate Crimson Flower. It doesn't follow the same routine as the other routes do. Small difference aside they do feel the same. But on this particular topic its still primarily one faction you're facing the entire time. Aside from the starting bandits its always the empire, their puppets or their Slitherer partners. It gives you one enemy for the entire route and the amount of time fighting them makes them feel like a toughter enemy then two faction that seem to collapse the moment Edelgard sneezes on them.

The problem there is that it needs you to undermine the other factions. 

Look at AM, where the Alliance has Claude hardly do anything, but be marked as a traitor by Faerghus, need to be taken down, then randomly needs help and you go help them.

Or VW, where Dimitri is known to be dead, then suddenly is alive, Gronder happens, and is dead.

Or SS, where both Faerghus and Alliance are jsut basically written off easily. 

CF might have defeated the other nations, but it actually treats the other nations as an actual foe to defeat, giving each side a chance to show off what they've got.

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That's possible. Its possible that those five years in Crimson Flowers have been spend with skirmishes or just eyeing the opposing force, and that's why the borders haven't changed much. However its also possible the borders haven't changed much because both sides have been tossing armies at each other for five years without any success. Stalemates don't need to mean that the conflict isn't very severe or doesn't have intense action. The Three Kingdoms that Fodlan is probably based on spend most of their wars with completely static borders and it was still a very bloody affair, with each of the nations tossing armies of thousands into the meat grinder without getting anything done. Things like Sothis narration or Dorothea's sullen attitude does suggest a certain amount of blood has been spilled even if the borders haven't changed. It might be more that there's a deadlock because neither side made a successful huge move rather than them not having made such moves at all. 

I guess it depends on exactly what happens. The battle between the eastern Fearghus lords and the Dukedom might have been more bloody if everyone was just twiddling their thumbs for five years during crimson flower. But if they didn't then the combined armies of the Church and Kingdom should put things on a far larger scale then a civil war in Fearghus . Acheron aside the Alliance seems to bicker more than fight it out. Even gloucester, the worst of the worst seems more interested in just not pissing off Edelgard rather than playing games to topple Riegan. There's a lot of concern in Verdant Wind of Gloucester being forced to oppose them if they play their cards wrong but this is resolved. We don't hear much of anti and pro imperial lords mustering forces to fight each other. At worst Gloucester just lets Edelgard march trough his lands or sends Lorenz to the bridge. 

Actually, you could actually come close to an understanding when you consider the context of the dialogue and lines in the game itself.

In non-CF routes, Ferdinand's paralogue reveals that Arundel has been forcibly conscripting civilians into the army. This paralogue doesn't exist in CF, since the Empire is much more stable, but that also means that Edelgard lacks manpower since she isn't forcefully conscripting people. Hence why she needs aid from the Alliance. 

Faerghus might have the Knights of Seiros, but Dimitri himself stated that Faerghus lacks resources needed to mount a siege. The reason they could in AM is because Faerghus ended up backed by the Alliance in the end, and they used the Alliance to mount an attack that landed at Enbarr. But in CF, the Alliance is neutral, so Dimitri cannot use that as help.

Add in how not all the lords in the Kingdom are actually united with Dimitri, and that makes raising a full army to oppose the Empire less likely to happen, which is why the narration mentions how Dimitri is working to raise an army with Rhea.

It's hard to put a number by how severe the damage is, but the stalemate and context of the various situations actually implies heavily that, while there have been some battles that had bloodshed, there hasn't been any indication of such damage that it's nearly as bloody as you are assuming it to be. 

Keep in mind that non-CF routes have Gronder, which has been noted to be a seriously bloody field where all nations suffer heavy casualties. 

4 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

It generally doesn't take very long to conquer an enemy territory in Fire Emblem. In FE6, conquering Bern is 2 maps if you exclude the gaiden. In FE8 Ephraim, Grado is 3. In FE9, Daein is 4. In non-CF, Adrestia is either 4 to 5 depending on route. CF having conquests of 2 and 3 maps respectively doesn't feel terribly out of line, especially since there are a variety of reasons that the Alliance, in particular, should not have been a long fight (both sides want to minimize conflict, Edelgard having support from Gloucester).

I like that I can easily recall the narrative purpose of each map in Three Houses. I wouldn't precisely object to adding one or two more, but it's within bounds I consider reasonable, and adding significantly more would just lead to it feeling bloated, the way Part 3 in Radiant Dawn does IMHO. (I love RD, I'm not trying to throw shade.)

A very good point. Especially when you consider that the entire Alliance isn't even united. 

Edmund is generally an opportunist that will withhold any armed forces to see how things would go. Goneril focuses mostly on the Almyrans in Fodlan's Locket, so they won't be able to come in help directly. Ordelia has lost quite a bit of influence following the Hrym Rebellion.

So Claude literally only has his own personal forces and House Daphnel's support, and the Almyrans. So he literally couldn't actually make a long battle happen. 

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13 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

It generally doesn't take very long to conquer an enemy territory in Fire Emblem. In FE6, conquering Bern is 2 maps if you exclude the gaiden. In FE8 Ephraim, Grado is 3. In FE9, Daein is 4. In non-CF, Adrestia is either 4 to 5 depending on route. CF having conquests of 2 and 3 maps respectively doesn't feel terribly out of line, especially since there are a variety of reasons that the Alliance, in particular, should not have been a long fight (both sides want to minimize conflict, Edelgard having support from Gloucester).

I like that I can easily recall the narrative purpose of each map in Three Houses. I wouldn't precisely object to adding one or two more, but it's within bounds I consider reasonable, and adding significantly more would just lead to it feeling bloated, the way Part 3 in Radiant Dawn does IMHO. (I love RD, I'm not trying to throw shade.)

Incorrect on Grado. Every Ephraim battle is Grado, the peninsula where Fort Rigwald and Bethroen lay belong to Grado, and the Phantom Ship was Riev's lackies so it was being deployed in service of Grado (which in turn was in service of Formortiis) and in thoroughly Gradoan waters. The actual number of fights in Grado is therefore 6. Thats pretty impressive for an enemy nation.

I'm able to excuse PoR because of Ashnard's abandonment, if it was questionable writing move. Bern... well Chapter 21 is one helluva battle, and technically you have been dwindling down the Bernese army in about every fight during the Lycia, Nabata-Etruria, and Ilia/Sacae arcs. Therefore, I think I'm able to excuse Bern, and although it is far smaller in size, Grust has the same "you've been killing it with a thousand cuts" logic to justify conquest in a single battle in the homeland.

The gradual erosion logic might be able to work with Genealogy too, since every castle except Meath, Darna, and the entirety of Chapter 9 barring a contingent of reinforcements, consists of Loptian and or Grannvalian forces. If you use endgame Thracia for comparison, it takes Leif, factoring out the two gaidens, five battles to liberate Munster, and you could likely consolidate the last two- they're both indoors and the latter only exists because you need an epic-ish (the map, not Veld himself) final battle. If you applied this to Genealogy via imagination of the microcosmic war details the game excluded because of its macrocosmic scope, which is a hazardous proposition, then that would mean a ton of battles with Grannvale- albeit not all of equal size.

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This is why you dont make an avatar a chosen god or main protagonist of a story driven game.Everybody interprets things differently. They should be random soldier that becomes the narrator at the end telling his side of the war. It also DOESNT help the avatar in FE that. Kris: steals the show in a game about Marth which defeats the point of Marth being the protagonist. Robin : is a chosen beacon for Grima and because of the grimleas cult is the prophecied host of Grima which deprives him and the grimleas of free will ( chosen one and prophecy do that lot) Corrin: the world follows them like they can’t function without their approval. Byleth a chosen vessel except it’s the Good God instead of evil one and they turn the war in the favor of who they side with. Your avatar shouldn’t have this kind of traits since EVEN WITHOUT PERMADEATH it removes suspense and drama since if they show up with these traits the battle is already won

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I agree the avatar should like Mark from FE7 the end result of the game rated your strategic mind. If they want a avatar make it like Mark with an appearance outside of battle like the monastery equivalent and choices define your avatar personality. They should go with what Koei Tecmo did in dynasty and Samurai empires your voice type is your personality for dialogue trees.that way fans still get their avatar dating without problems but also makes sense why you’re the strategist and they listen to you on a map.the support shows their trust in you as a strategist 

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1 hour ago, grinus said:

I do wish Intelligent Systems would go back to the player being the unnamed Strategist who is not one of the characters. I liked how the characters would turn to the screen to ask/talk to you. 

I disagree simply because if you’re gonna do that then what’s the point of having an avatar character in the first place.

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That is also true but the avatar shouldn’t be the main character or chosen one by god or dragon. It makes for poor  writing since every player has a different avatar/MyUnit/Personality. They should be random recruit. If they had done that with 3HOUSES instead of forcing Byleth into one,there wouldn’t many problems with them because Had no Personality and poorly executed.even Smash fan hated them since Smash 4. 3 of smash bros FE cast are avatar. They would have better received if they were not made into an avatar in their game.Byleth is not an Avatar as Mekkah said. But they suffer from avatar syndrome in my book for being forced into being one. In My opinion the avatar should be a random student you create and Byleth and the rest of cast will feel more real. Why Because Byleth has history with the church and student so they would be more involved then the random avatar who is still wondering how he got isekaid in there 

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While I'm not a fan of Kris, Corrin, or Byleth, I actually like Robin because he is still his own character. And frankly, I don't find him being the vessel of a evil god dragon to be bad writing by any means. If anything, it's more potential that would have been explored well if they tried more. 

It isn't like Awakening had the entire story revolve around Robin. It didn't. Its issue was that it crammed three arcs that could be its own game into a single game. It feels rushed and needed more work. 

It isn't like Corrin, where the whole world seem to revolve around Corrin. 

And while Kris has some issues, he really isn't THAT bad. Not like he actually steals the spotlight from Marth, because the story still is about Marth. They just could have handled some stuff about Kris better, but the issue there is that they placed an Avatar in a remake of a game. 

The reason Byleth needed to be the avatar is cause this is a multi-route game. One character has to choose a faction in the end and be the teacher, influencing them. Them being a god might have some issues, but other cases it works cause it explains why they are able to make many of the cast side with them and be willing to abandon their own nation. 

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23 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

It generally doesn't take very long to conquer an enemy territory in Fire Emblem. In FE6, conquering Bern is 2 maps if you exclude the gaiden. In FE8 Ephraim, Grado is 3. In FE9, Daein is 4. In non-CF, Adrestia is either 4 to 5 depending on route. CF having conquests of 2 and 3 maps respectively doesn't feel terribly out of line, especially since there are a variety of reasons that the Alliance, in particular, should not have been a long fight (both sides want to minimize conflict, Edelgard having support from Gloucester).

I like that I can easily recall the narrative purpose of each map in Three Houses. I wouldn't precisely object to adding one or two more, but it's within bounds I consider reasonable, and adding significantly more would just lead to it feeling bloated, the way Part 3 in Radiant Dawn does IMHO. (I love RD, I'm not trying to throw shade.)

I have always been a critic of Roy conquering Bern in a span of two chapters. So CF making Edelgard a hyper competent like Roy is in Binding Blade can make her come off as someone who barely struggles. 

It takes Ephraim 5 chapters to conquer Grado. First is Fort Rigwald, then the chapter where Duessel turns traitor, then the chapter where Ephraim gets off the ship, then the field where he confronts Selena and finally Grado castle. I think 5 chapters to conquer an entire country is sufficient, albeit barely because Grado is the strongest country in Magvel. 

Most of Daein's military was in Crimea so 4 chapters to conquer Daein makes sense. 

I'd say RD's military campaign was written well in part 3, at least in the first half. 

I think part one RD should be longer though. You end up conquering most of the country off screen. 

As for my thoughts, I've written a lot about the military campaign in CF in my Edelgard strategy analysis so I have an appreciation for it. However, I think CF as a whole can be improved by making the military campaign longer and allowing her enemies to win at least once. 

For example, have Claude call in Dimitri for support when Derdrui comes under siege like he did in AM. This would also allow the story to build Dimitri up instead of him only showing up in chapter 17. 

While Edelgard is conquering the alliance, having the monastery fall to the Church would be more interesting than the Church only launching their offensive once Edelgard has conquered the Alliance. 

Her using the Alliance territory to launch an attack on Galatea, then Charon and finally laying encircling the monastery would be great because it would allow us to see the Alliance territory being used as a way to launch an offensive into the Kingdom whereas the Alliance territory was forgotten about in CF after taking it.  

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23 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

For example, have Claude call in Dimitri for support when Derdrui comes under siege like he did in AM. This would also allow the story to build Dimitri up instead of him only showing up in chapter 17. 

Gonna be honest I actually quite like Edelgard facing off against those two by themselves as a core central theme of 3H is that idea of not being open to each other and as a result being unable to cooperate with others. It’s a major aspect of each lords’ respective character arcs. Thematically I think it works because Edelgard is fighting with Byleth and all her classmates. She’s allowing herself to open herself up to Byleth and her allies. Thus they work together and beat Claude and Dimitri who refuse to reach out to others and are thereby isolated as a result. They lose the thematic conflict and therefore lose the battle. 
 

If a character is going to fail in a story then there should be some kind of thematic purpose to it. There’s should be some reason they fail beyond just this not what they expected or they weren’t strong enough. It just adds more nuance to things.

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27 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I have always been a critic of Roy conquering Bern in a span of two chapters.

To be fair, he has been fighting Bern's main force for basically the whole game-there are only two (technically three chapters because chapter 2 is partially in Bern) chapters in Bern itself, but you've been pushing back their frontline for a really long time. (Illia/Sacae all the way to Bern is a lot of receded ground)

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

And while Kris has some issues, he really isn't THAT bad. Not like he actually steals the spotlight from Marth, because the story still is about Marth. They just could have handled some stuff about Kris better, but the issue there is that they placed an Avatar in a remake of a game. 

I'd personally disagree-He does very much take the spotlight away from Marth, who ends up feeling more like a side character than the main lord-Marth really doesn't have that much dialogue, certanly far less than Kris.

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

I actually like Robin because he is still his own character.

I agree with this-He is, IMO, the best FE avatar there's been. A lot of people like Mark, but I dunno, he takes away from Lyn's character a lot, gets the avatar praise that every FE avatar gets, and has nothing to do with the story.

 

Wow. That was a very off-topic post.

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Honestly, I will say that I think my biggest criticism of this game is that they didn't really do a good enough job of making the school life actually feel like a nice moment of joy. I feel like the ONLY time that something neat or happy happened might be the White Heron month thing, with the dance. 

I feel like, the lyrics of the song "Edge of Dawn" makes it sound like the time spent in Garreg Mach was this "magical" time of true joy for Edelgard. But how much was it actually feeling that way? Even if you apply the song lyrics to the other characters, it doesn't change that Garreg Mach didn't feel as magical, but rather was used as a tool to explain connections and plot issues, but it could do that and still have joyful times for the students to be students. 

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Distrust is certainly a theme, but like... all three of them ally themselves with other factions to pursue a shared goal in spite of not being 100% in alignment with said faction (Edelgard + Slitherers in every route, Dimitri + Church in CF, Claude + Church in VW, and an attempted Dimitri + Claude alliance in AM that was of course ruined in a contrived way).

I'd argue a Church/Kingdom/Alliance counter alliance is actually pretty doable/realistic assuming everyone is sane lol

Buuuut it's clear IS didn't want that to happen.

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58 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Gonna be honest I actually quite like Edelgard facing off against those two by themselves as a core central theme of 3H is that idea of not being open to each other and as a result being unable to cooperate with others. It’s a major aspect of each lords’ respective character arcs. Thematically I think it works because Edelgard is fighting with Byleth and all her classmates. She’s allowing herself to open herself up to Byleth and her allies. Thus they work together and beat Claude and Dimitri who refuse to reach out to others and are thereby isolated as a result. They lose the thematic conflict and therefore lose the battle. 
 

If a character is going to fail in a story then there should be some kind of thematic purpose to it. There’s should be some reason they fail beyond just this not what they expected or they weren’t strong enough. It just adds more nuance to things.

The game doesn't treat this as a plot point. Claude has no problem working with Almyra. Dimitri has no problem working with Rhea. Furthermore, Claude has no problem working with Dimitri in AM despite having even less reason to do so. 

57 minutes ago, Benice said:

To be fair, he has been fighting Bern's main force for basically the whole game-there are only two (technically three chapters because chapter 2 is partially in Bern) chapters in Bern itself, but you've been pushing back their frontline for a really long time. (Illia/Sacae all the way to Bern is a lot of receded ground)

I'd personally disagree-He does very much take the spotlight away from Marth, who ends up feeling more like a side character than the main lord-Marth really doesn't have that much dialogue, certanly far less than Kris.

I agree with this-He is, IMO, the best FE avatar there's been. A lot of people like Mark, but I dunno, he takes away from Lyn's character a lot, gets the avatar praise that every FE avatar gets, and has nothing to do with the story.

 

Wow. That was a very off-topic post.

FE6's story doesn't give the impression that prior to chapter 21, the Bern army has been damaged much. I remember that only a token force was provided to the Etrurian nobles Illia and Sacae in order to screw them over. 

The Bern army is still considered the strongest army prior to chapter 21

Spoiler

Guinevere guided Roy toward the Temple of Seals, but in their path stood Bern’s main forces, the strongest army on the continent, led by Murdock, the leader of the Three Dragon Lords.

Etruria and Bern, the two leading forces on the continent, clashing in all-out war. The longest and bloodiest day yet to be seen by Elibe was about to begin…

To me it seems like Bern is giving the bare minimum number of troops to defend Sacae/Illia against Roy's army.

Spoiler

Soldier:
“…Are you sure, my lady?”

Brenya:
“Those two are disgraceful cowards who cast away their homeland to save their own skins. We must not assist them any more than necessary. They should be thankful that they are getting the land and troops that they are.”

A bare minimum was also provided to Narcian in the defense of Acquila. 

Spoiler

Murdock:
“So, Narshen has fallen.”

Gale:
“Yes. Lord Murdock, did we really not have to aid him?”

Murdock:
“Those were the king’s orders. Besides, the Bern army has no use for a man who cannot clean up his own messes.”

 

Edited by Icelerate
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14 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

FE6's story doesn't give the impression that prior to chapter 21, the Bern army has been damaged much. I remember that only a token force was provided to the Etrurian nobles Illia and Sacae in order to screw them over. 

Would you want to continue the conversation via PM? I don't really want to derail the thread more than I already have.

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5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

While I'm not a fan of Kris, Corrin, or Byleth, I actually like Robin because he is still his own character. And frankly, I don't find him being the vessel of a evil god dragon to be bad writing by any means. If anything, it's more potential that would have been explored well if they tried more. 

It isn't like Awakening had the entire story revolve around Robin. It didn't. Its issue was that it crammed three arcs that could be its own game into a single game. It feels rushed and needed more work. 

I agree with this mostly. Robin was the least 'avatar' character because he had a very distinct personality and just felt like a character to the game, rather than "my" character. I got to control him a bit more than the other characters but he wasn't "me". So in that respect he's actually my favorite, because it felt okay that story did end up revolving around him at the end.

Whereas Corrin was written to be specifically 'me' and had a weak, grating personality in turn and the story revolved around them from start to finish, which made them an even worse character.

Byleth (as a silent protag) was fine, because he lacked ANY personality, which to me is better than a character that has a bad one, but out of the ones mentioned, I think Byleth does the whole avatar thing the best in terms of being a literal blank slate, because if we're going to have an avatar character, I think it works the best. The weird part about Byleth was that their decision essentially determines the outcome of everything and the 'bonds' they create, which seems silly since they have 0 personality.

That being said, I definitely just want a customizable strategist character who participates in the wars/battles, but isn't even CLOSE to the main focus. So Mark, but playable essentially. Then the silent part would be fine for me, and it would feel like an impassive observer where they ask my advice.

Overall though, I think 3 Houses teeters on being my favorite FE game for sure. I've been replaying Dimitri's route again, and I still see the same flaws I did a year ago, but I think I appreciate the fullness and depth of the story even more this time around. I think the only thing that I don't particularly love IS Byleth, even though I think he was done the best he could have been with them making him essential to the plot.

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Having an avatar that is not the central point of the story sounds like a bad idea to me. If you're a random soldier in an army, and no story revolves around you but all about some other main character, then why would there even be an avatar? An avatar needs a large role so your choices can matter.

I do feel Byleth is one of the best avatars we've had so far in FE. The choice the player gets to make on what house to support is what makes Byleth better as an avatar than a regular character. Though I will agree that most other "choices" are fake and the rest of the story they're more a character than an avatar.

Only reason Robin works as an avatar is the choice they must make at the end of the final chapter, other than that they might as well have made Robin a regular character.

Mark is a strange one, I can't seem to make up my mind about them. The game really doesn't seem to need them, Mark is just a random flair they decided to add. But somehow I still like it. You get to be part of the story through them, without them taking over the main role. Kris is probably closest to Mark IMO.

 

(Is this thread getting derailed too far? I really think it's dancing on the edge?)

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3 hours ago, whase said:

Only reason Robin works as an avatar is the choice they must make at the end of the final chapter, other than that they might as well have made Robin a regular character.

Which works on the theme of the story being about the struggles to overcome destiny. It figures that the last choice would matter because only then can you alter destiny itself.

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I think Rhea playing the damsel in distress three out of four routes is something I've soured on. I used to think it was an okay plot device and to some extend it still is. It allows a power vacuum for Byleth to step into, it creates some mystery and it allows the world to change while she's locked away.

Rhea being captured in one of the routes would be fine. Have her be locked up in Verdant Wind so she can't get in the way of Claude's plans for reform. She'll still get her spotlight by taking out the nukes and explaining her backstory at the end. 

But in Silver Snow and Azure Moon it would be more interesting if Rhea is still around. In Silver Snow she could fill the void of the missing house leader that Seteth just can't fill on his own. It allows her to bond with her grandchild and of course she'll step down for Byleth in the end. In Azure Moon it would be very interesting to have Rhea around. She and Dimitri are the same as far as their issues go. They are very benevolent characters with their hearts in the right place but their respective traumas lead them to corruption and insanity. Rhea could either spiral out of control along with Dimitri to reinforce the theme of trauma leading to insanity, or she could intensely sympathize with Dimitri because she has very personal experiences of fighting off those demons. But with Rhea being locked up and not even appearing in Azure Moon the similarities are never addressed. 

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4 hours ago, whase said:

Having an avatar that is not the central point of the story sounds like a bad idea to me. If you're a random soldier in an army, and no story revolves around you but all about some other main character, then why would there even be an avatar? An avatar needs a large role so your choices can matter.

No, you don't need a major role. An avatar can be your window into a world without being its axis mundi. 

Why have a window into the world if you aren't the star? Because the world itself is worth immersing yourself in, merely spectating is gratifying enough.

FE doesn't seem well suited to this, being a linear SRPG. But in a different genre, like the nebulous worlds of both Japanese and Western RPGs and open-world games, it can make alot more sense.

For my example- Xenoblade Chronicles X.:

  • After Chapter 5 of 12, your avatar stops being anything more than a silent assistant. You're barely acknowledged in the story and Elma is the real protagonist, to the point Monolith doesn't advertise the avatar at all and uses Elma as the main representative of the game.
  • However, the physical world of XCX is very beautiful and worth exploring, being an avatar gives you the freedom to do that on your own schedule.
  • And it isn't like the avatar doesn't exist entirely. You're the one everyone addresses and interacts with in the many sidequests (that establish some good world-building) and Affinity Missions and Heart-to-Hearts. It's more here in the optional content that you can make some choices with weight. Nothing that at all affects the main story or overall outcome of the world, but thats fine considering how short the main story actually is.
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