A New Mythic Hero Arrives: Hel: Death Sovereign (July 30th)

[Etria]

Neet, I like Hel's design. I really hate how her name's pronounced in English, though. Hel and hell are not the same; the second l is not decoration.

[XRay]

50 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Anyways, Hel's summonable now. She's a flying axe and Dark Def Mythic with Hel's Reaper (SC-1, neutralises flier effectiveness, if foe doesn't use magic at 2 range calculates damage against foe's Res and if foe would reduce HP to 0 she survives with one HP (once per combat, BUT THAT'S FUCKING ONE TOO MANY FOR ME I HATE THIS MORE THAN SINMARA)), Luna, DC, Guard Bearing 3 (Fucking really? Bad enough she has the scythe.) and Inevitable Death (Reduces foe's stats by 4 if they're in two spaces of her during combat (This is just an annoyance)). So I'm not seeing how all y'all are discussing Hel being irrelevant, the scythe alone has done me in enough times to drive me insane.

Just because a Hel's Reaper has a lot of effects does not mean those effects are good or relevant to the meta. Unless you can think of a scenario where that combination of effects can actually do something, I am not seeing how she is at all relevant.

The best I can come up with is improving the team's mobility by giving Guidance/Orders to her allies and be a Wings of Mercy beacon, and that will give player phase teams some difficulty, but that is about it. You can run two of her to help make Dancers/Singers harder to Isolate, but at that point, you are running 2 support units just to support 1 or 2 other support units, and that is just bad team composition since there will not be enough nukes to cover territory.

She does absolutely nothing to a super tank team.

Edited July 29, 2020 by XRay

[Mercakete]

Man, this is DEFINATLY a green season for me! (But I still am waiting for a pity break on my 4% in the summer banner and I have like...12 orbs or something so I'm really not prepared for this. ;-; ) Hel's so crazy. I already really liked the book 3 designs and such so much, and she's even sharing a color with Thrasir and good skill fodder Edelgard! Maaaan I wish I had more orbs saved up for this than I do. XD;

[Hilda]

3 hours ago, XRay said:

I guess she can be a decent frontliner to compliment or replace Seliph, but defensive units and teams do not seem very good in my opinion since they do not have the reach nor player phase combat performance to really threaten anything or exert any kind of stress or pressure. Super tanks can just out match them on enemy phase. I guess they can pose a little more challenge to player phase teams with Wings of Mercy teammates, but that is dependent on the player phase team not running a fast Brave unit or a bulky Impact Galeforcer break a frontliner's Miracle. They can shut down Kronya and Counter-Vantage units I guess, but any player with a Counter-Vantage strategy usually already has a super tank or player phase team, since Counter-Vantage is generally something a player would build after they got their super tank or player phase team built.

And as you say, I think Seliph can do that job better due to higher stats from being Blessed.

She can better fit into a flier ball, but I do not think those are that good either right now.

honey, this wasnt a discussion about strategies, nothing is fool-proof. I just wanted to state that Hel isnt just strictly a flier guidance/ground orders unit and that there is some potential in her.

[Diovani Bressan]

Hm... maybe I should go back to the old Axebreaker Aversa kit. This will be useful.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Diovani Bressan

[DefyingFates]

7 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Hel looks pretty nice. First they gave her a New weapon, Hel's Reaper, that has the same effects as Hel Scythe plus Iote Shield

I knew something was different about her, thanks for pointing it out! I thought I was going crazy 😛

7 hours ago, Othin said:

Ooh, that's why her weapon didn't lose its enemy-only tag. Interesting.

Also gives precedent for regular Veronica and Bruno getting stronger variants of their launch weapons when they inevitably get added.

That's what I'm thinking too. Not to mention the possibility that Freyja (and Freyr?) may get buffs down the line too. Maybe an anti-anti Cavalry and/ or Beast effect?

[Diovani Bressan]

1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

I knew something was different about her, thanks for pointing it out! I thought I was going crazy 😛

That's what I'm thinking too. Not to mention the possibility that Freyja (and Freyr?) may get buffs down the line too. Maybe an anti-anti Cavalry and/ or Beast effect?

Yeah. At first I though it was the same weapon. I didn't read the weapon name because it's Hel, so of course she would have the same weapon she has in Book 3. But then, I noticed the Iote Shield effect and was like "I don't remember Hel having that". I went to Gamepedia and discovered that she didn't get a new effect... she got a new weapon.

Freyja getting anti cavalry/beast would be crazy.

[Othin]

7 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Give her fort def/res 3 if you have a spare copy. If not, then get a Kliff from Heroes path once you have saved enough papers. 

That sounds like an enormous waste of manual codes. I do have an extra Idunn, so I could do that, I guess, but for a unit I rarely use for combat, it still seems like too tiny of a bonus to be worth much. I think I'll try her out with just Fortress Def at first to see how it goes, then decide if I want to upgrade. 

[jameslove001]

I know a lot of y'all done seem to excited about the banner, but the combo of Altina, Fallen Tiki and Edeldgard ... oh me oh my. And I wouldn't mind making a plus ten Fjorm or Eir if I am completely honest. I get that there are some garbage units, but I think I might spend some orbs here. Although one of you said you may wait for a CYL banner and I think I will follow that advice before just going whole hog. (Wow...I am super Southern in this post).

[Kaden]

I am not that thrilled about them making an upgraded version of Hel's Scythe, Hel's Reaper, just so it can negate effective damage from anti-air weapons. I feel like they should have updated Hel's Scythe to negate effective damage. Boohoo, PvE maps involving her are now a bit harder, but it seems inefficient to have to make another copy of the same weapon with a slight difference. If they felt like her weapon was too powerful or too weak and decided to give her an entirely different weapon, then sure, whatever, but this is like if when Surtr became summonable, his summonable version was given "Hellfire Sinmara" and its only difference was that it negated effective damage or summonable Helbindi was given a different version of Byleistr with just Atk+3 or Def+3 tacked on. Really?

It's probably not a lot of space being used to give summonable Hel a Hel's Scythe with another effect, but it adds up. For one, I feel like either the original Killing and anti-armor weapons and -wolf tomes or the Slaying versions of the Killer and anti-armor weapons and Keen -wolf tomes should be removed. If its the former, then just update them to have the same Mt and ability to be refined like their upgraded versions and if its the latter, then those who had the original weapons can just have them be replaced. Assassin's Bow is the only weird one as it goes from Daggerbreaker EX to Distant Def 3 when evolved to Guard Bow. And then there's the inheritable Nifl summer weapons and the recent bride weapons where the bride weapons have the same effect as the Nifl summer weapons and also have a Breath effect. Seasonal weapons having the same effect as later to be introduced regular weapons are fine as they're like skins, but Hel's Scythe and Hel's Reaper or Shoreline Rake and Huge Fan are eh. They feel like they're wasting space. The only time Hel's Scythe is going to be used is when she's an enemy in the chapters she appeared in. Nobody can inherit it and she won't be nor does she want to use it as a summonable unit.

If the intention is to replace Hel's Scythe with Hel's Reaper as in Hel as an enemy in the chapters she appeared in and perhaps will appear in the future, then sure, whatever. A bit of a roundabout way to upgrade her, but at least there's not a slightly different copy lying around. Things being untouchable in gacha games are what they are, but sometime it feels silly. Is it really such wrong thing for Bruno's Valaskjalf to be upgraded to have Vantage 3 or Veronica's Elivagar to be upgraded to Panic Smoke 3 or whatever it's called where it inflicts Panic on her target and foes within two spaces of the target and as long as she attacked? Or if Alfonse's unrefined Folkvangr's base effect of Defiant Atk 2 was replaced with Brazen Atk/Def 3? Or a legendary or mythic hero to become slightly better like F!Grima's Dragonskin granting her Spd/Def/Res+3 as stat boots like Dragoon Shield or in combat from its Iote's Shield and Bracing Stance 2 effect? I could see people being pissed if a unit were to become weaker or inexplicably and obscenely stronger like legendary Alm being updated to gen 4 physical ranged BST with most if not all the points being dumped into his attack and speed and Luna Arc's effect working on both phases and dealing damage equal to 50% of the foe's defense.

As for her being this months mythic. She makes sense as a dark mythic, but I would have preferred a chance at an astra mythic and especially one who is ranged, player phase unit, or at least is a better support or all-around unit than Naga. Altina at least is a Counter, Vantage unit by default and while she was free for a very limited time, is used in some guides, Naga just exists.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Kaden

[Othin]

6 minutes ago, Kaden said:

I am not that thrilled about them making an upgraded version of Hel's Scythe, Hel's Reaper, just so it can negate effective damage from anti-air weapons. I feel like they should have updated Hel's Scythe to negate effective damage. Boohoo, PvE maps involving her are now a bit harder, but it seems inefficient to have to make another copy of the same weapon with a slight difference. If they felt like her weapon was too powerful or too weak and decided to give her an entirely different weapon, then sure, whatever, but this is like if when Surtr became summonable, his summonable version was given "Hellfire Sinmara" and its only difference was that it negated effective damage or summonable Helbindi was given a different version of Byleistr with just Atk+3 or Def+3 tacked on. Really?

It's probably not a lot of space being used to give summonable Hel a Hel's Scythe with another effect, but it adds up. For one, I feel like either the original Killing and anti-armor weapons and -wolf tomes or the Slaying versions of the Killer and anti-armor weapons and Keen -wolf tomes should be removed. If its the former, then just update them to have the same Mt and ability to be refined like their upgraded versions and if its the latter, then those who had the original weapons can just have them be replaced. Assassin's Bow is the only weird one as it goes from Daggerbreaker EX to Distant Def 3 when evolved to Guard Bow. And then there's the inheritable Nifl summer weapons and the recent bride weapons where the bride weapons have the same effect as the Nifl summer weapons and also have a Breath effect. Seasonal weapons having the same effect as later to be introduced regular weapons are fine as they're like skins, but Hel's Scythe and Hel's Reaper or Shoreline Rake and Huge Fan are eh. They feel like they're wasting space. The only time Hel's Scythe is going to be used is when she's an enemy in the chapters she appeared in. Nobody can inherit it and she won't be nor does she want to use it as a summonable unit.

If the intention is to replace Hel's Scythe with Hel's Reaper as in Hel as an enemy in the chapters she appeared in and perhaps will appear in the future, then sure, whatever. A bit of a roundabout way to upgrade her, but at least there's not a slightly different copy lying around.

As for her being this months mythic. She makes sense as a dark mythic, but I would have preferred a chance at an astra mythic and especially one who is ranged, player phase unit, or at least is a better support or all-around unit than Naga. Altina at least is a Counter, Vantage unit by default and while she was free for a very limited time, is used in some guides, Naga just exists.

I think they're making a point of avoiding changing existing maps, which seems like a reasonable call.

It's not like there's a limited number of slots for weapons available, so I don't see a problem with this.

[Diovani Bressan]

Maybe we will get Plumeria, for example, as September's Mythic? She would be a nice Astra Hero, and I feel she will be made available first than Triandra.Plumeria doesn't look to be as important to the story as Triandra is.

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Maybe we will get Plumeria, for example, as September's Mythic? She would be a nice Astra Hero, and I feel she will be made available first than Triandra.Plumeria doesn't look to be as important to the story as Triandra is.

I've been thinking they could round out the quad nicely with Plumeria as Astra and Triandra as Dark, so that would work.

[Diovani Bressan]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

I've been thinking they could round out the quad nicely with Plumeria as Astra and Triandra as Dark, so that would work.

Plumeria could boost Res, for example. And her skills are pretty nice. Her weapon grants Atk/Res+3 during combat to all allies within 5 rows and 3 columns centered on unit, and  her dance grants +3 to all stats to target and inflict -4 on nearest foes. Having a dancer in Astra that is a Mythic hero will be nice. I would probably remove Naga, since Altina is quite useful.

This skillset looks nice for a Offensive Mythic Hero, while Triandra's and Mirabilis' look to be more defensive.

Initially, i thought Mirabilis would be Astra and Plumeria would be Anima, but it was not the case.

...

Back to Hel's banner, I may use some orbs in the green pool. Those 3 are pretty nice, and I wouldn't mind a Thrasir to fix my -Spd one. Hel herself is pretty cool.

[Othin]

6 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Plumeria could boost Res, for example. And her skills are pretty nice. Her weapon grants Atk/Res+3 during combat to all allies within 5 rows and 3 columns centered on unit, and  her dance grants +3 to all stats to target and inflict -4 on nearest foes. Having a dancer in Astra that is a Mythic hero will be nice. I would probably remove Naga, since Altina is quite useful.

This skillset looks nice for a Offensive Mythic Hero, while Triandra's and Mirabilis' look to be more defensive.

Initially, i thought Mirabilis would be Astra and Plumeria would be Anima, but it was not the case.

...

Back to Hel's banner, I may use some orbs in the green pool. Those 3 are pretty nice, and I wouldn't mind a Thrasir to fix my -Spd one. Hel herself is pretty cool.

If I ever get an Astra dancer, I'll probably make a mix of dancer/Altina and dancer/Naga teams, since they both have uses. Sort of like what I usually do for Light, although Eir and Mila are way better. Also my Altina is +1 and Naga is +2, which complicates things and could incentivize using both if I'm sure I can get away with it. 

And yeah, I'd also been expecting Anima Plumeria before Mirabilis showed up. 

[Karimlan]

10 hours ago, Othin said:

In addition to Hel's color being a surprise for this month

Was it, really? I pretty much thought that if ever Hel is included, she'd be an axe unit, given that Surtr's Sinmara is depicted as a scythe, and it may not make sense to depict Hel's weapon as something entirely different, aside from the fact that Surtr's weapon could have been named something else (allowing for ambiguity) while Hel's was really a scythe.

Nomenclature aside, I already had a need to pull green (for Edelgard merges and at least one Thrasir, which I don't have), and Hel is just gravy (but, gravy is fun). I'm not too sold on colorless (getting Leila would be sweet, getting a second Eir would be okay, but I don't want another F!Corrin), and red/blue don't look too appealing at all.

[Kaden]

4 minutes ago, Othin said:

I think they're making a point of avoiding changing existing maps, which seems like a reasonable call.

It's not like there's a limited number of slots for weapons available, so I don't see a problem with this.

I understand that, but I feel like it should not be that big of a deal. If the anti-air unit, particularly an archer, wasn't able to double her in the first place or do enough damage with effective damage, then she still lives. Thing is that she never appears or has not appeared yet outside of her upcoming mythic hero battle with Distant Counter, so the worst that could happen is that it takes another turn for someone to kill her and that might have been a thing in the first place. Brave Bow still murders without effective damage and taking another turn to riddle her with arrows might not change much. Or if the original strategy was to use a mage without effective damage against fliers or even a healer to deal with her, then it doesn't change a thing. She's going to die as she has always.

I feel like that units who had their GHB or Bound Hero Battles before they were part of a weapon update should be updated to use their preferred weapon. In some cases, it might not be that different like they can still keep Navarre using a resistance refine on abyssal, but now he has two extra attack due to using Scarlet Sword instead of Slaying Edge+. For lore or reference reasons, then sure, they can stick with their default weapon like it might not make sense for Raven in his and Lucius's BHB to be wielding Basilkos. The units do this in Rival Domains, but they don't in Training Tower or wherever else where they appear more randomly instead of having been set in the past like in their chapters, BHB, or whatever. I still would like to see GHB and TT units as random units in Training Tower, appear in Rival Domains, or used more in general in PvE content.

There isn't a limited number of slots for weapons available, but they do take up space. It might not be much for one weapon to have another better copy, but it would add like like the Killing and anti-armor weapons and -wolf tomes. There's three sets of weapons that no new unit is going to ever show up with and the only units with them were launch and early units who outside of very specific case for controlling how much attack everyone has, probably would not want to use over their stronger versions.

Speaking of storage, I wish we could have the ability to choose if we want to have the movies installed on the app so we can watch them through the app or not and save space. I think all of the movies we can just watch on the Nintendo Mobile channel.

[Othin]

16 minutes ago, Karimlan said:

Was it, really? I pretty much thought that if ever Hel is included, she'd be an axe unit, given that Surtr's Sinmara is depicted as a scythe, and it may not make sense to depict Hel's weapon as something entirely different, aside from the fact that Surtr's weapon could have been named something else (allowing for ambiguity) while Hel's was really a scythe.

Nomenclature aside, I already had a need to pull green (for Edelgard merges and at least one Thrasir, which I don't have), and Hel is just gravy (but, gravy is fun). I'm not too sold on colorless (getting Leila would be sweet, getting a second Eir would be okay, but I don't want another F!Corrin), and red/blue don't look too appealing at all.

I mean, we'd already fought Hel as an axe unit, it was just that the returning elemental heroes included two green and only one colorless, so it seemed more likely for the new hero to be colorless and therefore not Hel.

[Karimlan]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

it was just that the returning elemental heroes included two green and only one colorless

Now that you put it that way, it makes more sense. Thanks 🙂 I was looking at it from a totally different direction.

 

[Xenomata]

7 hours ago, XRay said:

Just because a Hel's Reaper has a lot of effects does not mean those effects are good or relevant to the meta. Unless you can think of a scenario where that combination of effects can actually do something, I am not seeing how she is at all relevant.

The best I can come up with is improving the team's mobility by giving Guidance/Orders to her allies and be a Wings of Mercy beacon, and that will give player phase teams some difficulty, but that is about it. You can run two of her to help make Dancers/Singers harder to Isolate, but at that point, you are running 2 support units just to support 1 or 2 other support units, and that is just bad team composition since there will not be enough nukes to cover territory.

She does absolutely nothing to a super tank team.

I think Hel's whole thing to make her good will be her permanent Miracle effect as long as she has more than minimum HP. Assuming she has about the same Spd as she has as an enemy, most foes will only be able to get one attack in, two if they're a Brave unit, so Hel only needs to withstand one attack and she can launch a potentially powerful Noontime to get back a decent amount of HP in one shot (maybe pack Mystic Boost for extra insurance). Because she has Iotes Shield as well, she doesn't have to worry about Bows either, so as long as the foe doesn't carry any Guard effects, she'll always be recovering her HP in every battle, extra if she packs Mystic Boost, and be "virtually unkillable". Add boosts from skills like Goads, Geirskogul, or similar for extra bulk.

Of course the usual suspects will be able to whittle her down. AoE damage will laugh at her meh Defenses, Firesweep skills will of course not let her last very long (not being able to inherit Null C-Disrupt hurts), Savage Blow and Pain+'s AoE effect can wittle her down without triggering Mystic Boost if she has it, and assuming she has similar stats to her in-game appearances she won't be taking many magical hits. Speedy Brave units could pose a threat to her if they stack enough Spd, or Braves in general if she can't recover enough HP per combat.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Xenomata

[NSSKG151]

So they finally added Hel as a summonable unit huh. I think that's all the Book 3 OCs now. Not looking forward to fighting another annoying axe unit in pvp mode but hopefully it looks like she will be easier to bait out on enemy phase than Surtr. Now I dread the day people can summon Freyja.

Anyways colorless looks like the best color to me and would be the color I would go for but since I don't have orbs it will just the usual free summon and then bail.

[Arhuhamel]

13 hours ago, Jave said:

@Arhuhamel This is the banner you want to pull from if you want Legendary Roy.

As for me, it's an okay banner. I'll probably go for Hel but I will only pull until I get a 5*. After that, I'm back to hoarding.

Thank you for showing me comrade, I have 200 orbs right now, I hope it's enough, as for you comrade, I wish you good luck, If I get roy easyly, I will try altina, then hel, but 200 orbs may not be enough hahahahaha

[SuperNova125]

My Internet connection would lag a bit and I couldn't comment before so that's why I am late.

Hel looks boring a bit, it's nice that her Scythe has Iote's shield on it now. Her C slot is also pretty good and interesting not only for her but for Ally support. DC on her kit is also pretty good and makes her valuable. I am a bit annoyed that we got a dark mythic instead of an Anima one however it doesn't really matter as now Mila can have some sort of counter I guess in AR (not that she needed it). If she does have the Res stat people are speculating, (20 or below) then I won't even bother with her at all. I catculated 38 Atk and 30 Def, so with a respectable 40 Spd she is left with extremely low Res unless they give her extra BST like they did to Surtr and she ends up with a Kris/Larcei statline. However the lack of good B slots and the fact that she can't get bonuses makes her even less appealing. Not interested. 

One question though, does the miracle effect apply only to non Magic and staff foes or to everyone?

Red, Blue are skips. Colourless does have Corrin however she isn't worth it with CYL ahead. Green due to new hero and Edelgard is appealing however El will rerun and I can have a small budget for her so its better to wait. Overall a big skip. 

[Tybrosion]

38 minutes ago, NSSKG151 said:

Now I dread the day people can summon Freyja.

Yeah, and don’t forget that will also be when they’ll tack Grani’s Shield onto her already ridiculous weapon to both prevent her from getting datamined and to continue to show that they (the devs) hate us all.

[LordFrigid]

46 minutes ago, SuperNova125 said:

One question though, does the miracle effect apply only to non Magic and staff foes or to everyone?

Based on the wording, it only applies to non-Magic & staff foes.

You can somewhat confirm this by fighting Hel in Book 4, Ch 13-5, and OHKO-ing her with a magic/staff unit. Hel Scythe and Hel’s Reaper are technically different weapons, but I’d be surprised if that part of the effect changed.