I don't understand 0% growth runs.

[Dragoncat]

These are runs where the game is hacked to give 0% growth rates if I'm correct. How is it possible to beat the game if that's the case? Do the units never grow in stats unless they promote? Do people who do these runs bench older characters and use newer ones because of higher stats later in the game and coddle the lord? Do enemies even get higher stats as the game goes on? Or is there still a miniscule chance that a stat will increase on a level up this way? I think I remember something about level ups will always give you at least one increased stat in either PoR or RD but idk if this is all games.

[starburst]

Watch such a campaign on YouTube. Say, Conquest Lunatic. It will amaze you how units at base level can still deliver kills with the proper bonuses (tonics, auras, skills, weapon triangle bonuses, weapon proficiency bonuses, pair-up bonuses.)
As far as I know, one can still use stat boosters on units, which will most likely be used on already powerful units. If you have played Conquest, think about creating mega monster Xander and Camilla at the core of your party.

[The Roger The Paladin]

A 0% growths run essentially is that no one gets anything from a level up. No one gets away from their bases except from promotions or stat-boosters. Thing is, it's kind of deliberate from a development that there's ways around bad growths, as otherwise a player could theoretically get softlocked by the RNG. Back in FE1, it's actually possible for Marth to solo Medeus from base if you give him the game's stat boosters (this does not apply on H5 in Shadow Dragon, where Medeus will double Marth even if he caps speed). The other thing that's rather important to these strategies is use of status staves, forging, warp/rescue, remembering you don't really need to kill every enemy unless the objective requires it (minimal enemy contact means minimal risk), etc.

Essentially, it means a lot of planning.

 

[Ertrick36]

There are several ways to make a 0% growths run work, depending on the game.

• Permanent stat-boosters: Feed all your perma boosters to one or two units, that's their "progression" in this playstyle
• Temporary stat-boosters: Only viable for games like Awakening or Fates, but you'd make more liberal use of them in this kind of run
• Skills: Once again only viable for games with skills, but every advantage you can muster will help ensure your units dish out enough and take enough to push through the game
• Weapon forging: In games that have it, you may find yourself making abundant use of the mechanic just to up the damage output
• Using already powerful units: Your Jeigans and Alans really pay off, here - later prepromotes even moreso; a 0% growth run is one of the few kinds of runs where such characters and the obligatory endgame sage/warrior are your only powerful units, you might just end up with a party of crusty old men/women (probably with the addition of dragons, too)
• Promotion: Always valuable for anyone that can do it, 0% growth runs don't forbid you from doing it unless you specifically place that limit on the run

I think the idea is to demonstrate that even when nobody gets growths the game is still technically beatable, meaning units who actually have no growths do have value and that you'll always have something to fall back on.  Of course, you won't take everyone with you in a 0% run - a character like Book 2 Alan will be extremely valuable at first, but unless you feed him stat boosters his marginally better base stats won't carry him to the end like later units' base stats would.

Incidentally that means a game like Gaiden where the bulk of stats comes from promotions is easier than a game like Awakening where you expect your units to gain anywhere from 20 to 40 level-ups in each of their stats from actual level-ups.  Then again, you'd probably be forced to defeat Duma with Nosferatu, which is easier said than done.

[dondon151]

I don't know how to answer this question. They simply are possible. You have lots of tools that work even if your stats don't go up, and in some of the later games, you have ways to increase your stats without leveling up.

In a 0% growths run you don't "worry" about training your units (kind of; there are still plenty of reasons to train units) or sticking with a fixed team. You use someone if it helps you and bench someone if it doesn't.

[Eltosian Kadath]

As a fan of watching 0% growth runs I will do my best to answer these questions.

 

15 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

How is it possible to beat the game if that's the case?

It really depends on the game, but there are a few general trends that make them possible. One is that the series was originally designed with permadeath in mind, and as such a lot of the games give out replacements that might be worse than trained units, but can still help out if you don't have those trained units to work with, and these kind of units give 0% growth runs a lot of viable units they can work with. The reclassing option added in later games give you a lot of ways to change stats around to reach key benchmarks. Skills can be combined in ways to gain the kind of edge a low stat unit needs to contribute.

 

15 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

Do the units never grow in stats unless they promote?

Stat boosters are generally still allowed, class changing (FE11-16) can change them around, some of the skills of the later games give out some stats (FE13,14 & 16) , and there are temporary stat boosts (Fe12-14 & 16). There are also some games that forces a certain number of stats to grow, and usually the 0% growth patch will have some way of mitigating that, which I will go into a little more detail how that is generally handled below.

 

15 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

Do people who do these runs bench older characters and use newer ones because of higher stats later in the game and coddle the lord?

I think DonDon151 covered this answer better than I could, but its more about finding people that can contribute in specific situations than having a dedicated team.

 

15 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

Do enemies even get higher stats as the game goes on?

Yes, enemy growth-rates are generally left alone.

 

15 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

Or is there still a miniscule chance that a stat will increase on a level up this way? I think I remember something about level ups will always give you at least one increased stat in either PoR or RD but idk if this is all games.

Unless the game forces a certain number of stat gains per level, there is no chance to increase a stat on levelup. From what I remember Gaiden, Radiant Dawn, and Echoes all force 1 stat on levelup, and Three Houses forces 2 stats on levelup for Byleth and students. The Gaiden and Echoes runs just set Luck growth to 100% to make the stat gains they get have the smallest impact on the game as possible. Dondon151 had a far more complicated fix for Radiant Dawn (and the rare FE10 0% runs seem to follow that trend as far as I can tell), involving physical units having increased Magic caps and 100% Magic growths, while Magical units having increased Strenght caps and 100% Strength growths, and those that use physical weapons and staff got HP. As for Three Houses, setting Dex and Luck to 100% growth seems the common way to deal with it (as those two stats have the least direct impact) although I have heard of a German player doing a 0% growth run where he set the characters stat caps to their current stats before every map (I think, I don't understand the language at all, but that looks like what was happening, and that is how others described it in English).

 

In case you are curious to see what some 0% growth runs look like, here is a list that should have a link to a Youtube playlist for at least one 0% Growth run for each of the games in the spolier box below (technically the FE10 goes to a Serenes Forest page with both URLs to all videos in it and each embedded in the thread but you get the idea).

Spoiler

 
FE1 Efficiecy Run Topazd - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLbiXgvenJo&list=PLwBXd9u3gPzizRXOSfCmhRQTQli6C11LU

FE2 EM Efficiency Run  Palla Emblem - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YN1FSnKrfo&list=PLLz9xZUchaeCZHuMH9tZsM0J36SWvMnTx

FE3B1 LTC KrashBoomBang - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqPiSgc115A&list=PLPJZ7xi_JW4QHezHKOeOalMc6YDBomrXz

FE3B2 LTC Palla Emblem - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jigocnnqtgw&list=PLLz9xZUchaeDyboDjmLF3ijzccNZv0EOQ

FE4 LTC DysenteryMD - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8658NZpRLRM&list=PLcvuFX_7kixQMuuU0PDx-JcPNvkhDB40T

FE5 PM SSSrank DonDon151 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlVW-2PgB6s&list=PLPtcK2f-aIoT9yzQg1lnpNP7Mdz5ft7J2

FE5 NM GodKefka - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4I50Fe2ES0&list=PL1026A7E3F000E87A

FE6 HM LTC/speedrun DonDon151 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Merm6Bh1RzI&list=PLPtcK2f-aIoT9WbxLMRByDhQjGVLxqz9e

FE7 HHM LTC Lapogne36 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUOTM7xlwzY&list=PLAetB_Y-YRT1LaAEd_ncJTChIOcQkY8my

FE7 EHM Efficency Run Sharur - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76F47FUM-dI&list=PLq5BpmSKn1YPe4SxfSU9Sa1b76quwHxB5

FE8(both routes) HM LTC Reploids - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFOv-8ZVr54&list=PLQervznH1fBaUbjRz35yZh8qSPsqj8Prb

FE9 MM LTC Chiki - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJSxTj0IIiY&list=PLZ8w77MvvLwoTch_LFzWvuCPBzEpdH4YU

FE10 HM Dondon151 - https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/21733-rd-hm-0-growths-video-playthrough/

FE11 H5 LTC DonDon151 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cWOyvumpsA&list=PLPtcK2f-aIoTiOYIDtOu4wpb7akJuGGm0

FE11 H5 Warpless LTC Gradivus - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao2nqf7v9I4&list=PL71cbYwnNPhrYCQZdr0fh0O3DmGi166-t

FE12 H4 No crit rigging Reploids - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he-6437EY-U&list=PLQervznH1fBbMMPCQtXytyi-ATauY2l85

FE13 HM LTC MoogleBoss - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXsnF0BQLp8&list=PLbSv8zSDR9c34MOCYxi-iUqkTdRvZOFpB

FE14B L LTC Excadrill1201 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YMFM8Wk85k&list=PLdipupQHZge3bifi7x_oCuYF4ejneHhqh

FE14C L Clear All Enemies 孫亜 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVD7C9pL7Tw&list=PLs6O9xBuyig-j_C9Pyh4uAEWhz0-LDA16

FE14C L LTC ChessJumpBowl - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKrk4PwhUvk&list=PLziGtrz_Wr1AJ96HdaYe0JR-qmvh-mYDP

FE14R L LTC ChessJumpBowl - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgaaJPt1gp0&list=PLziGtrz_Wr1Bu1doCeZLppNBRfOb-3ko3

FE15 HM Rengor1997 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8WhoaCvB9E&list=PLgXdZD-xbNmmBqLCKVcBipWejUdC5AtMx

FE16 GDMM Rengor1997 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gRtr62O2GE&list=PLBMcahFPAd9DSRdzZlvgwQ4V7zlNOsLSM

FE16 AMMM Rengor1997 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt2fYratvrw&list=PLgXdZD-xbNmk333GtaDZfZAOEFarbxcJM

FE16 CFMM Rengor1997 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jET-DsCQY9I&list=PLgXdZD-xbNmkK6L7AOqoMnIO2D9-BNrPn

FE16 SSMM Rengor1997 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jET-DsCQY9I&list=PLgXdZD-xbNmlRDBUCKSXhh0c9s6D2UinV

FE16 CCHM Rengor1997 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsetr7mVSo8&list=PL8649BF05112B18F8

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Eltosian Kadath

[Fabulously Olivier]

Some people are just masochists. If they want to make their game harder for themselves (and only themselves), all the power to them.

[Dragoncat]

Thanks everybody, I understand them now.

2 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Some people are just masochists. If they want to make their game harder for themselves (and only themselves), all the power to them.

LOL, I actually think similar about people who play Maddening and Lunatic.

[starburst]

5 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

LOL, I actually think similar about people who play Maddening and Lunatic.

Ah!, the big difference is that while you and I may set artificial rules and restraints for a challenge that might or might not draw the interest of others, Maddening and Lunatic+ modes were designed by a professional team for the whole audience. And I guarantee you that our artificial challenge will still be more interesting than the tedious and nonsense that Maddening or Lunatic+ ended up being.

Edited August 1, 2020 by starburst

[Florete]

Why not just go watch one and see how it's done for yourself? They've been done and recorded, so clearly they're possible.

[Lightcosmo]

I think alot of it is the thrill of figuring out options to something that can challenge you in so many different ways. FE has alot of options at base, and limiting yourself just blinds your eyes to alot of options. I think that's the value 0% players see, which is pretty cool.

Restrictive challenges are very popular, in many games.