Sliver Snow Maddening Run

[DragonNexus3608]

Hey everyone! So after brainstorming a team. I decided to come up with

Male Byleth- Wyvern Lord

 Bernadetta- Sniper

Felix- Grappler

Yuri- Assassin

Ignatz- Wyvern Lord Archer

Petra- Falcon Knight

Ferdinand- Wyvern Lord

Lindhart- Bishop

Mercedes- Bishop

Lysithea- Gremory

Dorothea- Gremory

Caspar- Dancer

 

Chances are Caspar might fall off because of his base stats. Dancer could be a solution but I'm thinking of making him a Armored Knight to boost his defense just for Chapter 13: Hunting By Daybreak and then dropping him. For better dancer candidates  i did think of Marianne, Constance and Ingrid.

Marianne has sword boon and access to physic, Ingrid has high speed so combined with the sword avoid+ 20, she could dodge tank with access to Physic. Constance has bolting, ward and rescue, depending on map certain stats can be boosted to either help her offense (which isn't really gonna be used except maybe bolting) and her defense which is bad anyways. Except maybe her resistance

What do you guys think?

Edited July 31, 2020 by DragonNexus3608

[Hanes]

This all seems pretty good imo. If you want any tips or advice on classes, visit this amazing Three Houses website: https://fe3h.com/

Plus it has some info on maddening enemies and all that as well, so that way you will be set.

[Myssdii]

I'd drop a couple of mage units: in maddening, mages tend to fall off really hard in the late game, even units like Lysithea will fail to one-shot most enemies in the 4-3 final chapters. Mostly because tomes lack the might that combat arts do have, and mages will often fail to double unless it's an armor unit, unless you grind them in Pegasus Knight to help their speed.

You could have instead one or two units with magic combat arts and use weapons (sword!Dorothea, Ingrid, Marianne...) to keep the offense on the magic side of the spectrum, but deal way more damage that you would with gremories.

I'd not go for Wyvern Lord with Ignatz. You could instead do a Vengeance build with Bernie as a Bow Knight, and keep Ignatz as a Sniper. Ignatz needs Bowfaire to deal damage, and he lacks strong combat arts if he's not a Sniper.

Other than that, looks good ^^

[Barren]

I would say Marianne as a Dancer would be your best option since she has a boon in riding and can access movement +1 rather easily if you work hard enough. Plus her boon in swords and faith allows her to mix and match between her sword combat arts and physic heal support. Felix as a Grappler is pretty good as well. You could also use War Monk as a bridging class towards Grappler so you can get Brawl Avoid +20. I would also have him go Warmaster (if you can also work to get his Axe rank to at least B+) then learn Quick Riposte. You could have him go back to Grappler for FIF. Tomebreaker while situational can still be useful even for a filler ability.

Caspar as a adjutant seems fine. His personal ability can be useful early one but he does seem to drop off after late part 1 because other units would surpass him for sure. Everything else looks pretty good to me. If you plan on keeping Dorothea and Lysithea as Gremory, keep feeding them the magic stat buff items so they can actually one shot things.

One last thing and this tip is optional pending on how you feel about it, Ferdinand has a budding talent in Heavy Armor, you could certify him as a armored/fortress knight in case you need to give them the extra defense buffs. Along the way, you could give him Seal Speed for monster battles and/or weight -3 for reducing the weight penalty of his weapons

[DragonNexus3608]

8 hours ago, Myssdii said:

I'd drop a couple of mage units: in maddening, mages tend to fall off really hard in the late game, even units like Lysithea will fail to one-shot most enemies in the 4-3 final chapters. Mostly because tomes lack the might that combat arts do have, and mages will often fail to double unless it's an armor unit, unless you grind them in Pegasus Knight to help their speed.

You could have instead one or two units with magic combat arts and use weapons (sword!Dorothea, Ingrid, Marianne...) to keep the offense on the magic side of the spectrum, but deal way more damage that you would with gremories.

I'd not go for Wyvern Lord with Ignatz. You could instead do a Vengeance build with Bernie as a Bow Knight, and keep Ignatz as a Sniper. Ignatz needs Bowfaire to deal damage, and he lacks strong combat arts if he's not a Sniper.

Other than that, looks good ^^

Is Fortify necessary for Maddening? If it's not that essential then I can swap. For my last two playthroughs Fortify helped me alot. I could just use Concoctions on every character instead. 

For Ignatz the reason why I picked Wyvern Lord was to mainly boost his stats and be a mobile archer unit. For Bernadetta i thought Sniper would be better because her personal ablility + hunter volley

Edited July 31, 2020 by DragonNexus3608

[Myssdii]

17 minutes ago, DragonNexus3608 said:

Is Fortify necessary for Maddening? If it's not that essential then I can swap. For my last two playthroughs Fortify helped me alot. I could just use Concoctions on every character instead. 

For Ignatz the reason why I picked Wyvern Lord was to mainly boost his stats and be a mobile archer unit. 

If I had to make the choice, I'd keep Linhardt and Lysithea for double Warp and drop Fortify alongside Mercedes, but I don't value Fortify that much. My opinion is that if you use Warp/Stride strategies to beat maps faster, Fortify loses value. But if you don't intend to use Warp-skip mechanics too much and will clear all maps, you can keep Fortify.

Unless you stat-boost him a lot, Ignatz will never double in maddening, he'll do much more damage as a Sniper than a Wyvern Lord, mainly because of his incredible crit rate as a Sniper (better dex and luck modifiers and growths), and Hunter's Volley increased crit rate as well as automatic brave effect on anything. If you intend to use bows exclusively and you don't have Point-Blank Volley, stay Sniper. Movement is not that much of an issue if you carry two Warp units with you.

 

To make a numeric comparison between Sniper and Wyvern Lord (assuming same weapon and base strength):

WL +4 strength modifier

VS

Sniper +1 strength modifier
Sniper Bowfaire +5 might
Hunter's Volley +1 might

And Hunter's Volley negates any need for speed, so Sniper gains +5 dex and +3 luck compared to Wyvern Lord +1 dex, so you have a better crit rate as Sniper.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Myssdii

[DragonNexus3608]

12 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

This all seems pretty good imo. If you want any tips or advice on classes, visit this amazing Three Houses website: https://fe3h.com/

Plus it has some info on maddening enemies and all that as well, so that way you will be set.

Thank you so much!

[DragonNexus3608]

5 hours ago, Barren said:

I would say Marianne as a Dancer would be your best option since she has a boon in riding and can access movement +1 rather easily if you work hard enough. Plus her boon in swords and faith allows her to mix and match between her sword combat arts and physic heal support. Felix as a Grappler is pretty good as well. You could also use War Monk as a bridging class towards Grappler so you can get Brawl Avoid +20. I would also have him go Warmaster (if you can also work to get his Axe rank to at least B+) then learn Quick Riposte. You could have him go back to Grappler for FIF. Tomebreaker while situational can still be useful even for a filler ability.

Caspar as a adjutant seems fine. His personal ability can be useful early one but he does seem to drop off after late part 1 because other units would surpass him for sure. Everything else looks pretty good to me. If you plan on keeping Dorothea and Lysithea as Gremory, keep feeding them the magic stat buff items so they can actually one shot things.

One last thing and this tip is optional pending on how you feel about it, Ferdinand has a budding talent in Heavy Armor, you could certify him as a armored/fortress knight in case you need to give them the extra defense buffs. Along the way, you could give him Seal Speed for monster battles and/or weight -3 for reducing the weight penalty of his weapons

I agree with your thinking of Marianne. When it comes down to it It feels like either Ingrid or Marianne could work. But Marianne has Animal friend so theres that too.

I was thinking about class paths for Felix. Fighter to Brigand to Archer to War Monk then to Grappler or Warmaster. His skill slots would then be Strength+ 2, Death Blow, Hit+20, Brawl Avoid +20 then tomebreaker/quick riposte. Would that work?

I'm mainly worried about chapter 13 with Caspar, being that i'm playing new game plus, i could use claude's personal battalion to help me. I could boost his defense from Fortress Knight some tanking 

 

For Ferdinand, definitely. Seal Speed seems like it could work wonders plus the defense boost!

[Shadow Mir]

8 hours ago, Myssdii said:

I'd not go for Wyvern Lord with Ignatz. You could instead do a Vengeance build with Bernie as a Bow Knight, and keep Ignatz as a Sniper. Ignatz needs Bowfaire to deal damage, and he lacks strong combat arts if he's not a Sniper.

Doesn't Ignatz have a flying weakness anyway (which would discourage trying to get him into Wyvern Lord)?

8 hours ago, Myssdii said:

I'd drop a couple of mage units: in maddening, mages tend to fall off really hard in the late game, even units like Lysithea will fail to one-shot most enemies in the 4-3 final chapters. Mostly because tomes lack the might that combat arts do have, and mages will often fail to double unless it's an armor unit, unless you grind them in Pegasus Knight to help their speed.

You could have instead one or two units with magic combat arts and use weapons (sword!Dorothea, Ingrid, Marianne...) to keep the offense on the magic side of the spectrum, but deal way more damage that you would with gremories.

I'm personally extremely skeptical on this - building around magic combat arts means you have someone who has the durability of wet toilet paper trying to kill enemies at range 1. I shouldn't have to explain the problems with that. . .

Edited July 31, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[Bartozio]

2 hours ago, DragonNexus3608 said:

I'm mainly worried about chapter 13 with Caspar, being that i'm playing new game plus, i could use claude's personal battalion to help me. I could boost his defense from Fortress Knight some tanking 

Just wanted to point out that if you're not looking forward to chapter 13, there's a clear strategy by Rengor that uses very few units and resources:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdodbGxx_EI

I do respect wanting to play it normally, but just wanted to point out you don't need a full squad of good units for that chapter.

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Doesn't Ignatz have a flying weakness anyway (which would discourage trying to get him into Wyvern Lord)?

Yes. He could probably still get there if you really wanted him to, but it's not the easiest thing.

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'm personally extremely skeptical on this - building around magic combat arts means you have someone who has the durability of wet toilet paper trying to kill enemies at range 1. I shouldn't have to explain the problems with that. . .

I mean, if Bernadetta can make a Vengeance build work, why would a magic combat art build be any more difficult? Most units can tank at least one hit from enemies anyway, and in the right class they can canto away from any danger.

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, Bartozio said:

I mean, if Bernadetta can make a Vengeance build work, why would a magic combat art build be any more difficult? Most units can tank at least one hit from enemies anyway, and in the right class they can canto away from any danger.

It ain't like whatever you're attacking is just gonna stand there and take it, unless it's an archer or sniper. After all, Canto won't do you a lick of good when the user drops like a Shedinja that came in on Spikes or Stealth Rock, or got hit by *insert damaging attack from one of its 5 weaknesses here*. Also, there's a difference here - there are ways to lower Bernadetta's health safely, whereas magic combat art builds are more like a house of cards, especially when you have no backup options in case it's too dangerous to attack, like because you get one-rounded in retaliation, which you're risking with magic combat arts.

[Bartozio]

10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

It ain't like whatever you're attacking is just gonna stand there and take it, unless it's an archer or sniper. After all, Canto won't do you a lick of good when the user drops like a Shedinja that came in on Spikes or Stealth Rock, or got hit by *insert damaging attack from one of its 5 weaknesses here*. Also, there's a difference here - there are ways to lower Bernadetta's health safely, whereas magic combat art builds are more like a house of cards, especially when you have no backup options in case it's too dangerous to attack, like because you get one-rounded in retaliation, which you're risking with magic combat arts.

I think you're overestimating how hard enemies hit in Maddening. Getting out of one shot territory is doable for most units. Besides, the whole point of magic combat arts is to one shot enemies with it. If your units can't reach that, there no real reason to use them over something like a sniper or a grappler.

[Barren]

19 hours ago, DragonNexus3608 said:

I agree with your thinking of Marianne. When it comes down to it It feels like either Ingrid or Marianne could work. But Marianne has Animal friend so theres that too.

I was thinking about class paths for Felix. Fighter to Brigand to Archer to War Monk then to Grappler or Warmaster. His skill slots would then be Strength+ 2, Death Blow, Hit+20, Brawl Avoid +20 then tomebreaker/quick riposte. Would that work?

I'm mainly worried about chapter 13 with Caspar, being that i'm playing new game plus, i could use claude's personal battalion to help me. I could boost his defense from Fortress Knight some tanking 

 

For Ferdinand, definitely. Seal Speed seems like it could work wonders plus the defense boost!

That might be stretching out his development a bit too thin because that would suggest that you have to train him in brawling, axes, bow and faith. Granted he doesn't have a bane in axes or faith. However if you're goal is for him to go Grappler then it sounds more feasible I think. You could have him go D+ in Bow and Axe Rank for the minimum requirement for Brigand + Archer respectively. For Faith get it up to Rank C if you're going for minimum require again while primarily work on his brawling. Once you do that, then Grappler should be attainable pending on how much you're tutoring him. Going for Warmaster would be awesome but then you have to jack up his axe proficiency to at least B+ in order to get there. It all depends on your tutoring route honestly. If you're willing to drop archer then Warmaster is more possible for him. If you're willing to drop Warmaster, then Grappler would be the more logical end game class for him.

I'm currently going to try Felix as a Sniper since he has a boon in bows and his strength and speed growths are already pretty good to begin with. Plus his dex could use some work so that's what I'm currently building him for on Crimson Flower

I think that for Caspar if you want to at least keep him somewhat leveled up, then something like Fortress Knight or even Grappler for him can be okay and you can just keep him as a guard adjutant from there if you're replacing him with Felix

Ferdinand can be even more of a tank if you give him the Ochain Shield but that's on any other route besides Crimson Flower however. There is Hexlock Shield if you want a good amount of physical and magic protection at least. Or if you're going for a full evade build then evasion ring + the innate confidence ability and avoid +10 works wonders

[Shadow Mir]

On 8/1/2020 at 6:36 AM, Bartozio said:

I think you're overestimating how hard enemies hit in Maddening. Getting out of one shot territory is doable for most units. Besides, the whole point of magic combat arts is to one shot enemies with it. If your units can't reach that, there no real reason to use them over something like a sniper or a grappler.

That just cements the idea that they're worthless the moment that stops, no?

On 7/30/2020 at 10:23 PM, DragonNexus3608 said:

Caspar- Dancer

I'll warn you, Caspar has low charm (both a low base and a low growth), and thus will have a hard time getting the charm needed to win.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Shadow Mir
Typos suck

[Bartozio]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

That just cements the idea that they're worthless the moment that stops, no?

But useful while they still do that.

[DragonNexus3608]

On 8/2/2020 at 10:35 AM, Shadow Mir said:

That just cements the idea that they're worthless the moment that stops, no?

I'll warn you, Caspar has low charm (both a low base and a low growth), and thus will have a hard time getting the charm needed to win.

If I didn't want to use Caspar, should I use him as a Fortress Knight tank for chapter 13?

[Barren]

7 hours ago, DragonNexus3608 said:

If I didn't want to use Caspar, should I use him as a Fortress Knight tank for chapter 13?

I think that would be okay. At least with Born Fighter adjacent enemies will suffer a -10 avoid. Of course if you have him and Mercedes recruited for Silver Snow, he can at least take a hit from the Death Knight pending on how well leveled he is at this point. His HP and defense would need all the help he can get if you were to do that quest battle

[Bartozio]

13 hours ago, DragonNexus3608 said:

If I didn't want to use Caspar, should I use him as a Fortress Knight tank for chapter 13?

That or Wyvern knight are probably your best bets. Be careful with Fortress knight though, since while it'll allow Caspar to tank enemies pretty well (if you give him a good shield and defensive battelion he can become near invincible) it doesn't protect Dorethea from the enemies you aggro'd.

[SumG]

I'm not wild about your suite of mages.  I don't see much benefit to using two Bishops.  Having good healing is necessary, but this is overkill, and neither unit will be a great damage dealer.  I'd say pick one of Mercedes and Linhardt to keep and bench the other.  Dorothea is an OK mage, but really pales in comparison to either Constance or Hapi.  And worse it's impossible to get Dorothea into either of the DLC magic classes.  I'd also consider putting Lysithea in Valkyrie, but I value the extra attack range.

I don't really see the point of Ignatz on a Silver Snow run.  Ignatz's best trait is that he gets a bunch of good Rally abilities early.  That's great if you're playing Verdant Wind, but if you're playing another route by the time you're able to recruit him your other units should be set.  And Ignatz's strength is really poor, especially on Maddening.  I'd urge you to drop Ignatz and pick up Leonie instead (she is a powerhouse Falcon Knight).  Personally, I prefer Petra as a Wyvern Lord, but she should still be great as a Falcon Knight.

And I'd ditch Caspar as well.  He's just... not good enough.  As to who to replace him with...Catherine is solid enough, though you already have an assassin.  Balthus makes a good War Master, but you already have one planned for.  Marianne is the one of the better Dancer candidates.  Ingrid is a really good anti-mage flier, but can be a bit on the weak side for maddening.  Shamir is another solid sniper option. There's a bunch of solid options, though no stand out ones, and depends a bit on your playstyle.  But I'd avoid a fifth mage.

So my suggestions would be:

One of Lindhardt/Mercedes out, Dorothea out -> Hapi, Constance in

Ignatz out-> Leonie in

Caspar out -> Dealer's choice in.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

17 hours ago, DragonNexus3608 said:

If I didn't want to use Caspar, should I use him as a Fortress Knight tank for chapter 13?

If you just want him for chapter 13, try raising his Lance rank on the back-burner. If you get him to B, he gets Swordbreaker, which is very helpful to hit the Thieves and Assassins. Plus, he can use the Brave Lance at that rank.

[DragonNexus3608]

On 8/5/2020 at 4:27 PM, SumG said:

I'm not wild about your suite of mages.  I don't see much benefit to using two Bishops.  Having good healing is necessary, but this is overkill, and neither unit will be a great damage dealer.  I'd say pick one of Mercedes and Linhardt to keep and bench the other.  Dorothea is an OK mage, but really pales in comparison to either Constance or Hapi.  And worse it's impossible to get Dorothea into either of the DLC magic classes.  I'd also consider putting Lysithea in Valkyrie, but I value the extra attack range.

I don't really see the point of Ignatz on a Silver Snow run.  Ignatz's best trait is that he gets a bunch of good Rally abilities early.  That's great if you're playing Verdant Wind, but if you're playing another route by the time you're able to recruit him your other units should be set.  And Ignatz's strength is really poor, especially on Maddening.  I'd urge you to drop Ignatz and pick up Leonie instead (she is a powerhouse Falcon Knight).  Personally, I prefer Petra as a Wyvern Lord, but she should still be great as a Falcon Knight.

And I'd ditch Caspar as well.  He's just... not good enough.  As to who to replace him with...Catherine is solid enough, though you already have an assassin.  Balthus makes a good War Master, but you already have one planned for.  Marianne is the one of the better Dancer candidates.  Ingrid is a really good anti-mage flier, but can be a bit on the weak side for maddening.  Shamir is another solid sniper option. There's a bunch of solid options, though no stand out ones, and depends a bit on your playstyle.  But I'd avoid a fifth mage.

So my suggestions would be:

One of Lindhardt/Mercedes out, Dorothea out -> Hapi, Constance in

Ignatz out-> Leonie in

Caspar out -> Dealer's choice in.

Interesting response. If I wanted to make Mercedes the main healer, could I get away with making Lindhardt the dancer instead?

For a flier would Leonie work?

How would I build a flier? should I even go for Death Blow and Hit+20? 

Would Valkyrie be a good final class for Lysithea or is Dark Knight/Gremory better?

 

[DragonNexus3608]

On 8/5/2020 at 2:17 PM, Bartozio said:

That or Wyvern knight are probably your best bets. Be careful with Fortress knight though, since while it'll allow Caspar to tank enemies pretty well (if you give him a good shield and defensive battelion he can become near invincible) it doesn't protect Dorethea from the enemies you aggro'd.

Thats right! I just remembered Dorothea spawns right next to him.

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 8/5/2020 at 1:27 PM, SumG said:

Dorothea is an OK mage, but really pales in comparison to either Constance or Hapi.  And worse it's impossible to get Dorothea into either of the DLC magic classes.

This isn't even remotely true. Dark Flier has a meager requirement of C flying (same as wyvern rider), which takes just 300 exp to get to. And if you're willing to either reset after failed certifications or burn extra seals, you can certify for it with flying at D, which is just 100 exp, practically nothing (even with a weakness on Maddening, it takes 7 weeks of passive goal-setting to get there. Or you can get there near-instantly with sauna + statue bonus + professor expertise instruction late in tier 2). Valkyrie is a bit tougher but still not bad at all.

Weaknesses may make PCs less optimum for certain classes (in that they cut into time spent building authority etc.) but they never rule them out. Yuri can get to Wyvern Rider/Lord in a timely manner (he's weak in axes, flying, AND lances), which says much about how you shouldn't let one weakness put you off a build.

(I also don't agree with Constance or Hapi being better myself but that's a separate issue.)

[SumG]

On 8/8/2020 at 12:16 AM, DragonNexus3608 said:

Interesting response. If I wanted to make Mercedes the main healer, could I get away with making Lindhardt the dancer instead?

For a flier would Leonie work?

How would I build a flier? should I even go for Death Blow and Hit+20? 

Would Valkyrie be a good final class for Lysithea or is Dark Knight/Gremory better?

Anyone can be a good dancer once in the class, but the trick is getting into the class.  Lindhardt has a low base Charm and a low Charm growth, so you might struggle to win the dancing competition with him.

Falcon Knight Leonie is my favorite build for her that I've tried.  Get Death Blow, Darting Blow (until her nuts speed makes the skill irrelevant), Alert Stance/Alert Stance+, ance Prowess, and an eventual eye to getting Lancefaire.  From there you have a fair amount of flexibility to do what you want.  Hit+20 is fine, but as it is you'll want to have her master two other Intermediate classes (Brigand and Pegasus Knight, so you might not want to delay getting into advanced classes to get that ability.

For Lysithea, I actually do like Valkryie over Dark Knight and Gremory.  Dark Knight only gets +3 Magic over Valkyrie, which I will happily trade for an extra 1 range on spells on a nuke like Lysithea.  Gremory gets some extra spell utility that Lysithea can make use of, but is unfortunately foot-locked.  Both the classes are fine and defensible picks, but I prefer the mobility and range of Valkyrie.  And the class mastery ability (Uncanny Blow) is a good equip too.

[Barren]

1 hour ago, SumG said:

Anyone can be a good dancer once in the class, but the trick is getting into the class.  Lindhardt has a low base Charm and a low Charm growth, so you might struggle to win the dancing competition with him.

Falcon Knight Leonie is my favorite build for her that I've tried.  Get Death Blow, Darting Blow (until her nuts speed makes the skill irrelevant), Alert Stance/Alert Stance+, ance Prowess, and an eventual eye to getting Lancefaire.  From there you have a fair amount of flexibility to do what you want.  Hit+20 is fine, but as it is you'll want to have her master two other Intermediate classes (Brigand and Pegasus Knight, so you might not want to delay getting into advanced classes to get that ability.

For Lysithea, I actually do like Valkryie over Dark Knight and Gremory.  Dark Knight only gets +3 Magic over Valkyrie, which I will happily trade for an extra 1 range on spells on a nuke like Lysithea.  Gremory gets some extra spell utility that Lysithea can make use of, but is unfortunately foot-locked.  Both the classes are fine and defensible picks, but I prefer the mobility and range of Valkyrie.  And the class mastery ability (Uncanny Blow) is a good equip too.

I would second that for Lysithea as well. Though Dark Knight has better overall stat growths than Valkyrie, at least with Valkyrie you have the extra range in your spells. Though in fairness, DKs having 7 move and regular range is equal to 6 move and 1 extra spell range. Uncanny Blow is super useful and Valkyrie can be for some people, a bridging class to get to Dark Knight in case you would rather get the extra damage. Though just beware that not all maps are kind to horseback units as you may have to dismount at times and it pretty much undo the work you put into riding. It may or may not be a deal breaker but something to keep in mind