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Path of Radiance Maniac Tier List Discussion

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2 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

You make it sound as though if I lose Oscar or Kieran late, that's as crippling, if not more so than losing Titania would be early on. That's bull. The earliest chapters in FE games tend to be the hardest ones, because you don't have the tools that you'd have later on. Even if those other characters you mentioned outclass her later on, that ain't enough to upend the fact that Titania is top dog in the hardest part of the game.

ay imao I literally just said that

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13 minutes ago, Crime and Punishment said:

Titania is hardly being competed against in all those first chapters, and it really takes Oscar a while to get going unless you're deliberately going out of your way to get him all those kills and Exp, which makes it easier to neglect the rest of your team (especially detrimental in MM, where there are like twice the amount of enemies). He definitely ends up better, but my point is that, at the end of the day, no one is competing against Titania for like 8 chapters straight, while Marcia/Oscar/Kieran/Jill are all competing against each other past that with the only real difference between them is having or not having flight.

Titania is easily the best character in the game in probably the hardest part of the game. You essentially need her, while past these points of the game, you can wing it with other characters and not really need to have to use Marcia, Oscar, Kieran or Jill.

I also don't recall BEXP being that huge until that jailbreak chapter (assuming you do things right)...

I dont think a prepromote carrying you through the first 8 chapters with 12 base strength makes them the best in the game, I think thats where we fundamentally disagree!  The games built to have a unit hold the trainees hand during the beginning like FE 7 and FE 8 but it doesnt make Titania the best unit for the rest of the game thats 20 more chapters of Maniac mode.  And its totally not true, you can not wing a Ironman play through on maniac mode with just any characters, you need those 4 mentioned, Im not saying Titania is trash obviously but dont you think you're over valuing a unit for being necessary through the early game? 

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34 minutes ago, Crime and Punishment said:

ay imao I literally just said that

I did start posting before you did, to be fair (or at least, I think I did). It took me a while to think of a phrasing that I consider satisfactory. And in the meantime, I was probably fooling around on other tabs as well.

15 minutes ago, FE Dragun said:

I dont think a prepromote carrying you through the first 8 chapters with 12 base strength makes them the best in the game, I think thats where we fundamentally disagree!  The games built to have a unit hold the trainees hand during the beginning like FE 7 and FE 8 but it doesnt make Titania the best unit for the rest of the game thats 20 more chapters of Maniac mode.  And its totally not true, you can not wing a Ironman play through on maniac mode with just any characters, you need those 4 mentioned, Im not saying Titania is trash obviously but dont you think you're over valuing a unit for being necessary through the early game? 

Seth is still considered the best unit in Sacred Stones despite that. Admittedly, Sacred Stones is one of the easiest FE games, but still.... At any rate, you still have to get through the earlygame before you can get to the later portions of the game.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

I did start posting before you did, to be fair (or at least, I think I did). It took me a while to think of a phrasing that I consider satisfactory. And in the meantime, I was probably fooling around on other tabs as well.

Seth is still considered the best unit in Sacred Stones despite that. Admittedly, Sacred Stones is one of the easiest FE games, but still....

 Also this is Maniac mode with Ironman being heavily involved in my decision making since that is technically the way the game works, and this is my thread.  And yes if you get Titania killed in chapter 4 you are screwed but if Ike dies you lose the game so by that logic Ike is also the best. This game is so damn hard that not having Kieren or Oscar will be the death of you in late game and Titania doesnt need to kill everything to make it through those chapters she is there to clean up what the rookies cant. If Oscar dies Kieren and Ike become worse (Ike almost Useless unless he got maxed strength). So yes You cant win the game without Titania from chapters 1-7 but I dont think that makes her the best character. And Seth would get rocked In manaic mode that games too easy I think Titania could easily be Number 1 or 2 on hard mode but Maniac she just gets rocked late, you truly need every stat maxed out to perform at a high level.

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2 hours ago, FE Dragun said:

 Also this is Maniac mode with Ironman being heavily involved in my decision making since that is technically the way the game works, and this is my thread.  And yes if you get Titania killed in chapter 4 you are screwed but if Ike dies you lose the game so by that logic Ike is also the best. This game is so damn hard that not having Kieren or Oscar will be the death of you in late game and Titania doesnt need to kill everything to make it through those chapters she is there to clean up what the rookies cant. If Oscar dies Kieren and Ike become worse (Ike almost Useless unless he got maxed strength). So yes You cant win the game without Titania from chapters 1-7 but I dont think that makes her the best character. And Seth would get rocked In manaic mode that games too easy I think Titania could easily be Number 1 or 2 on hard mode but Maniac she just gets rocked late, you truly need every stat maxed out to perform at a high level.

One, I don't give a damn about ironman runs. It does nothing to change my viewpoint. Second, you're exaggerating Oscar's importance. Third, you're too fixated on the lategame and SHINY GREEN NUMBERS. Anyway, the fact that you stated that you had Oscar at level 14 by chapter 8 tells me you deliberately favored him. He starts at level 3 and would need two levels a chapter at least to get there when two of those chapters are heavy on axes (factoring in the fact that he's not available in chapters 3 and 4). That sounds rather dicey when even Ike, who's advantaged in those chapters, isn't doing so well.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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9 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

One, I don't give a damn about ironman runs. It does nothing to change my viewpoint. Second, you're exaggerating Oscar's importance. Third, you're too fixated on the lategame and SHINY GREEN NUMBERS. Anyway, the fact that you stated that you had Oscar at level 14 by chapter 8 tells me you deliberately favored him. He starts at level 3 and would need two levels a chapter at least to get there when two of those chapters are heavy on axes (factoring in the fact that he's not available in chapters 3 and 4). That sounds rather dicey when even Ike, who's advantaged in those chapters, isn't doing so well.

You just seem ignorant Im just stating thats the way I do my tier list its an opinion on a videogame lets maybe be more civil. Out of curiosity how many Maniac playthroughs have you done?

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8 hours ago, FE Dragun said:

you truly need every stat maxed out to perform at a high level.

List of all stats that Oscar caps on average at Lv.20/20:

  • Skl

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2 hours ago, ping said:

List of all stats that Oscar caps on average at Lv.20/20:

  • Skl

List of all stats that Titania caps on average at Lv.20/20: nothing and not even close

Id appreciate you trying to provide more view points rather than just trying to discredit mine. And if you think you've said enough in favor of Titania over Oscar leave it to the other member's to decide plenty of other characters to discuss, such as my 6-10 selections

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12 hours ago, FE Dragun said:

You just seem ignorant Im just stating thats the way I do my tier list its an opinion on a videogame lets maybe be more civil. Out of curiosity how many Maniac playthroughs have you done?

>"Let's be more civil"
>Uses an insult to start the same sentence

. . .Are you serious? Anyway, it stands to reason I'll take issue with your arguments because they either don't have much of a leg to stand on, don't make sense, or both. Like with Ike, for example. Him being locked to swords disqualifies him from being the best in the game, because it means he has no range (aside from Ragnell, which doesn't come until the end of the game), and is frequently facing WTD. As an aside, I don't buy Muarim being a top 10 unit either. As a laguz, he has the same issues as Ike, except he also has to deal with the downtime that comes with being a laguz (ergo, the fact that once he reverts, he's helpless until he transforms again), as well as being locked to a weapon that can't improve, which really bites when beorc start making the upgrade to silver weapons.

 

Edited by Shadow Mir

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From what I gather, the idea and concept of this thread is an Iron Man Tier List. Carving out the differences between Iron Man and Efficiency or Low Turn could give this actually some value, as Iron Man strategies aren't as established and discussed. Explaining which chapter massively differ and require a total different approach, a whole guideline ha to be established before knowing which units become better or wose.

As of now, this isn't going anywhere. There is a fundamental disagreement of what makes a unit useful. Those tanky units are surely good at surviving, but all the crucial units that are mandantory for swiftly winning are disregarded.

Edited by Aircalipoor

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12 hours ago, Aircalipoor said:

From what I gather, the idea and concept of this thread is an Iron Man Tier List. Carving out the differences between Iron Man and Efficiency or Low Turn could give this actually some value, as Iron Man strategies aren't as established and discussed. Explaining which chapter massively differ and require a total different approach, a whole guideline ha to be established before knowing which units become better or wose.

As of now, this isn't going anywhere. There is a fundamental disagreement of what makes a unit useful. Those tanky units are surely good at surviving, but all the crucial units that are mandantory for swiftly winning are disregarded.

Well I think when discussing Viability personally I think you should include an Ironman mentality, because Marcia or Jill are amazing and can fly all the way to the objective and or boss, then complete the chapter easily, but if you fail you just restart so that's my issue, restarting is kind of cheating when discussing how good a unit is if you have to risk getting them killed for them to actually be good. It doesn't change what they are capable of but you most certainly add more of a chess strategy and really dissect your Units down to who is the most useful. And swiftly winning on Maniac mode is a death sentence unless you are in late game and have good EXP all around, the EXP is crucial due to the enemies having really high bases and all silver with 2 range, So I think Maniac Mode swift Wins are primarily out of the question until late game chapter 24 on something like that.

--

  

14 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

>"Let's be more civil"
>Uses an insult to start the same sentence

. . .Are you serious? Anyway, it stands to reason I'll take issue with your arguments because they either don't have much of a leg to stand on, don't make sense, or both. Like with Ike, for example. Him being locked to swords disqualifies him from being the best in the game, because it means he has no range (aside from Ragnell, which doesn't come until the end of the game), and is frequently facing WTD. As an aside, I don't buy Muarim being a top 10 unit either. As a laguz, he has the same issues as Ike, except he also has to deal with the downtime that comes with being a laguz (ergo, the fact that once he reverts, he's helpless until he transforms again), as well as being locked to a weapon that can't improve, which really bites when beorc start making the upgrade to silver weapons.

 

I feel like I put a solid case up for Oscar over Titania, its fine you disagree but you are completely disregarding the points I put up, so to say I don't have much of a leg to stand on, doesn't make sense, or both, seems Ignorant to me but maybe what Im saying makes absolutely no sense and Oscar is bottom 5,  its debatable is all im saying, and I never said Ike was best im confused by your wording here but Ike is doo doo and not even top 20 or 25 most likely, which sucks because he is the coolest main character in the series. Maurim is very debatable and I would down grade him on Hard but Maniac, If you are Using Maurim (surely you gave him the Demi Band so transforming is not an issue) he is very basic but his bases and Join time just make him super usable throughout most of the game. As a unit you dont need to train and hits pretty hard as well as being a potential front liner he easily fits into a team, also the lack of forging on him is kind of a buff on maniac because I always find that you can never forge for everyone, and there as so many enemies with high bases you cant tear through without maxed out damage weapons so they dont last long, but its debatable whether Id put Volke or Geoffrey at 10 but Maurim grabs the spot for the reasons I mentioned, If Volke could do any Damage or didnt get Held back till CH 19 I would bump him way up.

Edited by Parrhesia

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