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Underrated Battle Tools?


What do you think is the most slept-on tool in the game?  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think is the most slept-on tool in the game?

    • Gradivus
      3
    • Resonant White Magic
      0
    • Banshee
      0
    • Silence
      4
    • Swordbreaker
      0
    • Axebreaker
      1
    • Lancebreaker
      0
    • Smash
      0
    • Impregnable Wall
      4
    • Grounder
      0
    • Pavise
      0


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I've been experiencing some 3H burnout lately, and while I don't mind it too much because I just got Catherine Full Body, I thought a way to get over it might be to learn about other people's style of play, like what they rely on in battle, and try things differently from how I tend to play.

So I came up with this thread because I wanna know what people like using in battle, and think other people don't use/talk about/judge highly, but they should. Basically, with the exception of actual characters, anything that can be employed in battle is up for discussion. The poll is to see if there's any consensus over what things are underrated. There are only two options for now, but I'll be checking this thread regularly, and adding in any suggestions that people leave in the comments. If you do leave a suggestion in the comments, definitely let me know why you think it's useful, but people don't utilise it/praise it as much as they should. I'm thinking in terms of Maddening/Classic NG runs, but as long as other players mention it first I don't mind considering other difficulty modes.

For example:

My first pick for underrated battle tool is Gradivus. 

Facts:

  • Stats: 17 Mt, 90 Hit, 10 Crit, 1-2 Rng, 30 Uses, requires A rank Lances
  • Obtainment requirements: chance drop from beast encountered in red! battle + A+ professor level + 10 Mythril + 2000G

Reasons it's underrated:

  • As you can see above, it's quite difficult to obtain 
  • This means that bad luck can ruin your chances of getting it for the whole run, and its rarity means that it's not particularly high on players' priority list anyway.
  • You'd also need another 10 Mythril and 2,500G to repair its 30 uses, so it has to be used fairly sparingly.

Reasons it shouldn't be underrated:

  • There's no better use of the Mythril that you do get IMO.
  • Two easily available paralogues (Sothis' + Hilda's/Edelgard's) can get you to 10 Mythril with planning/luck, and you get a couple Mythril from monastery quests in case they don't quite make it. 
  • Save-reloading just one red! battle will 100% give you the opportunity to get it (although I get why people might be against that in principle).
  • Bar Failnaught, it's the highest-Mt ranged weapon in the game, and it's also more accurate than most lances and almost all ranged weapons.
  • You're bound to have at least one lance user in your party unless it's a challenge run, so basically once you get it it's always worth bringing.
  • I tend to have my late-game Falcon Knight go around baiting things/doing chip with it - it gives them a Player Phase and an Enemy Phase even without using Retribution and the like.

My second pick is Resonant White Magic.

Facts:

  • Stats: 8 Mt, 3 uses, Rng: Gr fe16 square 3x2.png
  • Users: Seiros Sacred Monks, Church Soldiers, Alliance Physicians, Cethleann Monks

Reasons it's underrated:

  • Its most available user, Seiros Sacred Monks, is a crap battalion. Its other users, which are locked to certain routes/conditions, are all outclassed at the points where they become usable.
  • The unit positioning required to make this gambit more useful than Heal can be quite difficult. 
  • Physic and Fortify are normally better uses of an action

Reasons it shouldn't be underrated:

  • I don't actually think this gambit or its users are that good, but I use it a lot in the early game. Lacking Physic and reliable offensive gambits, my units often end up crowded together in order to defend a chokepoint or surround and kill a unit, meaning they're in the right position for the gambit to be used well.
  • My early game healer won't have more than 5 uses of Heal - this gambit is at worst an extra 3 uses of Heal, that could heal multiple units and also train authority rank. 

 

Obviously feel free to disagree with the above analysis as well - I'll remove anything from the poll if enough people think an option isn't underrated. But yeah, looking forward to the comments!

Edited by haarhaarhaar
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Gradivus has always been something of an urban legend to me- I’ve heard it exists, but I’ve never seen it. 
 

Seriously though, the one time I almost did get it I left the rusted Gradivus on Edelgard during chapter 11. Always unequip Edelgard and Hubert before SS kids.

I agree with resonant white magic being useful for the early game, I’ve used it a fair bit that way myself.
 

In terms of what I find to be overlooked and underrated? Hmm... I don’t see people talk about Banshee very much- early game it acts as a mini gambit that just completely shuts down foes without having to kill them, which is really handy, especially if you’re charm is too low to reasonably attempt a gambit. Idk if it’s really underrated though, I just don’t see people talking about it. C rank for the 2 people who learn it is pretty good too- it can come really early and be useful for quite a while besides.

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I've never gotten Gradivus either. I agree with the OP that it seems pretty good if you do get your hands on it, though I'm not really a fan of doing auxillary fights in this or other FEs, it feels like grinding.

Resonant White Magic I actively try and avoid. I'd much rather have offensive gambits with their ability to cause rattle, or Stride, as far as earlygame gambits go. I generally don't find I run out of Heal even on early maps. And obviously later on it just gets completely outclassed by other options. Cethleann Monks I find one of the most worthless "major" battalions in the game (i.e. excluding the obvious filler ones like Bandits and Youths).

I agree with Banshee; it's very solid and not talked about much. It locks down pretty much every enemy earlygame, and even later there's a handful of classes it continues to contain, especially if you have tools to extend your Banshee-caster's range.

Silence also feels a touch slept on. With numerous uses at range 10, it's great for controlling a mage at long range who you can't reach this turn. This can be used to neuter certain enemy formations, as well as Bolting which is very dangerous in this game due to its high crit.

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The first one that springs to mind for me is akin to your description for Resonant White Magic:  the combat art Smash.  I think it gets discounted because it's a combat art that a number of units start the game with (learned at D axes), but it is tremendously useful in the maddening early game.  It's expensive from a durability standpoint, but it gives a bonus 20 hit% (as well as some extra might), and that is vital given how inaccurate axes are.  When people talk about combat arts, the Brave Arts (Swift Strikes, Hunter's Volley, Point Blank Volley) get most of the love, while Curved Shot is probably the most utilitarian combat art in the game (and deservedly so).  But Smash is a tremendously useful tool in the early game.  Particularly on my NG run, I found myself using the combat art regularly to ensure killing an enemy unit near the end of a turn cycle.

The other one thing(s) that I'm partial to that tends not to get much love are the primary weapon triangle enforcing abilities: Swordbreaker, Lancebreaker, and Axebreaker.   It seems as though many players here lean heavily on strategies that primarily use only one or two physical weapon classes (typically lances for Swift Strikes/Vengeance and maybe bows for Hunter's Volley), but if you actually use a diversified array of units it is isn't difficult to ensure that you always have the weapon triangle advantage, and +30 Hit/Avoid is a huge benefit in landing hits and avoiding damage.  And using these abilities in dodgetank builds, particularly in conjunction with Alert Stance/Alert Stance+, takes those units from evasive to unhittable.  If you build a sword-, a lance-, and an axe-dodgetank, you're party can bait out just about any physical attack in the game.

Bowbreaker and Tomebreaker (and I supposed FIstbreaker even though it doesn't practically exist) are fine, but I've never found them nearly as useful as the main weapon triangle skills.  Bowbreaker is unnecessary since any melee character can avoid counterattacks just by fighting archers at one range and Tomebreaker is usually not required to allow gauntlet-based units kill mages in one round of attacks.

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How about the Impregnable Wall gambit? Cast it on your bait units just before enemy phase starts, and watch them not die. Lure the Death Knight off his cozy Avoid tile. It's okay for them not to do much damage on enemy phase, because of how many other tools you have to kill foes on player phase. And you can get it from buyable D-rank battalions.

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10 hours ago, Anathaco said:

In terms of what I find to be overlooked and underrated? Hmm... I don’t see people talk about Banshee very much- early game it acts as a mini gambit that just completely shuts down foes without having to kill them, which is really handy, especially if you’re charm is too low to reasonably attempt a gambit. Idk if it’s really underrated though, I just don’t see people talking about it. C rank for the 2 people who learn it is pretty good too- it can come really early and be useful for quite a while besides.

9 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I agree with Banshee; it's very solid and not talked about much. It locks down pretty much every enemy earlygame, and even later there's a handful of classes it continues to contain, especially if you have tools to extend your Banshee-caster's range.

Yeah I think Banshee is quite a good one for this thread. Totally agree with how useful it is. I guess because not everyone has the DLC, and otherwise it's just CF-locked, that might be why it doesn't get talked about?

9 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Silence also feels a touch slept on. With numerous uses at range 10, it's great for controlling a mage at long range who you can't reach this turn. This can be used to neuter certain enemy formations, as well as Bolting which is very dangerous in this game due to its high crit

Yeah, I think I agree. I don't find Silence essential, but I haven't gotten to BL's run of siege tome users yet so let's see. This is also the first FE game I've played where the Silence effect is readily available (in fact, way more available than necessary because of the shortage of mage enemies), so it'd be nice to strategise with it more.

9 hours ago, SumG said:

the combat art Smash.  I think it gets discounted because it's a combat art that a number of units start the game with (learned at D axes), but it is tremendously useful in the maddening early game.  It's expensive from a durability standpoint, but it gives a bonus 20 hit% (as well as some extra might), and that is vital given how inaccurate axes are.  When people talk about combat arts, the Brave Arts (Swift Strikes, Hunter's Volley, Point Blank Volley) get most of the love, while Curved Shot is probably the most utilitarian combat art in the game (and deservedly so).  But Smash is a tremendously useful tool in the early game.  Particularly on my NG run, I found myself using the combat art regularly to ensure killing an enemy unit near the end of a turn cycle.

I completely forgot about Smash, and I run it on pretty much all my axe users right through the game because it's overall one of the best axe CAs. Nice recommend.

9 hours ago, SumG said:

Swordbreaker, Lancebreaker, and Axebreaker.   It seems as though many players here lean heavily on strategies that primarily use only one or two physical weapon classes (typically lances for Swift Strikes/Vengeance and maybe bows for Hunter's Volley), but if you actually use a diversified array of units it is isn't difficult to ensure that you always have the weapon triangle advantage, and +30 Hit/Avoid is a huge benefit in landing hits and avoiding damage.  And using these abilities in dodgetank builds, particularly in conjunction with Alert Stance/Alert Stance+, takes those units from evasive to unhittable.  If you build a sword-, a lance-, and an axe-dodgetank, you're party can bait out just about any physical attack in the game.

I added these in as individual options, because I think people are gonna see some difference between them. For example, I find Axebreaker a bit more situational than Sword/Lance breaker, because Wyvern Lords are the only axe units late-game sword users won't dodge confidently anyway. It's still much better than Bowbreaker/Tomebreaker though (which I personally have never found worth equipping). And yeah, the major three are very useful skills, although I guess if you're used to the weapon triangle system then you won't think of them as slept on.

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

How about the Impregnable Wall gambit? Cast it on your bait units just before enemy phase starts, and watch them not die. Lure the Death Knight off his cozy Avoid tile. It's okay for them not to do much damage on enemy phase, because of how many other tools you have to kill foes on player phase. And you can get it from buyable D-rank battalions.

I only really started using this in my previous run, and by god does it make things easier. To the point where it felt like I was cheating, watching four grapplers gang up on Linhardt and between them chip only half his health. And I created that situation on purpose just to test the gambit out. Anyway yeah this gambit is an unbelievable asset, which definitely gets undersold sometimes.

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10 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said:

There's no better use of the Mythril that you do get IMO.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I'd generally prefer to use my mythril on some of the sacred weapons. While I'd rather have one fully repaired Gradivus than one fully repaired Inexhaustible, for the mythril cost of forging/repairing Gradivus once, I can repair a sacred weapon three times over and have one mythril left over. This might be a matter of taste and play-style, though. I do generally tend to prefer consistent and reliable options to more powerful tools that I have to use sparingly.

9 hours ago, SumG said:

the combat art Smash.

I've always got the impression that people tend to rate Smash highly, at least on Maddening. I know I do.

10 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Silence also feels a touch slept on.

Agreed. I love Silence. Except when I think that a silenced enemy can't do anything and then it turns out to have a batallion that I didn't check for and then it gambits me to death, which has happened way more often than I'd care to admit.

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

How about the Impregnable Wall gambit? Cast it on your bait units just before enemy phase starts, and watch them not die.

I've never used this one myself. I really should try it out next time I do a play-through.

I will nominate Grounder, the sword combat art. The big question with this is why would you bother with a combat art that's strong against flying enemies when you only have three available slots and you probably want all your sword units to be carrying a bow anyway? For me, the answer is that I don't bring it for the effectiveness against flying; I bring it for its accuracy. At +20 hit, the only sword combat arts that can equal or better it are Subdue, Windsweep, and Foudroyant Strike, which are all far less readily available. While accuracy on swords isn't usable a big problem, there are some occasions where you absolutely need to be able to hit reliably and getting an extra 10% hit compared to wrath strike can be a big deal. This is especially true in the early game, and since you pick up Grounder at sword rank C, you have it early enough to really make a difference.

My honourable mentions are Stealth, the Spear of Assal, and Recover, but I'm not really sure how underrated they all are, so I'm not going to bother writing up a defense of them unless people genuinely think they're useless.

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9 hours ago, lenticular said:

I've always got the impression that people tend to rate Smash highly, at least on Maddening. I know I do.

Perhaps, it's tough to know what the consensus opinion on each ability is.  My perception is that Smash is that Smash tends to get taken for granted when talking about Maddening strategy.  People will mention the strength of the Swift Strikes/Hunter's Volley, they'll suggest that everyone picks up a bow to learn Curved Shot, but they typically won't note Smash specifically (instead lumping all other combat arts together under the aegis of 'don't be afraid to use combat arts').

I would wager that most people use Smash pretty regularly early on in NG Maddening playthroughs, but I think that most players aren't actively making plans to acquire it or take advantage of it.  People don't have the mindset 'I need to get to D axes to get Smash', they have the mindset of 'I need to get to at least D+ axes to get into Brigand' and then pick up Smash by circumstance.

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10 hours ago, lenticular said:

I'm not sure I agree with this. I'd generally prefer to use my mythril on some of the sacred weapons. While I'd rather have one fully repaired Gradivus than one fully repaired Inexhaustible, for the mythril cost of forging/repairing Gradivus once, I can repair a sacred weapon three times over and have one mythril left over. This might be a matter of taste and play-style, though. I do generally tend to prefer consistent and reliable options to more powerful tools that I have to use sparingly.

This is a fair point - I had forgotten about the sacred weapons. Of the sacred weapons, I only really use the Spear of Assal and the Inexhaustible more than sparingly - the former is outclassed by Gradivus (except with cavalry), and the latter is only slightly better than a Brave Bow+  (-1 Wt and the Indech effect). I suppose the competition for Wootz Steel is fiercer than that for Mythril, which is another point for Inexhaustible. And unless you save-scum there's no way to know if/when you'll get Gradivus, which could also mean it's less available. Hmm there's definitely a case here.

In my first run I got lucky and obtained three of the rusted regalia quite early, and so since then I've looked out for them where I can. But perhaps avoiding aux battles would help with my sanity this run, which would make using Mythril for the sacred weapons much more attractive. 

10 hours ago, lenticular said:

I will nominate Grounder, the sword combat art. The big question with this is why would you bother with a combat art that's strong against flying enemies when you only have three available slots and you probably want all your sword units to be carrying a bow anyway? For me, the answer is that I don't bring it for the effectiveness against flying; I bring it for its accuracy. At +20 hit, the only sword combat arts that can equal or better it are Subdue, Windsweep, and Foudroyant Strike, which are all far less readily available. While accuracy on swords isn't usable a big problem, there are some occasions where you absolutely need to be able to hit reliably and getting an extra 10% hit compared to wrath strike can be a big deal. This is especially true in the early game, and since you pick up Grounder at sword rank C, you have it early enough to really make a difference.

Have never thought of this before! Adding it to the list.

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I think Silence tends to get slept on because it only targets mages and warlocks of the like and stops them from doing anything for a turn and nothing else. I know bosses are immune but if you need someone with high strength to take out a mage without taking nay damage Silence does help out in that regard. Especially if you have another silence user on deck for the sake of preventing mages from blasting away with their magic. It's niche I know, but I find it to be useful on occasions.

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9 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said:

This is a fair point - I had forgotten about the sacred weapons. Of the sacred weapons, I only really use the Spear of Assal and the Inexhaustible more than sparingly - the former is outclassed by Gradivus (except with cavalry), and the latter is only slightly better than a Brave Bow+  (-1 Wt and the Indech effect). I suppose the competition for Wootz Steel is fiercer than that for Mythril, which is another point for Inexhaustible. And unless you save-scum there's no way to know if/when you'll get Gradivus, which could also mean it's less available. Hmm there's definitely a case here.

I actually quite like the Axe of Ukonvasara as well, specifically for Fortress Knights (yes, I am aware that many people hate Fortress Knights). Its might is great, its high weight is completely irrelevant on Fortress Knights since they already have no speed to speak of, and the regen can be handy to mitigate chip damage. I'm not sure I like it enough to nominate it for this list but I definitely do make use of it.

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2 hours ago, lenticular said:

I actually quite like the Axe of Ukonvasara as well, specifically for Fortress Knights (yes, I am aware that many people hate Fortress Knights). Its might is great, its high weight is completely irrelevant on Fortress Knights since they already have no speed to speak of, and the regen can be handy to mitigate chip damage. I'm not sure I like it enough to nominate it for this list but I definitely do make use of it.

I got a kick out of it in my last playthrough, using it on Wyvern Lord Annette. With the Lightning Axe combat art, this weapon was dealing over 100 damage to Fortress Knights in a single hit. Of course, this was overkill - a Hammer usually got the job done. Not sure if it's worth the Mythril to repair it, though.

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13 hours ago, lenticular said:

I actually quite like the Axe of Ukonvasara as well, specifically for Fortress Knights (yes, I am aware that many people hate Fortress Knights). Its might is great, its high weight is completely irrelevant on Fortress Knights since they already have no speed to speak of, and the regen can be handy to mitigate chip damage. I'm not sure I like it enough to nominate it for this list but I definitely do make use of it.

I had surprisingly good fun using this with a Great Knight Ferdinand build - Pavise triggered a lot in his enemy phases, which allowed the regen to bring him back to full health, making his passive work in time for Player Phase attacks, and then I rinse and repeat, which got me through his paralogue. Apart from that I haven't really bothered with it.

Which has reminded me that I'm gonna add Pavise to this poll - I absolutely love it on my tanks, who see far more combat than anyone else, mitigating the Dex% activation rates. Ferdinand and Sylvain in particular have used it really effectively in previous runs - I'm more than happy to class into Fortress Knight just to get Pavise (though it's not for all my physical units).

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