Hardest route for all time. (All difficult)

[Cysx]

17 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

The dude is a chump compared to the other final bosses.

Now you're just jumping to the extreme opposite, though. Bringing up 0% growths makes sense when it strictly involves stat thresholds, as opposed to crutches like vengeance and luna(say what you will about it, but no, there's no guarantee that people will use Lysithea, and he does have 110 m.avo from a distance), which are not necessarily representative of what people will have. And the logistics of bringing him down in one turn with a warper that cannot be Lysithea, while not insurmountable, aren't simplistic.

Furthermore, all four bosses are easy in a regular playthrough with preparation. SS Rhea would be a problem, if she wasn't right in front of the player. CF Rhea could be tough but she's on Raging Storm route. Meanwhile AM Edelgard is on double dancing battalion route.

Though with no planning, Nemesis is among the easiest for sure, since you can lower his stats, he only has one lifebar and he moves from his defense tile.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Cysx

[haarhaarhaar]

18 minutes ago, Cysx said:

Though with no planning, Nemesis is among the easiest for sure, since you can lower his stats, he only has one lifebar and he moves from his defense tile

Seconded. Of the endgames, VW is certainly the easiest. A simple method for clearing the map is made extremely obvious by the game itself (and also reiterated in the main ability of the Elites), and there is very little else to complicate things. In contrast, the other endgames are better set up to entrap the unwary player, with greater reinforcements and bosses with more threatening abilities (Edelgard's two actions/high range, SS Rhea's monster-making, even CF Rhea's monster-buffing can be threatening if you're slow on Maddening). The other endgames also normally end up forcing multiple-turn boss fights, exposing you to the enemy phase of the boss + nearby enemies (who all get aggro'd when you fight the boss). Nemesis' low range and one lifebar make him much less dangerous by comparison, even if you couldn't lower his stats (but you can), and anyway 107 HP is certainly deletable in one round of combat.

Of course, endgames aren't necessarily representative of the difficulty of the whole route, although in this case VW happens to be the easiest overall.

[Shadow Mir]

On 8/8/2020 at 6:35 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

The VW final boss only has ~100 HP (even on Maddening) and no barrier. He's not trivial because the rest of his stats are good (for all that comparisons to Dheginsea's defences are completely unwarranted*), but I tend to agree that he's one of the easier final bosses, and also I personally find him easier than Macuil and Indech as well. Saying Lysithea goes "splat" in return ignores that he can't counter if he's dead, so at worst she can be used as a good finisher (even a pretty standard Lysithea should be able to manage half his HP). At best, you use Blessing so she can survive a counter. You also have Claude who can safely bait him after using Fallen Star.

I didn't think Poison Strike worked on him, though. Doesn't he have Commander?

 

*EDIT: Oh, I see, his defences are in fact around the same as Dheginsea's numerically. Is that what you mean? That said, PC attack stats in Three Houses are way higher than in Radiant Dawn: not only are the raw str/mag stats potentially higher, but you have -faire, Death/Fiendish Blow, battalions, cooking, and combat art might modifiers which allow you to stack your attack way higher.

Yeah. That said, Dheginsea actually had weaknesses to exploit in the form of thunder magic and wyrmslayers. Aside from those, Dheg can be outranged by a Marksman (Ena and Kurthnaga, both of whom are forced to come to endgame, can also attack him without him countering, which leaves me with at least one out). Going back to Nemesis, even with the Elites dead, 54 defense is still a lot. And Lysithea has rock-bottom durability against someone with 70+ atk - you don't need to be Columbo to discern what happens to her if she misses. Or that Blessing won't save her because the second hit will do her in anyhow.

On 8/8/2020 at 12:41 PM, LoneRecon400 said:

I just posted all the numbers behind it with a shot of it being done in practice. How exactly is it hard to see?

Posion Strikes still works with Impregnable Wall, so durablity isn't a concern in the slightest. And are you really telling me you aren't using Byleth or Lysithea in GD?

How in the name of Hylia will you pierce 80+ defense??? There's no physical equivalent to Luna, last I checked. . . Also, iirc, you said "while he's on the stronghold". Good luck with that, bub, considering he has 99 avoid with the Elites alive (also, Poison Strike, unlike in Fates, requires the user to actually connect).

Byleth, sure, as they're the main character, and thus must be used (that said, everyone here is "blah blah blah Wyvern Lord"), but Lysithea isn't guaranteed to see use (shocking, I know). Also, Poison Strike, like I said, is locked to a male-exclusive class that I probably won't bother with because it sucks unless your name is Hubert, and most of the male units that are not Byleth or a lord (Claude in this case) are of dubious quality at best; the only good one that I can think of off the top of my head (Felix) is weak in Reason.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[Anathaco]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Yeah. That said, Dheginsea actually had weaknesses to exploit in the form of thunder magic and wyrmslayers. Aside from those, Dheg can be outranged by a Marksman (Ena and Kurthnaga, both of whom are forced to come to endgame, can also attack him without him countering, which leaves me with at least one out). Going back to Nemesis, even with the Elites dead, 54 defense is still a lot. And Lysithea has rock-bottom durability against someone with 70+ atk - you don't need to be Columbo to discern what happens to her if she misses. Or that Blessing won't save her because the second hit will do her in anyhow

Tbf Lysithea will probably go splat against any of the final bosses- I literally couldn’t use her against the final boss of SS (on hard mode, no less) because her durability was so bad she got one shot, and I wasnt smart enough to bring blessing. Getting hit for twice your max HP has the same effect as getting hit for your max hp. Tl;dr: Nemesis isn’t significantly more dangerous than the other final bosses, to Lysithea at the very least.
 

IMO Nemesis is the easiest final boss because his stats, while high, are susceptible to brute-forcing or good planning (as evidenced by the 0% growths Cyril and other runs like this one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FDYjNrH7Jas). The other bosses are a bit harder to kill quickly because of their multiple hp bars and barriers/dragonskin. Not to mention his map is fairly straightforward too.

Anyway, back on topic, I agree with the common opinion of SS being the hardest, for reasons already explained.

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Anathaco

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Yeah. That said, Dheginsea actually had weaknesses to exploit in the form of thunder magic and wyrmslayers. Aside from those, Dheg can be outranged by a Marksman (Ena and Kurthnaga, both of whom are forced to come to endgame, can also attack him without him countering, which leaves me with at least one out). Going back to Nemesis, even with the Elites dead, 54 defense is still a lot. And Lysithea has rock-bottom durability against someone with 70+ atk - you don't need to be Columbo to discern what happens to her if she misses. Or that Blessing won't save her because the second hit will do her in anyhow.

A guard adjutant can save you from the second hit of a double.

Beyond that, it's not hard to get Lysithea to 100 accuracy (or extremely close with dual RN, like 90 displayed / 98 real). I would post numbers but since you consistently insist on ignoring numbers others post (including the ones LoneRecon posted in this very thread), why should I bother?

EDIT: Okay, that wasn't fair of me. Here are the numbers, for anyone wondering:

I'm assuming the elites are dead, as I'm talking about "normal" gameplay, not LTC strategies. Nemesis has 50 magic avo (40 from (Spd+Lck)/2, +20 from Sword Prowess 5, -10 from Einherjar).

Lysithea's hit

20 from (Dex+Lck)/2
20 from Reason Prowess 5
65 from Luna
20 from Ordelia Sorcery Co
10 from Accuracy Ring
34 from two A and two B supports

=169 hit. That's perfect accuracy at range 1, or 89 displayed = 98% real if you aren't able to get her into melee.

Notes:

-Lysithea's Dex and Luck are taken from her Level 40 average stats and ignore any bonuses to mod or growth from class, which are purely positive if small

-Note that I used Ordelia Sorcery Co just because it's "her" battalion and has a nice +8 to magic. But before you nitpick that it requires Ferdinand recruited, you should be aware of a couple other options: Macuil Evil Repelling Co. (+7 mag, +30 hit, storebought) and Edmund Troops (+5 mag, +40 hit, from a GD-alligned paralogue). So really, 20 is low if anything.

-I also used two A and two B supports because Claude/Byleth can provide A's, and then any other Deer + Catherine can provide at least a B. If you use any of the male Deer, or Cyril, etc., this number climbs further. In fairness, I did assume Lysithea has one of your three adjutants, but if you're tapping her to rip off half the final boss's HP in a single blow, I figure she's important enough to your team to deserve this.

-I assumed the player does not have access to the DLC, at which point Valkyrie mastery is a nearly a given for a standard Lysithea build (it's the only magic class that benefits dark magic in Advanced tier) and she can get a further 30 hit from Uncanny Blow.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Dark Holy Elf

[LoneRecon400]

51 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'm assuming the elites are dead and will be attacking at 1 range.

You don't even need to do that to get a good hit rate on Nemesis. He has 69 Speed and 72 Luck with all the Elites alive, so combined with Sword Prowess, Keen Intuition, and his Battalion, that's only a 100 Magic Avoid.

With a base Gremory Lysithea:

• 65 Luna
• 79 Base Dex + Luk
• 99 Reason Prowess
• 129 Maculi
• 139 A rank Adjutant
• 169 A rank Link Attacks x3
• 179 Accuracy Ring
• 191 Rally Dex/Luk/Special Dance

That's 91 Hit right there without anything too special going on. If you added Uncanny Blow or gave her Edmund Troops, that's a 100 Hit right there.

Edited August 13, 2020 by LoneRecon400

[Cysx]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

How in the name of Hylia will you pierce 80+ defense??? There's no physical equivalent to Luna, last I checked. . . Also, iirc, you said "while he's on the stronghold". Good luck with that, bub, considering he has 99 avoid with the Elites alive

I really don't get why you do that. Not only are you acting like he didn't provide proof when he very much did, but like, "bub"? Come on.

1 minute ago, LoneRecon400 said:

You don't even need to do that to get a good hit rate on Nemesis. He has 69 Speed and 72 Luck with all the Elites alive, so combined with Sword Prowess, Keen Intuition, and his Battalion, that's only a 100 Magic Avoid.

Okay, stop me but

(69 + 72) /2 = 70.5
+Sword prof = 90
+Keen intuition = 120
-Battalion = 110

Plus, getting three characters to act as support may not be a possibility. It's pretty much a given that people will have Claude as a flier so that's one, but yeah.

... not that this matters all that much. Reliability is nice, but only in an iron man DP-less run would her missing be that big a deal. And it's not like she's at <50 hit. That was dumb of me to even bring up.

[LoneRecon400]

1 hour ago, Cysx said:

Nemesis has 110 avoid 

Getting three characters to act as support may not be a possibility. It's pretty much a given that people will have Claude as a flier so that's one, but yeah.

Thought that Keen Inutution gave +20 Avoid, not 30. My bad.

So long as you have Dance of the Goddess and some movement tools to get past the intial bad terrain, you can send pretty much any unit that's not a non mounted mage down there for Link Attacks. For example.

Edited August 13, 2020 by LoneRecon400

[Cysx]

3 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Thought that Keen Inutution gives +20 Avoid, not 30. My bad.

So long as you have Dance of the Goddess and some movement tools, you can send pretty much any unit that's not a non mounted mage down there for Link Attacks. For example.

I honestly recalled all foot units being slowed down a bit by the swamp(and mounted ones a lot). A'ight, I yield.

[LoneRecon400]

7 minutes ago, Cysx said:

I honestly recalled all foot units being slowed down a bit by the swamp(and mounted ones a lot). A'ight, I yield.

It slows down mounted units a lot, but they can just simply dismount. Swamp doesn't do anything to infantry units movement wise.

Edited August 13, 2020 by LoneRecon400

[Cysx]

1 hour ago, LoneRecon400 said:

It slows down mounted units a lot, but they can just simply dismount. Swamp doesn't do anything to infantry units movement wise.

Would you believe me if I said I was going to include pretty much this exact first sentence but ultimately went "nah"?
I blame Echoes swamps. I mean I blame myself and then Echoes swamps. They're the same color, too.
Edit: Well some of them are, anyway.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Cysx