How do you feel about Byleth likely being a consistent major source of Three Houses representation in future FE content?

[Seazas]

2 hours ago, GlitchWarrior said:

Personally? Even if Byleth is the face of the game, his/her three potential proteges are the real stars of the show. Sure, Byleth is the POV character. But he/she is a blank slate. Like, literally, Byleth has no personality, it's even commented on. Now, Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude are the three that should represent Three Houses to the world in my opinion.

Hard for me to say... Byleth is easily the best choice in scenarios that wouldn't have involved all 3 lords like Smash Bros or that Cipher art of all the lords. However, I wouldn't mind them showing up a lot.

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

On 8/8/2020 at 1:01 PM, Seazas said:

How do you feel about Byleth likely being a consistent major source of Three Houses representation in future FE content?

i guess the trends are what they are: trends. they come and they go. the other 3 lords probably deserved more attention though, as the game isn't all about Byleth.

On 8/8/2020 at 1:01 PM, Seazas said:

With Heroes promotional unit being Byleth, Cipher's combined lord art being solo Byleth alongside the other lords, Smash Bros and a guaranteed amiibo.

What are your thoughts?

at this point, i guess it's obvious that Byleth has become the face of 3H. mind though: the face of 3H, not the face of the whole franchise. there's always other characters that could be way more popular and likeable.

thing is, not everyone cares about spinoffs such as Heroes, or TCGs such as Cipher.

Smash Bros basicly being "Videogames: the videogame", means that it's pretty much a rollercoast between trends and popular videogames characters from different franchises in&out of Nintendo's property, so they ended up compressing what they could from 3H into one character.

On 8/8/2020 at 1:01 PM, Seazas said:

Bonus: Any specific thoughts about the current character choices as amiibo that are likely to be consistent even if FE is ongoing several years from now?

well, i just found out that there's actually two different existing amiibos of Chrom, so i'm kinda...baffled:

 

while they're both nice(although the 2nd one on the right looks more like a detailed bootleg copy of sorts), i honestly don't know why they decided to release two different versions, rather than making a re-run of the previous one like they did with Marth/Ike.

at this point, i'll just keep my fingers crossed for a Genealogy remake, along with a Sigurd amiibo.

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by 𝙵ᴇɴʀᴇɪʀ

[Magenta Fantasies]

On 8/8/2020 at 11:08 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

I think this is why we get Byleth, yes. Byleth is not my favourite, and in fact is relatively few people's favourite compared to Edelgard, Dimitri, or Claude. But they'll choose Byleth for representation because s/he is the only character who is inclusive of 3H in general. Choosing one of the lords elevates that house above the rest. So while I'm not precisely happy that a silent avatar is representing the game compared to some of my favourite characters in the series, I totally understand why it is happening and I expect it to continue.

Agreed. I don’t love Byleth, but I’d rather have him/her as a neutral representative of 3H than Edelgard, Claude or Dimitri. Whoever was featured in SSB would become disproportionately more popular. 

To put it this way, I’m glad Corrin was the Fates representative in SSB rather than Xander or Ryoma (though I have to admit, Ryoma could be an awesome addition. His aesthetic and swordplay would be completely different than that of any other FE character featured in SSB. I picture him attracting a LOT of interest from non-FE fans.)

[Seazas]

7 hours ago, 𝙵ᴇɴʀᴇɪʀ said:

i guess the trends are what they are: trends. they come and they go. the other 3 lords probably deserved more attention though, as the game isn't all about Byleth.

at this point, i guess it's obvious that Byleth has become the face of 3H. mind though: the face of 3H, not the face of the whole franchise. there's always other characters that could be way more popular and likeable.

thing is, not everyone cares about spinoffs such as Heroes, or TCGs such as Cipher.

Smash Bros basicly being "Videogames: the videogame", means that it's pretty much a rollercoast between trends and popular videogames characters from different franchises in&out of Nintendo's property, so they ended up compressing what they could from 3H into one character.

well, i just found out that there's actually two different existing amiibos of Chrom, so i'm kinda...baffled:

 

while they're both nice(although the 2nd one on the right looks more like a detailed bootleg copy of sorts), i honestly don't know why they decided to release two different versions, rather than making a re-run of the previous one like they did with Marth/Ike.

at this point, i'll just keep my fingers crossed for a Genealogy remake, along with a Sigurd amiibo.

 

Byleth works well enough as a neutral representation. As you said, FE as a whole won't be defined by Byleth, same for El, Dimitri and Claude. If it comes to the point where including all 3 lords equally isn't a possibility, just throw in Byleth at that point.

Yeah Warriors taking pity on Chrom and giving him an amiibo was such a waste. Should've gave it to someone like Lyn tbh.

I hope Sigurd and Seliph get the Alm and Celica amiibo bonus.

[lenticular]

When it comes to Smash specifically, I don't think that it really matters all that much which character was included. I know that there have been a lot of games that have seen some big additional sales from inclusion in Smash, but I think that mostly comes when a franchise is first included, not when it gets its eighth character. For the most part, Smash Players knew about Fire Emblem long before Byleth was added, and had already either played Three Houses or decided they weren't interested. Three Houses sales were about the same in Q1 2020 as they were in Q4 2019 (about 300,000). Maybe you can say there would have been a drop-off if it weren't for Smash, but it's not moving the needle a whole lot. We're certainly far removed from the days when having Roy and Marth in Melee introduced the franchise to the West.

Then, for people who had already played Three Houses, has Byleth's inclusion in Smash really changed how they feel about the character? Are we seeing a bunch of people who are saying "well, I used to hate Byleth, but then I mained them in Smash and now I love them"? I know I've not seen anything like that. Most Fire Emblem fans are going to make up their minds on the character based on Three Houses itself. Maybe people who already love the character might love them a little bit more after Smash, but I just don't see it having that big of an impact.

The choice of character is important in terms of trying to attract Fire Emblem fans to buy the DLC, and it's important in terms of creating a character who's fun to play in Smash, but in terms of any lasting impact or legacy? I'm not seeing it.

[Seazas]

4 hours ago, lenticular said:

When it comes to Smash specifically, I don't think that it really matters all that much which character was included. I know that there have been a lot of games that have seen some big additional sales from inclusion in Smash, but I think that mostly comes when a franchise is first included, not when it gets its eighth character. For the most part, Smash Players knew about Fire Emblem long before Byleth was added, and had already either played Three Houses or decided they weren't interested. Three Houses sales were about the same in Q1 2020 as they were in Q4 2019 (about 300,000). Maybe you can say there would have been a drop-off if it weren't for Smash, but it's not moving the needle a whole lot. We're certainly far removed from the days when having Roy and Marth in Melee introduced the franchise to the West.

Then, for people who had already played Three Houses, has Byleth's inclusion in Smash really changed how they feel about the character? Are we seeing a bunch of people who are saying "well, I used to hate Byleth, but then I mained them in Smash and now I love them"? I know I've not seen anything like that. Most Fire Emblem fans are going to make up their minds on the character based on Three Houses itself. Maybe people who already love the character might love them a little bit more after Smash, but I just don't see it having that big of an impact.

The choice of character is important in terms of trying to attract Fire Emblem fans to buy the DLC, and it's important in terms of creating a character who's fun to play in Smash, but in terms of any lasting impact or legacy? I'm not seeing it.

To be fair, Byleth's still an important part of Three Houses and easily the best choice of neutral representation without favoring a house.

[------]

On 8/8/2020 at 11:47 AM, Yexin said:

hot take: Rhea would be a better way to represent 3H compared to Byleth, and my reasons are:

1) she can be considered somewhat of a "neutral" pick (since nobody really cares about Rhea and her route in general, and it wouldn't make Edelgard/Dimitri/Claude fans THAT upset);
2) strong female character;
3) love her or hate her, she's a much more interesting character than Byleth

Uh... Rhea's a very controversial character, more so than Dimitri or Claude I'd say. Picking her over Byleth or the lords would piss off quite a few fans, myself included. Especially since her route's so insignificant and she's not even a playable lord. And I wouldn't exactly call her a "strong female character" either, at least in terms of selflessness or moral integrity. A tyrant's still a tyrant, regardless of gender.

But to stay on topic, I guess if I had my preference, El and Dimitri would be the 3H reps. But I don't really mind Byleth as long as they stick with female Byleth for the most part. And like others have already said, Byleth's the only true "neutral" pick except for maybe Sothis.

[Emmy]

I mean, i don't mind really. She/he is the main character, after all.

[null]

Quite honestly, I'm tired of FE getting avatars like Byleth, Robin, or Corrin as protagonists or co-protagonists. I only want the story to involve actual characters (although to be fair, Robin and Corrin did have some minor development as characters).

For Three Houses though, I'd much rather see the three lords be the reps for the game. The story revolves around their respective arcs after all, depending on the route you choose.

[Seazas]

9 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

Quite honestly, I'm tired of FE getting avatars like Byleth, Robin, or Corrin as protagonists or co-protagonists. I only want the story to involve actual characters (although to be fair, Robin and Corrin did have some minor development as characters).

For Three Houses though, I'd much rather see the three lords be the reps for the game. The story revolves around their respective arcs after all, depending on the route you choose.

I highly doubt they'll be able to include all 3 lords in everything. Might as well use Byleth since they're the ones getting the amiibo and generally have Byleth's POV in Three Houses. They're the only lord in this game that has anything special with their relic. Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude don't even get a simple artwork of them receiving their own relics, while Byleth has an entire cutscene dedicated to her retrieval of the Sword of the Creator.

10 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:

Uh... Rhea's a very controversial character, more so than Dimitri or Claude I'd say. Picking her over Byleth or the lords would piss off quite a few fans, myself included. Especially since her route's so insignificant and she's not even a playable lord. And I wouldn't exactly call her a "strong female character" either, at least in terms of selflessness or moral integrity. A tyrant's still a tyrant, regardless of gender.

But to stay on topic, I guess if I had my preference, El and Dimitri would be the 3H reps. But I don't really mind Byleth as long as they stick with female Byleth for the most part. And like others have already said, Byleth's the only true "neutral" pick except for maybe Sothis.

"Tyrant" isn't an accurate description at all.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Seazas

[------]

10 hours ago, Seazas said:

"Tyrant" isn't an accurate description at all.

Afraid I'm gonna have to disagree here, but I won't derail this into a Rhea debate. Just pointing out that she wouldn't be a good "neutral" rep because she's such a divisive character, just like Edelgard. Byleth's the safest choice because she's the avatar, so nobody really has any strong opinions of her either way. Sothis I guess wouldn't be bad either if they wanted to go for someone less vanilla than Byleth.

[Seazas]

3 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

Afraid I'm gonna have to disagree here, but I won't derail this into a Rhea debate. Just pointing out that she wouldn't be a good "neutral" rep because she's such a divisive character, just like Edelgard. Byleth's the safest choice because she's the avatar, so nobody really has any strong opinions of her either way. Sothis I guess wouldn't be bad either if they wanted to go for someone less vanilla than Byleth.

Her actions literally contradict tyrant status but ok, props for not derailing enough regardless of extremely questionable takes.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 9/3/2020 at 1:57 PM, RainbowMoon said:

Uh... Rhea's a very controversial character, more so than Dimitri or Claude I'd say. Picking her over Byleth or the lords would piss off quite a few fans, myself included. Especially since her route's so insignificant and she's not even a playable lord. And I wouldn't exactly call her a "strong female character" either, at least in terms of selflessness or moral integrity. A tyrant's still a tyrant, regardless of gender.

But to stay on topic, I guess if I had my preference, El and Dimitri would be the 3H reps. But I don't really mind Byleth as long as they stick with female Byleth for the most part. And like others have already said, Byleth's the only true "neutral" pick except for maybe Sothis.

Disagree on tyrant, but totally agreed that Rhea wouldn't be good representation. She's not even playable in her base game. Incidentally, neither is Palutena, who looks exactly like her.

In theory, there are a few other "Neutral" pucks, like Shamir, Hanneman, Manuela, and Alois. But none of them are significant or popular enough to represent the game as a whole.

[------]

Okay, I'll admit tyrant's kind of a strong word. How's about we just say "crappy leader" instead? I think that's a fair description of her without being overly harsh.

15 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

In theory, there are a few other "Neutral" pucks, like Shamir, Hanneman, Manuela, and Alois. But none of them are significant or popular enough to represent the game as a whole.

Ooh, Shamir (or even Catherine) would make a pretty interesting 3H rep! Especially since archers don't usually get the same attention sword-wielders seem to. The fact that she's a merc with no real loyalty to anyone's side certainly helps too. Seteth would be another good one, being a canon Wyvern Lord with his own unique weapon. But unfortunately I think you're right, they wouldn't choose a secondary character to represent the entire game.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, RainbowMoon said:

Okay, I'll admit tyrant's kind of a strong word. How's about we just say "crappy leader" instead? I think that's a fair description of her without being overly harsh.

Hey, you don't need to moderate your stance for my or anyone else's benefit. There are arguments to be made that Rhea's position in Fódlan is a tyrannical one. And arguments that it is not. But as has been stated, this thread really isn't the place for such debate.

I do agree though that, given the debate, Rhea would be a divisive pick. As would Edelgard, who has similarly suffered her own "history wars". One pick I had thought of earlier was Seteth/Flayn as some sort of "combo fighter" in Smash - potentially getting a wyvern and lances, but also light magic? Again, though, they're not playable on all routes. 

[BrightBow]

Every important character in this setting considers Byleth their teacher. Byleth is the centerpiece of that world, so there could be no better representation.

[Samz707]

In the case of Smash, while I originally thought of this for how Mark would work in Smash, I do think maybe it'd have been cooler if Byleth was like Pokemon trainer and instead switched between the 3 lords while standing behind them. (And I guess attacking with the sword of the creator themselves for one of your attacks.)

So it'd be Byleth commanding the 3 lords in one character.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Samz707

[Seazas]

43 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

In the case of Smash, while I originally thought of this for how Mark would work in Smash, I do think maybe it'd have been cooler if Byleth was like Pokemon trainer and instead switched between the 3 lords while standing behind them. (And I guess attacking with the sword of the creator themselves for one of your attacks.)

So it'd be Byleth commanding the 3 lords in one character.

Which doesn't make sense since Byleth fights on their own and the lords have never fought together outside of the paralogue chapter. 

[Samz707]

On 9/6/2020 at 1:38 AM, Seazas said:

Which doesn't make sense since Byleth fights on their own and the lords have never fought together outside of the paralogue chapter. 

The Smash move-set/skins aren't exactly 1-1 with the actual way characters are in their own games.

Solid Snake's Camouflaged alternate outfits were worn by his father he was cloned from (and in a different sneaking suit altogether.) and his original Final Smash (Flying in a helicopter firing grenades form a Grenade Launcher) is something he never actually did in the games (He flew in a helicopter with a rifle but didn't really attack from in it MGS2 and the Grenade Launcher was unusable entirely for him in MGS2 outside of bonus modes in the re-release.) and his new final smash involves him throwing a flare grenade to call in an air-strike, which only his dad did in MGSV.

(Insert joke about Roy being less bad than in his own game.)

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Samz707

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 9/5/2020 at 8:38 PM, Seazas said:

Which doesn't make sense since Byleth fights on their own and the lords have never fought together outside of the paralogue chapter. 

And it's also impossible, without trading, for the Pokemon Trainer to simultaneously have Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard on the same team. But they're all iconic, and to choose just one would be slighting the others.

Also, the three Lords do fight together in the Cindered Shadows campaign. Which is, admittedly, of dubious canonicity.

[NinjaMonkey]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

And it's also impossible, without trading, for the Pokemon Trainer to simultaneously have Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard on the same team.

Pokemon Yellow says otherwise, seeing as you get a Bulbasaur, Charmander and Squirtle over the course of the game.

Edited September 15, 2020 by NinjaMonkey

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Pokemon Yellow says otherwise, seeing as you get a Bulbasaur, Charmander and Squirtle over the course of the game.

...Hm, fair enough. I forgot about Yellow, but it is indeed possible in that game. Of course, while the Pokemon Trainer isn't designated as anyone in particular, their designs most closely trace to the player characters in Fire Red and Leaf Green. Wherein, such a team is impossible without trading.

[Seazas]

7 hours ago, Samz707 said:

The Smash move-set/skins aren't exactly 1-1 with the actual way characters are in their own games.

Solid Snake's Camouflaged alternate outfits were worn by his father he was cloned from (and in a different sneaking suit altogether.) and his original Final Smash (Flying in a helicopter firing grenades form a Grenade Launcher) is something he never actually did in the games (He flew in a helicopter with a rifle but didn't really attack from in it MGS2 and the Grenade Launcher was unusable entirely for him in MGS2 outside of bonus modes in the re-release.) and his new final smash involves him throwing a flare grenade to call in an air-strike, which only his dad did in MGSV.

(Insert joke about Roy being less bad than in his own game.)

 

Even so, that isn't a good excuse to randomly not make Byleth fight for the sake of the three lords. Pokemon Trainer made sense since they don't fight and can use the three Pokemon. Byleth can not do that. 

[Samz707]

2 hours ago, Seazas said:

Even so, that isn't a good excuse to randomly not make Byleth fight for the sake of the three lords. Pokemon Trainer made sense since they don't fight and can use the three Pokemon. Byleth can not do that. 

Well I was thinking more Byleth can still fight,  (Doesn't the sword of the creator double as a whip-thing? they could use that as an attack that stays the same no matter what lord is being used.) it's just most of the moveset depends on the lord.