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ChaosStar0

Current plan for character promotions

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So it was mentioned in my thread about how many classes you can feasibly master in a run that my current plan for character promotions isn't feasible. I'm going to put my plan here and ask how you'd alter them while still keeping the concept of the progression. Note that this doesn't include DLC characters. Also please no 'Make everyone Wyvern Lords'.

Byleth: Commoner->Myrmidon->Mage->Brigand->Enlightened One

Edelgard: Noble->Fighter->Armored Knight->Brigand->Fortress Knight->Emperor

Dimitri: Noble->Soldier->Cavalier->Paladin->High Lord->Great Lord

Claude: Noble->Fighter->Brigand->Archer->Wyvern Master->Barbarossa

Hubert: Noble->Monk->Mage->Dark Mage->Warlock->Dark Knight

Dedue: Commoner->Fighter->Armored Knight->Fortress Knight->War Master

Lorenz: Noble->Monk->Mage->Dark Mage->Warlock->Dark Knight

Ferdinand: Noble->Soldier->Brigand->Fortress Knight->Paladin->Great Knight

Felix: Noble->Myrmidon->Mercenary->Brigand->Warrior->War Master

Raphael: Commoner->Fighter->Armored Knight->Fortress Knight->War Master

Lindhardt: Noble->Monk->Mage->Priest->Bishop->Dancer

Ashe: Commoner->Fighter->Brigand->Archer->Sniper->Bow Knight

Ignatz: Commoner->Fighter->Dark Mage->Archer->Sniper->Bow Knight

Caspar: Noble->Fighter->Mercenary->Brigand->Warrior->War Master

Sylvain: Noble->Monk->Mage->Dark Mage->Warlock->Dark Knight

Lysithea: Noble->Monk->Mage->Priest->Bishop->Gremory

Bernadetta: Noble->Fighter->Brigand->Archer->Sniper->Bow Knight

Mercedes: Commoner->Monk->Mage->Priest->Bishop->Dancer

Marianne: Noble->Monk->Mage->Priest->Bishop->Dancer

Dorothea: Commoner->Monk->Mage->Priest->Bishop->Gremory

Annette: Noble->Monk->Mage->Priest->Warlock->Gremory

Hilda: Noble->Fighter->Mercenary->Armored Knight->Warrior>Great Knight

Petra: Commoner->Fighter->Brigand->Pegasus Knight->Wyvern Rider->Falcon Knight

Ingrid: Noble->Soldier->Brigand->Pegasus Knight->Wyvern Rider->Falcon Knight

Leonie: Commoner->Fighter->Brigand->Pegasus Knight->Wyvern Rider->Falcon Knight

Cyril: Commoner->Fighter->Brigand->Archer->Wyvern Rider->Wyvern Lord

Flayn: Priest->Bishop->Warlock->Gremory

Catherine: Swordmaster->Brigand->Assassain->Swordmaster

Shamir: Sniper->Archer->Bow Knight

Hanneman: Mage->Dark Bishop->Warlock

Manuela: Priest->Pegasus Knight->Falcon Knight

Alois: Warrior->Brigand->War Master

Seteth: Wyvern Rider->Brigand->Wyvern Lord

Gilbert: Fortress Knight->Brigand->Great Knight

Edited by ChaosStar0

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Most, if not all of these, are way too long. For starters, I'd cut Holy Knight and Pegasus Knight from the plan for Marianne.

EDIT: Also, Dark Bishop requires Dark Mage certification, as well as a Dark Seal. And Dark Mage certification requires a Dark Seal.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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I know you said "no making everyone wyvern lords" but in my experience Edelgard and Hilda are legitimately better in those classes than if you take them armored. Basically everyone else looks fine, though you may have a focus on too many classes to go through on some of them.

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You going to have to preface a lot first before you make something like this. Like what difficulty is this? What Route? How many Aux Battles are you willing to do? Are going to be fishing a lot? How is recruitment going to be handled?

 A lot of these also don't really make much sense, such as putting Fredinand through Fortress Knight even though he's going to be one rounding a lot of enemies with Swift Strikes so he isn't going to be hit in the first place. That goes double if you want him as a Dodgetank. 

If you want an general ideal path, you'd want to be going Fighter -> Brigand -> Archer if you're on Maddening -> whatever final class you want them in. Same with Magic units except replace Fighter and Brigand with Monk and Mage. 

Some specifics:

-Byleth, Edelgard, and Dimtri's personal classes are all rather lackluster. Byleth can't go into lord either. 

-There's no point for Byleth to go into Swordmaster as Astra can't be carried over and is terrible anyways. And unless you really like Renewal, there's not much point in going into Bishop with Byleth either. 

- Unless you're planning on Vantage + Wrath set ups, Grappler -> Warmaster due to guaranteed tripling on Player Phase after Mastering it. 

-Thrres no reason for Black Magic users to go into Dark Mage / Bishop since the class masteries don't benefit them and won't benefit from class fiendish blow. 

-No reason to put Linhardt into Warlock / Dark Bishop if you just want him to end in Bishop. 

- Sniper > Bow Knight due to Hunter's Volley. 

-Holy knight sucks due not having great offensive White Magic spells and not boosting Healing in anyway. Always go Dark Knight instead if you want a mounted Mage.

-Swordmaster is a terrible class to end up in. Use Assassin instead if you want sword for +1 Movement and no movement penalties for a lot of terrain. 

-Never give up your Dancer. Ever.

There's more issues about this list, but I think I've gone on long enough. 

Edited by LoneRecon400

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13 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

You going to have to preface a lot first before you make something like this. Like what difficulty is this? What Route? How many Aux Battles are you willing to do? Are going to be fishing a lot? How is recruitment going to be handled?

 A lot of these also don't really make much sense, such as putting Fredinand through Fortress Knight even though he's going to be one rounding a lot of enemies with Swift Strikes so he isn't going to be hit in the first place. That goes double if you want him as a Dodgetank. 

If you want an general ideal path, you'd want to be going Fighter -> Brigand -> Archer if you're on Maddening -> whatever final class you want them in. Same with Magic units except replace Fighter and Brigand with Monk and Mage. 

Some specifics:

-Byleth, Edelgard, and Dimtri's personal classes are all rather lackluster. Byleth can't go into lord either. 

-There's no point for Byleth to go into Swordmaster as Astra can't be carried over and is terrible anyways. And unless you really like Renewal, there's not much point in going into Bishop with Byleth either. 

- Unless you're planning on Vantage + Wrath set ups, Grappler -> Warmaster due to guaranteed tripling on Player Phase after Mastering it. 

-Thrres no reason for Black Magic users to go into Dark Mage / Bishop since the class masteries don't benefit them and won't benefit from class fiendish blow. 

-No reason to put Linhardt into Warlock / Dark Bishop if you just want him to end in Bishop. 

- Sniper > Bow Knight due to Hunter's Volley. 

-Holy knight sucks due not having great offensive White Magic spells and not boosting Healing in anyway. Always go Dark Knight instead if you want a mounted Mage.

-Swordmaster is a terrible class to end up in. Use Assassin instead if you want sword for +1 Movement and no movement penalties for a lot of terrain. 

-Never give up your Dancer. Ever.

There's more issues about this list, but I think I've gone on long enough. 

You aren't bothered as much as I am by the fact that the OP's class paths are too damn long?

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@LoneRecon400 In order: Any, Any, As many as needed, Duh, As many as possible. This is an in general thing, not for specific routes. Also I know they're too long the point in this is asking to shorten them. Ferdinand's going Fortress Knight is for the Mastery Skill, not dodgetank. Also Marianne is a perfect fit for Holy Knight, same reason for Sylvain as a Dark Knight.

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11 minutes ago, ChaosStar0 said:

@LoneRecon400 In order: Any, Any, As many as needed, Duh, As many as possible. This is an in general thing, not for specific routes. Also I know they're too long the point in this is asking to shorten them. Ferdinand's going Fortress Knight is for the Mastery Skill, not dodgetank. Also Marianne is a perfect fit for Holy Knight, same reason for Sylvain as a Dark Knight.

Just because they're a perfect fit for the class doesn't mean the class is worth putting them in, especially if the class is bad, which Holy Knight is. At any rate, do you seriously have no problem with the fact your proposed Ferdinand build requires training in lances, axes, heavy armor, riding AND flying???? Because that's really spreading yourself thin, especially with the fact that you'll probably want to invest in authority on top of all that.

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@Shadow Mir I did relook at Ferdinand's Strengths, and yeah Flying seems a bit too much with everything else. I just swapped the Wyvern Classes for Great Knight. If I don't go for Holy Knight for Marianne, I'd go for Falcon Knight instead, but I don't think Falcon Knights use Magic in this game. The only mounted Healer seems to be Holy Knights anyway.

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Armored classes are pretty bad in this game, and applying Dex% Proc skills isn't really going to save them.

Not only do they get one rounded by most mages, if they get hit by an enemy Gambit they'll often just get 2 rounded since battalions make up a quater of their defense. If you ever want a durable unit, just apply a unit with Impregnable Wall.

It'd just better to go Warrior -> Wyvern Lord and use Wrath + Defiant Crit along with Alert Stance + if you want a unit for Enemy Phase.

Edited by LoneRecon400

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1 hour ago, ChaosStar0 said:

@Shadow Mir I did relook at Ferdinand's Strengths, and yeah Flying seems a bit too much with everything else. I just swapped the Wyvern Classes for Great Knight. If I don't go for Holy Knight for Marianne, I'd go for Falcon Knight instead, but I don't think Falcon Knights use Magic in this game. The only mounted Healer seems to be Holy Knights anyway.

The problem is, in terms of healing, Holy Knight is far inferior to Bishop. The horse doesn't even come close to making up for the loss of doubled white magic uses and extra healing. The result? Anyone who could work as a Holy Knight would be better either going to Dark Knight or Gremory instead, or even staying in Bishop.

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Are we talking progressions in general and masteries? Because I've found mastering Armored Knight, Priest, Cavalier, Paladin, Swordmaster, and any master class except the fliers and War Master, to be a waste of energy. Like, by all means spend time in those classes if you want/need, (obviously a lot of those classes are very good) but going out of your way to master them is pointless because the benefits from mastery specifically aren't worth the effort.

As for progressions, there's obviously excess in what you've written, and that can be whittled down by working out exactly what you might want from each character in their final (endgame) form. Will they do most of their work on Player Phase, or Enemy Phase? What kind of role are they supposed to perform, and in what context (i.e. does anyone else want their deployment slot, who else in your army is doing similar or complementary things)? Answering all these questions will immediately allow you to cut some of the fluff. After that, it's working out the minimum progression to reach that final form as fast as possible (because you want every unit to be at their peak for as long as possible). If you plan builds from the end working back, it'll be obvious which classes/weapons/masteries are more important than others. Especially since you only have 5 skill slots, at least one of which will be filled by non-mastery skills.

If you're looking for so-called optimal builds, it's worth saying 1) they don't exist for every character and 2) there will be wild differences depending on external factors even for those builds. For example, Lorenz is a powerful unit in Normal, fairly decent in Hard, but has very little killing power in Maddening, even though he technically does have an 'optimal' build that remains the same for all difficulty modes. Which is why in general, the more context you can provide the easier it is for people to make recommendations.

2 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Ferdinand's going Fortress Knight is for the Mastery Skill, not dodgetank

I rate Pavise, but Ferdinand and Sylvain as Great Knights (and a GK Hilda build which wasn't too serious) are the only units I've gotten genuinely good results for it. Your Pavise user should be seeing at least 2-3 times the physical combat of every unit in your army in order for Pavise to show its worth - it's only useful in certain builds, and Sylvain and Ferdinand both have other builds which can be better than GK for them.

Edited by haarhaarhaar

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2 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

@Shadow Mir I did relook at Ferdinand's Strengths, and yeah Flying seems a bit too much with everything else. I just swapped the Wyvern Classes for Great Knight. If I don't go for Holy Knight for Marianne, I'd go for Falcon Knight instead, but I don't think Falcon Knights use Magic in this game. The only mounted Healer seems to be Holy Knights anyway.

If you want to go Falcon Knight for Marianne she can utilise magic damage through combat arts like Soulblade and Frozen Lance, or she can equip a Levin Sword and attack that way. If you’d rather she be a mounted healer then Dark Knight is the way to go- its healing capabilities are basically the same as Holy Knight because neither of them offer a skill that benefits it, but both can use white magic.

For these options I’d suggest the following class progressions:

Falcon Knight: Noble -> Monk -> Mage -> Pegasus Knight -> Falcon Knight (there may be a better way than this but this is the best I can think of)

Dark Knight: Noble -> Monk -> Mage -> Bishop or Warlock -> Dark Knight.

 

Anyway, looking over your list, some recommendations I can make:

Dimitri should cut Mercenary out- if he’s only looking for vantage, he learns battalion vantage by leveling up his Authority. With that, he only needs to train lances, riding and authority, and his progression throughout the game is set.

Dark Mage and Dark Bishop don’t really add much to Lorenz’s class progression- poison strike from dark mage might be useful, but if you’re going for damage and ORKO’s then it’s not. And Lifetaker is kinda bad.

I’m unclear as to your plans for Dedue- is he going to be a tank or a player phase nuke? If tank, then cut out Brigand and Warrior, use aux battles to grind War Master to mastery once you get it, then switch to Fortress Knight. If he’s a nuke, then armoured knight and fortress knight offer nothing, really. Armoured blow doesn’t matter if they die before they can hit you, and as haarhaarhaar pointed out, Pavise is best on pure tanks who see much more enemy phase combat than anybody else. Dedue using it to tank the occasional enemy phase isn’t very useful IMO.

I have the same issue with Raphael and his class progression.

Felix can cut Swordmaster- it doesn’t give him a mastery ability that he can use in any other class. I think going for vantage and wrath is fine as long as you use a couple auxiliary battles to grind them.

Warrior doesn’t seem useful for Ashe- he’s not very good at enemy phase so he won’t use wrath much. Bow Knight is optional- most people would argue sniper is better but Bow Knight is still perfectly usable.

I suppose Ignatz is going dark mage for poison strike? Seems fine to me, though it’s something you should grind in an auxiliary battle. And Assassin isn’t really worth it- Lethality is not a very good skill at all, and assassinate is even worse, plus it can only be used while you’re an assassin. So cut that out and Ignatz looks good.

I’m assuming vantage wrath shenanigans for Caspar too? If that’s the case cut grappler out- its mastery is great, but only if he ends as a grappler, otherwise he can’t use it.

Sylvain can probably cut cav and Paladin- if he wants to be a dark knight then sticking to magical classes is more important.

Lysithea won’t really use seal res if she one shots everything. In that case I’d suggest cutting dark knight- mastering two master classes is an iffy prospect- possible, but not worth it IMO. She can also cut priest without losing anything worthwhile. Bishop could be replaced with warlock if you want but that’s down to personal preference.

A common trend I’m noticing: characters who want to end as Gremory don’t have to go down both reason and faith pathways- you’re better off using one or the other and just relying on instruction and tutoring to raise the other rank.

If Ingrid wants desperation she can train authority and learn the battalion version. I don’t think either are too good, but you can avoid training riding at all (aegis is also not too helpful imo) and train the much more helpful authority instead.

 

Ok that’s all the students I see issues with. Most of this is just my opinion, but I hope this helps you out in some way. 

Edited by Anathaco

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I agree with Shadow Mir, your class progressions seem way too long and have classes that don't seem to fit and seem unnecessary. of course, it depends on what type of build you are going for specifically. You can build any character in many different ways, but no matter which type of build you want, I recommend making the progressions more specialized for specific builds and cutting down on the extra classes. I don't think creating overly general progressions works.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Byleth: Commoner->Myrmidon->Mercenary->Lord->Swordmaster->Bishop->Enlightened One

Mercenary and Lord are both pretty unnecessary. Mercenary is pretty much only worth it if you are going for a Vantage build. I also don't see the point in trying to be both a Swordmaster and a Bishop. If you want Byleth's magic to more effective as an Enlightened One, then you should master Mage for Fiendish Blow.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Edelgard: Noble->Fighter->Armored Knight->Brigand->Warrior->Fortress Knight->Emperor

 I really think Wyvern Lord is the best class for Edelgard. I also don't see the point in being both Brigand and Armor Knight and both Warrior and Fortress Knight. I think it's probably better to stick to one path. Armour Knight might be worth certifying for just for the Def boost and training her in Armor can give her the Weight -3 ability, but I wouldn't recommend actually changing into the class and I wouldn't recommend changing into Fortress Knight either. Brigand is good to master for Death Blow. Warrior is also a bad class unless you are creating a Wrath build.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Dimitri: Noble->Soldier->Cavalier->Mercenary->Paladin->High Lord->Great Lord

I don't understand why you would switch from Cavalier to Mercenary. Mercenary is generally only worth mastering if you are making a Vantage build, but Dimitri learns Battalion Vantage so he doesn't need regular Vantage. Cavalier can be useful for the high Move and Canto, if you are worried about the Spd penalty, I have seen some people recommend making him a Thief for its Spd boost. 

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Claude: Noble->Fighter->Brigand->Archer->Wyvern Rider->Wyvern Master->Barbarossa

Brigand and Archer are great choices for Death Blow and Hit+20 respectively. Wyvern Rider is a great class but might be more investment than its worth here, since it requires you to train him in Bows, Axes and Flying. It could be worth because Wyvern Rider is a good class, but alternatively, you could just focus on Bows and make him a Sniper and he will still be able to fly as his personal class without ever needing to invest in training Flying.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Hubert: Noble->Monk->Dark Mage->Archer->Warlock->Dark Bishop->Dark Knight

I'd recommend Mage over Dark Mage for Fiendish Blow, possibly both. Archer is iffy, because Hit+20 is a good skill but he won't be able to use any magic as an Archer so he won't be very good during that time, and it takes a long time to master 3 Intermediate classes. There also isn't any point in making him a Warlock. Just go into Dark Bishop and then Dark Knight.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Dedue: Commoner->Fighter->Armored Knight->Brigand->Warrior->Fortress Knight->War Master

Like I said with Edelgard, I think it's better to commit to one path than trying to run multiple different paths at once like this. Certifying for Armor Knight for the Def boost is one thing but actually changing into the class probably isn't worth it unless you commit to the armored path and make him a Fortress Knight, but if the end goal is War Master then I recommend against making him a Fortress Knight even just for certifying because it takes an unnecessary amount of investment. I also recommend Grappler over Warrior unless you are going for a Wrath build.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Lorenz: Noble->Monk->Mage->Dark Mage->Warlock->Dark Bishop->Dark Knight

Lornez is a tricky unit to use. This build is decent for him, but I'd suggest considering taking advantage of his Combat Art, Frozen Lance.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Ferdinand: Noble->Soldier->Brigand->Fortress Knight->Paladin->Great Knight

Ferdinand mostly relies on Swift Strikes. I'd recommend taking out Fortress Knight and maybe Great Knight. Paladin actually has more Str than Great Knight and more Move. I'd also suggest switching Soldier to Fighter.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Felix: Noble->Myrmidon->Mercenary->Brigand->Swordmaster->Warrior->War Master

I don't see the point in Mercenary or Warrior unless you want to do a Vantage/Wrath build, and I don't see the point in Swordmaster at all. I'd suggest just Brigand -> Grappler -> Warmaster, or cut out Warmaster and stay as a Grappler.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Raphael: Commoner->Fighter->Armored Knight->Brigand->Warrior->Fortress Knight->War Master

Same thing, cut out Armor Knight, and Fortress Knight unless you want to commit to the armored path and switch Warrior to Grappler unless you want to make a Wrath build.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Lindhardt: Noble->Monk->Mage->Priest->Dark Bishop->Warlock->Bishop

Cut out Warlock and Dark Bishop. Just go straight to Bishop.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Ashe: Commoner->Fighter->Brigand->Archer->Warrior->Sniper->Bow Knight

Cut out Warrior unless you're doing a Wrath build.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Ignatz: Commoner->Fighter->Dark Mage->Archer->Assasain->Sniper->Bow Knight

This isn't bad. Maybe cut out Assassin unless you want to stay as an Assassin. Not sure what the point is in going out of the way for it by training Swords just to switch to Sniper and Bow Knight afterwards.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Caspar: Noble->Fighter->Mercenary->Brigand->Warrior->Grappler->War Master

Cut out Mercenary and Warrior unless doing a Vantage/Wrath build. You don't need to be both Warrior and Grappler. Grappler is better but if you are doing a Wrath build then I think you should just do Warrior -> Warmaster.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Sylvain: Noble->Monk->Mage->Cavalier->Paladin->Warlock->Dark Knight

I don't think Dark Knight is worth it for him, I think Paladin or Wyvern Rider are better for him, but if you want to make a Dark Knight then I guess this kind of build could sort of work. It's a bit strange. Sylvain learns Swift Strikes so I think it best to focus on that.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Lysithea: Noble->Monk->Mage->Priest->Bishop->Dark Knight->Gremory

Priest is unnecessary. I recommend going for Gremory or Dark Knight, not both.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Bernadetta: Noble->Fighter->Brigand->Archer->Paladin->Sniper->Bow Knight

Seems pretty good.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Mercedes: Commoner->Monk->Mage->Priest->Bishop->Warlock->Gremory

Cut out Warlock. Stay as a Bishop or go Bishop straight to Gremory.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Marianne: Noble->Monk->Priest->Pegasus Knight->Dancer->Bishop->Holy Knight

Take out Pegasus Knight. Consider Mage for fiendish Blow. Don't make her a Dancer unless you are going to keep her as a dancer to benefit from Dancing and if you want to make her something else then make someone else a Dancer. Consider keeping her as a Bishop instead of switching to Holy Knight, but I don't think Holy Knight is particularly bad like some people do, though Dark Knight is better if you reach high enough Reason to become one.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Dorothea: Commoner->Monk->Mage->Priest->Dancer->Bishop->Gremory

Same thing as above in regards to Dancer.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Annette: Noble->Monk->Mage->Priest->Warlock->Warrior->Gremory

Take out Priest and Warrior. I recommend Dark Knight over Gremory for Annette.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Hilda: Noble->Fighter->Brigand->Armored Knight->Warrior->Fortress Knight->Great Knight

I really think Wyvern Lord is Hilda's best class, and I think Pegasus Knight and Wyvern Rider are great classes for her. I recommend taking out Armor Knight, Warrior, and Fortress Knight. I mean, I guess if you really want to make her a Great Knight, you can, but then I still recommend taking out Warrior.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Petra: Commoner->Fighter->Mercenary->Brigand->Wyvern Rider->Assassain->Swordmaster

Take out Mercenary unless doing a Vantage/Wrath build. Commit to one of the Advance classes. Don't try to do three Advance classes in one path.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Ingrid: Noble->Soldier->Pegasus Knight->Cavalier->Brigand->Paladin->Falcon Knight


Take out Cavalier.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Leonie: Commoner->Fighter->Brigand->Cavalier->Paladin->Sniper->Bow Knight

Looks pretty good. Consider replacing Cavalier with Archer for Hit+20.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Cyril: Commoner->Fighter->Brigand->Archer->Wyvern Rider->Paladin->Wyvern Lord

Take out Paladin.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Flayn: Priest->Pegasus Knight->Bishop->Warlock->Gremory

Take out Pegasus Knight.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Catherine: Swordmaster->Mercenary->Archer->Brigand->Assassain->Swordmaster

Take out Mercenary unless doing a Vantage/Wrath build.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Shamir: Sniper->Archer->Pegasus Knight->Paladin->Bow Knight

Eh. I don't think Pegasus Knight is worth it for her unless you go for Wyvern Rider or Falcon Knight. Paladin and Bow Knight are iffy. One of her advantages is that she has early access to Hunter's Volley, and she loses that advantage if you take her out of that class.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Hanneman: Mage->Archer->Dark Bishop->Warlock

Archer might be worth it for Hit+20 but it's questionable. I recommend taking out Dark Bishop and make him a Dark Knight at the end. Dark Knight is better than Warlock.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Manuela: Priest->Pegasus Knight->Mercenary->Assassain->Falcon Knight

Take out Mercenary. Not sure if Assassin is worth it.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Alois: Warrior->Brigand->Armored Knight->Fortress Knight->War Master

I recommend against Armor Knight and Fortress Knight unless committing to the armored path. Warmaster is good.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Seteth: Wyvern Rider->Brigand->Armored Knight-Fortress Knight->Wyvern Lord

Armor Knight and Fortress Knight are too much investment and not worth it.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Gilbert: Fortress Knight->Brigand->Armored Knight->Paladin->Great Knight

Take out Armor Knight.

 

Those are my suggestions. If anyone who knows more than me thinks I said something wrong, then feel free to correct me.

 

16 minutes ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Dex% chance to reduce Bow and Magic Damage by half isn't good? On good Dex units that would get obliterated by Magic? Does not compute.

It's unreliable. If your unit can't survive without it activating then you shouldn't take that risk. If they can survive with out then it's not needed.

Edited by Whisky

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18 minutes ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Dex% chance to reduce Bow and Magic Damage by half isn't good? On good Dex units that would get obliterated by Magic? Does not compute.

For every chance you have to proc aegis, there’s a chance it doesn’t work and you die to the hit anyway. It’s also a skill slot you could use to improve that unit’s offence or some other utility. Aegis is good for dedicated tanks with good dexterity, but for primarily offensive units I don’t like it very much. And if you’re doing Ingrid as a dodge tank, ideally she wouldn’t get hit at all, so aegis never has a chance to be useful. 
Those are just my thoughts on it. 

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32 minutes ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Dex% chance to reduce Bow and Magic Damage by half isn't good? On good Dex units that would get obliterated by Magic? Does not compute.

As stated earlier, it's unreliable. You'd be better off having armored units, which I'm sure you're referring to, just avoid mages in the first place.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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39 minutes ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Dex% chance to reduce Bow and Magic Damage by half isn't good? On good Dex units that would get obliterated by Magic? Does not compute.

Because even if it procs, more often than not it won't save the unit.

Take Gilbert for example. Guy has 60 HP and 7 Res with 17 Dex at base. Now let's assume he came with Aegis and compared him to the mages right after his join chapter on Maddening.

As you can see, even with having it proced once, it still wouldn't matter aganist the Warlocks. Granted, he could use Pure Water, but if you think that's enough to survive the late game mages, you have another thing coming. Like just take a look at the mages in Chapter 22. And they make of the bulk of the enemy force in that chapter.

In short, taking hits in Maddening is just not very feasible without setup, and even then it's very easily countered.

Edited by LoneRecon400

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Is this being with NG+? Because that can affect how easy it would be to reach proficiencies. I love how you planned this all out beforehand; I do the same thing and think it's fun. My advice:

  • Byleth will be decent as a hybrid unit, but having them go down the sword path for so long only to switch them into Bishop sounds hard to do, since Byleth won't be able to use Faith magic until he class changes. Plus, he'll need an A ranking in Faith to get to Bishop and will be mediocre in that role, since his classes will direct him to more physical-oriented stats.
  • Nothing wrong will Edelgard's imo. I think you should learn Brigand first, just so you can spend some of the early game learning authority over armor and getting her Death Blow as early as possible.
  • Claude's might be a little difficult, but it's manageable. If you need to cut one out, I'd cut out Wyvern Rider, since he probably won't be in that class for too long anyway to get any mileage out of it.
  • Cut out Archer from Hubert. It will only fulfill a Magic Bow niche and it's not as useful as having access to a spell list and just giving him the Magic Bow anyways. Dark Bishop wouldn't be useful for his build either, but it wouldn't hurt him.
  • For Dedue, same as Edelgard.
  • Lorenz doesn't really need Dark Bishop, especially since he'll already know Fiendish Blow from Mage.
  • Felix's class path is on the long side. It would be hard for him to master them all if that's what you're trying to do. Since his end goal is War Master, you can cut out Swordmaster. It's not worth the trouble of raising his sword rank that high when he should be getting axes and brawling down.
  • Cut out Dark Bishop out of Linhardt's as well. You know what, just cut it out completely lol. Unless you really love that class, then use it. If you don't even like Dark Bishops, then don't bother.
  • For Ignatz it might be difficult for him to jump from Fighter to Dark Mage. Poison Strike is nice, especially on a character that won't do too much damage in general, but his STR will suffer more in that class. 
  • Sylvain will turn out to be a decent hybrid unit, but he's much more a physical kind of guy. Warlock may not be worth it, and it would be hard to get to A rank in Reason when he's just been training in lances and riding. It's too mixed. Pick either physical or magical and have that lead you to Dark Knight
  • I would cut out Dark Knight from Lysithea's path and go straight to Gremory. Having 2 master classes would be too hard to manage if you're trying to master one of them. If you want her to ride a mount, Valkyrie is a better choice for whatever build you're going for.
  • Bernadetta's is very mixed. Paladin may be too hard for her to acquire in such a succession. 
  • Why make Marianne a dancer if that's not her endgame class? Also, having to manage 2 separate riding proficiencies on top of the magic proficiencies you want her to learn will be difficult to acquire. If she's going to be in a support role, she doesn't need to go through Peg Knight to get Darting Blow. If she won't see too much combat, then that skill won't be the most useful for her. Holy Knight is a meh class and she's better off staying a Bishop or becoming a Dark Knight/Valkyrie/Dark Flier.
  • Again, why make Dorothea a dancer if that's not her endgame class? Also, switch out Bishop for Warlock so she gets more uses out of Meteor.
  • Annette as a Warrior is gimmicky and definitely not worth the gimmick here because all of her stats will be biased towards magic. She'll only be able to use the lightning axe and that's it. It's not worth losing her spells imo.
  • Petra's is too mixed as well. You're asking her to learn high ranks of Sword, Axes, Bows, and Flying. I'd remove Wyvern Rider from your plan, because having a flying unit suddenly go footlocked will only make you miss the movement they had before.
  • Ingrid's is wayyy too long. And if you're going to put Brigand that late her class set, you might as well not put it at all. By the time she gets there, her STR should be decent enough to kill reliably.
  • Leonie's list is too long as well. You may need to cut Sniper and go straight to Bow Knight.
  • Cyril as a Paladin is too out of place. He's already learning Axes, Bows, and Flying, adding two things that aren't his boon will take too long.
  • Flayn will serve more as a support unit than an offensive unit, so she doesn't need to go through Peg Knight (and be horrible at it) just to get Darting Blow.
  • Catherine comes in already busted. Having her go to a smaller tier class doesn't help her too much. Plus, that's wayyyy too many classes and she comes in late during Part 1.
  • Like Catherine, Shamir doesn't really need to go back down to Archer. She already functions well. Just get her to Bow Knight. She doesn't need Cavalier's and Paladin's defensive skills because there's not too many times where the enemy can counter attack her.
  • Hanneman- same as Hubert
  • For Manuela, cut out Assassin and replace it with Trickster or something. Or delete it entirely. No sense in trying to get her to learn bows when she needs to be focusing HARD on lances and flying.
  • Alois- don't bother with the armor classes
  • Seteth- same as Alois
  • Gilbert- Gilbert comes in EXTREMELY late. Maybe go through Brigand, not through Armor Knight, and maybe stick with Paladin/GK.

Some of these class lines are wayyyyy too long and just have unnecessary classes for what I think you're trying to go for. Don't try to pin too many proficiencies on one character. They can be a jack of all trades, but they will be able to master none.

When coming up with class planning, always think first

"What do I want this character to do?", then think of the necessary steps to get there. Be especially mindful when making magic characters, because switching to a physical class halts their magic growth AND the skill they gain from it may not be too great anyways. Don't make support characters suddenly offensive characters or vice versa. Having certain skills sounds good on paper, but remember, this a game with a finite amount of time to grow and plan.

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Not with NG+, also I would never do Maddening as I'm not a Masochist. I appreciate challenge, but not impossibility. Note on my Fire Emblem experiences: I have played mostly Fire Emblems 7 and 8 and I've never beaten a single one. I love the series but terrible at it.

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5 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Armored classes are pretty bad in this game, and applying Dex% Proc skills isn't really going to save them.

Not only do they get one rounded by most mages, if they get hit by an enemy Gambit they'll often just get 2 rounded since battalions make up a quater of their defense. If you ever want a durable unit, just apply a unit with Impregnable Wall.

It'd just better to go Warrior -> Wyvern Lord and use Wrath + Defiant Crit along with Alert Stance + if you want a unit for Enemy Phase.

For what it's worth, I've gotten solid use out of certain units in armored builds, particularly in Maddening Mode. Gilbert on Blue Lions, and now Balthus on Silver Snow, are very good at luring physical attackers - and responding with decent damage. You have to be wary of mages and gambits, of course - but the gambit part is true for avoid-stacking units, too.

Anyway, on female units, I really like mastering both flying classes, for Defiant Avo and Defiant Crit. Combined with Alert Stance +, you never get hit, and you crit in return. Admittedly, though, two Master class masteries is a high bar of setup.

Not gonna defend Aegis though. Others have pointed out that it's just not reliable. And even halving the damage from one magical attack is no guarantee of survival when getting doubled.

7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

In order: Any, Any, As many as needed, Duh, As many as possible. This is an in general thing, not for specific routes. Also I know they're too long the point in this is asking to shorten them. Ferdinand's going Fortress Knight is for the Mastery Skill, not dodgetank. Also Marianne is a perfect fit for Holy Knight, same reason for Sylvain as a Dark Knight.

And this is the problem with this list, in general. Different class progressions make sense with one another. Like, on my current playthrough, I'm doing a magical Ferdinand. So I went Monk -> Dark Mage / Priest -> Dark Bishop -> Dark Knight. Whereas last time, when I made him a Dancer, I went Myrmidon -> Thief -> Dancer. And before that, I did a classic mounted build, of Soldier -> Cavalier -> Paladin. These sets of classes made sense with one another (even if they weren't necessarily optimal), but wouldn't make any sense if I put them together in a word salad.

Like, take

11 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Annette: Noble->Monk->Mage->Priest->Warlock->Warrior->Gremory

Getting her Axe rank up for Warrior doesn't fit with anything else here. If you do want to make her a Warrior, I'd suggest going either A) Monk -> Mage/Brigand -> Warrior (for a magical axe build), or B) Fighter -> Brigand/Pegasus -> Warrior (for a full-physical build). Warrior is still inferior to her ideal physical class (Wyvern Lord), but at least these courses are internally consistent. Similarly,

11 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Cyril: Commoner->Fighter->Brigand->Archer->Wyvern Rider->Paladin->Wyvern Lord

If you're doing a horseback Cyril, I would suggest Soldier -> Cavalier/Brigand -> Paladin, or Fighter -> Archer/Cavalier -> Paladin -> Bow Knight. Paladin is a fine class for him, it just doesn't fit well with the Wyvern classes. This line would honestly be fine for a given playthrough, with Paladin excised.

My honest suggestion is this: rather than giving a listing of all the classes you plan to use each character in across all playthroughs, why not make a shorter, tighter list of class lines for each playthrough you plan to do? That way, you can consider elements such as team composition, too. And if you're using one character on multiple routes, you might enjoy building them totally differently the second time. Good luck!

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15 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Byleth: Commoner->Myrmidon->Mage->Bishop->Enlightened One

I would go for Thief over Mage and Bishop.

15 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Felix: Noble->Myrmidon->Mercenary->Brigand->Swordmaster->Warrior->War Master

The fact that this needs a lot of training in swords, axes, and brawling is off-putting. You'd be better off chopping either the sword classes or the axe classes.

15 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Annette: Noble->Monk->Mage->Priest->Warlock->Warrior->Gremory

As stated earlier, Warrior is blatantly out of place. 

15 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Marianne: Noble->Monk->Mage->Priest->Bishop->Holy Knight

I would consider going for Gremory instead of Holy Knight. Or even staying in Bishop. Holy Knight is too much effort and not worth it.

15 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Hanneman: Mage->Dark Bishop->Warlock

Drop Dark Bishop.

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People have already knocked Aegis so I won't bother doing it too. I just wanted to add that if this is a Normal/Hard NG, and you're planning to use every unit throughout, then you won't achieve Master class mastery for almost all of them, and in general getting everyone to masteries throughout their progression is gonna be tough without grinding. I know everyone in the comments keeps harping on about context, but without context like that the comments become less useful and misdirected.

 

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For Ashe I think I prefer: Commoner->Fighter->Brigand->Thief  for earlier classes for Steal to go with his Locktouch.  

ngl, While I see it working with Bow Knight, I would prefer to send him down the Wyvern route, with bow as a main weapon. Not essential, but it's fun. He can act more independently to steal/snipe chests. On AM you can steal stat boosters on the Silver Maiden Paralogue, and Ladislava's Aurora Shield. If he ends up being str screwed, there's Seal Def from Wyvern Rider which also stacks with Waning shot at A in Bows. 

It's definitely fine for Normal/Hard. I also think this probably works best on AM. There's a bit of investment, and I don't remember many notable things to steal on other routes.

Edited by ruruo

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7 hours ago, ChaosStar0 said:

Regarding people's confusion for getting Warrior on a Magic Annette build, it's mostly a remember to certify her for it so she'd have a 19 Strength.

That would be nice, but keep in mind - you need B+ Axes for a good shot at certifying in Warrior. That's instructing time that could be spent on Faith (for Gremory) or Authority (for better battalions, plus her rally support). 19 Strength is good to offset spell weight, but not worth devoting the effort into reaching B+ Axes, when she's probably not using them much in battle.

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