Owns Posted August 13, 2020 Author Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Cysx said: Wait, no, my argument never was that deathblow is indispensable, I was asking for a good reason to skip it. Though to be frank, guaranteeing kills on roughly half the maps, that doesn't sound awful, but then again, ch 20 has a lot of low def enemies. 23 hours ago, Owns said: You're not factoring in all the extra Wexp you could be getting from class weapon proficiency being in the right class as opposed to sidetracking to Brigand for Deathblow. I don't think it'll make up the gap, but I wouldn't think it insignificant either, I don't have those numbers to crunch either way. That's fair, though this is easy to calculate. It takes 50 rounds of combat to master Brigand, and Archer gets +2 bow exp per fight, so that amounts to a clean 100 Wexp loss. Added to the 180 *1.5(because boon) from earlier, that's 370 bow Wexp. Which isn't nothing, but still not that significant. Also, crit builds usually don't need S+ rank in the first place, as they deal enough damage already. Well, if they have Deathblow, anyway, but foregoing a +6 damage boost for most of the game in order to get a +5 one at the end... that just doesn't make much sense. Which I wish I brought up earlier. Fair enough, and you're right to point out that deathblow gives you an early +6 to +12 damage which is very valuable. Just to be clear though what I said was "i wouldn't go out of my way for it", which I admit is vague. I guess the way I see it is this: if a character doesn't have a boon in Axes, and I'm building them as an archer, there's no overlap whatsoever with axes. That means I need to spend time training axes and fighting as a Brigand (sacrificing +1 range of archer) for an ability that is useful but might not be that important. There's two things I usually consider with something like this: 1) What else could I be doing with my time? 2) How many total skills do I want to train for that character's final build? If I'm building someone as say a sniper or swordmaster (essentially a route that requires fewer weapons in its certifications) then I consider that a low investment character. Stick with Bows / Swords, Auth, done. This means I can spend more time on other characters and that's valuable. Someone training to be a warmaster on the other hand needs an A in both Axes and Brawling, on top of Auth, and might want to pickup Heavy Armor for Armored Blow as well, or a Weight -3. So being able to train one character less, means I can train someone else more. Similarly if I'm going Bow Knight or any riding class really, you need the main weapon at A, Riding at A (eventually), Auth, and lances at C. (I usually shoot for at least B Auth on all characters, with maybe a few reaching A and a couple remaining on C). This is not to mention that by training others less (in other words spending less activity points or money to boost their motivation, means I can train Byleth more as well). Edit: Admittedly my "crit build" characters do tend to fall off in the early-mid game before become useful again once their crit improves with Killer weapons and stats. So it helps if they have support skills too for that period of very low damage. That about sums up how I look at things, I might be exaggerating how much investment getting actually Deathblow is, admittedly it isn't a whole lot but still getting it on every physical unit is not only a pain to me, is also unnecessary. If I'm sticking with Sniper, that's a very low investment build, I guess might as well pick it up (especially on someone like Ashe who has a boon in Axes), but then again maybe I won't (just so I can reduce that character's training) and they'll still be useful. 10 hours ago, Cysx said: but in my head a 50% chance to crit 5 times amounts to 2.5 crits, not 3. Not sure what you're doing here but the way I calculated it is following the probability of getting "at least" X number of crits out of 5 total attempts. This is very different from asking for example 3 crits in a row (which for a 50% chance would be 0.5^3 = 12.5%), actually this is the calculation for getting all 5 hits to crit. I do appreciate people checking my math as I'm not particularly great at it either and am prone to errors so if anyone spots anything or is able to check my work then by all means let me know. And yes, as @haarhaarhaar also pointed out, you have to actually Hit first before Critical Hit is even considered. Everything above assumes a Hit of 100. While this is unreasonable for sure, having a variable Hit analysis would 1) be a nightmare, 2) not too relevant from the point of view of comparison anyway since Hit always applies whether you're considering Crit or not. There is a point to be made that Astra does have a -10 Hit which is bad though. Surely there's a lot that can be criticized and debated about my analysis and thoughts, the least of which is that I randomly picked Ignatz and GD Ch. 20 enemy units as my sample case and the results might be very different on another map or character. I'd say the most takeaways are probably the Effective Crit graphs (ie the first one in OP) and the Astra chance to crit graph too since they can be used as a reference. And then also, I hope that by exploring the mechanics of how these probabilities work, it shows that crits can be a lot better than they look based on the displayed Crit since that doesn't factor in the number of hits you will be dealing in attack (what I call effective crit). 10 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said: Isn't there only one Cursed Ashiya Sword available per run? Oh you're right, I thought i remembered having 2 in my last run, but that must've been the 2 dropped Wo Daos. My bad. 10 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said: Another potential solution to the lack of late-game killing power is to try and find a better unit for this build - Felix is an obvious candidate, and will have better Dex/Luck than Catherine, but I doubt it would be enough to make a real difference. The only people I can think of who might really make a difference would be Ingrid and Sylvain, whose Crests have 40% percent activation rate to raise CA Mt by 5 (which means you can probably rely on them triggering twice per Astra). Ingrid in particular will need Strength help to be of real use, but it's not impossible to achieve. These are interesting considerations. For what it's worth, if I simply change the average stats calculator to Felix, he'd have 9 more str than Ignatz at lv 35, which is huge, similar if you do this with Byleth. Doesn't Felix's crest also activate with combat arts? I thought that was the case. And yes, Astra Lethality would be an interesting gamble to use, a 1/4 to 1/3 chance when using Astra isn't so bad tbh. If I didn't expect to get the kill any other way, I'd probably attempt Astra with a training sword and just test my luck with Lethality (assuming I can survive a counter or have good chances to evade, there's always divine pulse to fall back on too). Edited August 13, 2020 by Owns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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