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Seazas

I really hope Royal Sword is a constant part of Alm's kit in future games/appearances involving him

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Royal Sword really had an increase in memorability and identity from Gaiden. It correlates incredibly well to the themes and Celica's new prf sword: Beloved Zofia.

It also helps give Alm a different standout weapon than being another Falchion user among Falchion users. Alm's Falchion is easily the least standout, has the least screentime and completely vanishes off the face of the earth,

Spoiler

lodged in Duma's skull and completely gone. With the only weapon remaining being "Alm's Blade" in Awakening.

.

With his amiibo completely locking Alm in future games with compatibility or just general spinoffs featuring FE characters. I really hope we don't have another Heroes where Royal Sword was completely shafted. 

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Yes, 100%. Times like this I wish we could Like posts. The Royal Sword really is Alm's signature weapon, being depicted in his official render (and thusly, his amiibo). The Falchions have had more than enough spotlight, especially in Heroes, and even Smash has 3 of the 4.

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32 minutes ago, Baron the Shining Blade said:

Yes, 100%. Times like this I wish we could Like posts. The Royal Sword really is Alm's signature weapon, being depicted in his official render (and thusly, his amiibo). The Falchions have had more than enough spotlight, especially in Heroes, and even Smash has 3 of the 4.

Glad we agree.

Although technically it's 5 with Itsuki being apart of Heroes, a mainline FE nowadays. However, in terms of official debuts... Yeah, it's 4. 

The Royal Sword is great and can do anything Valentia's Kingsfang can do skill wise outside of slaying dragon gods that have a specific sealing spell like Duma. Which is extremely niche ability wise in spinoffs and future appearances FE chars are thrown in.

It's silly how much shine Royal Sword has yet it's so utterly shafted.

maxresdefault.thumb.jpg.7c91771aef95c7f2d59f380aae3cebcb.jpgRoyal-Sword.png.80c99d5b1482eca17d890b6cf01337c4.png

It's even on the main box artwork and yet...

fab1b64b9c2e254da8af782859fb2b37640ab228.jpg

Edited by Seazas

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Alm's weapon? You mean Silque's?

Yeah, Royal Sword is cool, and I agree that it differentiates Alm from the other Falchion users. My only gripe with it is that it doesn't have a cool name- you've got stuff like Tyrfing, Ragnell, Durandal, and then there's just Royal Sword.

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14 minutes ago, Anathaco said:

Alm's weapon? You mean Silque's?

Yeah, Royal Sword is cool, and I agree that it differentiates Alm from the other Falchion users. My only gripe with it is that it doesn't have a cool name- you've got stuff like Tyrfing, Ragnell, Durandal, and then there's just Royal Sword.

They can't all be winners. Even if the Royal Sword isn't Alm's main weapon, it'd be nice seeing it in his moveset options anyway.

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39 minutes ago, Seazas said:

They can't all be winners. Even if the Royal Sword isn't Alm's main weapon, it'd be nice seeing it in his moveset options anyway.

Why not rename it something in contrast to Beloved Zofia?

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7 hours ago, Seazas said:

Royal Sword really had an increase in memorability and identity from Gaiden. It correlates incredibly well to the themes and Celica's new prf sword: Beloved Zofia.

It also helps give Alm a different standout weapon than being another Falchion user among Falchion users. Alm's Falchion is easily the least standout, has the least screentime and completely vanishes off the face of the earth

the Falchion in the original Gaiden was actually the hardest weapon to get in the final chapters of the game, probably harder to obtain than the treasures hidden in Lost Woods.

you had to face many traps and choose between different paths with Alm's party on the way down to the Falchion's room, while leaving Celica's party fighting off monsters in Duma's room.

not much was mentioned about it in Gaiden and it was more of an additional weapon, rather than being an integral part of the story like it was in FE1/3, where there was some lore behind it and you had to obtain it by defeating Garnef.

 

to be honest, Alm's shield was even more memorable than the Falchion in both Gaiden/Echoes. not only because it was a nice visual upgrade after promotion, but also because in both games, during the last battle, he drops it down like a badass before jumping on Duma's head to deal the final blow.

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Personally I was always in favor of them renaming Alm's Falchion.

 

And judging by the prerelase poll I made, most others were in favor of that too. It was always weird he and Marth had the same sword, though by establishing that Duma and Mila actually are dragons and introducing Naga into the backstory of them winding up in Valentia, I actually think they did a rather decent job of implementing it into Archanea canon. Just a major shame now Walhart didn't wield it in Awakening. That would have done so much for his foil with Chrom by having them wield the same sword.

21 minutes ago, 𝙵ᴇɴʀᴇɪʀ said:

the Falchion in the original Gaiden was actually the hardest weapon to get in the final chapters of the game, probably harder to obtain than the treasures hidden in Lost Woods.

you had to face many traps and choose between different paths with Alm's party on the way down to the Falchion's room, while leaving Celica's party fighting off monsters in Duma's room.

not much was mentioned about it in Gaiden and it was more of an additional weapon, rather than being an integral part of the story like it was in FE1/3, where there was some lore behind it and you had to obtain it by defeating Garnef.

 

to be honest, Alm's shield was even more memorable than the Falchion in both Gaiden/Echoes. not only because it was a nice visual upgrade after promotion, but also because in both games, during the last battle, he drops it down like a badass before jumping on Duma's head to deal the final blow.

I wouldn't say it's an additional weapon in Gaiden. I don't think it was there intention for you to kill Duma with Nosferatu with Falchion being some kind of secret alternative. Nosferatu is a glitch (it's keyed in unchangable 50% hit overrides Duma's seal attack status). You can't beat the game without Falchion. And hardest wepaon in the game  to get? Ha. Luna, Sol and Astra laugh in the face of that (and to a lesser extent Gradivus too).

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3 hours ago, 𝙵ᴇɴʀᴇɪʀ said:

the Falchion in the original Gaiden was actually the hardest weapon to get in the final chapters of the game, probably harder to obtain than the treasures hidden in Lost Woods.

you had to face many traps and choose between different paths with Alm's party on the way down to the Falchion's room, while leaving Celica's party fighting off monsters in Duma's room.

not much was mentioned about it in Gaiden and it was more of an additional weapon, rather than being an integral part of the story like it was in FE1/3, where there was some lore behind it and you had to obtain it by defeating Garnef.

 

to be honest, Alm's shield was even more memorable than the Falchion in both Gaiden/Echoes. not only because it was a nice visual upgrade after promotion, but also because in both games, during the last battle, he drops it down like a badass before jumping on Duma's head to deal the final blow.

It was so questionable. Falchion not being required when it's the only way to slay Duma outside of Nosferatu is ridiculous. At the very least Echoes gave it more value and narrative importance even if I prefer the Royal Sword over the Kingsfang. 

No wonder barely anyone talked about Alm's Falchion even to this day. The shield and final map music really stole the show.

7 hours ago, Light Strategist said:

Why not rename it something in contrast to Beloved Zofia?

Don't know, that would be cool but it already had an established canon name so... Makes sense they didn't touch it. Echoes barely renamed anything to the point the cast's japanese names are the same I think.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Personally I was always in favor of them renaming Alm's Falchion.

 

And judging by the prerelase poll I made, most others were in favor of that too. It was always weird he and Marth had the same sword, though by establishing that Duma and Mila actually are dragons and introducing Naga into the backstory of them winding up in Valentia, I actually think they did a rather decent job of implementing it into Archanea canon. Just a major shame now Walhart didn't wield it in Awakening. That would have done so much for his foil with Chrom by having them wield the same sword.

I wouldn't say it's an additional weapon in Gaiden. I don't think it was there intention for you to kill Duma with Nosferatu with Falchion being some kind of secret alternative. Nosferatu is a glitch (it's keyed in unchangable 50% hit overrides Duma's seal attack status). You can't beat the game without Falchion. And hardest wepaon in the game  to get? Ha. Luna, Sol and Astra laugh in the face of that (and to a lesser extent Gradivus too).

I mean, they did attempt to give Alm's Falchion more memorability by making it an important non missable item and even referred to it differently with an alternative title "Kingsfang", unfortunately that alternative naming title clearly didn't stick in the future appearances involving Alm. They just stuck with the bread and butter: Falchion.

Royal Sword is better and deserves to be a constant main weapon. It's used by Alm constantly in Echoes and had more CG and art action than Falchion itself.

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12 hours ago, Seazas said:

With his amiibo completely locking Alm in future games with compatibility or just general spinoffs featuring FE characters.

Not necessarily. I have a Gracie amiibo card and all it does in New Horizons is give me a Gracie poster. Something similar might happen to Alm's amiibo,  just giving the player something trivial.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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51 minutes ago, Seazas said:

It was so questionable. Falchion not being required when it's the only way to slay Duma outside of Nosferatu is ridiculous. At the very least Echoes gave it more value and narrative importance even if I prefer the Royal Sword over the Kingsfang. 

No wonder barely anyone talked about Alm's Falchion even to this day. The shield and final map music really stole the show.

Don't know, that would be cool but it already had an established canon name so... Makes sense they didn't touch it. Echoes barely renamed anything to the point the cast's japanese names are the same I think.

I mean, they did attempt to give Alm's Falchion more memorability by making it an important non missable item and even referred to it differently with an alternative title "Kingsfang", unfortunately that alternative naming title clearly didn't stick in the future appearances involving Alm. They just stuck with the bread and butter: Falchion.

Royal Sword is better and deserves to be a constant main weapon. It's used by Alm constantly in Echoes and had more CG and art action than Falchion itself.

Alm uses the Royal Sword throughout Echoes because he doesn't have the Falchion throughout Echoes. Marth is the same.

Spoiler

 

FE11

I don't know exactly what sword that's meant to be (definitely doesn't look like a rapier though), but it's not his Falchion, as that's Shadow Dragon artwork and Falchion does retain its design in that game.

Regalia - Fire Emblem Wiki

In New mystery he wields a similar sword

FE12

It's roughly the same shape but doesn't look as swanky.

And for another lord,

FE9

FE10

 

Ike clearly doesn't use Ragnell in his artwork for either game either. So the series has actually been reasonably consistent in not showing off lords with their end game weapons. Now as far as Alm and the Royal Sword goes, he doesn't get it any of his incarnations in Heroes (though it's still present in the game on a Celica alt). Though curiously one of Alm's two Falchions is called the DracoFalchion instead of King's Fang, which is a bit disappointing. And I checked the Japanese script, it's not a mistranslation thing (Mila says 王の牙-King's Fang in Echoes while Alm's Heroes weapon is the rather wordy 竜剣ファルシオン-Dragon Sword Falchion. The fact they didn't go with King's Fang is a bit baffling to me).

Now curious, despite Celica getting her own prf sword in Echoes, there's no artwork of her actually ever using Beloved Zofia in Echoes. She's always wielding the Ladyblade, even during her FMV fight with Alm. Even warriors gives her the Ladyblade, though she does get the Beloved Zofia in her witch incarnation in Heroes. Not even her optionial post game RIgean outfit concept art gives her Beloved Zofia (though I'm not sure what sword it is meant to be, doesn't look like either Ladyblade or Beloved Zofia). No doubt this is because you can go the entire game without ever promoting the Golden Dagger into Beloved Zofia.

Edited by Jotari

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29 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Alm uses the Royal Sword throughout Echoes because he doesn't have the Falchion throughout Echoes. Marth is the same.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

FE11

I don't know exactly what sword that's meant to be (definitely doesn't look like a rapier though), but it's not his Falchion, as that's Shadow Dragon artwork and Falchion does retain its design in that game.

Regalia - Fire Emblem Wiki

In New mystery he wields a similar sword

FE12

It's roughly the same shape but doesn't look as swanky.

And for another lord,

FE9

FE10

 

Ike clearly doesn't use Ragnell in his artwork for either game either. So the series has actually been reasonably consistent in not showing off lords with their end game weapons. Now as far as Alm and the Royal Sword goes, he doesn't get it any of his incarnations in Heroes (though it's still present in the game on a Celica alt). Though curiously one of Alm's two Falchions is called the DracoFalchion instead of King's Fang, which is a bit disappointing. And I checked the Japanese script, it's not a mistranslation thing.

Now curious, despite Celica getting her own prf sword in Echoes, there's no artwork of her actually ever using Beloved Zofia in Echoes. She's always wielding the Ladyblade, even during her FMV fight with Alm. Even warriors gives her the Ladyblade, though she does get the Beloved Zofia in her witch incarnation in Heroes. Not even her optionial post game RIgean outfit concept art gives her Beloved Zofia (though I'm not sure what sword it is meant to be, doesn't look like either Ladyblade or Beloved Zofia). No doubt this is because you can go the entire game without ever promoting the Golden Dagger into Beloved Zofia.

Here's the difference between Alm and those other two... Alm's "endgame weapon" has no identity and legacy of its own. They couldn't even give it a different name and the instant Echoes provided an alternative name opportunities like "Kingsfang", Falchion and Falchion alone in title has been the generic tried and true for Alm's version of it. 

Spoiler

Also, Alm loses the weapon entirely since he just left it in Duma's head. Marth and Ike primarily keep those blades as a central part of their legacy one way or another. So it's a lot easier to say Marth and Ike's main weapons are those. Royal Sword by default is more important than the generic swords Ike and Marth wield in their artwork.

While in Awakening where every other lord has their legendary endgame weapon referenced in their legacy. Alm's Falchion is nowhere to be seen. Instead the only source of Alm's legacy weapon wise is the Royal Sword aka "Alm's Blade". It getting a design of its own and even a unique ability "Double Lion" just makes me want the Royal Sword to be involved with Alm more. Hell, it can even learn Scendscale. Alm's final personal ability. 

Although, it sucks that Beloved Zofia isn't used more. It at least was used by a Celica in Heroes. I want to see it in Celica's primary inventory in future entries. I'll give Warriors a pass because the Celica there is just a barebones Gaiden Celica but with Echoes' design. They didn't get her character right, nor display her spells to resemble the Echoes counterpart. It makes sense though, she was clearly an Intsys choice and Warriors devs didn't have much to work with at the time. 

44 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Not necessarily. I have a Gracie amiibo card and all it does in New Horizons is give me a Gracie poster. Something similar might happen to Alm's amiibo,  just giving the player something trivial.

You never know. 2/3 mainline games with amiibo support had units to some degree. Additionally, I included spinoffs in general that will likely feature Alm not just amiibo carrying. 

Edited by Seazas

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38 minutes ago, Seazas said:

I included spinoffs in general that will likely feature Almcy

How is Alm "likely" to be featured in the future? Echoes is massively overshadowed by both Fates and Three Houses, which in effect makes him a nobody. Ike at least still has some relevancy due to being one of the FE reps in Super Smash Bros.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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1 hour ago, NinjaMonkey said:

How is Alm "likely" to be featured in the future? Echoes is massively overshadowed by both Fates and Three Houses, which in effect makes him a nobody. Ike at least still has some relevancy due to being one of the FE reps in Super Smash Bros.

Alm isn't a nobody, he's fairly popular and featured in FE stuff. Echoes wasn't as popular but it still sold well enough. I firmly believe in at least SOME future FE content, Alm's popularity and amiibo presence will get him content. Even if Echoes doesn't get as much as Awakening in terms of who's taken from the cast, Alm and Celica should at least show up fairly often due to being lords, automatically making them more popular/significant than 70% of FE characters. Alm and Celica aren't as iconic as Lucina, Chrom and Marth. But they should at least get some action even if it's just Alm and Celica repping Echoes and them alone (rip Clive, Tobin and other good side chars).

Edited by Seazas

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8 hours ago, Seazas said:

Here's the difference between Alm and those other two... Alm's "endgame weapon" has no identity and legacy of its own. They couldn't even give it a different name and the instant Echoes provided an alternative name opportunities like "Kingsfang", Falchion and Falchion alone in title has been the generic tried and true for Alm's version of it. 

  Hide contents

Also, Alm loses the weapon entirely since he just left it in Duma's head. Marth and Ike primarily keep those blades as a central part of their legacy one way or another. So it's a lot easier to say Marth and Ike's main weapons are those. Royal Sword by default is more important than the generic swords Ike and Marth wield in their artwork.

While in Awakening where every other lord has their legendary endgame weapon referenced in their legacy. Alm's Falchion is nowhere to be seen. Instead the only source of Alm's legacy weapon wise is the Royal Sword aka "Alm's Blade". It getting a design of its own and even a unique ability "Double Lion" just makes me want the Royal Sword to be involved with Alm more. Hell, it can even learn Scendscale. Alm's final personal ability. 

Although, it sucks that Beloved Zofia isn't used more. It at least was used by a Celica in Heroes. I want to see it in Celica's primary inventory in future entries. I'll give Warriors a pass because the Celica there is just a barebones Gaiden Celica but with Echoes' design. They didn't get her character right, nor display her spells to resemble the Echoes counterpart. It makes sense though, she was clearly an Intsys choice and Warriors devs didn't have much to work with at the time. 

You never know. 2/3 mainline games with amiibo support had units to some degree. Additionally, I included spinoffs in general that will likely feature Alm not just amiibo carrying. 

Alm's not the only one who got shafted by legendary weapon use in Heroes. Roy had the basic Roy's blade too even though the sword of seals is super important to him, being tied to his promotion and being the name of his entire game. In fact none of the GBA lords have their legendary weapons present in Awakening. And the only reason Genealogy lords have Tyrfing there is because they brought back all the holy wepaons, not that there's any special connection between Seliph and Sigurd and Tyrfing, both of them getting their own Seliph's Sword and Sigurd's Lance, also no sign of Leif's light sword or Blagi sword. Awakening's a terrible example as the only lords who did get their associated weapons were the two I brought up, Marth and Ike, and Awakening's Ragnell can't even shoot sword beams -_-

I also think you're reaching a bit saying the Alm just leaves Falchion inside Duma's head. Mila intentionally sealed Falchion to stop it being removed again, there's no evidence to suggest Duma had the same intentions and there's no reason at all Alm would just leave his ancient family heirloom inside Duma's head for no reason at all. Especially if we're to consider the Alm vs Grima showdown canon. And as far as its legacy as a weapon goes it has just as much legacy as Marth's Falchion if not more, being an ancient weapon we actually see used in game by multiple characters against multiple opposing enemies. But even then, would you say Tyrfing is not associated with Sigurd who had it for all of vie minutes before he's killed? Or that Ragnell is not associated with Path of Radiance Ike who has it for even less time before he gives it away at the end of the game (both Heroes and Brawl use Path of Radiance Ike with Ragnell as it happens).

Now with all that said, I don't actually disagree that the Royal Sword should be an associated Alm weapon. It's a cool looking sword and Double Lion is great (real shame the Falchion can't use it). I just don't think the way to achieve that is by tearing his Falchion down which is also a fine sword in its own right. Course we all know Alm's affinity weapon is the Killer Bow.

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Alm's not the only one who got shafted by legendary weapon use in Heroes. Roy had the basic Roy's blade too even though the sword of seals is super important to him, being tied to his promotion and being the name of his entire game. In fact none of the GBA lords have their legendary weapons present in Awakening. And the only reason Genealogy lords have Tyrfing there is because they brought back all the holy wepaons, not that there's any special connection between Seliph and Sigurd and Tyrfing, both of them getting their own Seliph's Sword and Sigurd's Lance, also no sign of Leif's light sword or Blagi sword. Awakening's a terrible example as the only lords who did get their associated weapons were the two I brought up, Marth and Ike, and Awakening's Ragnell can't even shoot sword beams -_-

I also think you're reaching a bit saying the Alm just leaves Falchion inside Duma's head. Mila intentionally sealed Falchion to stop it being removed again, there's no evidence to suggest Duma had the same intentions and there's no reason at all Alm would just leave his ancient family heirloom inside Duma's head for no reason at all. Especially if we're to consider the Alm vs Grima showdown canon. And as far as its legacy as a weapon goes it has just as much legacy as Marth's Falchion if not more, being an ancient weapon we actually see used in game by multiple characters against multiple opposing enemies. But even then, would you say Tyrfing is not associated with Sigurd who had it for all of vie minutes before he's killed? Or that Ragnell is not associated with Path of Radiance Ike who has it for even less time before he gives it away at the end of the game (both Heroes and Brawl use Path of Radiance Ike with Ragnell as it happens).

Now with all that said, I don't actually disagree that the Royal Sword should be an associated Alm weapon. It's a cool looking sword and Double Lion is great (real shame the Falchion can't use it). I just don't think the way to achieve that is by tearing his Falchion down which is also a fine sword in its own right. Course we all know Alm's affinity weapon is the Killer Bow.

There's no excuse for Alm. At least Roy and co aren't apart of Awakening's continuity. Chrom and the rest of his squad literally goes to Valentia or rather "Valm". No Kingsfang in sight when Awakening also represented Tyrfing (not just Ragnell and Falchion) is just ridiculous. Even worse when Alm's blade resembles the Royal Sword and overall showcases Alm's legacy in Awakening's continuity. 

It's the only reason that makes sense. Specifically with the last time we see Duma is this and this is one of the final shots from the entire game:

Spoiler

Untitled.thumb.png.5040f618e945380d42e7e91865bfe8ec.png

and not once is Alm and Celica shown to take Falchion back. Nor is anything referenced in Echoes media of Alm and Celica passing the Falchion on or taking it back at all.

It's just the most logical conclusion to make. The Alm and Grima showdown isn't canon either, it contradicts canon (where Valentia is being rebuilt and many of our party members immediately retire) nor does it involve Alm and Celica speaking a word. It just doesn't make sense nor does it mean Falchion had to be used during that fight. Grima isn't Duma. Grima didn't have a spell like Duma's during that fight. Anyone in the party could've defeated him. Grima felt like a fun secret boss in Echoes that elaborates on his lore.

 

"And as far as its legacy as a weapon goes it has just as much legacy as Marth's Falchion if not more, being an ancient weapon we actually see used in game by multiple characters against multiple opposing enemies."

That's the problem. Alm 's Falchion isn't Marth's. It isn't a weapon that received multiple uses like how Chrom and Lucina's Falchions are essentially Marth's. Alm's is just a second one that vanishes entirely. It doesn't show up in more than one mainline game, serves one singular purpose, doesn't have a unique name and identity of its own and just... vanishes with none of Alm's line using it. Tyrfing is associated with Sigurd since his son still uses it and keeps it around. It clearly lasted until Awakening too unlike Alm's Falchion. Ragnell has a unique name and identity of its own unlike the Kingsfang, primarily known as another Falchion. Ike also uses it again in Radiant Dawn and even leaves with it. It doesn't completely vanish like Alm's sword does since it's still used by Priam.

I actually find the Kingsfang fine, especially after reading the timeline where it's meant to go side by side with Ragnarok. The Royal Sword is just way more interesting and represents so much. I want the Royal Sword to at the very least be a common part of Alm's tool kit. 

Edited by Seazas

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7 minutes ago, Sir Gerwald of Vallora said:

Yes please. It's a gorgeous weapon, relatively real world viable, and it fits the game's aesthetic better than the Flachion, in my opinion at least.

Valid. 

I love how much it correlates with the Beloved Zofia. Sword gifted from Rudolf's Empire as a sign of kinship and another being a treasured part of Lima's royal line. 

Unbelievable how Intsys never had any Alm use Royal Sword in Heroes. It deserves more appreciation!Scendscale.jpg.35eb1706ce4d16ca7ccda39a3e1369d0.jpg

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1 hour ago, Seazas said:

There's no excuse for Alm. At least Roy and co aren't apart of Awakening's continuity. Chrom and the rest of his squad literally goes to Valentia or rather "Valm". No Kingsfang in sight when Awakening also represented Tyrfing (not just Ragnell and Falchion) is just ridiculous. Even worse when Alm's blade resembles the Royal Sword and overall showcases Alm's legacy in Awakening's continuity. 

It's the only reason that makes sense. Specifically with the last time we see Duma is this and this is one of the final shots from the entire game:

  Hide contents

Untitled.thumb.png.5040f618e945380d42e7e91865bfe8ec.png

and not once is Alm and Celica shown to take Falchion back. Nor is anything referenced in Echoes media of Alm and Celica passing the Falchion on or taking it back at all.

It's just the most logical conclusion to make. The Alm and Grima showdown isn't canon either, it contradicts canon (where Valentia is being rebuilt and many of our party members immediately retire) nor does it involve Alm and Celica speaking a word. It just doesn't make sense nor does it mean Falchion had to be used during that fight. Grima isn't Duma. Grima didn't have a spell like Duma's during that fight. Anyone in the party could've defeated him. Grima felt like a fun secret boss in Echoes that elaborates on his lore.

 

"And as far as its legacy as a weapon goes it has just as much legacy as Marth's Falchion if not more, being an ancient weapon we actually see used in game by multiple characters against multiple opposing enemies."

That's the problem. Alm 's Falchion isn't Marth's. It isn't a weapon that received multiple uses like how Chrom and Lucina's Falchions are essentially Marth's. Alm's is just a second one that vanishes entirely. It doesn't show up in more than one mainline game, serves one singular purpose, doesn't have a unique name and identity of its own and just... vanishes with none of Alm's line using it. Tyrfing is associated with Sigurd since his son still uses it and keeps it around. It clearly lasted until Awakening too unlike Alm's Falchion. Ragnell has a unique name and identity of its own unlike the Kingsfang, primarily known as another Falchion. Ike also uses it again in Radiant Dawn and even leaves with it. It doesn't completely vanish like Alm's sword does since it's still used by Priam.

I actually find the Kingsfang fine, especially after reading the timeline where it's meant to go side by side with Ragnarok. The Royal Sword is just way more interesting and represents so much. I want the Royal Sword to at the very least be a common part of Alm's tool kit. 

I agree that Alm's Falchion not being in Awakening is a massive missed opportunity. But it's not like that's an indication of anything. Especially at time Awakening was made wherein was by far the least noteworthy game in the series by a country mile. Whalhart should have had Alm's Falchion, it would have been great. but the fact that he doesn't doesn't mean Falchion just doesn't exist for Alm. If they were trying to retcon it away then they wouldn't have included it in the remake in the same plot critical capacity it had. And as far as Alm's sword goes, all the lords got a "Character weapon" in their games. Most of them were based off of official artwork and boxart. That didn't actually become the Royal Sword until the Echoes remake used that design for the royal sword. Not like that makes it any more important than Celica's Wind or Micaiah's Pyre.

Seeing it in Duma's skull a the end in no way means it just stays there. Why would Alm just leave it there? What motive would he have for that? Duma does not even turn to stone like Mila and nothing in his dialogue indicates he plans to seal Falchion. So if we accept that Alm can simply take it out of Duma's head, you have to come up with some reason why he wouldn't.

Awakening establishes that only Chrom or Robin can defeat Grima, and with Chrom doing it Grima would be sealed for a thousand years (which is how much time passes until Grima returns in Awakening's backstory). There's really nothing to indicate Chapter 6 isn't canon, consequently, there's nothing to indicate that it is canon either, it's just possible.

Something appearing in two games is a weird criteria to pull. Siegmund and Seigland don't appear in two games. Roy's Sword of Seals doesn't appear in two games despite that series having two continuities. If there was a direct sequel starring Alm and he didn't have Falchion, then yeah that'd be something to write home about, but that's not the case. Falchion appears in one game because Alm appeared in one game. Besides if that's going to be some kind of disqualifier for a weapon being associated with something then it applies to the Royal Sword too (which Alm's blade is not, because if it were the Royal Sword they would have called it the Royal Sword).

I'm not disagreeing with you that the Royal Sword is a cool weapon that incarnations of Alm should keep around, but you're trying to achieve this view point by arguing that Alm's Falchion isn't something of importance, which is just incorrect. If IS were of the opinion that it was stupid that Alm wields the same sword as Marth, then they wouldn't have included it in the remake and they wouldn't have bothered going the extra mile to actually have it make canonical sense being the same sort of sword as Marth's. They also wouldn't have denied to Alm in Heroes when they had two separate opportunities to give it to him. And they wouldn't have made a bunch of cipher cards with him showing off Falchion. They keep choosing to represent Alm with Falchion. Because wether you like it or not, Falcion is still a weapon that is associated with Alm. Unlike most lords in the series he's lucky enough to have two weapons associated with him and thus far, his multiple appearances and artworks have stayed true to that. Even though they didn't give him the Royal Sword in Hereos, they still wanted it in the game and gave it to Celica (with express notes that she was borrowing if from Alm) and he has gotten cipher cards with the Royal Sword too. The Royal Sword is part of Alm's kit, it just so happens that the Falchion is too (along with some blue shield that doesn't actually look like any shield that's useable in game insofar as I can see). Just like Marth has both rapiers and Falchion associated with him. 

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On 8/12/2020 at 9:32 AM, Jotari said:

And judging by the prerelase poll I made, most others were in favor of that too. It was always weird he and Marth had the same sword, though by establishing that Duma and Mila actually are dragons and introducing Naga into the backstory of them winding up in Valentia, I actually think they did a rather decent job of implementing it into Archanea canon. Just a major shame now Walhart didn't wield it in Awakening. That would have done so much for his foil with Chrom by having them wield the same sword.

 

Also it would have made "Marth" way less suspicious. Especially if "Marth" went by "Alm" instead.

Lissa: Chrom, how can Alm have a second Falchion!?

Chrom: There already is a second Falchion, Lissa.

Edited by Alastor15243

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46 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Also it would have made "Marth" way less suspicious. Especially if "Marth" went by "Alm" instead.

Lissa: Chrom, how can Alm have a second Falchion!?

Chrome: There already is a second Falchion, Lissa.

Yeah, it really is a major shame. It's clear that while they wanted to make some cheap nostalgia by feature Valm in Awakening, they weren't all that concerned with the specifics of Gaiden itself, as also evidenced by the utter lack of care to keep any of the physical geography consistent.

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On 8/12/2020 at 3:32 PM, Jotari said:

I wouldn't say it's an additional weapon in Gaiden. I don't think it was there intention for you to kill Duma with Nosferatu with Falchion being some kind of secret alternative. Nosferatu is a glitch (it's keyed in unchangable 50% hit overrides Duma's seal attack status). You can't beat the game without Falchion.

i said "additional weapon" because as i mentioned before, in Gaiden it doesn't have that much impact story-wise. it feels like it's just a plot device that was put there to complete the game, nothing more. although i don't think there's anyone to blame for that, since in the NES era the space available on cartridges was very limited, therefore there's a chance that they just couldn't manage to expand the Falchion's backstory any further than what it already was.

at least they did expand its lore in Echoes, wich was already a huge step forward.

On 8/12/2020 at 3:32 PM, Jotari said:

And hardest wepaon in the game  to get? Ha. Luna, Sol and Astra laugh in the face of that (and to a lesser extent Gradivus too).

perhaps you missed the fact that i was speaking about Gaiden, not Echoes.

there's no such weapons in Gaiden, the only exception being Gradivus(actually named Gradius in Gaiden) wich is also obtained from Duma's temple.

 

...wich actually makes me wonder: would that Gradius eventually be the same Gradivus spear that Camus was wielding before?

if so, how the heck did it manage to end up down there in Duma's temple? or perhaps it was just another variation of a previous weapon?

but in Echoes it was indeed renamed Gradivus, and was still found inside Duma's temple...

time paradox? ...Mila's Turnwheel? .....Save state reload abuse?

 

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7 hours ago, Jotari said:

I agree that Alm's Falchion not being in Awakening is a massive missed opportunity. But it's not like that's an indication of anything. Especially at time Awakening was made wherein was by far the least noteworthy game in the series by a country mile. Whalhart should have had Alm's Falchion, it would have been great. but the fact that he doesn't doesn't mean Falchion just doesn't exist for Alm. If they were trying to retcon it away then they wouldn't have included it in the remake in the same plot critical capacity it had. And as far as Alm's sword goes, all the lords got a "Character weapon" in their games. Most of them were based off of official artwork and boxart. That didn't actually become the Royal Sword until the Echoes remake used that design for the royal sword. Not like that makes it any more important than Celica's Wind or Micaiah's Pyre.

Seeing it in Duma's skull a the end in no way means it just stays there. Why would Alm just leave it there? What motive would he have for that? Duma does not even turn to stone like Mila and nothing in his dialogue indicates he plans to seal Falchion. So if we accept that Alm can simply take it out of Duma's head, you have to come up with some reason why he wouldn't.

Awakening establishes that only Chrom or Robin can defeat Grima, and with Chrom doing it Grima would be sealed for a thousand years (which is how much time passes until Grima returns in Awakening's backstory). There's really nothing to indicate Chapter 6 isn't canon, consequently, there's nothing to indicate that it is canon either, it's just possible.

Something appearing in two games is a weird criteria to pull. Siegmund and Seigland don't appear in two games. Roy's Sword of Seals doesn't appear in two games despite that series having two continuities. If there was a direct sequel starring Alm and he didn't have Falchion, then yeah that'd be something to write home about, but that's not the case. Falchion appears in one game because Alm appeared in one game. Besides if that's going to be some kind of disqualifier for a weapon being associated with something then it applies to the Royal Sword too (which Alm's blade is not, because if it were the Royal Sword they would have called it the Royal Sword).

I'm not disagreeing with you that the Royal Sword is a cool weapon that incarnations of Alm should keep around, but you're trying to achieve this view point by arguing that Alm's Falchion isn't something of importance, which is just incorrect. If IS were of the opinion that it was stupid that Alm wields the same sword as Marth, then they wouldn't have included it in the remake and they wouldn't have bothered going the extra mile to actually have it make canonical sense being the same sort of sword as Marth's. They also wouldn't have denied to Alm in Heroes when they had two separate opportunities to give it to him. And they wouldn't have made a bunch of cipher cards with him showing off Falchion. They keep choosing to represent Alm with Falchion. Because wether you like it or not, Falcion is still a weapon that is associated with Alm. Unlike most lords in the series he's lucky enough to have two weapons associated with him and thus far, his multiple appearances and artworks have stayed true to that. Even though they didn't give him the Royal Sword in Hereos, they still wanted it in the game and gave it to Celica (with express notes that she was borrowing if from Alm) and he has gotten cipher cards with the Royal Sword too. The Royal Sword is part of Alm's kit, it just so happens that the Falchion is too (along with some blue shield that doesn't actually look like any shield that's useable in game insofar as I can see). Just like Marth has both rapiers and Falchion associated with him. 

It's a huge indication. Echoes even tied in Mila's Tree yet still left Alm's Falchion as a footnote outside of slaying Duma. It's the only reason it makes sense. It's not mentioned in the timeline post Duma slaying nor is Alm shown ever having it again. It doesn't originate in his family either, Kingsfang came from Naga and only ever exists to seal mad gods away. There's nothing to imply Alm would keep it nor is anything given that he passed it down. Hell, it could even bring painful memories and remind Alm of his failure to save his family. It's not stated in Echoes' timeline either that Alm keeps it. Even worse when in that same timeline, it's highlighted that Rigel I: a war hero returned Falchion to Duma Temple early in the timeline. Yet it doesn't ever entertain the idea of Alm keeping it. 

Then that's a worthless argument to pull since it's never mentioned as a canon. Nor does anything specifically state Alm uses Falchion in that fight. 

Again, those other weapons have an identity of their own. They don't have future games within the same continuity that suddenly has the weapon vanish like Alm's Falchion does. Alm's Blade still resembles the Royal Sword to the degree of Echoes taking directly from Awakening's redesign. That just feels like an excuse on your end to say "it doesn't count because it doesn't have the exact same naming!" Alm doesn't use any other sword that looks the Royal Sword. Alm's Blade IS the Royal Sword and you can't prove otherwise, there is no other sword used by Alm that shares a similar look. Naturally the other sword used by Alm alone would be associated with his legacy thus renamed "Alm's Blade". The entire continent was renamed to directly involve Alm's name after all. 

I never denied the Falchion's importance. It is important and crucial to slaying Duma. But Royal Sword is more interesting, gives Alm more of a set identity of his own and even outlasted the Kingsfang in the future timeline. Intsys had no choice but to keep it in the remake, they're not going to hijack the entire continuity. Duma in the original needed to be slain by Falchion and there was no alternative (outside of a non canon glitch). I don't care if the Kingsfang stays, but Royal Sword shouldn't constantly be shafted by it. Unlike a generic rapier used by Marth, Royal Sword actually has thematic importance and there's never a sword like it. Meanwhile many dancers have used a similar rapier and weapons like rapier never had a special origin nor fit themes. 

Edited by Seazas

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1 hour ago, 𝙵ᴇɴʀᴇɪʀ said:

i said "additional weapon" because as i mentioned before, in Gaiden it doesn't have that much impact story-wise. it feels like it's just a plot device that was put there to complete the game, nothing more. although i don't think there's anyone to blame for that, since in the NES era the space available on cartridges was very limited, therefore there's a chance that they just couldn't manage to expand the Falchion's backstory any further than what it already was.

at least they did expand its lore in Echoes, wich was already a huge step forward.

perhaps you missed the fact that i was speaking about Gaiden, not Echoes.

there's no such weapons in Gaiden, the only exception being Gradivus(actually named Gradius in Gaiden) wich is also obtained from Duma's temple.

 

...wich actually makes me wonder: would that Gradius eventually be the same Gradivus spear that Camus was wielding before?

if so, how the heck did it manage to end up down there in Duma's temple? or perhaps it was just another variation of a previous weapon?

but in Echoes it was indeed renamed Gradivus, and was still found inside Duma's temple...

time paradox? ...Mila's Turnwheel? .....Save state reload abuse?

 

Sol, Luna and Astra do exist in Gaiden. Except unlike Shadows of Valentia all three of them are lances. You have a 0.055% chance of getting them when you kill a Mogall. And as far as Gradivus goes, it does seem to be the same weapon as somewhere it's mentioned the white wings brought it back to Archanea. Probably in the Valentia Accord. How it got there, presumably it came with Camus.

1 hour ago, Seazas said:

It's a huge indication. Echoes even tied in Mila's Tree yet still left Alm's Falchion as a footnote outside of slaying Duma. It's the only reason it makes sense. It's not mentioned in the timeline post Duma slaying nor is Alm shown ever having it again. It doesn't originate in his family either, Kingsfang came from Naga and only ever exists to seal mad gods away. There's nothing to imply Alm would keep it nor is anything given that he passed it down. Hell, it could even bring painful memories and remind Alm of his failure to save his family. It's not stated in Echoes' timeline either that Alm keeps it. Even worse when in that same timeline, it's highlighted that Rigel I: a war hero returned Falchion to Duma Temple early in the timeline. Yet it doesn't ever entertain the idea of Alm keeping it. 

Then that's a worthless argument to pull since it's never mentioned as a canon. Nor does anything specifically state Alm uses Falchion in that fight. 

How would you expect Echoes to retoractively include the Falchion in Awakening? The Mila tree was not originally in Gaiden, that was something Echoes added to enhance continuity, much like redesigning Rudolf to more closely resemble Whalhart. The game gives literally 0% indication that Alm just left Falchion in Duma's skull. That is pure fanfiction on your part. It is in Alm's position in Chapter 6 and would be a necessary item for him to defeat Grima. You can dismiss Chapter 6 as noncanon, but it more evidence suggesting he keeps it then the literal zero indication you have.

1 hour ago, Seazas said:

Again, those other weapons have an identity of their own. They don't have future games within the same continuity that suddenly has the weapon vanish like Alm's Falchion does. Alm's Blade still resembles the Royal Sword to the degree of Echoes taking directly from Awakening's redesign. That just feels like an excuse on your end to say "it doesn't count because it doesn't have the exact same naming!" Alm doesn't use any other sword that looks the Royal Sword. Alm's Blade IS the Royal Sword and you can't prove otherwise, there is no other sword used by Alm that shares a similar look. Naturally the other sword used by Alm alone would be associated with his legacy thus renamed "Alm's Blade". The entire continent was renamed to directly involve Alm's name after all. 

 

It's not the same weapon though. Alm's Blade is a common weapon found in the dirt in Awakening that anyone can use while the Royal Sword is an actual associated weapon to Alm that only he can use. Plus they have different names. You're mistaken a reference  for an application of continuity. I can have everyone in Awakening use Alm's Blades, does that mean you subscribe to the belief that the Royal Sword was cloned? Why can't Nowi use doublelion if I give her Alm's Blade? 

1 hour ago, Seazas said:

I never denied the Falchion's importance. It is important and crucial to slaying Duma. But Royal Sword is more interesting, gives Alm more of a set identity of his own and even outlasted the Kingsfang in the future timeline. Intsys had no choice but to keep it in the remake, they're not going to hijack the entire continuity. Duma in the original needed to be slain by Falchion and there was no alternative (outside of a non canon glitch). I don't care if the Kingsfang stays, but Royal Sword shouldn't constantly be shafted by it. Unlike a generic rapier used by Marth, Royal Sword actually has thematic importance and there's never a sword like it. Meanwhile many dancers have used a similar rapier and weapons like rapier never had a special origin nor fit themes. 

I'm not saying you can't like the Royal Sword, so you have no reason to argue this point. Though noting that the Royal Blade is a unique weapon does devalue your point that it appeared in Awakening.

Edited by Jotari

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