Jump to content

Keeping Byleth at Lv 1 until Enlightened One promotion (AM Maddening)


ruruo
 Share

Recommended Posts

Following up from the "questions" thread,  in case anyone was curious:

I started the keep Byleth Lv1 until forced Enlightened One promotion. run a few days ago on Maddening NG, and just cleared Ch 5. Quite comfortable to proceed. It's probably not worth the hassle, but I'm curious over what it's going to be like on Part 2. I have done this for Byleth (and Dimitri, kept him to Lv 1 until Ch13) on Hard NG+ which is why I'm trying it on Maddening.  At best, it'll get decent results for the 2nd half and Ch13. At worst, so long as I catch up levels for Byleth it should be ok. Hopefully. 

Not keeping Dimitri to Lv 1 on Maddening because I don't want to deal with not using two good units early game, or deal with Lv4 Dimitri on Chapter 13. 

I am using DLC. Not using online. Not sure if I'm going to do any of DLC paralogues (I will try, but I'm not 100% confident I can pull through some them.) 

So far, it's manageable. Getting to Prof Level C was much faster than expected.  Also skill levels are building up faster too than expected for students, since maps are taking longer (which is really nice). Peg Knight certification requirements are  lower that I remember, so setting up the flier ch13 contingency plan is a-ok. 

 

 

----
Yup. Recruitment is looking to be an issue, I don't think there's a way to recruit faculty until CH11 where Byleth can start gaining levels. For normal students, it's possible to level up skill requirements, and get the C support quickly, but I might not be able to meet some stat requirements even after lowering from supports. I have thought maybe I could use stat boosters, but it might reduce the bonuses I will gain upon EO promotion.

Skill levels are also looking to be an issue on Byleth (might wait until I'm a bit further in to say for sure). I am taking advantage of the  DLC to pour the renown from CS clear into the statues, and use the sauna lol. Only just started putting more focus on raising skill levels via faculty on Byleth. We'll see how it goes. I'm hoping to get recruits in by Ch 8-9 if I am meeting stat requirements. 

The nice thing is that there's a use for Mission Assist.... At least I can borrow who I can't have x'D;;; 
It still builds support points, so hopefully it won't be too long before I can get some B supports, so they can volunteer themselves and I don't have to worry about stat requirements.

 

----
Most of my main units are around Lv 11 after Ch5. Been trying to take advantage of Byleth for professor's guidance. Not sure it's actually making a difference as the exp multiplier is harsh. This also makes me a little concerned about Byleth catching up on levels, we'll see. 

I might have set Dedue up as adjunct too early. Kinda worried about the Duscar paralogue (he's only Lv 7), but again.. we'll see. I did plan to set him up as Adjunct asap as I know I won't be fielding him on part two. But ngl, I kinda forgot about his paralogue :< 

After getting a feel for early Maddening. I'm thinking about putting Ingrid into dancer afterall, and Ashe into Sniper. Maybe get the WR/WL certification to keep a flying option open for him, but I think he might be better off with the  extra range + Bowfaire + Hunter's Volley, and carry a support battalion than WL. 

Another Dancer option I have in mind is Yuri, he also has access to Silence, but I don't be able to have a dancer on Ch13. 

Contemplating on dropping Ferdinand, as his B support locked to post-timeskip. I could keep Ferdinand as a Paladin, or take Seteth instead for the other swift strikes user, as he's immediately available as WR.

 

 

Edited by ruruo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, ruruo said:

Following up from the "questions" thread,  in case anyone was curious:

I started the "keep Byleth Lv1 until Ch1" run a few days ago on Maddening NG

 

 

Is that some kind of typo? Because keeping them at Level 1 until Chapter 1 is just one chapter of not using Byleth. The topic also says EO, so I'm a little confused as to what this challenge's limit is. Why not just endgame? Is there some point in which you have to have a levelled Byleth (maybe just after getting the Enlightened One cutscene where Byleth is separated from everyone else? Or actually as soon as Part 2 starts and you have just Byleth and one other character for half a map it'd be pretty tough).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Is that some kind of typo? Because keeping them at Level 1 until Chapter 1 is just one chapter of not using Byleth. The topic also says EO, so I'm a little confused as to what this challenge's limit is. Why not just endgame? Is there some point in which you have to have a levelled Byleth (maybe just after getting the Enlightened One cutscene where Byleth is separated from everyone else? Or actually as soon as Part 2 starts and you have just Byleth and one other character for half a map it'd be pretty tough).

From the previous topic, the idea was to not level Byleth until the forced unlock of Enlightened One, to have more levels with better growths.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Skarthe said:

From the previous topic, the idea was to not level Byleth until the forced unlock of Enlightened One, to have more levels with better growths.

Ah, EO is Enlightened One. So this is more a min max thing then a make the game more difficult thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Ah, EO is Enlightened One. So this is more a min max thing then a make the game more difficult thing.

Yes! Sorry, fixed it up ^^

Yup, it's more for the min/max to see if it'll give a decent pay off. I'm probably having a more difficult first half experience, but hopefully the 2nd part will balance out as much easier. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yay thanks, I'm glad someone is also curious about this too :'D 

I'm saving two early recommended Lv 10. Quests in the hopes that Byleth's bases + Rally + Flayn will get her going after feeding some kills. 

So far, just finished up Ch7, on 2nd week of Ch 8 month. Recruitment has not been as horrific as expected. Gift + meals spamming worked out. I have everyone I want (Lythisia, Lorenz and Ferdinand). Lythisia joined late Ch6, and I'm pretty relieved to nab Ferdinand late ch 7. Turns out with C+ support, only 9 dex is needed, and Byleth has exactly 9 base dex x'D. Lorenz joined first week Ch 8 via B support. 

Main quests has been going good so far. It's been a lot of fun relying on gambits, skills and rallies more often. Paralogues seem to have high recommended levels. I have only completed the Red Tales of the Red Canyon asap out of stubborness for that Knowledge Gem (that was an experience haha...). The rest, I might wait a little later. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm curious about this because back in the questions thread, I was one of the ones that shot this down as a shitty idea (and I still do, tbf, because not using someone who's likely to be one of the best characters you have early on is going to make the earlygame that much harder [considering that the earlygame tends to be the hardest portion of the game, that's pretty bad], and I'm not convinced it'll make the second half much, if any, easier as to make up for this).

Edited by Shadow Mir
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the basic idea is to prevent Byleth from getting any levels until she unlocks Enlightened One for the extra growths/higher base stats? I assume such an underleveled Byleth would also be able to basically get a level up every kill, so she'd probably catch up pretty quickly, even.

Blue Lions also seems like a good choice to try this on, seeing as how the students are probably good enough to carry the early game (seeing as how you're doing well so far), but the lategame really ramps up the BS. 

Regardless, you've piqued my interest. Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'm curious about this because back in the questions thread, I was one of the ones that shot this down as a shitty idea (and I still do, tbf, because not using someone who's likely to be one of the best characters you have early on is going to make the earlygame that much harder [considering that the earlygame tends to be the hardest portion of the game, that's pretty bad], and I'm not convinced it'll make the second half much, if any, easier as to make up for this).

you'd be right thinking this to be a stupid idea for anything serious

this though is something mostly done for fun and for a challange. and there's nothing wrong with that

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh glad to see you've picked this up. Since you mentioned the idea in the other thread I've been wondering about this. Sort of planning to try it myself too, but I have too many other PT's I want to try first, so I'll be following this thread for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Just cleared Ch13. Ahh.. Yup.. not worth it haha. My Byleth was under-baked at Lv 23 lol, but I think the extra base stats made up for it..

Getting those gains on Ch 11

The first 20 levels were easy to catch up to. Early on you get a level per kill,  but it starts to plummet around Lv 20. I think if I were to redo it, I would get the Exp Gem before doing Ocean View to feed more levels in Byleth. I did the opposite, as I thought I could catch up fast enough in Ch12, which wasn't the case. On Hard HG+ you can definitely catch up quicker and the pay-off was better.

For Comparison: 
Hard NG+ Byleth at Ch13 I Maddening Byleth at Ch 13 I (Maddening Byleth as EO at Lv 27 for reference

The NG+ Byleth was also a Ch 11, Lv 1 Byleth. I think she was was speed blessed or Maddening Byleth was speed screwed x'D.
How do they compare to a normal Byleth?

On Recruitment: 

  • Far more painless than expected for students. Esp. if you're only after 3-4. I managed to recruited Lythesia, Ferdinand, Lorenz and Dorothea* before Ch11, getting it to B support isn't too much of a stretch. And even with C+ it's not too bad. It's recruiting Faculty that's more annoying as they have a level requirement. 

    * For Dorothea, there was a point where I couldn't decide who I wanted as a dancer. So I last min recruited Dorothea for a dancer by dumping gifts on her like 2 weeks before the White Heron Cup, and it worked lol. I ended up not continuing with that file in the end, because I found it difficult distributing battalions between 4 fliers (Sylvian, Ashe, Ingrid and Ferdie). There's not many with decent bonuses or Gambits 😕

  •  For Faculty, you can't recruit until Ch 11 which brings the issue of their Paralogues. 
    For Ch 11, there's technically three free weekends. But you will have two weekends if you want to do faculty paralogues. I lost a weekend to Oil and Water as I thought it would be nice to get the exp gem

    On Maddening I missed Sword and Shield of Serios, Secret Trader (DLC) and Black Market Scheme (DLC) for part one. 
    On Hard NG+ run I never got the Exp. Gem as I missed Oil and Water. 

Thoughts on chapters: 

  • The hardest part, for me was 100% early game... Ch 1 - 7 were rough. Chapter 5 was super tedious, I don't think I've ever spent that many turns on a single FE map before.
    Dedue is awesome. One of the things I found super fun was making more use out of Dedue and Annette. Annette is lowkey MVP, loved using her rallies.  
     
  •  Sothis' Paralouge: Memories of the Red Canyon. I a really hard time on this, granted I did stubbornly do it asap on the month it was available. It was nice having the gem early, but it didn't feel essential, so I think it ok  to wait a little later for it if needed. 

    Yuri + Constance's Paralogue: Cursed Relic. I did this map late, with three fliers + Pally Dimi, which I'm sure made a difference.  
    Even then, I had 2 resets on this map trying to find the balance. It's pretty comfortable when none of the crazy gets triggered. But if everything gets triggered, it's hell. 

     
  • Ch 13: 

    I wanted to test waters going through this chapter with both Dimitri and Byleth footlocked, to get a feel for it. I had expected to go back and re-jig things from start of Ch 10. Surprisingly, Swordbreaker on Dimitri, some bushes, and Valkyrie Annette with Caedeus staff cracked it for me. Annette with the magic range and canto made the biggest difference. It would have been a lot harder to work out do if she wasn't picking off weakened enemies. 

    On turn 1 I equipped the Fetters (On Byleth), and the March Ring (on Dimitri) from the convoy. If I were to redo this, I would give them those items on Ch 12. I think it's possible to get away with it using Reposition, and it if one of them used Shoes of the Wind, and the other with March Ring. The craziest part of this map for me was the first 4-5 turns T_T.

    The enemy aggression levels seem to be similar on Maddening and Hard. The main difference I felt was, there's a lot more Pass on swordies, and the enemies were much stronger. I found it be ok to take it slow. Overall it took 26 turns.

    Bushes
    Annette and Mercedes's Three Squares

     

Lastly, for anyone curious, my team at of the start of Ch 14

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congrats on making it through chapter 13! It's crazy to think that Byleth nearly caught up with everyone else, level-wise, by then. And while the promotion bonuses themselves are attractive, I think this kind of underscores that class bases in Three Houses just aren't super-high. If you're getting a boost, it's either in an area that doesn't matter (whoopee, more Magic on Wyvern Lord Petra) or an area you're already deficient in (i.e. Dedue getting speed upon going Grappler).

56 minutes ago, ruruo said:

The hardest part, for me was 100% early game... Ch 1 - 7 were rough. Chapter 5 was super tedious, I don't think I've ever spent that many turns on a single FE map before.
Dedue is awesome. One of the things I found super fun was making more use out of Dedue and Annette. Annette is lowkey MVP, loved using her rallies.  

The cult of Annette is honored to welcome another loyal follower. Hope you're ready for lots of singalongs!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, ruruo said:

Just cleared Ch13. Ahh.. Yup.. not worth it haha. My Byleth was under-baked at Lv 23 lol, but I think the extra base stats made up for it..

Getting those gains on Ch 11

The first 20 levels were easy to catch up to. Early on you get a level per kill,  but it starts to plummet around Lv 20. I think if I were to redo it, I would get the Exp Gem before doing Ocean View to feed more levels in Byleth. I did the opposite, as I thought I could catch up fast enough in Ch12, which wasn't the case. On Hard HG+ you can definitely catch up quicker and the pay-off was better.

For Comparison: 
Hard NG+ Byleth at Ch13 I Maddening Byleth at Ch 13 I (Maddening Byleth as EO at Lv 27 for reference

The NG+ Byleth was also a Ch 11, Lv 1 Byleth. I think she was was speed blessed or Maddening Byleth was speed screwed x'D.
How do they compare to a normal Byleth?

On Recruitment: 

  • Far more painless than expected for students. Esp. if you're only after 3-4. I managed to recruited Lythesia, Ferdinand, Lorenz and Dorothea* before Ch11, getting it to B support isn't too much of a stretch. And even with C+ it's not too bad. It's recruiting Faculty that's more annoying as they have a level requirement. 

    * For Dorothea, there was a point where I couldn't decide who I wanted as a dancer. So I last min recruited Dorothea for a dancer by dumping gifts on her like 2 weeks before the White Heron Cup, and it worked lol. I ended up not continuing with that file in the end, because I found it difficult distributing battalions between 4 fliers (Sylvian, Ashe, Ingrid and Ferdie). There's not many with decent bonuses or Gambits 😕

  •  For Faculty, you can't recruit until Ch 11 which brings the issue of their Paralogues. 
    For Ch 11, there's technically three free weekends. But you will have two weekends if you want to do faculty paralogues. I lost a weekend to Oil and Water as I thought it would be nice to get the exp gem

    On Maddening I missed Sword and Shield of Serios, Secret Trader (DLC) and Black Market Scheme (DLC) for part one. 
    On Hard NG+ run I never got the Exp. Gem as I missed Oil and Water. 

Thoughts on chapters: 

  • The hardest part, for me was 100% early game... Ch 1 - 7 were rough. Chapter 5 was super tedious, I don't think I've ever spent that many turns on a single FE map before.
    Dedue is awesome. One of the things I found super fun was making more use out of Dedue and Annette. Annette is lowkey MVP, loved using her rallies.  
     
  •  Sothis' Paralouge: Memories of the Red Canyon. I a really hard time on this, granted I did stubbornly do it asap on the month it was available. It was nice having the gem early, but it didn't feel essential, so I think it ok  to wait a little later for it if needed. 

    Yuri + Constance's Paralogue: Cursed Relic. I did this map late, with three fliers + Pally Dimi, which I'm sure made a difference.  
    Even then, I had 2 resets on this map trying to find the balance. It's pretty comfortable when none of the crazy gets triggered. But if everything gets triggered, it's hell. 

     
  • Ch 13: 

    I wanted to test waters going through this chapter with both Dimitri and Byleth footlocked, to get a feel for it. I had expected to go back and re-jig things from start of Ch 10. Surprisingly, Swordbreaker on Dimitri, some bushes, and Valkyrie Annette with Caedeus staff cracked it for me. Annette with the magic range and canto made the biggest difference. It would have been a lot harder to work out do if she wasn't picking off weakened enemies. 

    On turn 1 I equipped the Fetters (On Byleth), and the March Ring (on Dimitri) from the convoy. If I were to redo this, I would give them those items on Ch 12. I think it's possible to get away with it using Reposition, and it if one of them used Shoes of the Wind, and the other with March Ring. The craziest part of this map for me was the first 4-5 turns T_T.

    The enemy aggression levels seem to be similar on Maddening and Hard. The main difference I felt was, there's a lot more Pass on swordies, and the enemies were much stronger. I found it be ok to take it slow. Overall it took 26 turns.

    Bushes
    Annette and Mercedes's Three Squares

     

Lastly, for anyone curious, my team at of the start of Ch 14

Wait? It's possible to get the Sword of Seiros?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jotari said:

Wait? It's possible to get the Sword of Seiros?

"Sword and Shield of Seiros" is the name of the Alois/Shamir paralogue. Neither the Sword of Seiros, nor the Shield of Seiros, are involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

"Sword and Shield of Seiros" is the name of the Alois/Shamir paralogue. Neither the Sword of Seiros, nor the Shield of Seiros, are involved.

Ah. That's what I get for not paying attention to names.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm assuming when you did this you mostly kept Byleth in the EO class as you were leveling up from 1-20-something?  If so, I think there are a couple explanations for why this seemed underwhelming.

First, I believe EO is a trap class for Byleth, certainly on Maddening.  It doesn't offer spectacular growth rate bonuses, and the bonuses it does offer aren't really in the stats Byleth needs help with.  An extra 10% to strength is all right, but 10% magic is a bit of a waste considering Byleth's subpar magic and spell list.  20% HP is fine, but not particularly necessary.  And that's really it.  The base stat bonuses for EO are also...fine?  You get a small bonus to every stat, but not much help in any single stat.  And unfortunately, Maddening really does seem to be pushing units towards specialized builds.  What Byleth needs more than anything else is speed, particularly on Maddening, given their inherent speed growth is only 45%, and EO doesn't do much to help with that.

That other big thing that I noticed is that you are missing out on a ton of really useful abilities by doing what you did.  Looking at your normal playthrough examples, I can see you have Death Blow, Darting Blow, and Axebreaker.  On you Lvl. 1 EO playthrough, you're using things like Weight -3 and Authority Prowess, which are big steps down.  Those abilities that you're missing out on will effectively add a bunch to some of your most critical stats.  I wonder what this type of strategy would be like if you instead treated certification in the EO class simply as a tool to get stat boosts (due to the class minimums), then after that point tried to do something approaching a normal class progression (at least picking up key abilities like Death Blow and Darting Blow).  Or maybe it makes more sense to stay in EO for a while while Byleth is rapidly leveling up (due to the higher growth rates than Intermediate level classes), and then trying to pick up those skills later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Congrats on making it through chapter 13! It's crazy to think that Byleth nearly caught up with everyone else, level-wise, by then. And while the promotion bonuses themselves are attractive, I think this kind of underscores that class bases in Three Houses just aren't super-high. If you're getting a boost, it's either in an area that doesn't matter (whoopee, more Magic on Wyvern Lord Petra) or an area you're already deficient in (i.e. Dedue getting speed upon going Grappler).

The cult of Annette is honored to welcome another loyal follower. Hope you're ready for lots of singalongs!

Thanks! This has been so much more fun than expected. Yeah, while boosts are always nice, getting them is so disproportionate on NG Maddening. 

Always ready for singalongs! Annette's so good though, I feel like she shines so much on Maddening, going into Part 2, I don't feel like she's dropping off at all. She's like a swiss army knife.

 

4 hours ago, SumG said:

I'm assuming when you did this you mostly kept Byleth in the EO class as you were leveling up from 1-20-something?  If so, I think there are a couple explanations for why this seemed underwhelming.

First, I believe EO is a trap class for Byleth, certainly on Maddening.  It doesn't offer spectacular growth rate bonuses, and the bonuses it does offer aren't really in the stats Byleth needs help with.  An extra 10% to strength is all right, but 10% magic is a bit of a waste considering Byleth's subpar magic and spell list.  20% HP is fine, but not particularly necessary.  And that's really it.  The base stat bonuses for EO are also...fine?  You get a small bonus to every stat, but not much help in any single stat.  And unfortunately, Maddening really does seem to be pushing units towards specialized builds.  What Byleth needs more than anything else is speed, particularly on Maddening, given their inherent speed growth is only 45%, and EO doesn't do much to help with that.

That other big thing that I noticed is that you are missing out on a ton of really useful abilities by doing what you did.  Looking at your normal playthrough examples, I can see you have Death Blow, Darting Blow, and Axebreaker.  On you Lvl. 1 EO playthrough, you're using things like Weight -3 and Authority Prowess, which are big steps down.  Those abilities that you're missing out on will effectively add a bunch to some of your most critical stats.  I wonder what this type of strategy would be like if you instead treated certification in the EO class simply as a tool to get stat boosts (due to the class minimums), then after that point tried to do something approaching a normal class progression (at least picking up key abilities like Death Blow and Darting Blow).  Or maybe it makes more sense to stay in EO for a while while Byleth is rapidly leveling up (due to the higher growth rates than Intermediate level classes), and then trying to pick up those skills later.

 

Both of them are Lv.1 EO Byleth. The difference is one is from a older Hard NG+ playthrough (where I really didn't bother building that much, left her in that class, she's the one with Weight -3 and Authority prowess), who inspired the Maddening Byleth (where I did bother to pick up important skills like Darting + Death Blow). The Maddening one has awful random C - D - ish weapon skill levels, and is at Lv 23. Sorry if that was confusing, it's more of a NG+ Hard comparison with the screenshots, I wish I had a normal Byleth at around LV 27 to compare differences. 

Ah cool, I did progression exactly as mentioned x'D. So I used the EO class to level up to 21 to bypass beginner/intermediate classes, and picked up Death + Darting Blow via grinding auxiliaries, before reclassing to Assassin for Dex + Spd. The idea was to secure str + mag stats, then catch up on dex + speed via Assassin. I was hoping to push for enough mag to use magic weapons effectively.. but I don't think it'll happen.

With EO, I agree with where you're coming from, I didn't see it working out as well on Maddening either compared to on Hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...