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Fire Emblem Heroes - New Heroes (A New Future)


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14 minutes ago, Othin said:

Looks like PM1 is doing his usual poll, which Dimitri is currently leading: https://old.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/ia9xy4/who_are_you_going_to_pick_as_your_cyl_4_free/

I personally picked Claude in YT and Edelgard in Twitter. Claude is extremely self sustainable and will be crazy with all the high stats stats, healing and with a seal perhaps mobility. Edelgard has amazing movement, a great player phase and even if her enemy phase isn't that offensive she will receive very few damage. 

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28 minutes ago, Othin said:

Looks like PM1 is doing his usual poll, which Dimitri is currently leading: https://old.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/ia9xy4/who_are_you_going_to_pick_as_your_cyl_4_free/

...Wow. I'm really shocked that Dimitri is leading, especially by that much. I still figured Claude would be leading, though by a little bit. Being a flier with a bow makes him have crazy mobility AND he can heal himself by a lot if you stack his weapon effect with healing specials.

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A significant amount of the votes would be probably based on the sentiment of "I am going to pick Dimitri anyway for other reasons, but would like it if PM1 incorporated him into his solutions".

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I am wondering and going to wait to see what さるGames, sukwindallinrush, yorotsruuu yorotsruuu, and other F2P guide makers decide on. One of the things I like which I don't know if Pheonixmaster1 has done much is that for defeat X GHB with Y or Z unit quests from the GHB revivals, さるGames is able to get a solution where the same team is used and at a certain point, it's just choose Y or Z and then repeat the map again, but with the one that you didn't have defeat the GHB unit.

2 hours ago, vikingsfan92 said:

I have a feeling for f2p guides specifically dimtri is the worst pick. The reason why is simply Blue lion rule depends on having more defense and the units he has to face with the guide content are with inflated stats so not convinced it will be up that often going forward with harder and harder stages. And given that this is supposed to be a f2p guide its not like he can minimize this by +10 him.

Inflated stats are what they are, but with Atk/Def Unity, whatever seal for the map, and buffs, CYL Dimitri should still be able to make use of Blue Lion Rule. It's not like all the enemy units are like that one lance fighter in Tactics Drills with 99 in every stat. I was going to say something else regarding the CYL4 picks, but Humanoid more or less what I wanted to say.

2 hours ago, Humanoid said:

Yeah, over the past year I think I can probably count the number of his solutions that use the "official" pick of Brave Micaiah on one hand.

This is the same thing with さるGames as well where I only remember one instance of CYL Micaiah being used and that was for a Chain Challenges. I think she was in a couple of other maps by さるGames, but I can't remember which and not the extent of CYL Lyn or CYL Veronica, especially CYL Lyn who was the best thing since sliced bread for everyone at the time.

My hot take is that none of the CYL4 units offer anything as substantial as CYL1 did with CYL Lyn and CYL2 did with CYL Veronica, so whoever is agreed upon as the F2P pick doesn't really mean as much. They will be used, but maybe not as much because of alternative more permanent choices are offered or they might even get replaced by a future free unit. Incidentally, CYL1 and CYL2 introduced units that were a first of their kind; CYL1 introduced the first summonable bow cavalry and CYL2 introduced the first staff cavalry with a prf staff. CYL3 then offered a flying mage with effective damage against armor and cavalry who has Ground Orders and also can turn debuffs in her favor and has Sabotage Atk/Spd as her personal skill, a flying healer who is geared for offense even though she does have a Gravity effect which is useful for choke-point strategies, a lance cavalry with effective damage against beasts and dragons where we have yet to have generic beast enemies and his resistance sucks, and Alm.

The agreed upon pick being CYL Micaiah is okay. A flying mage with effective damage against two movement types and can provide debuff and movement support is good. It's just not as crazy as the first bow cavalry who has good base offenses, can negate Distant Counter against axe, lance, and sword units, and while it was only against mages before being able to refine Mulagir, negating field buffs on mages is useful, especially when an enemy -blade tome mage is present on the map. Or a healer who has built-in Dazzling Staff and Wrathful Staff as her default B passive making her a free Firesweep unit and one who can easily support her allies by initiating and granting Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 through her Hlidskjalf.

Of the four, CYL Claude is who I would have considered to be the F2P pick given he would be the only F2P bow flier with a prf bow as spring Loki doesn't have a prf and because of his sustain. His movement alone gives him an advantage over the remaining three. While I think he's the best choice, I still think he does not offer as much as CYL Lyn and CYL Veronica did. Between him and CYL Micaiah it's a toss up between his better offenses and sustain versus her effective damage against armor and cavalry and more varied support through Yune's Whispers being Sabotage Atk/Spd and Ground Orders offering movement support for non-flier allies.

Following him would be CYL Dimitri where he has a DC lance with a Breath effect and yes, while he will be going against inflated stats in abyssal and future infernal maps, he should be able to get enough defense for damage reduction against the foes he needs it against and he should be fine against units who target his defense. He's the second Distant Counter lance infantry after Fjorm who does not have another effect on her Leiptr and whose damage reduction is a special that only works against ranged units. That said, Fjorm is a tried and true unit and her lead in resistance is a great advantage even considering CYL Dimitri's more flexible damage reduction being able to cover for his likely to be lower resistance than hers. To that I think CYL Dimitri would be a slight upgrade or even a side-grade that leans towards physical defense compared to Fjorm despite him having a DC lance with a Breath effect, more flexible damage reduction, ability to guarantee follow-up attacks, being able to reverse Atk/Def penalties, and likely higher stats everywhere except resistance compared to her.

After him would be CYL Edelgard given her uniqueness by being able to circumvent armor movement by having >= 25% HP, but she is still an armor at the end of the day and her HP needs to be managed so she can have +1 movement, warp to nearby enemies, guarantee a follow-up attack, and reduce the damage of a foe's follow up attack by 80%.

And then there's CYL Lysithea, a powerful nuke with effective damage against cavalry units. Nukes are good, but that's all she offers and F2P strategies do carefully decide on who to defeat and when and enemy phase, surviving, and sustain are just as important as player phase. Eir is a different kind of unit, but Eir offers player phase performance and support with Sparkling Boost.

They're all good units, but it's not like we got our second ranged Galeforce unit, had CYL Edelgard not been an armor and kept Raging Storm where even if she didn't come with Galeforce by default or couldn't inherit it as a ranged unit, an extra turn means a lot, or another unit with a unique movement assist like legendary Chrom and legendary Lucina. Or even one of them being a colorless mage which would make them the first colorless mage all players can guarantee to have.

Part of the reason I feel for all of this -- with recent CYL picks being underwhelming -- is that as the game progresses, as time moves on, we are getting stronger and stronger units and free ones at that. At this point in time, a new player has access to Fjorm, vanguard Ike, Eir, and Peony through story progression with potentially the next book hero in the near future, a 5* Reinhardt as their first Heroes' Path reward followed by Ninian, 5* Xander, mage knight Eirika, and CYL Ike. I might have missed someone else, but new players who start before the end of the month can choose CYL Veronica before the CYL2 free pick banner expires, CYL Micaiah, and whichever CYL4 unit as free units as well. And while it will take time for them to get enough grails, feathers, etc., they can get through the grail shop: Adrift Azura, bride Louise, Itsuki, Mininerva, and soiree Rinea along with Brunnya, Rolf, and either Ethlyn or Valentine's Silque since I don't remember if they were used as much as the others mentioned first. And there's also the free units from the GHB and Hero Battle Rotations where sure, some of them aren't as great as recent units, but they are used in things like Squad Assault. That's just new players and before spending any orbs since new players have access to the current Hero Fest banner until its duration runs out however many days after they start playing, so they could re-roll for Sothis to have a third mythic and their first defense mythic or Bernadetta, Ephraim & Lyon, or Nagi if they would rather have them. Old players were able to pick CYL Lyn and were able to get the 5* TT units and Altina was very limited, but still free.

2 hours ago, XRay said:

Pheonixmaster1 can still get everyone on the Focus with neutral Traits by spending some money, so if he really cannot figure it out with ANF!Dimitri, he can use another unit.

If I recall correctly, Pheonixmaster1 has two accounts: his personal one and a F2P one. The F2P one had over 1000 orbs the one time I watched him summon from the Heroes, Light and Shadow and the Summer Refreshes banner as he wanted to get Broadleaf Fan for his Sothe on the F2P account. If he still has at least around 500 orbs, then he can get all four of the CYL4 units, but I doubt it.

Edited by Kaden
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1 hour ago, Humanoid said:

Yeah, over the past year I think I can probably count the number of his solutions that use the "official" pick of Brave Micaiah on one hand.

that's the thing. I picked Micaiah (basically because it's Micaiah. but also that he picked her) - but he used her like 5 times the entire year. 

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All this talk about F2P guides and PhoenixMaster1... I don't have any place here whatsoever. I already know I'm gunning for Edelgard, Dimitri at the first Sparking, and praying I get anything good with all the summons.

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2 hours ago, XRay said:

Pheonixmaster1 can still get everyone on the Focus with neutral Traits by spending some money, so if he really cannot figure it out with ANF!Dimitri, he can use another unit.

You always seem to talk about summoning as requiring money, it really doesn't. Getting all four at neutral requires three sparks plus the free pick, which is a total of 455 orbs. That's about a month and a half's worth of free orbs, which is certainly a decent amount, but very much achievable with any amount of saving. I have about that many on hand right now, and there will be like 200 more available before the banner ends. And there have been times when I've saved up way more.

40 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

A significant amount of the votes would be probably based on the sentiment of "I am going to pick Dimitri anyway for other reasons, but would like it if PM1 incorporated him into his solutions".

PM1 specifically said he's just surveying who people personally plan to summon, even if they don't use his guides at all. So even "I am going to pick Dimitri for other reasons and I don't care if PM1 uses him" is still a valid reason for the vote. It's not asking "who would be most effective in the guides".

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15 minutes ago, Kaden said:

nflated stats are what they are, but with Atk/Def Unity, whatever seal for the map, and buffs, CYL Dimitri should still be able to make use of Blue Lion Rule. It's not like all the enemy units are like that one lance fighter in Tactics Drills with 99 in every stat. I was going to say something else regarding the CYL4 picks, but Humanoid more or less what I wanted to say.

Well its not like the unity skill is the most consistent either. To get its best usage it requires enemy debuffers to exist and target him specifically with the debuff which again is not conistent in the slightest and is map dependent. Sure the plus to stats is nice but it requires specific enemies to work the best and positioning from his own allies which is do able but can limit how the team is postioned if you want to utilize it. Not impossible to get to work but certainly more conditional and map layout dependent than the others.

Edited by vikingsfan92
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I think at this point in time choosing a unit for F2P guides isn't a very viable thing. These units last for 2 years from their release and then go poof, so guide makers tend to avoid using them after the hype subsides because it is better to have future-proof guides using GHB/TT units rather than something that'll only last for x amount of time (although the only type of content that cycles enough to make this relevant is LHB/MHB maps because GHBs only come twice and that's it).

PM1 may use the CYL4 units two or three times in his guides but it's certain he'll go back to Mininerva/Itsuki/Eir/Peony/new grail unit that has outstanding performance at 0 investment before long and those that chose a unit exclusively for F2P guides will have their pick eating dust in the barracks.

It doesn't affect me personally because I'm at the point where I can clear those maps using whatever units I like (which reminds me, I never uploaded the Hel Abyssal clear with Officer Hilda...oops) but those that rely on guides shouldn't feel pressured to go for what a poll says when they'll only get benefits for a couple of months at max, instead they should choose on whether they like the character or find their gameplay interesting. 

Edited by Alexmender
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I largely agree that limiting it to one is really not a going to be more than a little off putting for people as there are going to be picking the other three regardless. I do understand from his perspective though that it makes more sense to focus on one over the other though to cover for people who only get the free unit. He does after all want to make content that is the most useful to more players. Also it is fan engagment to some degree which is good for content creators.

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18 minutes ago, Othin said:

You always seem to talk about summoning as requiring money, it really doesn't. Getting all four at neutral requires three sparks plus the free pick, which is a total of 455 orbs. That's about a month and a half's worth of free orbs, which is certainly a decent amount, but very much achievable with any amount of saving. I have about that many on hand right now, and there will be like 200 more available before the banner ends. And there have been times when I've saved up way more.

Not everyone saves Orbs and not everyone wants to spend free Orbs on CYL units.

15 minutes ago, vikingsfan92 said:

Well its not like the unity skill is the most consistent either. To get its best usage it requires enemy debuffers to exist and target him specifically with the debuff which again is not conistent in the slightest and is map dependent. Sure the plus to stats is nice but it requires specific enemies to work the best and positioning. Not impossible to get to work but certainly more conditional and map layout dependent than the others.

Using Unity is not about consistency of getting stat buffs. Unity is about the consistency of maintaining a tank's stats. A unit with Unity will have always have a net gain of Stat/Stat+5 or more, but a unit with Stance can get a net loss of Stat/Stat-1 (6 in combat buff - 7 debuff) or worse at Stat/Stat-8 (6 in combat buff - 7 debuff - 7 Panic debuff). Unity also makes running bonus buffs viable for super tanks, whereas bonus buffs were not viable before.

For a super tank, being able to maintain your stats is just as important as having high stats.

Edited by XRay
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1 minute ago, XRay said:
Not everyone saves Orbs and not everyone wants to spend free Orbs on CYL units.

Not everyone spends money, either.

My objection isn't to presenting spending money as an option for how to get orbs needed to summon, but to presenting that as the default way to get orbs. Especially when we're talking about someone who always seems to have a bunch of orbs because he makes videos where the whole premise is not needing to use them.

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1 hour ago, Humanoid said:

A significant amount of the votes would be probably based on the sentiment of "I am going to pick Dimitri anyway for other reasons, but would like it if PM1 incorporated him into his solutions".

Yeah, that could be the case.

But I can't complain much about Dimitri leading, and Claude being in second place in that poll when I looked at it as well. The guys are beating the girls! I like them way more than Edelgard and Lysithea. Though I do like Lysithea's outfit in this version.

Also, since Claude couldn't get a Golden Deer Rule skill to go with Dimitri's and Edelgard's Blue Lion Rule and Black Eagle Rule respectively due to being second place, then legendary Claude totally needs Golden Deer Rule. It just feels weird not having this as a complete set.

Edited by Anacybele
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1 minute ago, XRay said:
 

Not everyone saves Orbs and not everyone wants to spend free Orbs on CYL units.

Using Unity is not about consistency of getting stat buffs. Unity is about the consistency of maintaining a tank's stats. A unit with Unity will have always have a net gain of Stat/Stat+5 or more, but a unit with Stance can get a net loss of Stat/Stat-8 (6 in combat buff - 7 debuff - 7 Panic debuff). Unity also makes running bonus buffs viable for super tanks, whereas bonus buffs were not viable before.

For a super tank, being able to maintain your stats is just as important as having high stats.

My point about consitency is that  there are times where it does less than other a slots will and for f2p guides not allowing a ton of merges if any that hurts. And against infernal/Abyssal enemies sometimes you need more raw stats and you aren't getting that if the enemy army is pure stat balls with no other effects. So he can be left in weird situations where neither his unique a skill or his unique b skill do anything other than the bond part of unity against enemy tanks with no other effects which probably is going to run into problems in the setting of infernal/abyssal maps.

Do the other units have problems yes they do but tbh Dimtri makes his own problems more than the others imo.

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15 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Also, since Claude couldn't get a Golden Deer Rule skill to go with Dimitri's and Edelgard's Blue Lion Rule and Black Eagle Rule respectively due to being second place, then legendary Claude totally needs Golden Deer Rule. It just feels weird not having this as a complete set.

i don't mean to rain on your parade, but that's most likely not going to happen

House Rule skills seem to be a special case for this year's CYL, since it's 100% 3H units

Claude simply lost his chance, but if L!Edelgard is anything to go by, L!Claude will most likely have Fallen Star as his personal B skill (although dragon effectiveness will probably be one of Failnaught's effects)

Edited by Yexin
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3 minutes ago, Yexin said:

i don't mean to rain on your parade, but that's most likely not going to happen

House Rule skills seem to be a special case for this year's CYL, since it's 100% 3H units

Claude simply lost his chance, but if L!Edelgard is anything to go by, L!Claude will most likely have Fallen Star as his personal B skill (although dragon effectiveness will probably be one of Failnaught's effects)

His legendary version probably won't have Golden Deer Rule, but he could get it as a seasonal or something. We've gotten seasonals with personal non-weapon skills before. Usually they're shared with other versions of the unit, such as Duo Marth, Duo Alm, and Duo Micaiah, and none of those three were passives, but we've gotten Anniversary Caeda as a seasonal unit that does have an exclusive passive. It'd fit especially well if they have Edelgard and Dimitri keep their Rule skills on their inevitable seasonal versions, since that way those three would all match up. (Although it would mean having to build their seasonal versions to account for those existing high-power skills.)

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8 minutes ago, Othin said:

His legendary version probably won't have Golden Deer Rule, but he could get it as a seasonal or something. We've gotten seasonals with personal non-weapon skills before. Usually they're shared with other versions of the unit, such as Duo Marth, Duo Alm, and Duo Micaiah, and none of those three were passives, but we've gotten Anniversary Caeda as a seasonal unit that does have an exclusive passive. It'd fit especially well if they have Edelgard and Dimitri keep their Rule skills on their inevitable seasonal versions, since that way those three would all match up. (Although it would mean having to build their seasonal versions to account for those existing high-power skills.)

well yeah, maybe it's not exactly realistic, but it's definitely possible nonetheless

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25 minutes ago, Yexin said:

i don't mean to rain on your parade, but that's most likely not going to happen

House Rule skills seem to be a special case for this year's CYL, since it's 100% 3H units

Claude simply lost his chance, but if L!Edelgard is anything to go by, L!Claude will most likely have Fallen Star as his personal B skill (although dragon effectiveness will probably be one of Failnaught's effects)

I just can't agree with going that way. Because like I said, it feels like an incomplete set.

If legendary Claude can't have it, some other version of Claude should then.

Edited by Anacybele
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15 minutes ago, Othin said:

His legendary version probably won't have Golden Deer Rule, but he could get it as a seasonal or something. We've gotten seasonals with personal non-weapon skills before. Usually they're shared with other versions of the unit, such as Duo Marth, Duo Alm, and Duo Micaiah, and none of those three were passives, but we've gotten Anniversary Caeda as a seasonal unit that does have an exclusive passive. It'd fit especially well if they have Edelgard and Dimitri keep their Rule skills on their inevitable seasonal versions, since that way those three would all match up. (Although it would mean having to build their seasonal versions to account for those existing high-power skills.)

I don't think so. Legendary unit personal skills have been shared with later alts of the same unit, such as Light and Dark with Julia, but so far CYL skills have remained on their CYL variants despite later incarnations of the unit being released, such as Brave Hector with Ostian Counter (though thinking about it, he does have another personal skill in Ostian Pulse...)

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It'd feel extremely bizarre to see a non-Brave Claude with Golden Deer Rule though. Honestly, I feel like he just missed his shot.

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6 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

I don't think so. Legendary unit personal skills have been shared with later alts of the same unit, such as Light and Dark with Julia, but so far CYL skills have remained on their CYL variants despite later incarnations of the unit being released, such as Brave Hector with Ostian Counter (though thinking about it, he does have another personal skill in Ostian Pulse...)

It hasn't happened yet, but it could. They set new precedents all the time.

And even if they don't do it for Edelgard or Dimitri, they could still give Golden Deer Rule to a seasonal Claude without duplicating a CYL skill. It'd break symmetry, but they've already become asymmetric with Claude being the only one not to have a CYL skill due to being in second place, and with Edelgard being the only one to have a legendary version released before the brave version.

3 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

It'd feel extremely bizarre to see a non-Brave Claude with Golden Deer Rule though. Honestly, I feel like he just missed his shot.

I think it'd depend on the premise of the alt. They could make it specifically Claude at a time when he's ascended the throne.

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Yeah, I feel like PM1 used Veronica way more than Micaiah this past year lol. As someone who chose Lucina and Hector over Lyn and Veronica respectively, it felt pretty nice to have my free pick of choice finally aligning with PM1's.

Sadly, it did not amount to much lol, but I guess it goes to show that we are at LEAST getting some awesome grail shop units so that, not only is there more variety in his guides, but no one has to worry about not having a neutral IV copy of a 5*. 

With the free CYL2 pick ending, that means he might not be able to use her anymore, if he plans on dumping her the same way he did Lyn last year... has he spoken on this yet? He did hype up Veronica's refine as potentially being using in clearing abyssal content, but who knows.

 

Side note--it always bugs me how the Phoenix in PM1's username is misspelled LOL 😞 

 

Golden Deer rules, huh? I feel like part of the specialness behind that PRF skill is in that fact that Dimitri and Edie earned their #1 spots. While it does seem a bit annoying to not have the "complete set," I also do not think it would be all that fair for Claude to get a CYL-winner-based PRF skill just out of pity or completionism, or to be "Fair" or whatever. Claude had a chance to beat Dimitri, after all.

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I didn't realize the trailer for the next banner was out already. Nice that we get to see everyone's skill a few days before the banner comes out.

Rein skills looks like a good C-Skill but looks like only fliers are going to be able to use them. Unity skills looks like they are going to be tier 4 versions of the bonds skills. Looks like they are only good if you have Distant Counter in your weapon and are on maps where you get debuffed.

All of them look interesting but none screams must have to me and they can all be easily exploited as opponents. Dimitri seems to be strictly enemy phase and can be easily baited out, Lysithea is still an infantry and squishy so she will probably die to brave weapons and anything that is blue, Claude still dies to bows without Iote's Shield and Edelgard still gets slain by armor effective weapons.

In the end I think I am still picking Lysithea as my free pick (and looking at everyone else's pick will probably be the only one to do so). I don't really need another blue enemy phase unit, a self healing colorless flying archer or whatever Edelgard is trying to do. I do however would like another red tome unit since I have only ever built up three of them (Celica, Lilina and SM!Eirika) and I never summoned the other version of her so there's also that. Plus if I ever do get tired of her at least she has nice fodder skills (L'Archael and Tailtiu would like her Lull skill).

I think I will use my tickets on blue and colorless and see if Dimitri or Claude come to me for free.

So it looks like my CYL picks has been CYL1=Lyn, CYL2=Hector, CYL3=Eliwood and CYL4=Lysithea.

Edited by NSSKG151
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Eliwood didn't have any personal skill related to his origin as Lyn and Hector had with Sacae's Blessing and Ostian Counter (don't remember if L!Eliwood has any, but if so, that's because L!Lyn and L!Hector also have their skills). Since B!Eliwood didn't get one even as the last of the three to come out, there's no reason for Claude to have a special treatment.

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